I'm reminded of War & Peace, where Count Rostov, close to death himself, is witnessing the death of his sworn enemy, and all he can feel is love and compassion.
It harkens back to a time when war had an element of nobility, where soldiers fought soldiers on the battlefield. Now, since when? Churchill's first air raid on Berlin? War has been the murder of civilians and thus civilization.
Indeed, once you go back into Antiquity the rules of war were of another kind. History is one long litany of bloodshed. We may have more tech, more efficient means of mass murder, but our core issues of greed and power remain the same.
Yes, I would also add that the tech makes it easier and more permissible to watch public "executions" like Renee Good and Pretti, without feeling the need to have to do anything about it - if these same events happened on TV, and people didn't have phones, I think many more would be out on the street.
Well, I disagree about the phones. More people consume media from their phone than from TV. But the real point I think is that public executions were not just permissible, they were entertainment until not that long ago. And in some cultures, even today. And if you turn the focus a bit, you could say that our collective evening's entertainment on Netflix et al is one gory execution after another. So really, nothing much has changed except the delivery.
"...easier and more permissible to watch public "executions" like Renee Good and Pretti, without feeling the need to have to do anything about it."
Not clear why the word *executions* is in quotes, but why should anyone feel the need to do anything about them? The free agents who put themselves in harms way were unlawfully impeding active legitimate law enforcement, which is a dangerous thing to volunteer for. If someone chooses to jump in front of a speeding car at the last second and is killed, what should we do about that?
Yes - kindness and compassion. Also humility as a virtue has been completely forsaken. When asked in a job interview about 'values' and virtues I said humility and being of service, it was blank faces all around and the job went to the person who nominated 'leadership' and [insert cliche]. Keep kicking those heads and don't end up at the bottom of the pile.
Seriously - most people don’t even know how to define humility anymore, since they’ve been too “proud” to learn those simple lessons. Good on you for trying at least Dan (:
Most employers in competitive markets (so not NGOs) want strength and drive over meek humility and being servile. A hybrid answer like "leadership that's confident not arrogant and helping others and the company succeed" might have resulted in a job offer.
Yup, excellent point. We really did see that illustrated starkly this past year.
Charlie Kirk -- Celebration from the Left. No sympathy for his family. Immediate calls for more violence.
Rob Reiner -- Sympathy from those who found his politics despicable. Condemnation of POTUS's highly inappropriate response to his death. No celebration. No calls for further death.
It's funny ... I don't often tie in these political posts with my own (highly speculative/esoteric) Substack musings, but I am reminded of the article I just wrote in which I observed that I do not feel schadenfreude. That particular emotion was given as a kind of off-hand example of a larger point that I was trying to make, but ... Perhaps I need to explore this further.
I can be friends with someone who disagrees with me politically and even hates the president that I love. I can keep those things separate.
But I would find it very hard to remain friends with someone that would celebrate my death just because I disagree with them politically, or am MAGA. If they wanted to hurt me or my family, if they wanted to take over how my child develops and thinks and rob me of that right, if they wanted to persecute us for our faith, I don’t think I can remain friends with someone like that. I can pray for them, but I cannot be around them.
I confess. I will celebrate Fauci’s death. I will shit on his grave. I don’t think I can say that about anyone else - not the Hildabeast or Barry or Ol retard Joe from Scranton… but Fauci? Yeah… I’ll throw a dinner party.
This EXACT question is what alerted me to the fact that some of the folks with whom I previously shared a point-of-view *might* have gone just a tad off the rails.
Disagree. In fact that is downright suicidally stupid. I'm not sure about celebrate but I would be willing to kill for the republic - kill for survival. Which is what this may amount to. Eventually. A very soon eventually.
I'm not talking about random pointless actions like the Kirk assassination (is that the right word?) I am talking about in the sense of having to actually fight in the streets to defend something that must be defended.
The right has a problem. It is too tolerant. I think the left needs to be met with a wall of intolerance. Refusal to go along with anything they push.
Now I don't know how that meshes with "“are you capable of remaining friends with someone with whom you have a significant (or any) political or social disagreement?”"
If you mean agree to disagree and drop it? OK... If you mean shine them on? No... You don't have to be hardcore "political" with everyone.
Celebrating death is warmongering/might-is-right propaganda, most shoot-em-up games and war/spy/gangster movies are part of this propaganda machine, often unwittingly due to the profits available in promoting titillating subjects and being squeamish about porn. The male personality is triggered by violence and this can be monetised.
In a sane society death is a rite of passage if expected from old age and a tragedy if unexpected or engineered.
Sure titillation is not just for males, the triggers are gender differentiated though due I expect to a long evolution that had survival value.
Abortion is that one thing that we should be the most gentle about and more importantly until the sperm donor is judged at least as harshly I believe that the issue is more divisive politics rather than run of the mill killing. There is something more involved with abortion and it should not be trivialised into black or white.
One big insult to women is that those who abort are shamed for spreading their legs but the same shame is not offered the men who do the thrusting.
Another issue that makes things impossible to reduce to binary is intent. If abortion is murder then a miscarriage is at least conspiracy to commit involuntary manslaughter. This standard is not held therefore I do not believe the murder standard can also not be held. Keep in mind that there are an estimated 2 miscarriages for every live birth. Many people do not even realise, a heavy somewhat late period is a typical result. Without trying to figure out the exact statistics it should follow that every parent (mother and father) has statistically conspired to cause the manslaughter of twice as many conceptions. We need to find another way to frame this issue if we ever want to stop having it used as a political lever to swing elections in the direction that the rich, powerful globalists want to swing them at any specific time.
So based on the above and my fervent hope that almost all money used to demonise abortion was instead spent on arranging prophylaxis, adoption and support for new mothers. The inevitable misuse that politics and medical research use it for must not be ignored. So the following is my considered opinion.
I believe that abortion is an already very emotionally charged issue that very few women choose willingly to endure and should be decided on PRIVATELY between the woman and her creator with honest and supportive care from her health care provider with consultation with the sperm donor according to the prognosis of their long term relationship, with possibly opinions from personal spiritual leaders and older family members if desired by the mother.
Sorry, but it is still the killing of an innocent human that has zero ability to defend themselves. Only in rape or incest is there even an excuse that might be reasonable. The murder of a pregnant woman is seen as a double homicide.
I want to live in a world where no woman feels the need to have an abortion but also knows they have a right to do with their own body as they wish. Reducing the need and likelihood of abortion as much as possible is the best way to get there.
Giving rape and incest a pass is akin to the death penalty if we follow your reasoning. The penalty would fall on a KNOWN innocent if they were one of the living.
I would hope that I am never the father of an aborted conception but I am also pragmatic enough to know that laws preventing abortion are already halfway down the Teflon slope of loss of medical freedoms. That world I do not like. Miscarriages are traumatic enough and they are the unintended death of the unborn, you did not say if you thought it should be a manslaughter charge but this also asks if the situation is black and white or if we should use nuance and prophylaxis instead of condemnation and punishment to reduce the numbers.
The first step to gaining rational discourse would be to make any censure of the woman copied to the father, 100% adjusted perhaps for mitigating circumstances like rape or sperm donation. I have not heard many reports of immaculate conception so both parties have to pay the price. This means childcare and alimony for 21 years even if they don't like each other very much.
My wife does Facebook so she sees this alternate universe many colleagues occupy. These people go online and scream that they cannot be friends with anyone who does not pass their purity test. My wife is like, OK then.
Thing is, I see many of these people at church and they seem like reasonable folks. But online they are monsters and they present themselves as awful people all while calling out others as awful people and believing themselves to be good and virtuous.
And all I want is for my government to not be criminally stupid, to moderate its taxing and spending and to promote high standards of civility and education. This is what good American communities used to do. Seems so simple a goal yet so elusive today.
"But online they are monsters and they present themselves as awful people all while calling out others as awful people and believing themselves to be good and virtuous."
Mike Tyson said it best: "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it".
While people argue that social media isn't real life (agree), I argue back that it's a mirror of how people want to see themselves, meaning that they're revealing to you who they are by how they treat you on an online platform where they believe they won't face consequences. Therefore, when they show you who they'd like to be, believe them and stay frosty.
