That's great for the private sector. Doesn't provide warm fuzzies for those working for a federal contractor. Both the executive orders and the prospect of losing my job/career (and eventually my home) before Christmas (deadline has been given) are very real.
Are they though? There is so much semantics and subtle language manipulation and double speak, particularly around these mandates. As soon as you put the wording/language used under the magnifying glass, you start to see all the loose ends. I'm not unempathetic to your experience and worries, but I'm in Australia and they are doing the precise same bluster and arm flexing here. They are all talking a big scary game and using the media's penchant for scaremongering to help perpetuate the smoke screen. Despite, unlike JBiden, our Priminister has said he wont make the vaccines cumpulsory (hes using businesses as his hatchet guy), but at the end of the day, there is enough grey area in our own constitution to make it all tied up in discussions for decades! There is no actual solid law. It's all mandates and fines are being issued for non compliance, but no fines that have been challenged, have been actually required to pay.
I personally think, All the emperors of the world have no attire on this issue, and certainly no real teeth!
It is my understanding that in the US, the mandate for federal employees is very real and *does* extend to all contractors doing business with the federal government. But you're right, for the most part, compulsion is a psyop. The only power it has is in fooling people to go along with it. Unfortunately, most people are fools who are happy to subject those around them to whatever diktat makes them feel morally superior.
I work in Defense as well. We are being compelled to get the jab by Dec 8th. Requests for exemption are due today. My particular site is in the deep South and has the lowest jab rate company-wide. (less than 20% last I heard) So, it will be interesting to see what happens. I heard yesterday that the FAR council is meeting non-stop because there are growing fears of low compliance among both administrative and production groups. For my location, our entire I/T team is saying no. And, to my SHOCK, our HR team is saying no. I am in Contracts and 2/3 of us are saying no. Gonna be an interesting few weeks. May God be with us.
Fingers crossed here in Australia for you. If you can, please keep us posted. I figure that while Australia is leading the charge on going "full metal vaxxed", the Priminister is careful to watch which way the "wind" is blowing in the global politics. USA is still fairly influential globally. I figure if you guys fall, then we will follow. Likewise, if your pushback works, then it may give our government pause and also those in leadership, courage, that have been silent so far. I know there are people in power, who think its wrong, but they are cowed, becaue the one or two who spoke up initially got shut down hard, and villified. Or shoved into the "extremists" category by the political media.
Good luck, There are more than just U.S. citizens, depending on your outcome.
Go follow vivabarneslaw.locals.com he has been giving extensive information on vaccine mandates and even your rights and exemptions available as a Federal Contractor. You can read lots for free but also Buy a paid subscription for about 5 bucks a month and watch his livestreams several times a week on this subject. Well worth every penny! You need to know your rights and use them! Best of luck to you. I know it’s stressful as hell.
The more I think about it, the more I think your assessment of Brandon as a tantrum-tosser make perfect sense. My instinctual read on the situation is that the Conquering Democrats really seemed to believe their own hype at the start of this year, and assumed that "the pandemic" would easily fall in line without Orange Man around to mess it up. They really thought that Trump was a primary reason for why COVID numbers didn't go in the direction they wanted. They really thought that as long as "the adults" were back in charge, the problem would take care of itself.
I.e., the same hubris that every would-be tyrant suffers from. "If I were in charge, I'd fix it."
They thought they were entitled to a utopia risen ipso facto from the victory over Mean Tweets. But then the Biden Administration ran face-first into the brick wall of Virus Gonna Virus, and they can't grab hold again of what got away from them.
Then face-first into the brick wall of Afghanistan. Then face-first into the brick wall of the border. Then face-first into the brick wall of inflation........
Seriously, I love you, el gato. You are the best kind of brilliant …. genius smart, razor sharp wit, hillarious images and who doesn’t love it when you call Biden out for the cats a$$ that he is! 🐈⬛ 💩
I like the OHSA angle. You take the OHSA training and get a certificate. You would need to add the vaccine information to the OHSA training and recertify everyone at you facility. At a cost of 1 gazillion dollars. We called this a dog and pony show in the AF. Now he's threatening the soccer moms. In all my years of dealing with women. Sleepy Joe you are going to a path with these women that you will not win.
