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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

Agreed, electricit battery powered fleets are actually not doable. It's HYDROGEN that's required. Unfortunately the idiots inc. went all in on batteries. ( Musk ) = NOT SUCH A GENIUS.

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UncleWiggly's avatar

Hydrogen is not the answer. Here's a link to an engineering article. Number 6 is a real concern. https://www.powereng.com/library/6-things-to-remember-about-hydrogen-vs-natural-gas

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kertch's avatar

Yes, #6 requires a breakthrough, but the combustion properties are not a factor when you use a hydrogen fuel cell to operate a hybrid vehicle. The problem is this: The energy in fossil fuels is already there when we extract the oil. Hydrogen is not found on earth in its free molecular state, so we have to add energy. This changes hydrogen from an energy source to an energy carrier like electricity. So, what do you use as the energy source, and how efficiently can you make the conversion from bound hydrogen (H2O is one such source) to reduced (molecular) hydrogen, then back to H2O. I collaborated with a research group working on the volumetric storage problem 30 years ago. They were experimenting with metal hydride powders that evolve large volumes of hydrogen when heated. However, the big problem was moisture, which inactivates them and prevents them from being recharged. We could have used the powder as a sufficiently high energy density hydrogen fuel source, but as a one-time use fuel, the economics just weren't there.

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UncleWiggly's avatar

As far as I am concerned, there has never been a valid reason for no using oil. Oil created our modern society and economy. It is the socialists that want to destroy it and ignorant ludites who happily go along with their charade.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

I'm a fan of the Donald too but considering transformation requires a bridge, oil will withstand regardless. It's not pretty but necessary. Problem is, nobody is declaring or has started the bridge project. Wondering which way to build is problematic to society.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

Now you have some street cred'. HFC.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

Yeah, it's a blunder why cars don't run it.

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kertch's avatar

Musk is considering converting to hydrogen fuel cells because the Chinese make batteries and cars cheaper than he can. For long range hauling (trucks), hydrogen may be the way to go. Semi-trucks are the most difficult to electrify because they need long range and requires lots of batteries. The long distances that truckers travel means far more charge-discharge cycles and shorter batter life. So, it becomes a cost issue, not so much a technical issue.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

? ...and you're his PR guy? Or whatever. Provide that information from an actual source. Otherwise meh.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

And we'll hold our breath. Look for Mr. Blue when that happens. Factually speaking, Toyota already does.

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kertch's avatar

The Japanese car industry is less dysfunctional than our own, so maybe they can make HVs competitive with EVs. Still, Elon needs to hedge his bets. Only the big US manufacturers are truly run by morons. I'm not saying Detroit has no technical or design talent, it's the leadership that sucks.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

True, Honda has HFCEV tech too.

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Faux Populi's avatar

Oh Musk IS a genius, he played the game and won billions, what he isn't is honest, big difference.

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UncleWiggly's avatar

Being honest with stupid people doesn't help.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

Honest? Or Evil genius? Fact is that they didn't do their homework and Durecell probably funded him - by proxy govt grants. Reality is much like oil, short term profit, long term problems. The playbook hasn't changed because the "game" IS money and NOT about progress or climate, or whatever BS the EV debacle is about. Common sense technology isn't being applied and I can prove that in so many ways, musk would launch himself to Mars tomorrow to avoid a good old fashioned linchmob.

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Silva's avatar

Er, Musk is the richest guy in the world. I would say he's done pretty well.

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ORION DWORKIN SI/CEBP's avatar

Money - well?

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