Many do the same in traffic. I'm not a horn blower or a "bird shooter" but I did curse someone's driving the other day, while alone in the car. Then, my phone responded roughly: "I understand your frustration, but I cannot assist you in moving obstacles from the roadway." Started to throw it out the window. 🤣
True, I am ugly at times. But I don't publish my ugliness for others to see! This is what is so bizarre about the radical Left & Right. There is a lack of shamelessness and the persons take pride in behaving like feral animals, only, in the case of the progressive, to go to church and talk about how important it is to love the transgender person who might sit in a pew wearing a pink tutu and bunny slippers. It is bizarro world.
“But I don’t publish my ugliness for others to see!” Right! This was my exact thought. I will reluctantly admit that I may yell at the TV sometimes when I’m alone, but I certainly would never video myself in a slobbering, foaming rage, screaming expletives and calling for harm to anyone who disagrees. And if I ever did make that video, I would NEVER post it online for anyone else to see my mental breakdown!
It’s amazing to me to see the atrocious thoughts that some people are quite happy to post online. They live in such a bubble/echo chamber that they are completely confident that everyone will agree with them, and they’re completely stunned when they get fired, or sometimes even arrested if their rants are threatening enough.
And it’s frightening how many of these people are in the so-called “caring” professions - nurses, teachers, etc. I saw a post yesterday from someone who said she is stuck in a hospital, completely helpless for the time being, and one of the few available channels on the TV is Fox News, but she is afraid to even turn it on, because she’s dependent on the staff for all her care, and after seeing some of the raging comments online from nurses seriously advocating for harming conservatives in their care, she is afraid to let any of them know she leans conservative. My dad was in the hospital for many months until they finally managed to kill him, including during the election in November 2024. He had the TV on Newsmax or sometimes Fox News watching the election coverage. Today, I would advise against that, even here in a red city in a red state.
This is scary that we even have to think this way, but you're not wrong. The medical profession leans WAY left, i.e. unhinged. Nurse Pretti? The other nutbags saying to poison ICE officers, etc.? Yeesh.
So lurking online is acceptable, but voicing an alternative opinion isn’t? Your “shameful” is other people’s views and opinions. Isn’t verbal expression more important at this time in history as even computers are being developed that can think?
For some reason, this reminded me of the story about Jesus writing in the sand.
Imagine if a pastor called people out in his flock. Praising them and their church attendance while on the screen behind him appeared words on social media posts from his audience.
The thing about social media is, you can close down your account, block people, but someone could take a screenshot of the interaction and then simply repost it.
You speak truth. Some folks turn to monsters when they post on social media. Who knows why… I just avoid the “ hot spots” in conversation. If they bring up something I disagree with, I don’t engage. If it keeps up, I’m gone.
Most of my close friends are fairly hard line Democrats. I married one. When we married we were able to discuss things, 2016 changed everything. I came home every night to Chris Cuomo's giant head on our TV and my husband with what Trump did today, Russian Collusion etc. The 2020 election cycle almost ended our marriage. What saved things was at the end of 2020 my mother was diagnosed with glioblastoma and moved in with us in her last year. She was a hard right and lived the bumper sticker on her Honda Odyssey van "I'm Catholic and I Vote". She watched Fox News 24/7 and consequently, as a retired person at home, he was forced to watch much of it too. 2021 was an entirely different year- I came home every night to him saying "I had never heard this.... ". I was a Director in a small hospital and as a rational clinician understood the Covid lie from the beginning-- that softened his support for the Blue Team. By the end of 2021 his first Covid booster resulted in the loss of function in 90% of his pancreas. Within a month he had lost 25#, more than 10% of his bodyweight, unintentionally. That is a HUGE red flag for anyone over 65. His medical team's consensus? It's not Covid. I had to diagnose him and determine the tests to finally diagnose him. He eats a handful of pig enzymes with every meal now. I can proudly say that he is a full fledged moderate. He is left of center and I am right of center. We still have difficulty discussing some things but it won't result in divorce. My friend circle "forgives" me for my political views. We agree not to debate. As far as my husband goes- I think full immersion right ideology dragged him to reality.
Since you're the director, your hospital should be renamed 'The Docs of Hazard.'
... I'll just show myself out now ...
Seriously though, I still harbor a lot of stored-up fury against the 98% of providers who opted to live the lie, or worse, actually believed it despite all their training and experience. I wrote at great length about it: https://jackmccord.substack.com/p/my-covid-story
There are parts 2 and 3 as well, which are even longer. (Hey, 2020 and '21 were long years.)
I'd like to hear how you managed, with everyone around you going mad!
A message many desperately want to say, as well. It encapsulates my lightbulb moment September 2021 when I left the left. The 24 election didn’t have me yet on Trumps side either but the only side talking my issues was there and MAHA. I joined a coalition of many. I will not go back and I am very, very tired of remaining silent. Even in my own house.
It's beautifully written and is an example of how social media can actually be productive. Most corporate media outlets would have zero interest in publishing something like this.
Trying to have a conversation with someone on the modern left is like dashing blindfolded across a minefield. I've never been right, I've never been left, but I do see who is more likely to kill me. The so called authoritarian right is easy to avoid. If you aren't doing really weird shit they don't even notice you. If the Taliban were to take over, all I'd have to do is stop shaving, maybe find a woman who liked to be slapped around. Oddly enough, there seem to be plenty of them on the left.
But if the left takes over, I will fairly quickly find myself on the train to the gulag.
The tragedy is that many on the left will also find themselves pretty quickly on the train to the gulag. Anyone who knows a little history knows what happens to these movements once they actually gain power.
Hey pretty-red, old guy, for some reason your replies get sent to my junk folder and my mail system refuses to let me "not junk" them. Did you get caught telling the truth or something?
Had to look it up. Sounds more like an instruction manual than a novel of fiction. The same woman who scream "Toxic Masculinity" and Patriarchy" at me, probably secretly wish to be enslaved and beaten. Sick bitches.
I think this starts running into some territory of ambiguity, because I think the question should be expanded upon.
"Do I feel morally superior for continuing to discuss ideas/opinions/politics I disagree with?"
The reason is one of nuance. I may have the appearance of "keeping an open mind" but is my mind really open, or am I embracing a veneer of openness when all I am doing is some other version of virtue signalling?
I have to admit a certain amount of moral high ground for not blocking others I disagree with. But I am not also seeking to take down fences my friend or family member erected.
Here is my experience, though. I still on X debate people about masks, and when they post links to opinion pieces from 2023, I will go through some of the material with them and discuss why it is lacking. At the beginning of the pandemic, I felt threatened by studies and peer-reviewed publications, but more often than not, it is the same disappointing state/corporate-funded propaganda to rationalize the policies of Covid.
From their end, if I link anything like the Cochrane report, or a sea of graphs showing where policies were introduced and the lack of impact on case numbers for Covid, I simply get personally attacked, an appeal to experts' logical fallacy, and am summarily blocked.
Yes, I get the same when stating facts. It is mostly a waste of time as we are dealing with people who's mind is not lubricated by facts and the objective weighing of them, but purely emotion-- based on their brainwashed view of the world.
It is simply not possible for a brainwashed human to think beyond what they have been TOLD is reality.
Mass media has been very successful in this regard.
Not until conservatives dent this amazing force for evil will justice prevail.
When talking about these issues, it brings to mind "Mark Twain" which was a riverboat slang term for "safe depth" for boats to travel.
I am on X merely stating what is. They can do with the information whatever they want with it. Regardless of what other's say, there is a bottom to the river, and that bottom is "masks do not work" and "the vaccines were ineffective."
A lot of the medical theater of Covid was precautions for things that do not exist. What they deem false and unsafe, was not unsafe. But, for instance, for a boat taking on water, or already in the process of sinking, even the safest of river bottoms can become dangerous. But did a sinking riverboat sink due to the riverbottom, or did it, in the process of already sinking, merely land on the bottom of the river?
people on Facebook that I just couldn’t have a discussion with. It always turned into ad hominem on their part because of their TDS. That and the endless s*it posting of TDS that every time I saw them I felt compelled to respond and even if I wisely didn’t it drained me a little. I still question my decision to remove these people and think could I not have still tried to interact if for nothing else to further the notion that people that disagree can try to have a dialogue.
