I don't know what it is. It might be the power of a small mob, but I've found Wikipedia to be daft on non-political, strictly technical stories. I've had technical corrections to articles repeatedly undone and one I wrote taken down because it 'only cited primary sources' - on a technical article, primary sources are bad? An acquaintance of mine who is well known in certain circles has a wiki page about him - which he had nothing whatever to do with - other than when he went in to correct some inaccuracies about his own life and carrier - had his edits repealed. Apparently he is not an expert on his own life!
I've tried to figure out the mechanisms by which it seems a relative few rule the content on Wikipedia. Even when it's not an obvious propaganda rich topic, it seems messed up.
And they have the gall to continue to ask for donations! Why? Their little cadre of idiots refuse to listen to facts. I;m pretty sure they can’t tell the difference between primary and secondary sources 😣
Expecting a politician to make anything great - except for the national debt, and the totalitarian state - is barrelling head-long on a hiding to nothing. But I have a hat here that I will gladly eat, plus all the humble pie you can bake for me, if what you say turns out.
You got me with the title. I burst out laughing. I can see the next summit with Milei and Trump being wall to wall Interesting. Bravo to the argentines for throwing off the shackles that have ruined their amazing country
Would it be entertaining and productive, or would it be like Simón Bolívar and José de San Martin meeting at Guayaquil?
(I think Bolivar was so obsessed with holding what he had, he refused to accept a "multipolar" South America that San Martín espoused, and set the stage for the failures he later predicted in his final letter to General Juan José Flores, as he lay dying, waiting for the ship to take him into exile.)
Wait, wait, wait. How can we know Milei actually won the election since it was just held yesterday? Don't we have to wait weeks to get a final outcome in a presidential election? I was told ad nauseam expecting election results within 24 hours was racist or something.
He said he is not willing to go into that business, but he did feel it was an option, just not something the government should either support or reject out of hand. He echoes Rothbard and the anarcho-capitalists here: markets solve most problems.
Haha! I loved Robin Williams! I think they suicided him too! He exposed the pedophilia taking place in the Catholic Church with his comedy. God bless him!
My BIL and SIL had breakfast with DT during his run in 2016. He was lovely, charming, funny, gracious -- all those things. His public persona is just that - a persona. But his beliefs in the goodness of the USA and his personal humanity are the real deal. And the trajectory of his administration before the WEF controllers unleashed the covid scam on us was unparalleled prosperity for everyone in our country.
I don't like his public style. But I believe we absolutely need his grit and fire to help lift us out of this cesspool we now inhabit. He's not a hero, and I don't do hero worship. But he is a fighter, and we need that.
I voted for Trump in 2016 because I loved how he verbally bitch slapped all the media idiots. Then I voted for him again in 2020 because of what he had DONE in the past 4 years. I don't care if he's Mr. Nice in public or not, I care what he actually does.
We can have someone else with grit then. He pushed Operation Warp Speed and is very crude. Not a Presidential figure to me. The President of Argentina is setting a great example of what it means to have character, integrity, and courage. He is no pushover and is extremely intelligent, besides being well rounded and versed in many topics.
Trump has never appealed to me, Biden either. I did not vote for either. I align with RFK, Jr. He is a fighter and has been fighting corruption and the corporate world for decades. He speaks on topics that other are afraid to even touch. Cowards!
To each his own. People are obsessed with Trump and I think he is part of the grand charade in politics!
I think "obsessed with Trump" is a talking point. Perhaps "obsessed with what Trump promotes and fights for: Making America Great Again" is a better understanding of why people want him to win. The crowds at his rallies chant "U.S.A.," not "Trump."
I don't see anyone fire-tested who could represent Constitutional liberty-loving people quite as effectively. Vivek Ramaswamy has lightning fast wit and says the right things and is a rock star at bitch-slapping stupid narrative pushers - but who is he? A brilliant guy who created a Pharma company. Tulsi Gabbard just called for a requirement that all people on social media must give their real names - no anonymous posting. If that isn't chilling, I don't know what is. She also worked very hard as a governor to embed China into her state economy. Ron DeSantis is a rock-star governor. If he could galvanize enough people to make a go of it and win the GOP nomination, I'd vote for him. But I haven't seen him doing that. There's no other Republican who's even a consideration. And I'm aligned 100% with RFK jr on vaccine as murder weapons, but he is a Democrat through and through in all other respects.
