Can you please explain to me the long term effects of taking a mRNA vaccine? You seem to comfortably think it is a "placebo". What are you basing this on, other then your faith that it will work out? There is zero data on long term use in humans.
Oh, no, I don't think it's a placebo. I personally think there are danger flares all around. But insofar as every member of my family has submitted, and will line up for boosters until whenever, I cling to the thin hope that, in spite of everything I have learned, it is somehow benign in the long term. I used "placebo" in this case only to indicate the immediate psychological effect this injection appears to have.
Do you think I can control the actions of sovereign adults? If so, your family functions differently from mine. You make other assumptions in your comment that are also unwarrented, but this is not about me or you. What I was trying to say was, all of us, whatever our "vax status", have many loved ones who have chosen or been effectively forced to go along. I cannot wish them ill. I pray I am wrong, and el gato malo is wrong, and Dr. Malone is wrong, and vanderBrosse (?) is wrong. But I fear they are all right. This should be breaking all of our hearts.
When one side argues for choice and the other side insists that the side that's happy to give them the choice to mask up, vaxx up, stay home must be compelled to do the same or else their own interventions "won't work," we've got asymmetry of regard here.
It's like a knightly order of chivalry challenging Barbary pirates to a Queensberry boxing match.
This is an important point that many people don't understand. Science can (or should be able to) tell us what the risk is -- but it can't tell us if that risk is acceptable or not. Everybody has their own risk tolerance and risk profile. I don't ride a motorcycle because the risk isn't worth the reward. On the other hand I play third base in softball whereas others won't because THEIR risk isn't worth the reward.
Of course, the bureaucrat would either ban ALL risk or spread it out evenly -- even to people who don't want to ride the motorcycle or play third base.
You're right - it's a sort of faith. Perhaps informed by the success (or failure) of past vaccines? In either case, there is no long term data yet so no one can answer those questions only speculate based on what's been observed so far. This is why getting the vaccine should be a personal choice based on one's own risk/benefit calculation.
Can you please explain to me the long term effects of taking a mRNA vaccine? You seem to comfortably think it is a "placebo". What are you basing this on, other then your faith that it will work out? There is zero data on long term use in humans.
Oh, no, I don't think it's a placebo. I personally think there are danger flares all around. But insofar as every member of my family has submitted, and will line up for boosters until whenever, I cling to the thin hope that, in spite of everything I have learned, it is somehow benign in the long term. I used "placebo" in this case only to indicate the immediate psychological effect this injection appears to have.
> every member of my family has submitted, and will line up for boosters until whenever
I really question your judgement. I do hope it all works out for you.
Do you think I can control the actions of sovereign adults? If so, your family functions differently from mine. You make other assumptions in your comment that are also unwarrented, but this is not about me or you. What I was trying to say was, all of us, whatever our "vax status", have many loved ones who have chosen or been effectively forced to go along. I cannot wish them ill. I pray I am wrong, and el gato malo is wrong, and Dr. Malone is wrong, and vanderBrosse (?) is wrong. But I fear they are all right. This should be breaking all of our hearts.
and this is an important point.
arguing for choice and liberty involves accepting that others will make choices we wish they would not.
hell, i have some friends that listen to (shudder) maroon 5 and have mistaken it for music...
what can one do save pity them and try to educate them?
we can provide information, but we cannot force choices. that's not consistent with supporting a free society or personal agency.
When one side argues for choice and the other side insists that the side that's happy to give them the choice to mask up, vaxx up, stay home must be compelled to do the same or else their own interventions "won't work," we've got asymmetry of regard here.
It's like a knightly order of chivalry challenging Barbary pirates to a Queensberry boxing match.
i find that framing deeply problematic.
"we must become monsters to battle monsters" is a self defeating philosophy.
do that, and you've lost before you even begin.
you cannot use "only good coercion" to oppress your way out of tyranny.
such powers, once granted, always wind up wielded by exactly the people you wished they wouldn't.
This is an important point that many people don't understand. Science can (or should be able to) tell us what the risk is -- but it can't tell us if that risk is acceptable or not. Everybody has their own risk tolerance and risk profile. I don't ride a motorcycle because the risk isn't worth the reward. On the other hand I play third base in softball whereas others won't because THEIR risk isn't worth the reward.
Of course, the bureaucrat would either ban ALL risk or spread it out evenly -- even to people who don't want to ride the motorcycle or play third base.
You're right - it's a sort of faith. Perhaps informed by the success (or failure) of past vaccines? In either case, there is no long term data yet so no one can answer those questions only speculate based on what's been observed so far. This is why getting the vaccine should be a personal choice based on one's own risk/benefit calculation.