I don't blame you at all. My wife has done the same. My lib friends are a little more reasonable, but mainly because I've known them since college ...almost 38 years.
We just agree not to talk politics for the most part. I've only lost one friend, but that's fine it was his choice.
Sometimes the toxicity is just too much… Kind of like a spoonful of manure in the brownies…
Usually when this kind of thing happens, I just say “bless your heart…” And then I move on. You can bring a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink…
I hope you’ll find some grace for a guy like me who reads painful irony in a boundary that protects kids unless they’re not quite born yet. No credible scientists are refuting when biological life begins. The sad truth is, abortion is a choice of convenience in 90%+ of cases which is painfully way too similar to child sacrifice in ancient times. The pro abortion argument rings weaker and weaker as I get older and older. Great essay!
I can't help but wonder that if I(and you, and millions of others) had been educated in the formation of life that informs our PRESENT beliefs and understanding today, back when our minds were formed with morals, would we not have lived our life this way all along instead of having to "grow up". . . before reaching this conclusion?
Listen to the woman who was the subject (the unborn) of Roe v. Wade. She was born because the case took too long. She became a lawyer. She does not support abortion.
LOVE THIS!!!! Thank you... ❤️ This from a former leftie.... union rep, activist, etc..... I think the difference for me that got me back to reason and have a middle ground was definitely the pandemic theatre... I saw and experienced a lot of what you write about and still do.... I was able to come back to logic and reason because I think I had some religion in my past, albeit it was non-existence for decades..... but the lessons were imbedded and were downloaded somewhere in my soul..... I think that is why I was able to overcome the theatrics, division and hate from people... however, I think that most lefties, my husband included, who grew up with nothing, no religion, no sense of purpose, etc...... those are the staunch lefties that you will never be able to convert because victimhood, agnosticism, atheism, etc. is/was their reality.....their religion, if you will... this is just one person's opinion, and I hope I can share it here.
Not to dump a bunch of bible stuff on you, but. . .
This reminds me of the many restatements of it in the New Testament regarding the seed falling on the path, or in good soil, or on rocks. The comparison for you may be related to seed falling on infertile soil that grows for a bit, then dies. Perhaps, for you the seed fell on such soil that in which it drooped for a while, but then was watered and fertilized by a passing bird.
It was Covid and another issue that opened my eyes. I agree about the lack of religion aspect, but wonder about those Christian’s in my FORMER church who live the nonsense of the left. Also, many can barely get out a sentence without some stupid metaphor of their life (or anything, actually) that uses the word “Trump” or ICE these days. I chalk it up to the frogs in the pot of water slowly heating up. Like the author says, they were slowly radicalized (like me) and have not seen what the left has become. I got out and then looked back in. I could see every horrible change very clearly then. Adios.
I have yet to block or unfollow those with opposing political and social thoughts. But that really isn't the question, is it. Can I maintain a friendship with those of opposing political beliefs?
I think I can and have.
During Covid, it was never me blocking friends and unfollowing people. It was always them. I had a pretty strict rule back then, even as far back as 2016. Social media, for me, was a way to reconnect with old friends and family. It wasn't a place to discuss politics. I saw it as a "Thanksgiving Table" with a potpourri of all manner of folk who got together to enjoy a meal.
So part of that was not "starting shit" like posting about politics. And there were a good many years I scrolled past "orange man bad" and other political memes I disagreed with. Although there were things I disagreed with, there was still no call to action or mandated policy attached to it.
And then came masking. Not just a political meme, but a call to action. And so I disagreed and early and often I was blocked and unfollowed, muted, and ridiculed.
I did not use ad hominem attacks. I didn't mock them (I do now). And six years later, I am still blocked and unfollowed by those with whom I disagree. Here is a question, though, is it incumbent upon me to check in with them if they were the ones who blocked me?
Well, it would be very generous and forgiving of you to do so, but I don't think "necessary". Some new testament quotes could be offered regarding . . . shaking the dust from your sandals as you walk out of town when "they" reject the gift being offered.
(a poor paraphrase, for sure, but. . .)
also, I think there must be something out there in the bible where first those who have wronged you need to apologize before forgiveness is forthcoming.
depends on how close you are. I connect with close friends who disagree politically. acquaintences? nah, life's too short. happy to speak w/them but don't have time for much reaching out
Keep in mind too that the sorts of Christians you'd be likely to have warm relations with are people who would keep you in their prayers, that your heart might be opened to the right way as they perceive it. They'd never close off a path for you to draw closer to them in understanding.
The Left are in the "burn all heretics" devolved stage of fanatical devotion.
But I did lose that friend I had to choose to end it because every time we spoke, it was an argument and I do believe it’s because they were so deceived. I hope you’re able to watch the Instagram post. She says it’s so very clearly.
But the friendship had to end it was heartbreaking. It was almost a 30 year friendship.
I have a friend from high school, and he was all in on masking. Found out later he did go to ICU and claims it was from Covid. I think he developed pneumonia after getting the cold/flu, which did happen pre 2020.
He did get the vaccine, but doesn't get boosters. But we don't spend a lot of time discussing Covid or the vaccine. If we did, then maybe it would have to be a decision to visit.
My sister and I rarely talk anymore, more from her end than mine. I think the disintegration of our relationship predated Covid and I own parts of it. But the seminal point was when we exchanged our thoughts on Covid on Memorial Day of 2020 when the world was on the verge of no longer locking down. She was saying she thought COVID was going to be the next Spanish Flu, and I gave her a list of reasons it was not.
Most of the family followed the policies of the fear and panic narrative because they were traveling outside the country in 2021.
It is vital that thinking people abandon the false right/left dichotomy.
The spectrum is instead one of state/organizational control on one end and individual freedom and responsibility on the other. Once you understand this, you will see that a rigid theocracy differs very not at all from a fascist or communist or feudal state.
We are hijacked into believing it is the political GOALS which divide us, when in fact it has nothing to do with the end result but only with the mechanism by which we achieve goals.
The reason a cat can find it possible to remain friends with those ostensibly more on the "right" is not because Republicans are more tolerant than Democrats, but because those who value individual rights, responsibilities and actions also tend to value individuals over the group. The organizational cog is not able to understand and appreciate this nuance.
And I'm going to posit that there is much more to the "leftward" i.e. feminized shift in America than just a political pendulum. People now are being raised from childhood in fractured homes more often than not; this is particularly true of our black population.
When there is no or minimal masculine input into child raising, I think we are creating people who, in adulthood, seek the masculine principle in the state or the group. Single mothers who quite often replace father/husband with Uncle Sugar raise children that are most comfortable when being told what to think and how to react and look for validation from the group rather than any internal justification.
Children raised with a balanced male/female hand are, IMO, far more capable of being self-directed and self sustaining. There is less self-hatred and less hatred of the masculine.
Of course, as a result of 50 years of feminist indoctrination, hardly anyone is willing to admit that single-parent homes (AKA feminine-dominated homes) are less capable and more problematic than traditional homes.
To answer the question; I can maintain a professional relationship with a person I have a large political fissure with. I can tolerate family as well. But that’s as far as she goes. I’m not some hard core conservative either; it’s just that I do not trust those I know to be strongly of leftist thought. I will not allow in my personal space and if they were to somehow get a foothold inside that would be problematic.
If that makes me a baddie well then I am ok with that….fuckem!
Many solid points, but I do wonder if you can really be friends with someone who does not share your beliefs and values. Certainly one can and should be civil and respectful to those with whom we may fundamentally disagree, but close personal friends? How many marriages ultimately end because of this sort of misalignment?
family? I think that happens more often than we think. We just avoid those areas of discussion. Most of my family members (sister and brother, and hubbs siblings) are liberals. We just do not go there. Honestly, I know the times we did tiptoe in to that discussion there is way too much ignorance, I hit a wall that can not be passed so the discussion is over.
Marriages? I have heard of it but I can not figure out how that works.... the 'hitting the wall' thing. Unless there is no area for listening and sharing and learning. - or perhaps just not caring at all.