RFK Jr. is running as an Independent. In any case, I have learned that nothing happens in politics that isn't planned, so we shall see. I don't believe that the powers that should not be, will let anyone make a difference, because they are going ahead full throttle with their 2030 agenda. I have lost all faith in Presidential elections. I think Trump is the false prophet and controlled opposition. It's all theater. I hope I am wrong.
Just sent this to my state rep. It's relevant. These huge wins will mostly not be covered in US news. But they are important for people to know about. Grass roots commitment can win.
Staunch Nationalist Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom has won a massive victory in the Dutch elections, winning more seats than any other party. Farmers fought back and won!! https://x.com/TheRealKeean/status/1727435517745311912?s=20
Another CO2 pipeline company has “paused’ its juggernaut, at least for the time being. Wolf Carbon Solutions moved to withdraw its carbon dioxide pipeline permit application in Illinois on Monday to address concerns identified by state regulators.
This next one is incredibly sad, and not a political win, but it is surprising as heck that this local news station said the quiet part out loud when a toddler died after getting “well visit” vaccinations. People - not all but some - are starting to see what has been happening to kids at the hands of the ‘healthcare’ industry. https://westchester.news12.com/orange-county-15-month-old-dies-2-days-after-well-visit-vaccinations
In a truly libertarian society one ought to be able to voluntarily sell, say, one kidney, to the highest bidder. Also one ought to be able to sell usable organs harvested at death rather than give them away for free. In other words, make them an asset of the estate. I wouldn’t do it myself but it ought to be a choice. My body my choice. I totally understand this position. Also legalizing it removes the black market and all the evil that goes with that.
interesting. I get it. but i think that the pressure to flip the switch from life support to sustaining a body for organ harvest is already moving too quickly in the US. So with the ability to sell your own organs you open up an avenue for death by doctor to sell your own organs. ugh i am uneasy with the organ harvesting/donation industry and feel like we've already descended far on the slippery slope of focusing more on the lives to be saved rather than the current life using organs. i'm not opposed to transplants and i know they save lives. its complicated!
amazingly enough, human organ sales are "illegal" in the US.
Because of that I am unwilling to agree that banning a practice makes human lives that much more sacrosanct.
It might, just might, make it harder since if the family gets a price for the organ, and there has to be a written contract, there is less diffuse responsibility. Diffuse responsibility is the root of many horrors in the modern world.
The commodification of organs for sale feeds right into the transgender/transhumanist corporate game that reduces human beings into parts where we all become interchangeable units of monetized flesh. This is a dangerous road and it will not end well for anyone.
I would object much less to transvestitism, the whole spectrum from dudes wearing dresses to chicks having addadictomy procedures, if they just weren't trying to force _me_ to PAY FOR THEIR FETISHES! and then to pretend they're the Sum of Their Parts. [edited to be replete]
I don't foresee any amongst the Monokidneyed trying to use the force of government to make me pretend that they have two kidneys.
Suggested edit: "I would object much less to the whole spectrum, from dudes wearing dresses to chicks having addadictomy procedures, if they just weren't trying to force _me_ to PAY FOR THEIR FETISHES!"
And thanks for "addadictomy procedure". I look forward to sharing with my bride. Giggles may ensue.
Well. Lets see. What about when the State is the legal guardian of a child having determined the parents of said child are negligent because they wont allow their child to “transition”? Then new state guardian determines that it is in the best interest of the child to not only be castrated but perhaps the sale of their left kidney might offset costs of castration surgery for the state.
Yeah. I agree in theory , however we have govts currently allowing 16 year olds to have radical mastectomies on healthy breast tissue because they “know” they were born in the wrong body . No adult needed. The convention on humans rights of the child would happily see age of consent be as good as gone so that children can “ do as they will” becuz “freedom” . No worries for child exploitation there. Furthermore who designs the Psych eval? The same people who insist that men can be women and vice versa? I mean this entire scheme can go sideways seven ways from Sunday. Trust the Science and Govt Officials tho’ ammirite?
