Most of the Bible is historical fiction and as such it should be in the fiction section of every library and bookstore. If you believe there was an historical Jesus, you can derive something from his teachings, but the book itself is not meant to be taken literally.
There actually is a lot there, and quite a bit of it is literal, is fact. For me, it required study, learned discernment, rebellion and some knocks. But I had to know. Blessed are those that are able to accept it straight up! I could not. I had to work at it, and have had some amazing experiences over 50 years before the day I "got" it. It IS real. God is a Real Thing, and yes, He really did send his only begotten son for us. The Bible is well worth digging into, can be supplemented with history it refers to in passing, and archeology. For thousands of years, Jewish boys had to memorize the first 5 books of the Bible, EXACTLY. Writing and reading couldn't be supported everywhere, but the oral tradition could. When writing and reading was generously supported, things got lax on the memorizing and consequently, there were times the Bible almost was lost (much supplementary writing was lost). Very fascinating stuff. I had to force to the side the conditional constructs that man has put into church and social institutions, the anger and resentment of harms imposed upon me and others, realize it wasn't God harming me, it was Man twisting to suit. The "You HAVE to BELIEVE" to be saved," and do x, y, z ALL the time "OR ELSE." Well, it is rather a gift you can accept if you choose. I had to understand WHAT, WHY and how is it that is true? Turns out to be very freeing. There are some amazing and good people. It is only because of the Judeo-Christians that Western civilization has gained a more humane face generally, and birthed a New Nation, America. Human nature being what it is, it is a constant fight for life, liberty and freedom as God intended and we are in a sad bad place right now. Slavery has never left Africa; Islam, Communism and the evil side of human nature is destroying and debasing everything. It is a war. Oops, I digress and wasn't invited to. I'm just saying, though.
I believe as well. When my father died my kids and I were with him and we experienced something that was NOT of this world and we were not тАЬ GodlyтАЭ at the time. I donтАЩt know what it was but it was profoundly spiritual in nature and since then my doubts have been cast aside. I feel sorry for those who have closed themselves off from these miracles, MY life has more meaning now then ever. One should always be allowed to chose what to believeтАжitтАЩs called freedom and I wonтАЩt allow anyone to take that from me.
I wouldn't say Western Civilization has a more humane face because of judeo-christians or anybody else. America has blood all over its hands. This country is an instigator of wars and coups and killings but we like to think we are The Shining City on the hill. This is a lie that has been told to people who live here and people who want to come here to make them believe that we live in a benevolent nation which we do not. The Bible was written by men not by some God. God was created by man to explain things that man was unable to explain.
No, the U.S is far from perfect. It has had more potential than anywhere though. The political and financial machinery had hijacked reason for indulgence many times. I do believe most countries are worse. Overall, Americans are decent, and generous. Man creates God and gods all the time. I've personally known people from communist countries that got here, and other countries and they seized the opportunities and prospered. The stories former communist country residents told me when I was young, I found out how true they were as I got older. I don't think I can say anything that would convince you to look closer, even though I could pull out many examples to bolster that overall, America is good and Americans are good people. I'm not having to go about fully armed at all times yet. I have no use for 99.8 of politicians and unelected bureaucratic leads. I am beyond disgusted at the facile betrayal by institutions and people as a citizen and personally. I can only share that there really, there is more good and more reality than you feel or experience there is. If there was not things, would have decompensated far more than they have, and true, it might yet. Actually, it is going to decompensate further before it improves. I'm working with others at reversing that tide. We let this get this way. I do see God in details, in the way the physical world works as an example, it is not chance. He gives us free will and oh hell do Humans ever do unthinkable, irrational things to other Humans and animals. Humans are treacherous. I have had myself assessed a few times, to make sure I am not imagining things or having neurons misfire or something. I check out. I don't get everything right all the time, I have a hefty confirmation bias to overcome all the time. I do know that when I feel I am a nail, it is extremely hard to convince myself not everything is a hammer.
I just get tired of Americans feeling so smug and self-righteous all the time and saluting the flag and all the other faux patriotic bullshit. They like to spout support the troops when the troops are in uniform but when those troops are in civilian clothes and have mental and physical debilities and are unhoused, then they really don't give a shit. I don't like comparing this country to other countries. This country was conquered by so called white wealthy European men, and Native Americans were exterminated or put on reservations and Africans were enslaved. That's nothing to crow about. We are a very young species and very immature. Our technological prowess has far outrun our maturity level and that will be our undoing.