We have some acquaintances in our neighborhood where the wife is super liberal and re-posts ridiculous things on FB and hubby gets on her site and calls her out- I just wonder if they actually talk at home about things other than "what would you like for dinner tonight?" Boggles the mind....
Oh wow. I can imagine there are a lot of marriages like that.
I am sure there will be a break up at some point. Terrible.
My little brother (68) is completely mental and puts all kinds of stupid stuff on his FB. His wife is pretty much right in line with his skewed angry outbursts.
I think in marriages it would have to do with the amount of time one is married and how much time the other person spent bitching about it.
My husband and I were together for 25 years. The last 5 of those he was sick and generally watching TV of one kind or another at home. His friends steered him into watching Colbert and Stewart, etc after Trump's election. We had always been somewhat liberal, but never really political. In fact, I had kept up on politics more than him over the years and never discussed them much because he wasn't really interested.
Suddenly, he wanted to discuss this stuff all the time, wanted me to watch these shows (which I thought even then were propaganda). I just took a 'that's nice dear' attitude to it and he soon learned to take those discussions to his friends and leave me out of it. I don't know where we would be if he had lived. He was already getting dropped by his 'friends' as part of the purity cycle (being too white, male and straight to be cool or correct in any difference of opinion and was cancelled by a close friend of over 20 years during this time) so I'd like to think that he might have come around.
No matter what, I still loved him and it would have taken the proverbial outright support of child sexual abuse or something equally heinous to have made me leave him.
However, I'm not sure if a healthy relationship could be formed in the first place in situations with such differences.
A right-leaning friend of mine was recently excluded from a hobby-sharing trip with his so-called friends (all left-"leaning"), simply due to the fact that he leaned right. No he's not an alt-right skull-wearer constantly shouting MAGA slogans. Just a guy with common sense who lives in an region swamped by deep blue nonsense. These are "friends" he sees daily and has shared activities with for years or decades. But allowing him to join them on a fun boys trip was a bridge too far, and they told him so. This is something that absolutely never would have crossed our right-leaning minds in reverse. "Let's uninvite those best friends from our trip cuz they are such lefties." So here we have a case where they could be "friends" with an apostate- up to a certain point that is. Just another example of what living in a blue swamp echo-chamber will do to the perspective of the believers.
yes. "I'm not gonna roll up my sleeve. I have doubts." FASCIST! NAZI! How dare you maintain sovereignty over your own body?? Instantly I became an apostate. OK then...
I refuse to discuss politics or religion with anyone with whom I have a personal or business relationship. My need to be "right" comes at too high a price if it means the loss of friends & family,or business.
As EGM points out,there are limits to that tolerance...
I'd rather be friends than be right, and there are so few other people that share my tastes in music, books, movies, hobbies, etc that it just is not worth narrowing the pool further.
I don't understand when it became obligatory to make political quips all the time in response to random stimuli.
I seem to remember a time when most people didn't.
Now, I constantly hear these non sequitur political quips all the time and its really annoying because I don't want to be constantly reminded of how stupid so many people are.
You can work hard to preserve friendships with diverging views, but unless you see them in person regularly, good luck with that.
The high school/college friends who have known me in real life for decades (and didn’t purge themselves over my Covid views) are now removing themselves from my online orbit over Trump/ICE. I have tried to be respectful and rational, only to be met with emotional vomit that I have somehow turned into a Nazi and deserve to be shot. This is after I deserved to be gassed for refusing THE shot. It’s all so confusing.
Anyway, there is no reasoning with these people and if they block me because they can’t handle being asked to clarify their positions (you are upset about people being killed but you think it would be okay if I was killed?), there is really nothing I can do about it, short of agreeing with whichever way the wind is blowing today, which I refuse to do. Total waste of good memories and good technology that kept these old relationships alive much longer than normally feasible for people.
Same here. I was involved in theater in my younger life, so you can imagine the friends that remain from high school and college era are ... Few to none!
My husband was an actor, I am an artist/crafter that used to hang out in the art scene periphery, we both used to do historical re-creation. I guess it's true about how there are some rivers you can never cross again as they have flowed past you without stopping...
Me too. The late summer of the jabs. I was at low ebb and frightened. I didn’t recognize most of the people around me because I knew they were deep into the narrative and seeing the hate spewing from everywhere toward we who refused them. Substack saved me.
It’s harsh how the scythe keeps slashing with each new issue. Made new friends with dissidents over Covid, along comes Ukraine, Palestine, Trump and now ICE. Of course we don’t have to agree on everything, but my god people would really prefer that to be the case.
I cling to substack, at least these few blogs, to reassure me I am not entirely alone. But it saddens me that IRL, the cuts get closer. I can only thank the universe that my son and best friend seem to be on the same ride as me and it gives me hope. But when people start seeing n*z!s everywhere while at the same time defending those who exhibit actual concerning behaviors, I know I can't hang.
Indeed. I’ve always felt social media is a double edged sword. It is not simply all bad. There was real value for me since I moved to another country. Without social media I would not have been exposed to new information from people I respect that made me change my mind on things in the same way the letter writer did. I would like that to happen with others, especially old friends who should know better than to accuse me of being a racist Nazi. Alas. It’s not always up to me.
It recently occurred to me that one way to tell if "we are the baddies" is to ask/answer this general question:
Would I/we celebrate the death of someone whom I/we despise on the "other side"?
That question has recently been answered by some on the other side. I don't think it's a good look for "them," nor would it be for "us."
I'm reminded of War & Peace, where Count Rostov, close to death himself, is witnessing the death of his sworn enemy, and all he can feel is love and compassion.
It harkens back to a time when war had an element of nobility, where soldiers fought soldiers on the battlefield. Now, since when? Churchill's first air raid on Berlin? War has been the murder of civilians and thus civilization.
Um, Churchill attack on Berlin was AFTER Germany’s attack on London.
Furthermore, the best evidence says RAF attacked strategic targets in Berlin and it wasn’t a civilian attack.
Germany was already planning to attack London citizens to break morale.
All worthy of deeper research.
I'll tell the Condottieri about that nobility in war thing. They'll have a good laugh, I'm sure.
We all need a good laugh.
Don't know who the Condottieri folks are but guessing they were competitive with Genghis Khan and the Tarters, oh and the Viet Cong!
The Athenians murdered a lot of civilians, a long, long time ago. General Sherman pointed out, not so long ago, the impossibility of refining war.
Indeed, once you go back into Antiquity the rules of war were of another kind. History is one long litany of bloodshed. We may have more tech, more efficient means of mass murder, but our core issues of greed and power remain the same.
Yes, I would also add that the tech makes it easier and more permissible to watch public "executions" like Renee Good and Pretti, without feeling the need to have to do anything about it - if these same events happened on TV, and people didn't have phones, I think many more would be out on the street.
Well, I disagree about the phones. More people consume media from their phone than from TV. But the real point I think is that public executions were not just permissible, they were entertainment until not that long ago. And in some cultures, even today. And if you turn the focus a bit, you could say that our collective evening's entertainment on Netflix et al is one gory execution after another. So really, nothing much has changed except the delivery.
"...easier and more permissible to watch public "executions" like Renee Good and Pretti, without feeling the need to have to do anything about it."
Not clear why the word *executions* is in quotes, but why should anyone feel the need to do anything about them? The free agents who put themselves in harms way were unlawfully impeding active legitimate law enforcement, which is a dangerous thing to volunteer for. If someone chooses to jump in front of a speeding car at the last second and is killed, what should we do about that?
Yes - kindness and compassion. Also humility as a virtue has been completely forsaken. When asked in a job interview about 'values' and virtues I said humility and being of service, it was blank faces all around and the job went to the person who nominated 'leadership' and [insert cliche]. Keep kicking those heads and don't end up at the bottom of the pile.
Seriously - most people don’t even know how to define humility anymore, since they’ve been too “proud” to learn those simple lessons. Good on you for trying at least Dan (:
Most employers in competitive markets (so not NGOs) want strength and drive over meek humility and being servile. A hybrid answer like "leadership that's confident not arrogant and helping others and the company succeed" might have resulted in a job offer.