Allowing it can put the pressure on, though. What about someone homeless, or in debt? Nobody needs charity, so long as they have a spare kidney to sell. You can have the loan, but you have to put your body parts on the line as surety. If you can't pay it back, the creditors get them. Just confirm that you have read the 528 pages of legalities covering the loan by clicking on the "I agree" button.
By the same token, one ought to be allowed to sell oneself into slavery, and that's been done in societies throughout history. That would give us a slave population as an institution, and anyone convicted of a crime or captive in war could be added to it as a matter of course. The status could even be hereditary if we understand that a slave's gametes and reproductive organs belong to his or her owner along with the rest of them.
As slaves, they all go where the owner wants them. No more pesky rules against immigration to keep foreigners out. The wealthy can import their no-wage workers from all over the world, and bring them into your community as their private property. When they're eventually freed, they're here, and pretty much equal to you and me.
Those are some of the consequences, unintended or not, that I would foresee as following shortly on the legalization of the selling of body parts and self.
Agree, Snowin. I can't visualize ANY set of regulations that can possibly protect the stupid, the brainwashed, or the clinically insane from themselves - or from the predators and parasites that prey on them. Every code of laws, every compilation of regulations, in human history has eventually been subverted to benefit the dishonest, or the powerful.
Any framework put in place to support commercialization of human organ sales will inevitably be subject to "market forces". Which, given human history, will re-introduce slavery to what's left of "The West". After all, in the last three years, the forces of evil have successfully suspended most of the constitution, virtually eliminated the southern border, and hired tens of thousands of armed tax collectors, whilst working to render the armed forces ineffective. All in the name of "public health".
Imagine a future in which the dystopian stories of human animals raised for their organs in "organ farms", or felons, (or the destitute), are forced to "donate" their organs to "repay their debts".
to exist in a society where people are desperate enough to cut themselves open and pull out an organ for money is not one I want to live in. we can imagine and build a better world than that. the human body is incredibly intelligent and we owe it far more respect and care.
Canada are thinking about it. They want to remove organs before the person dies then give them potassium chloride to finish them off. That way the organs are in top top fashion for sale. I expect there will be a price premium for the 'harvested before death' variety.
Libertarians hold Self-ownership to be the highest of all ideals and a miniarchist government Of the Little People, By the Little People, For the Little People should enforce violations of their Property Rights - Life, in this case, but for all violations of property as well - but also permit transactions between consenting parties.
Maybe, but I don't think so. The vast majority of people don't have a domicile are addicts and alcoholics.
They are already near the bottom of the list for getting organ transplants.
It's not likely that many people would want an organ from someone who has been trashing their own body for years, even decades.
I'm an alcoholic with 3 years of recovery that took 15 years of trying to get those. I've been homeless and am quite familiar with that sad way of being.
The comment more reflects on how low people who are addicted to money will go. I'll sure the esky would read 'perfectly good liver'.
I can empathise, ex military so drinking heavily has been a large part of my life too. I did use it as my go to for not having the death shot though, 'I don't need it, a virus couldn't possibly live in my body, it's too toxic'. Never went down well....🤔
That last bit was a quite common refrain in many meetings I attended early on in the covid days. "If everything else I've put in my body didn't kill me, I'm not worried about some virus." Lol
I'll bet your fireproof suit has received more than average roastings these past few years, and even though it might look like its been in the wars, I hope it'll continue to keep you uncharred for as long as you'll need it!
currently the only folks making (tons and tons of) legal money off of human organ "donations" are the hospitals and chiurgeons who remove and install them. there's a ban on individuals being able to sell their own parts on the white market.
of course there's the burgeoning black market, but the point to legalizing sale would be to reduce incentive to using the black market.
What you are describing is conventionally straightforward, and within the established context, I agree with you. However, black markets exist and are perpetuated primarily for the intelligence community to transact and launder black budget financing.
Unauthorized (untaxed) trading is simple, unadulterated trading and it is how people would transact were they not by parasitized government and encumbered by government intrusion.