I Hope you're right. I hope it's not that Joe just announced this without giving OSHA warning and they are working to write the rules now. The consequences of enacting this if it comes to pass are enormous. Firstly, how exactly are they going to test that many people each week? They can't. Secondly, how are HR departments going to monitor compliance? This becomes nearly a full time job just to keep up with everyone's Covid test response each week even in a 101 person company. Thirdly, this will shut down factories if they actually try to comply. Between not getting results back in time and folks quitting - you would see a horrendous supply chain interruption. And we all know that this thing would go to court anyway and likely lose because it hasn't gone through any reasonable review with anyone. It's a disaster.
From the article: However, following the announcement we noted OSHA was not taking any steps needed to engage with business interests to trigger the first-step in the organization of a process to initiate a rule-making process.
I’m only talking about the basic guidance aspect. The labor discussions with internal and external customers of the DoL, OSHA, etc. to set a calendar for how to implement “guidance”, just that part. There was nothing, and there is nothing.
Sure, any such mandates seem incontrovertibly unconstitutional.
Weak link however is the courts, and the tendency of some judges to play ball with any administration. And to seek refuge in elliptical judgements, knowing that passing the buck to higher courts is often the best survival strategy.
In Europe, the toothless ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) has consistently opted out of the vax debate, opining in April 2021 that mandatory vaccination can be deemed "necessary in a democratic society".
This summer, the court pleaded incompetence when French firefighters filed a suit against compulsory vaxing.
Very true...the idea is that this type of judicial phrasing gives judges plenty of wiggle room, and puts the burden of proof on the plaintiff, who must show that the government is wholly wrong.
In most countries, since judges usually avoid antagonizing those in power, the govt then needs only to produce a few lightweight pieces of evidence to give courts an excuse to accept the govt's argument, weak though it may be.
The goal is to provide air cover for businesses. This is about “governance by mandate” and about big business taking the heat for the illegal machinations of an illegitimate regime.
Now that they’ve found it only takes a tiny threat to scare the pants off everyone, they’re doing lots of threatening/mandating. No need to make laws to coerce the compliant.
Ask for a religious exemption. They have to give you one, with a reasonable accommodation, no matter what they claim. Every religious exemption lawsuit has been upheld so far. So, use it.
First I’d ask for a lot of proofs injury is not possible or they’d pay. Make them think long and hard about pressing you. No one else will defy them, but it’s what must be done. Defiance. It’s what cats do.
Yes don’t quit. See if they have the balls to fire you illegally, then sue if they do.
The idea of myocarditis was considered far fetched at first, now several countries have banned Moderna for people under 30 because the risk of myocarditis is 1 in 5000.
As others have said-ask for religious exemption. Only need sincerely held belief. Or medical if you can get it, but in Governor Greusome’s state they are limiting those supposedly.
Interviewing with two other big companies that I’m gonna guess will have the same deal but haven’t asked yet. Tho financially I could take the hit, hmm
If they haven’t asked yet….I mean, if they cared, wouldn’t they ask first? Or just tell em up front—I’m not getting jabbed, you down with that? If I lose my Fed job that’s what I’ll have to tell people: I got fired coz I won’t take the shot. Why else would I quit my “cushy” job?
Here in Victoria, it's exactly the same. Businesses are being coerced into compliance with something that does not exist, and mostly they pass the buck down the chain.
I've done the same, simply telling our contractors to refer to government requirements and leave it at that.
They are relying on the 'follow the rules' types to enforce it all without any basis, I see some interesting court cases coming.
Think about it - it makes no sense that Biden would actually issue this rule. It will have a nationwide injunction against it within probably 5 business days (likely faster). Not good politics for an administration with already crashing approval ratings.
Are they even saying why we need to take the damn shot anymore? I mean, like a real reason, not some platitude like “it will get covid behind us.” How? How will it get covid behind us? They don’t even bother to lie anymore.
That's great for the private sector. Doesn't provide warm fuzzies for those working for a federal contractor. Both the executive orders and the prospect of losing my job/career (and eventually my home) before Christmas (deadline has been given) are very real.
Are they though? There is so much semantics and subtle language manipulation and double speak, particularly around these mandates. As soon as you put the wording/language used under the magnifying glass, you start to see all the loose ends. I'm not unempathetic to your experience and worries, but I'm in Australia and they are doing the precise same bluster and arm flexing here. They are all talking a big scary game and using the media's penchant for scaremongering to help perpetuate the smoke screen. Despite, unlike JBiden, our Priminister has said he wont make the vaccines cumpulsory (hes using businesses as his hatchet guy), but at the end of the day, there is enough grey area in our own constitution to make it all tied up in discussions for decades! There is no actual solid law. It's all mandates and fines are being issued for non compliance, but no fines that have been challenged, have been actually required to pay.