That was a fiction novel
Yes, but still a treatise on human nature. Tolstoy saw the war first hand.
The most I have dared to wish for on those I disagree with is that somehow their computer/phone/devices no longer work.
Also, electrocution is an option. They may deserve it
Yup, excellent point. We really did see that illustrated starkly this past year.
Charlie Kirk -- Celebration from the Left. No sympathy for his family. Immediate calls for more violence.
Rob Reiner -- Sympathy from those who found his politics despicable. Condemnation of POTUS's highly inappropriate response to his death. No celebration. No calls for further death.
It's funny ... I don't often tie in these political posts with my own (highly speculative/esoteric) Substack musings, but I am reminded of the article I just wrote in which I observed that I do not feel schadenfreude. That particular emotion was given as a kind of off-hand example of a larger point that I was trying to make, but ... Perhaps I need to explore this further.
Might be onto something.
I can’t spell scheuden…. You know what I mean
I can get close enough for spell check, ha! Probably because I am genetically German. ;)
my spell check is based on southern redneck. I have special spellcheck
Redneck spellcheck
This needs to be a thing
LOL! No doubt
Perfect example Skenny.
I can be friends with someone who disagrees with me politically and even hates the president that I love. I can keep those things separate.
But I would find it very hard to remain friends with someone that would celebrate my death just because I disagree with them politically, or am MAGA. If they wanted to hurt me or my family, if they wanted to take over how my child develops and thinks and rob me of that right, if they wanted to persecute us for our faith, I don’t think I can remain friends with someone like that. I can pray for them, but I cannot be around them.
Great litmus test!
I confess. I will celebrate Fauci’s death. I will shit on his grave. I don’t think I can say that about anyone else - not the Hildabeast or Barry or Ol retard Joe from Scranton… but Fauci? Yeah… I’ll throw a dinner party.
You're good! I was only applying that standard to homo sapiens.
That would appear true if you took my tongue-in-cheek jab at Fauci literally, and it could be proven that he is a homo sapien.
Sign me up for Mayorkas.
Oh yeah. That little human dildo… good addition
This EXACT question is what alerted me to the fact that some of the folks with whom I previously shared a point-of-view *might* have gone just a tad off the rails.
Disagree. In fact that is downright suicidally stupid. I'm not sure about celebrate but I would be willing to kill for the republic - kill for survival. Which is what this may amount to. Eventually. A very soon eventually.
I'm not talking about random pointless actions like the Kirk assassination (is that the right word?) I am talking about in the sense of having to actually fight in the streets to defend something that must be defended.
The right has a problem. It is too tolerant. I think the left needs to be met with a wall of intolerance. Refusal to go along with anything they push.
Now I don't know how that meshes with "“are you capable of remaining friends with someone with whom you have a significant (or any) political or social disagreement?”"
If you mean agree to disagree and drop it? OK... If you mean shine them on? No... You don't have to be hardcore "political" with everyone.
But it does mean not helping them.
We are looking at Civil war when it comes to socialism. Tolerance for socialism is suicidal.
Celebrating death is warmongering/might-is-right propaganda, most shoot-em-up games and war/spy/gangster movies are part of this propaganda machine, often unwittingly due to the profits available in promoting titillating subjects and being squeamish about porn. The male personality is triggered by violence and this can be monetised.
In a sane society death is a rite of passage if expected from old age and a tragedy if unexpected or engineered.
Nihilism is not a male “trait.” There are plenty of females who abort which in my book is killing.
Sure titillation is not just for males, the triggers are gender differentiated though due I expect to a long evolution that had survival value.
Abortion is that one thing that we should be the most gentle about and more importantly until the sperm donor is judged at least as harshly I believe that the issue is more divisive politics rather than run of the mill killing. There is something more involved with abortion and it should not be trivialised into black or white.
One big insult to women is that those who abort are shamed for spreading their legs but the same shame is not offered the men who do the thrusting.
Another issue that makes things impossible to reduce to binary is intent. If abortion is murder then a miscarriage is at least conspiracy to commit involuntary manslaughter. This standard is not held therefore I do not believe the murder standard can also not be held. Keep in mind that there are an estimated 2 miscarriages for every live birth. Many people do not even realise, a heavy somewhat late period is a typical result. Without trying to figure out the exact statistics it should follow that every parent (mother and father) has statistically conspired to cause the manslaughter of twice as many conceptions. We need to find another way to frame this issue if we ever want to stop having it used as a political lever to swing elections in the direction that the rich, powerful globalists want to swing them at any specific time.
So based on the above and my fervent hope that almost all money used to demonise abortion was instead spent on arranging prophylaxis, adoption and support for new mothers. The inevitable misuse that politics and medical research use it for must not be ignored. So the following is my considered opinion.
I believe that abortion is an already very emotionally charged issue that very few women choose willingly to endure and should be decided on PRIVATELY between the woman and her creator with honest and supportive care from her health care provider with consultation with the sperm donor according to the prognosis of their long term relationship, with possibly opinions from personal spiritual leaders and older family members if desired by the mother.
Sorry, but it is still the killing of an innocent human that has zero ability to defend themselves. Only in rape or incest is there even an excuse that might be reasonable. The murder of a pregnant woman is seen as a double homicide.
I want to live in a world where no woman feels the need to have an abortion but also knows they have a right to do with their own body as they wish. Reducing the need and likelihood of abortion as much as possible is the best way to get there.
Giving rape and incest a pass is akin to the death penalty if we follow your reasoning. The penalty would fall on a KNOWN innocent if they were one of the living.
I would hope that I am never the father of an aborted conception but I am also pragmatic enough to know that laws preventing abortion are already halfway down the Teflon slope of loss of medical freedoms. That world I do not like. Miscarriages are traumatic enough and they are the unintended death of the unborn, you did not say if you thought it should be a manslaughter charge but this also asks if the situation is black and white or if we should use nuance and prophylaxis instead of condemnation and punishment to reduce the numbers.
The first step to gaining rational discourse would be to make any censure of the woman copied to the father, 100% adjusted perhaps for mitigating circumstances like rape or sperm donation. I have not heard many reports of immaculate conception so both parties have to pay the price. This means childcare and alimony for 21 years even if they don't like each other very much.
My wife does Facebook so she sees this alternate universe many colleagues occupy. These people go online and scream that they cannot be friends with anyone who does not pass their purity test. My wife is like, OK then.
Thing is, I see many of these people at church and they seem like reasonable folks. But online they are monsters and they present themselves as awful people all while calling out others as awful people and believing themselves to be good and virtuous.
And all I want is for my government to not be criminally stupid, to moderate its taxing and spending and to promote high standards of civility and education. This is what good American communities used to do. Seems so simple a goal yet so elusive today.
"But online they are monsters and they present themselves as awful people all while calling out others as awful people and believing themselves to be good and virtuous."
Mike Tyson said it best: "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it".
While people argue that social media isn't real life (agree), I argue back that it's a mirror of how people want to see themselves, meaning that they're revealing to you who they are by how they treat you on an online platform where they believe they won't face consequences. Therefore, when they show you who they'd like to be, believe them and stay frosty.
Excellent…. Thanks
Re: folks becoming "monsters" online....
Many do the same in traffic. I'm not a horn blower or a "bird shooter" but I did curse someone's driving the other day, while alone in the car. Then, my phone responded roughly: "I understand your frustration, but I cannot assist you in moving obstacles from the roadway." Started to throw it out the window. 🤣
True, I am ugly at times. But I don't publish my ugliness for others to see! This is what is so bizarre about the radical Left & Right. There is a lack of shamelessness and the persons take pride in behaving like feral animals, only, in the case of the progressive, to go to church and talk about how important it is to love the transgender person who might sit in a pew wearing a pink tutu and bunny slippers. It is bizarro world.
“But I don’t publish my ugliness for others to see!” Right! This was my exact thought. I will reluctantly admit that I may yell at the TV sometimes when I’m alone, but I certainly would never video myself in a slobbering, foaming rage, screaming expletives and calling for harm to anyone who disagrees. And if I ever did make that video, I would NEVER post it online for anyone else to see my mental breakdown!