Yes, Africans were sold by other Africans. Slave trading is flourishing in Libya, too, since the United States toppled Muammar el-Qaddafi because he wanted to trade oil for gold dinar instead of the U.S. petrodollar and the French franc. He wanted Africa to have its own gold backed currency (the dinar) and he wanted to create an African Central Bank. Qaddafi was attempting to shake off centuries of colonialism. He was murdered by NATO troops for oil, power and money. Read these two articles. They'll provide some clarity.
Well that's your view. Other people have different views. "Adults" discuss their opinions with those who disagree with the aim of understanding them. "Children" dismiss the views of those who have come to a different conclusion without enquiry. There are children and adults on both sides of this particular debate.
Might want to read up on, oh pretty much every civilisation ever except the european ones and our descendants.
You can start by looking up "Tzompantli" and try to find one single thing in all of the history of Europe's peoples that comes even close.
Or you can read up on chinese "justice system" pre-colonisation.
Or any part of Africa really. For an easy start, read "Things fall apart" by Chinua Achebe - a good book, if in fictional format, of traditional tribal structure and culture. Heck, read Achebe's other works too!
Or read the Quoran while remembering that 19 out of 20 moslems hold it as literal truth set above anything else on this planet. Consider the implications of that. While you're doing that, download and read the latest "Arab Youth Survey" and check up on the World Value Survey, lots of good stuff there.
Because the tripe about christianity (and I'm most definitely not christian, never was and never will be) and western civilisation being the bad guy is just that: a load of tripe. It is complete BS from start to finish.
I don't do lesser evilism. This country has blood on its hands and has been involved in some war or other for most of the time it has been in existence. Yeah, other countries might be more overtly authoritarian, but this country could give those a run for their money after the lockdowns, forced masking, forced jabs (or get fired) and non stop propaganda pumped out by the Mighty Wurlitzer for the past 2+ years. This country NEVER lived up to its promise and especially squandered the good will other countries felt toward it after WW 2. We could have been the benevolent nation instead of the global hegemon.
"I don't do lesser evilism" is irrelevant. Christianity is not a "lesser evil". Christianity is a straight up "good". It's not evil in any way at all.
To the extent that people within a society follow Christianity (actually follow it, not simply profess to follow it) that society is better.
There never has been yet a nation where everyone practised Christianity, and perhaps there never will be. But societies which adopt the guiding principles of Christianity as their cultural norms will always be less evil than if that same set of people did not. That perhaps is where "less evil" comes in, but it's not just "less evil". Adopting Christianity as a cultural norm results in not just "less evil", but "minimal evil" for the nation or group in question.
Remember utopia does not exist (Utopia is a Satanic deceit - he deludes his followers into an attempt to create it knowing that this always and inevitably instead creates dystopia). And therefore "minimal evil" is the best possible outcome. So Christianity, and a Christian nation, is not just "less evil", it is actually the best possible outcome both for the individual and the group.
I said thinking there was an afterlife with a heaven or hell was childish thinking and in my opinion it is. It is the same as believing in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus or the tooth fairy or any of the many Greek or Egyptian or Sumerian etc gods or goddesses.
I know what you said. You accused her of childish beliefs. You then acted all upset when she responded emotionally.
Also if you truly think it is reasonable to compare belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ with belief in the Easter Bunny then I don't think your own reasoning qualifies as anything other than childish itself.
I'm comparing the belief in any god with the childishness of believing in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, etc. But hey, you believe what you want to believe. Whatever gets you through the day and night.
So, you think I'm raping your mind? How about reading the Bible from cover to cover and analyzing it. A friend of mine did this and he was a devout Christian and a deacon in his church. Most people don't read the Bible from cover to cover. When he did, he discovered that most of it was a complete farce and an allegory and it was not to be taken literally. He is now an atheist. I think you protest too much. I think your worldview has been shaken up and you don't like the feeling. So, you resort to attacking me because you don't know what else to do. That's pretty sad.
You are attacking someoneтАЩs belief. THAT is personal. You must acknowledge that. This is why we are in this mess. Let people have an opinion. Enough. Turn around, walk away. I respect MargieтАЩs opinion and I respect yours. Bye.
thank you sirka, for running interference for me, if it is me you're defending. i respect Margie Chism's opinion too. kris has me confused with her so he's coming after me. he just won't stop.