Got to make room in the prisons somehow, and also cut down on welfare, maybe?
Since libertarians prefer people starving to having tax-funded basic welfare, allowing the poor to sell their bodies even more so than now makes perfect sense in that perspective.
I automatically read your comment to be describing a highly-ionized gas consisting of charged particles, and was taken aback because I didn't even realize there was a market for that kind of thing. It was only when I reached the word 'blood' that I finally realized what you really intended, and I did feel a little silly, to be sure, but only in the kind of way a physical scientist might.
On the contrary, what you wrote was completely clear. Instead it's a feint and fading hope I have that maybe some day we might have favourable topics that will bring us together instead of the impending collapse, and I suppose that hope keeps popping its little head up at the most unlikely of times.
Sorry for hijacking your comment, which is actually a very good one, and please feel welcome to disagree, but I simply do not know of a single government in living memory that was truly of the people, for the people, by the people.
When questioned on the topic of selling children, Milei initially responded ambiguously but later clarified his opposition, stating, "Obviously, I do not agree with the sale of children."[160]"
What are the odds that "Do you support the sale of children?" will be a question in the 2028 US presidential debates? Possibly worded differently, or course, probably with a "to minor attracted persons who can't conceive" framing, but that general theme.
He wants to restrict the immigration of criminals? That monster!
ikr?!
Must be a secret MAGA white supremacist.
Wokipedia reinforces propaganda narratives. Meowlei will make Argentina and sideburns great again.
I don't know what it is. It might be the power of a small mob, but I've found Wikipedia to be daft on non-political, strictly technical stories. I've had technical corrections to articles repeatedly undone and one I wrote taken down because it 'only cited primary sources' - on a technical article, primary sources are bad? An acquaintance of mine who is well known in certain circles has a wiki page about him - which he had nothing whatever to do with - other than when he went in to correct some inaccuracies about his own life and carrier - had his edits repealed. Apparently he is not an expert on his own life!
I've tried to figure out the mechanisms by which it seems a relative few rule the content on Wikipedia. Even when it's not an obvious propaganda rich topic, it seems messed up.
And they have the gall to continue to ask for donations! Why? Their little cadre of idiots refuse to listen to facts. I;m pretty sure they can’t tell the difference between primary and secondary sources 😣
They've been pestering a lot. Not another penny.
Stop using Wikipedia another brainwashing site. Delete.
Knowing your enemy is the key to winning battles.
Wikipedia = Free, do it yourself disinformation.
MSGA!
*starts embroidering ball caps all over*
Expecting a politician to make anything great - except for the national debt, and the totalitarian state - is barrelling head-long on a hiding to nothing. But I have a hat here that I will gladly eat, plus all the humble pie you can bake for me, if what you say turns out.
You got me with the title. I burst out laughing. I can see the next summit with Milei and Trump being wall to wall Interesting. Bravo to the argentines for throwing off the shackles that have ruined their amazing country
Would it be entertaining and productive, or would it be like Simón Bolívar and José de San Martin meeting at Guayaquil?
(I think Bolivar was so obsessed with holding what he had, he refused to accept a "multipolar" South America that San Martín espoused, and set the stage for the failures he later predicted in his final letter to General Juan José Flores, as he lay dying, waiting for the ship to take him into exile.)
I salute you, sir. You have provided rare perspective, indeed.
You know much more than I know about South American history.
Is he eligible here for 2024???
Is he eligible in Canada for 2025 ?
May it be so!!!
Wait, wait, wait. How can we know Milei actually won the election since it was just held yesterday? Don't we have to wait weeks to get a final outcome in a presidential election? I was told ad nauseam expecting election results within 24 hours was racist or something.
How could they possibly have counted the millions of mail in ballots already?!
They hate Milei because they love authoritarian control.
Well, in that case, they will hate him, and love his administration. Win-win.
Jeez, I agree with everything he's accused of...
It should be used as a cue card for all the dumb Republicans to refer to when they're asked what they stand for.
Assuming they can read.
I'm not in favor of selling human organs !
Did I read this correctly.
He said he is not willing to go into that business, but he did feel it was an option, just not something the government should either support or reject out of hand. He echoes Rothbard and the anarcho-capitalists here: markets solve most problems.