It’s amazing to me to see the atrocious thoughts that some people are quite happy to post online. They live in such a bubble/echo chamber that they are completely confident that everyone will agree with them, and they’re completely stunned when they get fired, or sometimes even arrested if their rants are threatening enough.
And it’s frightening how many of these people are in the so-called “caring” professions - nurses, teachers, etc. I saw a post yesterday from someone who said she is stuck in a hospital, completely helpless for the time being, and one of the few available channels on the TV is Fox News, but she is afraid to even turn it on, because she’s dependent on the staff for all her care, and after seeing some of the raging comments online from nurses seriously advocating for harming conservatives in their care, she is afraid to let any of them know she leans conservative. My dad was in the hospital for many months until they finally managed to kill him, including during the election in November 2024. He had the TV on Newsmax or sometimes Fox News watching the election coverage. Today, I would advise against that, even here in a red city in a red state.
This is scary that we even have to think this way, but you're not wrong. The medical profession leans WAY left, i.e. unhinged. Nurse Pretti? The other nutbags saying to poison ICE officers, etc.? Yeesh.
So lurking online is acceptable, but voicing an alternative opinion isn’t? Your “shameful” is other people’s views and opinions. Isn’t verbal expression more important at this time in history as even computers are being developed that can think?
For some reason, this reminded me of the story about Jesus writing in the sand.
Imagine if a pastor called people out in his flock. Praising them and their church attendance while on the screen behind him appeared words on social media posts from his audience.
The thing about social media is, you can close down your account, block people, but someone could take a screenshot of the interaction and then simply repost it.
Interesting Bible class concept… 🤔 thank you, I will definitely be putting this in my “file cabinet” for a future Bible lesson…
That is called accountability! We need more of it!
You speak truth. Some folks turn to monsters when they post on social media. Who knows why… I just avoid the “ hot spots” in conversation. If they bring up something I disagree with, I don’t engage. If it keeps up, I’m gone.
Most of my close friends are fairly hard line Democrats. I married one. When we married we were able to discuss things, 2016 changed everything. I came home every night to Chris Cuomo's giant head on our TV and my husband with what Trump did today, Russian Collusion etc. The 2020 election cycle almost ended our marriage. What saved things was at the end of 2020 my mother was diagnosed with glioblastoma and moved in with us in her last year. She was a hard right and lived the bumper sticker on her Honda Odyssey van "I'm Catholic and I Vote". She watched Fox News 24/7 and consequently, as a retired person at home, he was forced to watch much of it too. 2021 was an entirely different year- I came home every night to him saying "I had never heard this.... ". I was a Director in a small hospital and as a rational clinician understood the Covid lie from the beginning-- that softened his support for the Blue Team. By the end of 2021 his first Covid booster resulted in the loss of function in 90% of his pancreas. Within a month he had lost 25#, more than 10% of his bodyweight, unintentionally. That is a HUGE red flag for anyone over 65. His medical team's consensus? It's not Covid. I had to diagnose him and determine the tests to finally diagnose him. He eats a handful of pig enzymes with every meal now. I can proudly say that he is a full fledged moderate. He is left of center and I am right of center. We still have difficulty discussing some things but it won't result in divorce. My friend circle "forgives" me for my political views. We agree not to debate. As far as my husband goes- I think full immersion right ideology dragged him to reality.
Since you're the director, your hospital should be renamed 'The Docs of Hazard.'
... I'll just show myself out now ...
Seriously though, I still harbor a lot of stored-up fury against the 98% of providers who opted to live the lie, or worse, actually believed it despite all their training and experience. I wrote at great length about it: https://jackmccord.substack.com/p/my-covid-story
There are parts 2 and 3 as well, which are even longer. (Hey, 2020 and '21 were long years.)
I'd like to hear how you managed, with everyone around you going mad!
Wow. You are a stronger person than me..
I see that Farrah's epistle has had 1.3M views as of today. It seems this is a message that many wish to hear.
It's not the views that are dispositive. It'll be the comments, IMO.
1.2M of those views could be from the Right. But the hate will come from the 0.1M comments from the Left.
A message many desperately want to say, as well. It encapsulates my lightbulb moment September 2021 when I left the left. The 24 election didn’t have me yet on Trumps side either but the only side talking my issues was there and MAHA. I joined a coalition of many. I will not go back and I am very, very tired of remaining silent. Even in my own house.
It's beautifully written and is an example of how social media can actually be productive. Most corporate media outlets would have zero interest in publishing something like this.
Trying to have a conversation with someone on the modern left is like dashing blindfolded across a minefield. I've never been right, I've never been left, but I do see who is more likely to kill me. The so called authoritarian right is easy to avoid. If you aren't doing really weird shit they don't even notice you. If the Taliban were to take over, all I'd have to do is stop shaving, maybe find a woman who liked to be slapped around. Oddly enough, there seem to be plenty of them on the left.
But if the left takes over, I will fairly quickly find myself on the train to the gulag.
The tragedy is that many on the left will also find themselves pretty quickly on the train to the gulag. Anyone who knows a little history knows what happens to these movements once they actually gain power.
If these well meaning lefties knew any History maybe they wouldn't be such willing dupes. They always have to learn the hard way.
The term useful idiot comes to mind.
What a great handle…
I was laughing out loud on this one!
Ha! very good.
Hey pretty-red, old guy, for some reason your replies get sent to my junk folder and my mail system refuses to let me "not junk" them. Did you get caught telling the truth or something?
LOL! reminded me of "Submission" by Houellebecq
Had to look it up. Sounds more like an instruction manual than a novel of fiction. The same woman who scream "Toxic Masculinity" and Patriarchy" at me, probably secretly wish to be enslaved and beaten. Sick bitches.
he's a visionary writer (but not everyone's cup of tea). his take on sharia infiltration in the EU, though fictional, seems to be prescient.
LMAO
Thanks. I posted this anonymously to Facebook.
Perhaps there's another singular question you could ask (albeit after taking truth serum):
Do I feel morally superior if I refuse to discuss ideas/opinions/politics (or end relationships)I disagree with?
After all, they are their feelings.
I think this starts running into some territory of ambiguity, because I think the question should be expanded upon.
"Do I feel morally superior for continuing to discuss ideas/opinions/politics I disagree with?"
The reason is one of nuance. I may have the appearance of "keeping an open mind" but is my mind really open, or am I embracing a veneer of openness when all I am doing is some other version of virtue signalling?
I have to admit a certain amount of moral high ground for not blocking others I disagree with. But I am not also seeking to take down fences my friend or family member erected.
Here is my experience, though. I still on X debate people about masks, and when they post links to opinion pieces from 2023, I will go through some of the material with them and discuss why it is lacking. At the beginning of the pandemic, I felt threatened by studies and peer-reviewed publications, but more often than not, it is the same disappointing state/corporate-funded propaganda to rationalize the policies of Covid.
From their end, if I link anything like the Cochrane report, or a sea of graphs showing where policies were introduced and the lack of impact on case numbers for Covid, I simply get personally attacked, an appeal to experts' logical fallacy, and am summarily blocked.
Yes, I get the same when stating facts. It is mostly a waste of time as we are dealing with people who's mind is not lubricated by facts and the objective weighing of them, but purely emotion-- based on their brainwashed view of the world.
It is simply not possible for a brainwashed human to think beyond what they have been TOLD is reality.
Mass media has been very successful in this regard.
Not until conservatives dent this amazing force for evil will justice prevail.
When talking about these issues, it brings to mind "Mark Twain" which was a riverboat slang term for "safe depth" for boats to travel.
I am on X merely stating what is. They can do with the information whatever they want with it. Regardless of what other's say, there is a bottom to the river, and that bottom is "masks do not work" and "the vaccines were ineffective."
A lot of the medical theater of Covid was precautions for things that do not exist. What they deem false and unsafe, was not unsafe. But, for instance, for a boat taking on water, or already in the process of sinking, even the safest of river bottoms can become dangerous. But did a sinking riverboat sink due to the riverbottom, or did it, in the process of already sinking, merely land on the bottom of the river?
super. are you also a john hartford fan? excellent analogy
I am not, but I may become one.
he became a riverboat captain IRL. great musician
Yup. My circle doesn’t want to hear any of it.