I personally think, All the emperors of the world have no attire on this issue, and certainly no real teeth!
It is my understanding that in the US, the mandate for federal employees is very real and *does* extend to all contractors doing business with the federal government. But you're right, for the most part, compulsion is a psyop. The only power it has is in fooling people to go along with it. Unfortunately, most people are fools who are happy to subject those around them to whatever diktat makes them feel morally superior.
Have you ever seen the story of Scott Bartle? https://youtu.be/umVj5XQYAi8
I work in Defense as well. We are being compelled to get the jab by Dec 8th. Requests for exemption are due today. My particular site is in the deep South and has the lowest jab rate company-wide. (less than 20% last I heard) So, it will be interesting to see what happens. I heard yesterday that the FAR council is meeting non-stop because there are growing fears of low compliance among both administrative and production groups. For my location, our entire I/T team is saying no. And, to my SHOCK, our HR team is saying no. I am in Contracts and 2/3 of us are saying no. Gonna be an interesting few weeks. May God be with us.
Fingers crossed here in Australia for you. If you can, please keep us posted. I figure that while Australia is leading the charge on going "full metal vaxxed", the Priminister is careful to watch which way the "wind" is blowing in the global politics. USA is still fairly influential globally. I figure if you guys fall, then we will follow. Likewise, if your pushback works, then it may give our government pause and also those in leadership, courage, that have been silent so far. I know there are people in power, who think its wrong, but they are cowed, becaue the one or two who spoke up initially got shut down hard, and villified. Or shoved into the "extremists" category by the political media.
Good luck, There are more than just U.S. citizens, depending on your outcome.
Go follow vivabarneslaw.locals.com he has been giving extensive information on vaccine mandates and even your rights and exemptions available as a Federal Contractor. You can read lots for free but also Buy a paid subscription for about 5 bucks a month and watch his livestreams several times a week on this subject. Well worth every penny! You need to know your rights and use them! Best of luck to you. I know it’s stressful as hell.
The more I think about it, the more I think your assessment of Brandon as a tantrum-tosser make perfect sense. My instinctual read on the situation is that the Conquering Democrats really seemed to believe their own hype at the start of this year, and assumed that "the pandemic" would easily fall in line without Orange Man around to mess it up. They really thought that Trump was a primary reason for why COVID numbers didn't go in the direction they wanted. They really thought that as long as "the adults" were back in charge, the problem would take care of itself.
I.e., the same hubris that every would-be tyrant suffers from. "If I were in charge, I'd fix it."
They thought they were entitled to a utopia risen ipso facto from the victory over Mean Tweets. But then the Biden Administration ran face-first into the brick wall of Virus Gonna Virus, and they can't grab hold again of what got away from them.
Then face-first into the brick wall of Afghanistan. Then face-first into the brick wall of the border. Then face-first into the brick wall of inflation........
Seriously, I love you, el gato. You are the best kind of brilliant …. genius smart, razor sharp wit, hillarious images and who doesn’t love it when you call Biden out for the cats a$$ that he is! 🐈⬛ 💩
I like the OHSA angle. You take the OHSA training and get a certificate. You would need to add the vaccine information to the OHSA training and recertify everyone at you facility. At a cost of 1 gazillion dollars. We called this a dog and pony show in the AF. Now he's threatening the soccer moms. In all my years of dealing with women. Sleepy Joe you are going to a path with these women that you will not win.
OSHA is notoriously weak on enforcement t.
I Hope you're right. I hope it's not that Joe just announced this without giving OSHA warning and they are working to write the rules now. The consequences of enacting this if it comes to pass are enormous. Firstly, how exactly are they going to test that many people each week? They can't. Secondly, how are HR departments going to monitor compliance? This becomes nearly a full time job just to keep up with everyone's Covid test response each week even in a 101 person company. Thirdly, this will shut down factories if they actually try to comply. Between not getting results back in time and folks quitting - you would see a horrendous supply chain interruption. And we all know that this thing would go to court anyway and likely lose because it hasn't gone through any reasonable review with anyone. It's a disaster.
gato is absolutely right.
From the article: However, following the announcement we noted OSHA was not taking any steps needed to engage with business interests to trigger the first-step in the organization of a process to initiate a rule-making process.