Yeah, what if he said cat organs?
Yeah. Wondering about that too.
Yes you did!
But as for human children, there's quite a kind-hearted discount if you buy by the dozen.
What a bonkers-mad world we live in, what barmy-mad times...
I believe we have a place in our administration for you.
*proffers Laurel, and Hardy Handshake*
Pi Guy 2024: I probably won't make $#!+ any worse!
RNC Chairman?? 🙏🏻🇺🇸
That dude would be the most eligible bachelor on these boards!
We should invite him to our next Smoked Pork-a-thon. It'll boost the turnout.
I've got a Big Green Egg. We can make plenty.
LOL! And YES! Someone on twitter said he looked like a missing Beatle! :) I wonder if he has an older brother!
He looks like Robin Williams joined the Beatles.
Haha! I loved Robin Williams! I think they suicided him too! He exposed the pedophilia taking place in the Catholic Church with his comedy. God bless him!
I love Tucker's interview with him a few months ago. https://twitter.com/simonateba/status/1726382993340600499
Love everything he says, except that I am not a fan of Trump.
My BIL and SIL had breakfast with DT during his run in 2016. He was lovely, charming, funny, gracious -- all those things. His public persona is just that - a persona. But his beliefs in the goodness of the USA and his personal humanity are the real deal. And the trajectory of his administration before the WEF controllers unleashed the covid scam on us was unparalleled prosperity for everyone in our country.
I don't like his public style. But I believe we absolutely need his grit and fire to help lift us out of this cesspool we now inhabit. He's not a hero, and I don't do hero worship. But he is a fighter, and we need that.
I voted for Trump in 2016 because I loved how he verbally bitch slapped all the media idiots. Then I voted for him again in 2020 because of what he had DONE in the past 4 years. I don't care if he's Mr. Nice in public or not, I care what he actually does.
So true!
We can have someone else with grit then. He pushed Operation Warp Speed and is very crude. Not a Presidential figure to me. The President of Argentina is setting a great example of what it means to have character, integrity, and courage. He is no pushover and is extremely intelligent, besides being well rounded and versed in many topics.
Trump has never appealed to me, Biden either. I did not vote for either. I align with RFK, Jr. He is a fighter and has been fighting corruption and the corporate world for decades. He speaks on topics that other are afraid to even touch. Cowards!
To each his own. People are obsessed with Trump and I think he is part of the grand charade in politics!
I think "obsessed with Trump" is a talking point. Perhaps "obsessed with what Trump promotes and fights for: Making America Great Again" is a better understanding of why people want him to win. The crowds at his rallies chant "U.S.A.," not "Trump."
I don't see anyone fire-tested who could represent Constitutional liberty-loving people quite as effectively. Vivek Ramaswamy has lightning fast wit and says the right things and is a rock star at bitch-slapping stupid narrative pushers - but who is he? A brilliant guy who created a Pharma company. Tulsi Gabbard just called for a requirement that all people on social media must give their real names - no anonymous posting. If that isn't chilling, I don't know what is. She also worked very hard as a governor to embed China into her state economy. Ron DeSantis is a rock-star governor. If he could galvanize enough people to make a go of it and win the GOP nomination, I'd vote for him. But I haven't seen him doing that. There's no other Republican who's even a consideration. And I'm aligned 100% with RFK jr on vaccine as murder weapons, but he is a Democrat through and through in all other respects.
RFK Jr. is running as an Independent. In any case, I have learned that nothing happens in politics that isn't planned, so we shall see. I don't believe that the powers that should not be, will let anyone make a difference, because they are going ahead full throttle with their 2030 agenda. I have lost all faith in Presidential elections. I think Trump is the false prophet and controlled opposition. It's all theater. I hope I am wrong.
Just sent this to my state rep. It's relevant. These huge wins will mostly not be covered in US news. But they are important for people to know about. Grass roots commitment can win.