Then, count your blessings.
Ryan, from one warrior to another, you and I feel morally superior when we do engage, thereby demonstrating our "superiority." 😁😁😁😁
I told someone recently, "I would not have argued if I did not know that I was right."
My wife says I should have been a lawyer, that I'm never wrong. 😄
most lawyers would be happy to argue either side of an argument and believe the truth is whatever they can convince others to believe.
Not unlike the trend among the profession, and in politics, to figure ways around the Constitution, instead of how to adhere to it.
Except being a lawyer in and of itself is considered "wrong."
Not by lawyers.
Alcoholism runs rampant in that group. Not sure they have a clean conscious.
hmmmmm.
I admire you, already.
I have dropped several
people on Facebook that I just couldn’t have a discussion with. It always turned into ad hominem on their part because of their TDS. That and the endless s*it posting of TDS that every time I saw them I felt compelled to respond and even if I wisely didn’t it drained me a little. I still question my decision to remove these people and think could I not have still tried to interact if for nothing else to further the notion that people that disagree can try to have a dialogue.
I don't blame you at all. My wife has done the same. My lib friends are a little more reasonable, but mainly because I've known them since college ...almost 38 years.
We just agree not to talk politics for the most part. I've only lost one friend, but that's fine it was his choice.
Sometimes the toxicity is just too much… Kind of like a spoonful of manure in the brownies…
Usually when this kind of thing happens, I just say “bless your heart…” And then I move on. You can bring a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink…
Find a better class of friends. It’s demoralizing to debate with imbeciles
I hope you’ll find some grace for a guy like me who reads painful irony in a boundary that protects kids unless they’re not quite born yet. No credible scientists are refuting when biological life begins. The sad truth is, abortion is a choice of convenience in 90%+ of cases which is painfully way too similar to child sacrifice in ancient times. The pro abortion argument rings weaker and weaker as I get older and older. Great essay!
I can't help but wonder that if I(and you, and millions of others) had been educated in the formation of life that informs our PRESENT beliefs and understanding today, back when our minds were formed with morals, would we not have lived our life this way all along instead of having to "grow up". . . before reaching this conclusion?
We're probably old enough to remember when wondering wasn't frowned upon. :)
Listen to the woman who was the subject (the unborn) of Roe v. Wade. She was born because the case took too long. She became a lawyer. She does not support abortion.
Agree…
LOVE THIS!!!! Thank you... ❤️ This from a former leftie.... union rep, activist, etc..... I think the difference for me that got me back to reason and have a middle ground was definitely the pandemic theatre... I saw and experienced a lot of what you write about and still do.... I was able to come back to logic and reason because I think I had some religion in my past, albeit it was non-existence for decades..... but the lessons were imbedded and were downloaded somewhere in my soul..... I think that is why I was able to overcome the theatrics, division and hate from people... however, I think that most lefties, my husband included, who grew up with nothing, no religion, no sense of purpose, etc...... those are the staunch lefties that you will never be able to convert because victimhood, agnosticism, atheism, etc. is/was their reality.....their religion, if you will... this is just one person's opinion, and I hope I can share it here.
man o' man.
I think you really hit the nail Stella.
Not to dump a bunch of bible stuff on you, but. . .
This reminds me of the many restatements of it in the New Testament regarding the seed falling on the path, or in good soil, or on rocks. The comparison for you may be related to seed falling on infertile soil that grows for a bit, then dies. Perhaps, for you the seed fell on such soil that in which it drooped for a while, but then was watered and fertilized by a passing bird.
I pray the flocks stick around!
“logic and reason” 💪
Right on, but the overuse of the ellipsis breaks up the flow of text and makes it more difficult to read.
Interesting..... I find that the breaks make the reading easier.
It was Covid and another issue that opened my eyes. I agree about the lack of religion aspect, but wonder about those Christian’s in my FORMER church who live the nonsense of the left. Also, many can barely get out a sentence without some stupid metaphor of their life (or anything, actually) that uses the word “Trump” or ICE these days. I chalk it up to the frogs in the pot of water slowly heating up. Like the author says, they were slowly radicalized (like me) and have not seen what the left has become. I got out and then looked back in. I could see every horrible change very clearly then. Adios.
Kind of like being the designated driver, watching everyone else act stupid as they become inebriated.
Excellent thoughts, I feel. Spot on. Thanks
100% a kind of religious fervor but no religion. not healthy
I have yet to block or unfollow those with opposing political and social thoughts. But that really isn't the question, is it. Can I maintain a friendship with those of opposing political beliefs?
I think I can and have.
During Covid, it was never me blocking friends and unfollowing people. It was always them. I had a pretty strict rule back then, even as far back as 2016. Social media, for me, was a way to reconnect with old friends and family. It wasn't a place to discuss politics. I saw it as a "Thanksgiving Table" with a potpourri of all manner of folk who got together to enjoy a meal.
So part of that was not "starting shit" like posting about politics. And there were a good many years I scrolled past "orange man bad" and other political memes I disagreed with. Although there were things I disagreed with, there was still no call to action or mandated policy attached to it.
And then came masking. Not just a political meme, but a call to action. And so I disagreed and early and often I was blocked and unfollowed, muted, and ridiculed.
I did not use ad hominem attacks. I didn't mock them (I do now). And six years later, I am still blocked and unfollowed by those with whom I disagree. Here is a question, though, is it incumbent upon me to check in with them if they were the ones who blocked me?
Well, it would be very generous and forgiving of you to do so, but I don't think "necessary". Some new testament quotes could be offered regarding . . . shaking the dust from your sandals as you walk out of town when "they" reject the gift being offered.
(a poor paraphrase, for sure, but. . .)
also, I think there must be something out there in the bible where first those who have wronged you need to apologize before forgiveness is forthcoming.
depends on how close you are. I connect with close friends who disagree politically. acquaintences? nah, life's too short. happy to speak w/them but don't have time for much reaching out
You are much better off with those bitter miscreants out of your mainstream, I would guess.
Keep in mind too that the sorts of Christians you'd be likely to have warm relations with are people who would keep you in their prayers, that your heart might be opened to the right way as they perceive it. They'd never close off a path for you to draw closer to them in understanding.
The Left are in the "burn all heretics" devolved stage of fanatical devotion.
I chose to end friendships over the vaccine issue.
The convo would have been a never ending argument, and when you have a friend that won’t respect that boundary it has to be over.
It also ended a lot of potential intimate relationships for my own health’s and safety’s sake - the shedding is real.
The consequences are real.
It’s very difficult to be friends with someone who continues to buy into lies - what on earth would the conversations be like???
Am I wrong???
I found this post I will put here.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DURoSgEDbQL/?igsh=bnd0YjhqbXdzOW1s
But I did lose that friend I had to choose to end it because every time we spoke, it was an argument and I do believe it’s because they were so deceived. I hope you’re able to watch the Instagram post. She says it’s so very clearly.
But the friendship had to end it was heartbreaking. It was almost a 30 year friendship.
I haven't.
I have a friend from high school, and he was all in on masking. Found out later he did go to ICU and claims it was from Covid. I think he developed pneumonia after getting the cold/flu, which did happen pre 2020.
He did get the vaccine, but doesn't get boosters. But we don't spend a lot of time discussing Covid or the vaccine. If we did, then maybe it would have to be a decision to visit.
My sister and I rarely talk anymore, more from her end than mine. I think the disintegration of our relationship predated Covid and I own parts of it. But the seminal point was when we exchanged our thoughts on Covid on Memorial Day of 2020 when the world was on the verge of no longer locking down. She was saying she thought COVID was going to be the next Spanish Flu, and I gave her a list of reasons it was not.
Most of the family followed the policies of the fear and panic narrative because they were traveling outside the country in 2021.
Same with my sister. I miss her but can’t be alone with her anymore for my own health and well-being. I have to initiate contact.
Sometimes I had to interact with folks like you speak of. Often, I would go “ hmmm” and walk away
If you are wrong, then I'm maybe even more so.
You are right
Thank you
It is vital that thinking people abandon the false right/left dichotomy.
The spectrum is instead one of state/organizational control on one end and individual freedom and responsibility on the other. Once you understand this, you will see that a rigid theocracy differs very not at all from a fascist or communist or feudal state.