My daughter and I were talking about this the other day. DoesnтАЩt matter WHAT it is these days everyone needs to tell the other they are WRONG or whatever. If it isnтАЩt hurting anyone then who cares. Leave them alone. ItтАЩs all we want: to be left alone.
I'm not going after anyone. As I said earlier, everybody has an opinion. You're entitled to yours. Margie C is entitled to hers and I'm entitled to mine. I don't need anyone running interference for me. I can take up for myself. And I am a she not a he.
I wasn't attacking anyone. I have an opinion. Margie has an opinion. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one and most of the time they stink. You don't need to run interference for either one of us. Feel free to walk away. That's your prerogative.
that's nice, your friend read something and told you he thinks of it. guess what, i'm not any kind of religious or believer in anything but my best friends are and i respect them and i respect and love whatever thought processes or whatever pathways brought them to believe and think as they do. I don't arrogantly stand above and call them childish just because i don't see it their way.
I'm not the enemy, Margie. I didn't willfully murder anyone as Gates and Fauci did. So save your righteous anger for those two along with many others. You were the one who brought up Revelations. Evidently you have read Revelations and agree with what is prophesized there. I do not. I think it is childish to believe in any sorts of gods. We should have evolved beyond that by now.
Most of the Bible is historical fiction and as such it should be in the fiction section of every library and bookstore. If you believe there was an historical Jesus, you can derive something from his teachings, but the book itself is not meant to be taken literally.
There actually is a lot there, and quite a bit of it is literal, is fact. For me, it required study, learned discernment, rebellion and some knocks. But I had to know. Blessed are those that are able to accept it straight up! I could not. I had to work at it, and have had some amazing experiences over 50 years before the day I "got" it. It IS real. God is a Real Thing, and yes, He really did send his only begotten son for us. The Bible is well worth digging into, can be supplemented with history it refers to in passing, and archeology. For thousands of years, Jewish boys had to memorize the first 5 books of the Bible, EXACTLY. Writing and reading couldn't be supported everywhere, but the oral tradition could. When writing and reading was generously supported, things got lax on the memorizing and consequently, there were times the Bible almost was lost (much supplementary writing was lost). Very fascinating stuff. I had to force to the side the conditional constructs that man has put into church and social institutions, the anger and resentment of harms imposed upon me and others, realize it wasn't God harming me, it was Man twisting to suit. The "You HAVE to BELIEVE" to be saved," and do x, y, z ALL the time "OR ELSE." Well, it is rather a gift you can accept if you choose. I had to understand WHAT, WHY and how is it that is true? Turns out to be very freeing. There are some amazing and good people. It is only because of the Judeo-Christians that Western civilization has gained a more humane face generally, and birthed a New Nation, America. Human nature being what it is, it is a constant fight for life, liberty and freedom as God intended and we are in a sad bad place right now. Slavery has never left Africa; Islam, Communism and the evil side of human nature is destroying and debasing everything. It is a war. Oops, I digress and wasn't invited to. I'm just saying, though.
I believe as well. When my father died my kids and I were with him and we experienced something that was NOT of this world and we were not тАЬ GodlyтАЭ at the time. I donтАЩt know what it was but it was profoundly spiritual in nature and since then my doubts have been cast aside. I feel sorry for those who have closed themselves off from these miracles, MY life has more meaning now then ever. One should always be allowed to chose what to believeтАжitтАЩs called freedom and I wonтАЩt allow anyone to take that from me.
I wouldn't say Western Civilization has a more humane face because of judeo-christians or anybody else. America has blood all over its hands. This country is an instigator of wars and coups and killings but we like to think we are The Shining City on the hill. This is a lie that has been told to people who live here and people who want to come here to make them believe that we live in a benevolent nation which we do not. The Bible was written by men not by some God. God was created by man to explain things that man was unable to explain.
If there is no God there is no hope.
