So putting a useless but harmless covering on your face is, in my opinion, no big deal. If it makes someone else feel better, why not. I'm like that. Besides, I'm told it improves my appearance :-). But...
Non-covid respiratory infections have exploded since masking became a thing. No mystery why: wearing the same mask for hours creates a lovely environment to grow bacteria (lots of research on this and one reason you docs are supposed to change your mask often in a clinical setting). Pretty easy to see what folks do is get a cloth mask, wear it day in and day out, maybe wash it once a week, and so viola, millions of needless yet sometimes life threatening respiratory infections.
I'm not anti-mask or advocating you stop wearing whatever affectation you find pleasing, for whatever reason. I find the cosmetic and emotional value sufficient. These days while traveling I get a box of 50 disposable masks so I can change them often. At home I carry a bottle of alcohol (not the good kind) to disinfect my stylish custom made face covering often (Vodka will work in a pinch, but not while you're driving!).
I thing people should know and choose for themselves. Apparently that makes me a right wing extremist insurrectionist republithug conspiracy theorist who is anti science. I suppose I can live with that :-)
It certainly is useless, but it definitely is *not* harmless, either to you as the wearer (which I suppose is ultimately your business) or to those around you. There is evidence it *increases* the spread of a virus and other pathogens and it is abundantly clear that it has a terrible, negative psychological effect on other people, arousing anxiety, making communication difficult (especially harmful to children and the elderly who often have trouble hearing), covering emotional clues , and generally rending the fabric of society. Making others who are clinging ignorantly to a magical talisman "feel better" is not doing them a favor either. It is enabling and perpetuating a mental illness or addiction, which is what mask wearing has become for many, and that is never a kindness.
So yes, of course, I am against forcing the wearing of masks on anyone, but I am also anti-mask and will continue to rail against the wearing of them (except obviously in the extremely limited and rare circumstances where they may be somewhat useful).
Some points for thought, definitely. Argues further for an informed choice. I am seeing the "common good" being harmed in many ways, some you mention I'd not realized. The point on enabling addiction is worth pondering. It is surely not a kindness. And I see it all the time: either because of false information that the mask somehow protects them, or a flawed belief they are helping the grater good, or just because it's a habit, the mask wearing continues - and see people alone in a car wearing masks. Had a professor of physics (really) try to convince me that the DoT/CDC mandate for truckers to wear masks WHILE ALONE IN THEIR TRUCKS made sense. That kind of loyalty induced brain death is worrying, for sure.
FWIW I don't see the need to stop other people from smoking tobacco (or anything else) when I'm not around. Your lungs, your choice. I mean, I even tolerate people who carry M1911a1s chambered in 9mm :-).
тАЬ I don't see the need to stop other people from smoking tobacco (or anything else) when I'm not around.тАЭ I note that you add the caveat тАЬwhen IтАЩm not aroundтАЭ, indicating that harm to others limits their choice. And masks are extremely harmful to others, as I indicated. In addition to the things I mentioned, they establish an atmosphere of fear, not just of a trumped up тАЬdeadly virusтАЭ but of other people, saying that we are all dangerous bioweapons set to kill one another without warning, better avoided, and not to be trusted. They also, as an act of irrational compliance, send a signal legitimizing the totalitarian biofascistsтАЩ demands that we follow orders that are contrary to science, instinct and common sense. They are telling children that this is normal and helping to create a fearful, unthinking generation that will cement dystopia in place for decades at least. Wearing masks, unless alone in the desert or at home, is not simply a personal choice.
I do NOT suggest that "harm to others" justifies limiting their choice. In fact tobacco smoke doesn't bother me at all (and I've seen the "second had smoke" argument for what it is). Pot smoke does, so I choose not to be around people smoking pot. That is MY choice. Didn't mean to suggest I'd impose restrictions on others, beyond perhaps the restriction of not having me hanging out with you.
I agree that the "for the protection of others" should always be suspected (and usually based on a collection of false premises and faulty logic). It is the most popular claim of totalitarian fascists in modern history.
I think you raise a valid challenge to my "if it doesn't do harm". I was considering the harm to myself, which I feel I can manage with safe mask practices. The use of mask mandates as a political tool to deepen division and justify hate is definite harm. The characterization of scientific method as "disinformation" is definitely harming millions of people. I had not associated those harms with my choice to cover my face.
Let's ponder the argument. Is my choice to cover my face the trigger? I see your point that it might support fear. But ultimately, is it not your choice to believe in false gods and political propaganda while ignoring the actual science? Is it not a choice to comply, irrationally and absolutely, even when your own faculties are capable of seeing the flaws and warning signs? Where is the edge of that cliff?