We are hijacked into believing it is the political GOALS which divide us, when in fact it has nothing to do with the end result but only with the mechanism by which we achieve goals.
The reason a cat can find it possible to remain friends with those ostensibly more on the "right" is not because Republicans are more tolerant than Democrats, but because those who value individual rights, responsibilities and actions also tend to value individuals over the group. The organizational cog is not able to understand and appreciate this nuance.
And I'm going to posit that there is much more to the "leftward" i.e. feminized shift in America than just a political pendulum. People now are being raised from childhood in fractured homes more often than not; this is particularly true of our black population.
When there is no or minimal masculine input into child raising, I think we are creating people who, in adulthood, seek the masculine principle in the state or the group. Single mothers who quite often replace father/husband with Uncle Sugar raise children that are most comfortable when being told what to think and how to react and look for validation from the group rather than any internal justification.
Children raised with a balanced male/female hand are, IMO, far more capable of being self-directed and self sustaining. There is less self-hatred and less hatred of the masculine.
Of course, as a result of 50 years of feminist indoctrination, hardly anyone is willing to admit that single-parent homes (AKA feminine-dominated homes) are less capable and more problematic than traditional homes.
In fact, I can hear the screams now...
Google: Overcoming the Feminization of Culture- Helen Andrews. She gets it.
To answer the question; I can maintain a professional relationship with a person I have a large political fissure with. I can tolerate family as well. But that’s as far as she goes. I’m not some hard core conservative either; it’s just that I do not trust those I know to be strongly of leftist thought. I will not allow in my personal space and if they were to somehow get a foothold inside that would be problematic.
If that makes me a baddie well then I am ok with that….fuckem!
I think gato addressed that when he talked about being friends with those who are into child slavery and the abuse of women.
yep, Jimmy. We all have our "line".
Well, except Obama.
I like your style…
Many solid points, but I do wonder if you can really be friends with someone who does not share your beliefs and values. Certainly one can and should be civil and respectful to those with whom we may fundamentally disagree, but close personal friends? How many marriages ultimately end because of this sort of misalignment?
family? I think that happens more often than we think. We just avoid those areas of discussion. Most of my family members (sister and brother, and hubbs siblings) are liberals. We just do not go there. Honestly, I know the times we did tiptoe in to that discussion there is way too much ignorance, I hit a wall that can not be passed so the discussion is over.
Marriages? I have heard of it but I can not figure out how that works.... the 'hitting the wall' thing. Unless there is no area for listening and sharing and learning. - or perhaps just not caring at all.
Many people are blissfully stupid.
We have some acquaintances in our neighborhood where the wife is super liberal and re-posts ridiculous things on FB and hubby gets on her site and calls her out- I just wonder if they actually talk at home about things other than "what would you like for dinner tonight?" Boggles the mind....
Oh wow. I can imagine there are a lot of marriages like that.
I am sure there will be a break up at some point. Terrible.
My little brother (68) is completely mental and puts all kinds of stupid stuff on his FB. His wife is pretty much right in line with his skewed angry outbursts.
I think in marriages it would have to do with the amount of time one is married and how much time the other person spent bitching about it.
My husband and I were together for 25 years. The last 5 of those he was sick and generally watching TV of one kind or another at home. His friends steered him into watching Colbert and Stewart, etc after Trump's election. We had always been somewhat liberal, but never really political. In fact, I had kept up on politics more than him over the years and never discussed them much because he wasn't really interested.
Suddenly, he wanted to discuss this stuff all the time, wanted me to watch these shows (which I thought even then were propaganda). I just took a 'that's nice dear' attitude to it and he soon learned to take those discussions to his friends and leave me out of it. I don't know where we would be if he had lived. He was already getting dropped by his 'friends' as part of the purity cycle (being too white, male and straight to be cool or correct in any difference of opinion and was cancelled by a close friend of over 20 years during this time) so I'd like to think that he might have come around.
No matter what, I still loved him and it would have taken the proverbial outright support of child sexual abuse or something equally heinous to have made me leave him.
However, I'm not sure if a healthy relationship could be formed in the first place in situations with such differences.
A right-leaning friend of mine was recently excluded from a hobby-sharing trip with his so-called friends (all left-"leaning"), simply due to the fact that he leaned right. No he's not an alt-right skull-wearer constantly shouting MAGA slogans. Just a guy with common sense who lives in an region swamped by deep blue nonsense. These are "friends" he sees daily and has shared activities with for years or decades. But allowing him to join them on a fun boys trip was a bridge too far, and they told him so. This is something that absolutely never would have crossed our right-leaning minds in reverse. "Let's uninvite those best friends from our trip cuz they are such lefties." So here we have a case where they could be "friends" with an apostate- up to a certain point that is. Just another example of what living in a blue swamp echo-chamber will do to the perspective of the believers.
yes. "I'm not gonna roll up my sleeve. I have doubts." FASCIST! NAZI! How dare you maintain sovereignty over your own body?? Instantly I became an apostate. OK then...
I refuse to discuss politics or religion with anyone with whom I have a personal or business relationship. My need to be "right" comes at too high a price if it means the loss of friends & family,or business.
As EGM points out,there are limits to that tolerance...
I'd rather be friends than be right, and there are so few other people that share my tastes in music, books, movies, hobbies, etc that it just is not worth narrowing the pool further.
Same here!
I don't understand when it became obligatory to make political quips all the time in response to random stimuli.
I seem to remember a time when most people didn't.
Now, I constantly hear these non sequitur political quips all the time and its really annoying because I don't want to be constantly reminded of how stupid so many people are.
You can work hard to preserve friendships with diverging views, but unless you see them in person regularly, good luck with that.
The high school/college friends who have known me in real life for decades (and didn’t purge themselves over my Covid views) are now removing themselves from my online orbit over Trump/ICE. I have tried to be respectful and rational, only to be met with emotional vomit that I have somehow turned into a Nazi and deserve to be shot. This is after I deserved to be gassed for refusing THE shot. It’s all so confusing.
Anyway, there is no reasoning with these people and if they block me because they can’t handle being asked to clarify their positions (you are upset about people being killed but you think it would be okay if I was killed?), there is really nothing I can do about it, short of agreeing with whichever way the wind is blowing today, which I refuse to do. Total waste of good memories and good technology that kept these old relationships alive much longer than normally feasible for people.
Same here. I was involved in theater in my younger life, so you can imagine the friends that remain from high school and college era are ... Few to none!
Ouch.
My husband was an actor, I am an artist/crafter that used to hang out in the art scene periphery, we both used to do historical re-creation. I guess it's true about how there are some rivers you can never cross again as they have flowed past you without stopping...
Oh that’s very hard. I’m sorry. Thank goodness for Substack. It came into my life right when I thought I might lose my mind for real!
Me too. The late summer of the jabs. I was at low ebb and frightened. I didn’t recognize most of the people around me because I knew they were deep into the narrative and seeing the hate spewing from everywhere toward we who refused them. Substack saved me.
I think that's about the time I discovered it too. Must have been meant to be! That was not a fun time.
Happening here too, although we got through on the same page during Covid...
It’s harsh how the scythe keeps slashing with each new issue. Made new friends with dissidents over Covid, along comes Ukraine, Palestine, Trump and now ICE. Of course we don’t have to agree on everything, but my god people would really prefer that to be the case.
Crazy, isn't it?
I cling to substack, at least these few blogs, to reassure me I am not entirely alone. But it saddens me that IRL, the cuts get closer. I can only thank the universe that my son and best friend seem to be on the same ride as me and it gives me hope. But when people start seeing n*z!s everywhere while at the same time defending those who exhibit actual concerning behaviors, I know I can't hang.
the few become that much more precious....
The organic thing to happen, is people simply lose touch and drift away.
Indeed. I’ve always felt social media is a double edged sword. It is not simply all bad. There was real value for me since I moved to another country. Without social media I would not have been exposed to new information from people I respect that made me change my mind on things in the same way the letter writer did. I would like that to happen with others, especially old friends who should know better than to accuse me of being a racist Nazi. Alas. It’s not always up to me.