I’m only talking about the basic guidance aspect. The labor discussions with internal and external customers of the DoL, OSHA, etc. to set a calendar for how to implement “guidance”, just that part. There was nothing, and there is nothing.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/09/27/it-was-a-con-white-house-has-no-idea-when-or-even-if-osha-will-ever-provide-rules-to-support-legally-enforceable-worker-vaccine-mandate/
Love the last pic of the thread. Kitties are so dam proud of their hineys!
Picture =1000 words.
LOL, but I can only think of one, hiney!
Even fake, this is a cruel move. Time to dust off the guillotines.
I am addicted to the daily dose of bad cattitude. I’m fully protected from severe disease of lies that are found in the litter box.
Sure, any such mandates seem incontrovertibly unconstitutional.
Weak link however is the courts, and the tendency of some judges to play ball with any administration. And to seek refuge in elliptical judgements, knowing that passing the buck to higher courts is often the best survival strategy.
In Europe, the toothless ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) has consistently opted out of the vax debate, opining in April 2021 that mandatory vaccination can be deemed "necessary in a democratic society".
This summer, the court pleaded incompetence when French firefighters filed a suit against compulsory vaxing.
So...fingers crossed for the US judiciary.
Isnt the key word "can"? I would think that it would be hard pressed to prove "necessary" in the face of C19s less deadly than influenza status.
Very true...the idea is that this type of judicial phrasing gives judges plenty of wiggle room, and puts the burden of proof on the plaintiff, who must show that the government is wholly wrong.
In most countries, since judges usually avoid antagonizing those in power, the govt then needs only to produce a few lightweight pieces of evidence to give courts an excuse to accept the govt's argument, weak though it may be.
“Many were already looking down the road at doing this, but the fact that they get to blame Biden is like manna from heaven.”
—————
I just don’t get it. These shots don’t work. They don’t stop you from getting sick and they don’t stop the virus from spreading.
Why do so many people want to force it on others? It makes no sense except in a sadistic subjugation kind of way.
And in the meantime, the company may be in legal trouble.
The goal is to provide air cover for businesses. This is about “governance by mandate” and about big business taking the heat for the illegal machinations of an illegitimate regime.
Now that they’ve found it only takes a tiny threat to scare the pants off everyone, they’re doing lots of threatening/mandating. No need to make laws to coerce the compliant.
Exactly! Which also means, ignore that shit and love your life!
Debating whether to quit my private sector job on principle as they are mandating, with HR saying the idea of side effects are “far fetched”
Don't quit. Make them fire you.
Ask for a religious exemption. They have to give you one, with a reasonable accommodation, no matter what they claim. Every religious exemption lawsuit has been upheld so far. So, use it.
First I’d ask for a lot of proofs injury is not possible or they’d pay. Make them think long and hard about pressing you. No one else will defy them, but it’s what must be done. Defiance. It’s what cats do.
Yes don’t quit. See if they have the balls to fire you illegally, then sue if they do.
The idea of myocarditis was considered far fetched at first, now several countries have banned Moderna for people under 30 because the risk of myocarditis is 1 in 5000.
There’s plenty of sample letters floating around. Check Telegram for your area, vivabarnes.locals.com
As others have said-ask for religious exemption. Only need sincerely held belief. Or medical if you can get it, but in Governor Greusome’s state they are limiting those supposedly.
Quit if you have options?
Interviewing with two other big companies that I’m gonna guess will have the same deal but haven’t asked yet. Tho financially I could take the hit, hmm
If they haven’t asked yet….I mean, if they cared, wouldn’t they ask first? Or just tell em up front—I’m not getting jabbed, you down with that? If I lose my Fed job that’s what I’ll have to tell people: I got fired coz I won’t take the shot. Why else would I quit my “cushy” job?
Here in Victoria, it's exactly the same. Businesses are being coerced into compliance with something that does not exist, and mostly they pass the buck down the chain.
I've done the same, simply telling our contractors to refer to government requirements and leave it at that.
They are relying on the 'follow the rules' types to enforce it all without any basis, I see some interesting court cases coming.
Think about it - it makes no sense that Biden would actually issue this rule. It will have a nationwide injunction against it within probably 5 business days (likely faster). Not good politics for an administration with already crashing approval ratings.
Are they even saying why we need to take the damn shot anymore? I mean, like a real reason, not some platitude like “it will get covid behind us.” How? How will it get covid behind us? They don’t even bother to lie anymore.
Unfortunately it looks like OSHA has now moved this forward: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/osha-sends-employer-vaccine-rule-to-white-house-for-final-review