I can tell you that putting control of educating our children soley in the hands of governments is way over that line - it is the rocks at the bottom of the cliff. And that's real long term harm to all of humanity. That's why billions of people are willing to abandon not only their freedoms but condemn all of us to totalitarian rule in some irrational belief it is for our own good. That's how I see it, at least - generations educated by the state just happen to be loyal and submissive to the state. By design.
FWIW when I'm with folks who are bothered by tobacco smoke, I may politely ask someone to not smoke around us. I have never had a tobacco smoker be an ass**** when asked politely. Not once has a polite request been met with anything other than "sure, no problem". That's my personal experience. Of course I'm considerate too - if I walk into a smoke filled bar or nightclub (the do still exist), I'm not going to ask the people already there to stop, as that make me the ass**** and I do attempt to avoid being a jerk (I said attempt... ;-). Pot smokers are an entirely different experience....
IтАЩm sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I was not suggesting (nor did I think you were) that there should be any laws, regulations, mandates, etc against people choosing to wear masks. If that was your impression, IтАЩm sorry. All I was saying is that I donтАЩt consider it something basically neutral and I will continue us to argue against it. Too many people think it is a harmless action that has no negative consequences and they need to know thatтАЩs not true. That doesnтАЩt mean I think they should be subject to laws, mandates or punishmentтАФbeyond my disapproval which I reserve the right to express when and where I consider it appropriate.
TheyтАЩre for the first time finding microplastics in lungs. Guess what masks are made of. An epidemiologist who is also an MD warned me to wear those things as infrequently as possible because decades old studies have shown that mask fibers are inhaled ans get stuck in lungs.
Your wearing your mask is no big deal. Forcing everyone else to wear the useless things just to show allegiance or something, is a big deal. I loathe the political statement they make and, yes, you are somewhat anti-science or at least ignorant of science.
Exactly - that was my point if not clear - for ME to decide that I'll cover my face if only because it makes others more comfortable is a choice I have made, not one I'd impose on anyone else. Though some of the responses have me reconsidering the actual harm being done. I had not thought of my courtesy as enabling harmful fears and addiction in others, nor supporting the abdication of personal responsibility (that is the last thing I want to enable).
So putting a useless but harmless covering on your face is, in my opinion, no big deal. If it makes someone else feel better, why not. I'm like that. Besides, I'm told it improves my appearance :-). But...
Non-covid respiratory infections have exploded since masking became a thing. No mystery why: wearing the same mask for hours creates a lovely environment to grow bacteria (lots of research on this and one reason you docs are supposed to change your mask often in a clinical setting). Pretty easy to see what folks do is get a cloth mask, wear it day in and day out, maybe wash it once a week, and so viola, millions of needless yet sometimes life threatening respiratory infections.
I'm not anti-mask or advocating you stop wearing whatever affectation you find pleasing, for whatever reason. I find the cosmetic and emotional value sufficient. These days while traveling I get a box of 50 disposable masks so I can change them often. At home I carry a bottle of alcohol (not the good kind) to disinfect my stylish custom made face covering often (Vodka will work in a pinch, but not while you're driving!).
I thing people should know and choose for themselves. Apparently that makes me a right wing extremist insurrectionist republithug conspiracy theorist who is anti science. I suppose I can live with that :-)
It certainly is useless, but it definitely is *not* harmless, either to you as the wearer (which I suppose is ultimately your business) or to those around you. There is evidence it *increases* the spread of a virus and other pathogens and it is abundantly clear that it has a terrible, negative psychological effect on other people, arousing anxiety, making communication difficult (especially harmful to children and the elderly who often have trouble hearing), covering emotional clues , and generally rending the fabric of society. Making others who are clinging ignorantly to a magical talisman "feel better" is not doing them a favor either. It is enabling and perpetuating a mental illness or addiction, which is what mask wearing has become for many, and that is never a kindness.
So yes, of course, I am against forcing the wearing of masks on anyone, but I am also anti-mask and will continue to rail against the wearing of them (except obviously in the extremely limited and rare circumstances where they may be somewhat useful).
Some points for thought, definitely. Argues further for an informed choice. I am seeing the "common good" being harmed in many ways, some you mention I'd not realized. The point on enabling addiction is worth pondering. It is surely not a kindness. And I see it all the time: either because of false information that the mask somehow protects them, or a flawed belief they are helping the grater good, or just because it's a habit, the mask wearing continues - and see people alone in a car wearing masks. Had a professor of physics (really) try to convince me that the DoT/CDC mandate for truckers to wear masks WHILE ALONE IN THEIR TRUCKS made sense. That kind of loyalty induced brain death is worrying, for sure.