Staunch Nationalist Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom has won a massive victory in the Dutch elections, winning more seats than any other party. Farmers fought back and won!! https://x.com/TheRealKeean/status/1727435517745311912?s=20
Republican Celeste Maloy wins special house election in Utah. Her entry will raise House Republicans’ narrow majority by one seat, to 222 members against the Democrats’ 213 members. https://thedailybs.com/2023/11/21/republican-celeste-maloy-wins-special-house-election-in-utah/
Argentina has elected Javier Milei as president. He hates socialism, communism, and leftism. Loves Trump. https://x.com/ImMeme0/status/1726381628803424435?s=20
Another CO2 pipeline company has “paused’ its juggernaut, at least for the time being. Wolf Carbon Solutions moved to withdraw its carbon dioxide pipeline permit application in Illinois on Monday to address concerns identified by state regulators.
https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2023/11/20/wolf-asks-to-withdraw-illinois-pipeline-request-and-refile/
This next one is incredibly sad, and not a political win, but it is surprising as heck that this local news station said the quiet part out loud when a toddler died after getting “well visit” vaccinations. People - not all but some - are starting to see what has been happening to kids at the hands of the ‘healthcare’ industry. https://westchester.news12.com/orange-county-15-month-old-dies-2-days-after-well-visit-vaccinations
Have a blessed Thanksgiving
I hope this is what I think it is: The early stages of the undoing of the leftist insanity of the last 10 years.
Oh, they aren’t going away, but they are going into the box for a while.
"proposes to legalize the sale of human organs"? What the hell is that all about?
In a truly libertarian society one ought to be able to voluntarily sell, say, one kidney, to the highest bidder. Also one ought to be able to sell usable organs harvested at death rather than give them away for free. In other words, make them an asset of the estate. I wouldn’t do it myself but it ought to be a choice. My body my choice. I totally understand this position. Also legalizing it removes the black market and all the evil that goes with that.
one is allowed to sell hair for wigs or even sell blood.
why is a kidney any different? it's perfectly legal to donate one. but you cannot sell it? why? if you do not own your kidney, just who does?
interesting. I get it. but i think that the pressure to flip the switch from life support to sustaining a body for organ harvest is already moving too quickly in the US. So with the ability to sell your own organs you open up an avenue for death by doctor to sell your own organs. ugh i am uneasy with the organ harvesting/donation industry and feel like we've already descended far on the slippery slope of focusing more on the lives to be saved rather than the current life using organs. i'm not opposed to transplants and i know they save lives. its complicated!
"its complicated!"
"There are no solutions. Only tradeoffs."
- Seriously Smart Guy Thomas Sowell
amazingly enough, human organ sales are "illegal" in the US.
Because of that I am unwilling to agree that banning a practice makes human lives that much more sacrosanct.
It might, just might, make it harder since if the family gets a price for the organ, and there has to be a written contract, there is less diffuse responsibility. Diffuse responsibility is the root of many horrors in the modern world.
and if you're unvaccinated, they won't even let you donate your own kidney to save your own son!
The commodification of organs for sale feeds right into the transgender/transhumanist corporate game that reduces human beings into parts where we all become interchangeable units of monetized flesh. This is a dangerous road and it will not end well for anyone.
I would object much less to transvestitism, the whole spectrum from dudes wearing dresses to chicks having addadictomy procedures, if they just weren't trying to force _me_ to PAY FOR THEIR FETISHES! and then to pretend they're the Sum of Their Parts. [edited to be replete]
I don't foresee any amongst the Monokidneyed trying to use the force of government to make me pretend that they have two kidneys.
Consenting adults, and all that.
* edit H/T Andy
Suggested edit: "I would object much less to the whole spectrum, from dudes wearing dresses to chicks having addadictomy procedures, if they just weren't trying to force _me_ to PAY FOR THEIR FETISHES!"
And thanks for "addadictomy procedure". I look forward to sharing with my bride. Giggles may ensue.
"if they just weren't trying to force _me_ to PAY FOR THEIR FETISHES!"
That's a good suggestion. I shall update my comment for repleteness.
"addadictomy"
*snicker*
Well. Lets see. What about when the State is the legal guardian of a child having determined the parents of said child are negligent because they wont allow their child to “transition”? Then new state guardian determines that it is in the best interest of the child to not only be castrated but perhaps the sale of their left kidney might offset costs of castration surgery for the state.
Thats a simple solution, you must be legally an adult and pass a psychological evaluation deeming you fit to make such a decision on your own behalf.
Yeah. I agree in theory , however we have govts currently allowing 16 year olds to have radical mastectomies on healthy breast tissue because they “know” they were born in the wrong body . No adult needed. The convention on humans rights of the child would happily see age of consent be as good as gone so that children can “ do as they will” becuz “freedom” . No worries for child exploitation there. Furthermore who designs the Psych eval? The same people who insist that men can be women and vice versa? I mean this entire scheme can go sideways seven ways from Sunday. Trust the Science and Govt Officials tho’ ammirite?
Another solution: remove the State from the/all decision-making.
Good grief ... what a f#%king mess ...
I still disagree !
there would surely be unintended consequences.
A very bad idea.
Everything else - count me in agreement.
"there would surely be unintended consequences."
There always are. In medicine they refer to this as a Side Effect.
Sometimes a side effect becomes even more useful than the originally intended purpose. This is typically seen as a win for everyone.
No one is forcing you to sell your organs *Homer voice* so far.
Allowing it can put the pressure on, though. What about someone homeless, or in debt? Nobody needs charity, so long as they have a spare kidney to sell. You can have the loan, but you have to put your body parts on the line as surety. If you can't pay it back, the creditors get them. Just confirm that you have read the 528 pages of legalities covering the loan by clicking on the "I agree" button.
By the same token, one ought to be allowed to sell oneself into slavery, and that's been done in societies throughout history. That would give us a slave population as an institution, and anyone convicted of a crime or captive in war could be added to it as a matter of course. The status could even be hereditary if we understand that a slave's gametes and reproductive organs belong to his or her owner along with the rest of them.
As slaves, they all go where the owner wants them. No more pesky rules against immigration to keep foreigners out. The wealthy can import their no-wage workers from all over the world, and bring them into your community as their private property. When they're eventually freed, they're here, and pretty much equal to you and me.
Those are some of the consequences, unintended or not, that I would foresee as following shortly on the legalization of the selling of body parts and self.
Agree, Snowin. I can't visualize ANY set of regulations that can possibly protect the stupid, the brainwashed, or the clinically insane from themselves - or from the predators and parasites that prey on them. Every code of laws, every compilation of regulations, in human history has eventually been subverted to benefit the dishonest, or the powerful.
Any framework put in place to support commercialization of human organ sales will inevitably be subject to "market forces". Which, given human history, will re-introduce slavery to what's left of "The West". After all, in the last three years, the forces of evil have successfully suspended most of the constitution, virtually eliminated the southern border, and hired tens of thousands of armed tax collectors, whilst working to render the armed forces ineffective. All in the name of "public health".
Imagine a future in which the dystopian stories of human animals raised for their organs in "organ farms", or felons, (or the destitute), are forced to "donate" their organs to "repay their debts".
to exist in a society where people are desperate enough to cut themselves open and pull out an organ for money is not one I want to live in. we can imagine and build a better world than that. the human body is incredibly intelligent and we owe it far more respect and care.
as long as someone doesn't decide to harvest yours while you're still alive. but what you said makes sense
Canada are thinking about it. They want to remove organs before the person dies then give them potassium chloride to finish them off. That way the organs are in top top fashion for sale. I expect there will be a price premium for the 'harvested before death' variety.
yes, i read something about that yesterday and posted it on. i'm sure that the money won't go to the heirs, but rather to Trudeau's vacation fund
Again Monty Python for the win! Meaning of Life Part V.
Libertarians hold Self-ownership to be the highest of all ideals and a miniarchist government Of the Little People, By the Little People, For the Little People should enforce violations of their Property Rights - Life, in this case, but for all violations of property as well - but also permit transactions between consenting parties.
beat me to it while I was typing. go ninja Nina!
Can see a lot of homeless people going missing in the near future.....
Maybe, but I don't think so. The vast majority of people don't have a domicile are addicts and alcoholics.
They are already near the bottom of the list for getting organ transplants.
It's not likely that many people would want an organ from someone who has been trashing their own body for years, even decades.