FWIW I don't see the need to stop other people from smoking tobacco (or anything else) when I'm not around. Your lungs, your choice. I mean, I even tolerate people who carry M1911a1s chambered in 9mm :-).
тАЬ I don't see the need to stop other people from smoking tobacco (or anything else) when I'm not around.тАЭ I note that you add the caveat тАЬwhen IтАЩm not aroundтАЭ, indicating that harm to others limits their choice. And masks are extremely harmful to others, as I indicated. In addition to the things I mentioned, they establish an atmosphere of fear, not just of a trumped up тАЬdeadly virusтАЭ but of other people, saying that we are all dangerous bioweapons set to kill one another without warning, better avoided, and not to be trusted. They also, as an act of irrational compliance, send a signal legitimizing the totalitarian biofascistsтАЩ demands that we follow orders that are contrary to science, instinct and common sense. They are telling children that this is normal and helping to create a fearful, unthinking generation that will cement dystopia in place for decades at least. Wearing masks, unless alone in the desert or at home, is not simply a personal choice.
I do NOT suggest that "harm to others" justifies limiting their choice. In fact tobacco smoke doesn't bother me at all (and I've seen the "second had smoke" argument for what it is). Pot smoke does, so I choose not to be around people smoking pot. That is MY choice. Didn't mean to suggest I'd impose restrictions on others, beyond perhaps the restriction of not having me hanging out with you.
I agree that the "for the protection of others" should always be suspected (and usually based on a collection of false premises and faulty logic). It is the most popular claim of totalitarian fascists in modern history.
I think you raise a valid challenge to my "if it doesn't do harm". I was considering the harm to myself, which I feel I can manage with safe mask practices. The use of mask mandates as a political tool to deepen division and justify hate is definite harm. The characterization of scientific method as "disinformation" is definitely harming millions of people. I had not associated those harms with my choice to cover my face.
Let's ponder the argument. Is my choice to cover my face the trigger? I see your point that it might support fear. But ultimately, is it not your choice to believe in false gods and political propaganda while ignoring the actual science? Is it not a choice to comply, irrationally and absolutely, even when your own faculties are capable of seeing the flaws and warning signs? Where is the edge of that cliff?
I can tell you that putting control of educating our children soley in the hands of governments is way over that line - it is the rocks at the bottom of the cliff. And that's real long term harm to all of humanity. That's why billions of people are willing to abandon not only their freedoms but condemn all of us to totalitarian rule in some irrational belief it is for our own good. That's how I see it, at least - generations educated by the state just happen to be loyal and submissive to the state. By design.
FWIW when I'm with folks who are bothered by tobacco smoke, I may politely ask someone to not smoke around us. I have never had a tobacco smoker be an ass**** when asked politely. Not once has a polite request been met with anything other than "sure, no problem". That's my personal experience. Of course I'm considerate too - if I walk into a smoke filled bar or nightclub (the do still exist), I'm not going to ask the people already there to stop, as that make me the ass**** and I do attempt to avoid being a jerk (I said attempt... ;-). Pot smokers are an entirely different experience....
IтАЩm sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I was not suggesting (nor did I think you were) that there should be any laws, regulations, mandates, etc against people choosing to wear masks. If that was your impression, IтАЩm sorry. All I was saying is that I donтАЩt consider it something basically neutral and I will continue us to argue against it. Too many people think it is a harmless action that has no negative consequences and they need to know thatтАЩs not true. That doesnтАЩt mean I think they should be subject to laws, mandates or punishmentтАФbeyond my disapproval which I reserve the right to express when and where I consider it appropriate.
Understood. And some good points raised, worthy of thought. Lots of thought!
TheyтАЩre for the first time finding microplastics in lungs. Guess what masks are made of. An epidemiologist who is also an MD warned me to wear those things as infrequently as possible because decades old studies have shown that mask fibers are inhaled ans get stuck in lungs.
Asbestosis-like illnesses to follow?
At least it might mean masks are banned and outlawed!
Succinctly put.
Your wearing your mask is no big deal. Forcing everyone else to wear the useless things just to show allegiance or something, is a big deal. I loathe the political statement they make and, yes, you are somewhat anti-science or at least ignorant of science.
Exactly - that was my point if not clear - for ME to decide that I'll cover my face if only because it makes others more comfortable is a choice I have made, not one I'd impose on anyone else. Though some of the responses have me reconsidering the actual harm being done. I had not thought of my courtesy as enabling harmful fears and addiction in others, nor supporting the abdication of personal responsibility (that is the last thing I want to enable).
But there are a lot of polypropylenes (sp?) in those disposable masks. What could they be doing to our lungs as we breathe them in?