I'm an alcoholic with 3 years of recovery that took 15 years of trying to get those. I've been homeless and am quite familiar with that sad way of being.
The comment more reflects on how low people who are addicted to money will go. I'll sure the esky would read 'perfectly good liver'.
I can empathise, ex military so drinking heavily has been a large part of my life too. I did use it as my go to for not having the death shot though, 'I don't need it, a virus couldn't possibly live in my body, it's too toxic'. Never went down well....🤔
That last bit was a quite common refrain in many meetings I attended early on in the covid days. "If everything else I've put in my body didn't kill me, I'm not worried about some virus." Lol
Thanks for your candid and germane rejoinder, and for providing your real-world perspective.
Congratulations for surviving, for persevering, and I wish you the very best.
It's a little annoying that there isn't also an "I agree" button to click. I agree with your comment, though I don't at all like the implications.
Hahaha. Good idea. Could read 'I somewhat agree however, I have neglected to bring my fireproof suit to the chat'.
Oh, and that's a sensational and appurtenant improvement to my suggestion!
I'll bet your fireproof suit has received more than average roastings these past few years, and even though it might look like its been in the wars, I hope it'll continue to keep you uncharred for as long as you'll need it!
currently the only folks making (tons and tons of) legal money off of human organ "donations" are the hospitals and chiurgeons who remove and install them. there's a ban on individuals being able to sell their own parts on the white market.
of course there's the burgeoning black market, but the point to legalizing sale would be to reduce incentive to using the black market.
Tissue banks. Do you think they’re called banks for nothing?
banks relying on "free" donations.
free as in the donors/families get bupkis, but money bloody well changes hands when those organs move around.
"the point to legalizing sale would be to reduce incentive to using the black market."
Can't help but notice that approach has worked really well for drugs, and poverty, and al of the other "wars on ...."
As long as we're winning, Andy, that's all that matters.
What you are describing is conventionally straightforward, and within the established context, I agree with you. However, black markets exist and are perpetuated primarily for the intelligence community to transact and launder black budget financing.
Unauthorized (untaxed) trading is simple, unadulterated trading and it is how people would transact were they not by parasitized government and encumbered by government intrusion.
Got to make room in the prisons somehow, and also cut down on welfare, maybe?
Since libertarians prefer people starving to having tax-funded basic welfare, allowing the poor to sell their bodies even more so than now makes perfect sense in that perspective.
The US is the OPEC of plasma (we export it) precisely because we pay folks to donate...why we don't do the same for blood, etc. is the real question
I automatically read your comment to be describing a highly-ionized gas consisting of charged particles, and was taken aback because I didn't even realize there was a market for that kind of thing. It was only when I reached the word 'blood' that I finally realized what you really intended, and I did feel a little silly, to be sure, but only in the kind of way a physical scientist might.
Ha! I see that now. Unintentional opacity, is my default.
On the contrary, what you wrote was completely clear. Instead it's a feint and fading hope I have that maybe some day we might have favourable topics that will bring us together instead of the impending collapse, and I suppose that hope keeps popping its little head up at the most unlikely of times.
Yeah. That one should not be pursued.
I agree. But the 'like' is really for your quizzical handle.
Wondering the same!
Yeah. I had to read that a couple of times
Interesting how populists are labeled far-right while warmongering imperialists are considered the "center." 🤔
Something something Everyone to the Right of Stalin.
Totalitarianism of every stripe is repulsive.
Government of every stripe is repulsive.
Sorry for hijacking your comment, which is actually a very good one, and please feel welcome to disagree, but I simply do not know of a single government in living memory that was truly of the people, for the people, by the people.
#EndTheFed
you left out the best line:
"Sale of children
When questioned on the topic of selling children, Milei initially responded ambiguously but later clarified his opposition, stating, "Obviously, I do not agree with the sale of children."[160]"
What are the odds that "Do you support the sale of children?" will be a question in the 2028 US presidential debates? Possibly worded differently, or course, probably with a "to minor attracted persons who can't conceive" framing, but that general theme.
americans have always supported the sale of children.
I am going to need you to elaborate on that point a little, please.
meow-lei 😆