No, the U.S is far from perfect. It has had more potential than anywhere though. The political and financial machinery had hijacked reason for indulgence many times. I do believe most countries are worse. Overall, Americans are decent, and generous. Man creates God and gods all the time. I've personally known people from communist countries that got here, and other countries and they seized the opportunities and prospered. The stories former communist country residents told me when I was young, I found out how true they were as I got older. I don't think I can say anything that would convince you to look closer, even though I could pull out many examples to bolster that overall, America is good and Americans are good people. I'm not having to go about fully armed at all times yet. I have no use for 99.8 of politicians and unelected bureaucratic leads. I am beyond disgusted at the facile betrayal by institutions and people as a citizen and personally. I can only share that there really, there is more good and more reality than you feel or experience there is. If there was not things, would have decompensated far more than they have, and true, it might yet. Actually, it is going to decompensate further before it improves. I'm working with others at reversing that tide. We let this get this way. I do see God in details, in the way the physical world works as an example, it is not chance. He gives us free will and oh hell do Humans ever do unthinkable, irrational things to other Humans and animals. Humans are treacherous. I have had myself assessed a few times, to make sure I am not imagining things or having neurons misfire or something. I check out. I don't get everything right all the time, I have a hefty confirmation bias to overcome all the time. I do know that when I feel I am a nail, it is extremely hard to convince myself not everything is a hammer.
I just get tired of Americans feeling so smug and self-righteous all the time and saluting the flag and all the other faux patriotic bullshit. They like to spout support the troops when the troops are in uniform but when those troops are in civilian clothes and have mental and physical debilities and are unhoused, then they really don't give a shit. I don't like comparing this country to other countries. This country was conquered by so called white wealthy European men, and Native Americans were exterminated or put on reservations and Africans were enslaved. That's nothing to crow about. We are a very young species and very immature. Our technological prowess has far outrun our maturity level and that will be our undoing.
Africans were sold by other africans, and it was white men who put a stop to the slave trade.
Only now, the slave trade is back with a vengeance, being perpetrated just as it has been for the last 2 500 years by africans and middle easterners.
Read up on the berber pirates and african slave hunters raiding coastal Europe well into the nineteenth century.
Yes, Africans were sold by other Africans. Slave trading is flourishing in Libya, too, since the United States toppled Muammar el-Qaddafi because he wanted to trade oil for gold dinar instead of the U.S. petrodollar and the French franc. He wanted Africa to have its own gold backed currency (the dinar) and he wanted to create an African Central Bank. Qaddafi was attempting to shake off centuries of colonialism. He was murdered by NATO troops for oil, power and money. Read these two articles. They'll provide some clarity.
https://www.zinnedproject.org/if-we-knew-our-history/rethinkin-lincoln-on-the-150th-birthday-of-the-emancipation-proclamation/
https://iai.tv/articles/why-they-killed-gaddafi-auid-1757
Well that's your view. Other people have different views. "Adults" discuss their opinions with those who disagree with the aim of understanding them. "Children" dismiss the views of those who have come to a different conclusion without enquiry. There are children and adults on both sides of this particular debate.
Might want to read up on, oh pretty much every civilisation ever except the european ones and our descendants.
You can start by looking up "Tzompantli" and try to find one single thing in all of the history of Europe's peoples that comes even close.
Or you can read up on chinese "justice system" pre-colonisation.
Or any part of Africa really. For an easy start, read "Things fall apart" by Chinua Achebe - a good book, if in fictional format, of traditional tribal structure and culture. Heck, read Achebe's other works too!
Or read the Quoran while remembering that 19 out of 20 moslems hold it as literal truth set above anything else on this planet. Consider the implications of that. While you're doing that, download and read the latest "Arab Youth Survey" and check up on the World Value Survey, lots of good stuff there.
Because the tripe about christianity (and I'm most definitely not christian, never was and never will be) and western civilisation being the bad guy is just that: a load of tripe. It is complete BS from start to finish.
I don't do lesser evilism. This country has blood on its hands and has been involved in some war or other for most of the time it has been in existence. Yeah, other countries might be more overtly authoritarian, but this country could give those a run for their money after the lockdowns, forced masking, forced jabs (or get fired) and non stop propaganda pumped out by the Mighty Wurlitzer for the past 2+ years. This country NEVER lived up to its promise and especially squandered the good will other countries felt toward it after WW 2. We could have been the benevolent nation instead of the global hegemon.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-the-time-222-out-of-239-years-since-1776/5565946
"I don't do lesser evilism" is irrelevant. Christianity is not a "lesser evil". Christianity is a straight up "good". It's not evil in any way at all.
To the extent that people within a society follow Christianity (actually follow it, not simply profess to follow it) that society is better.
There never has been yet a nation where everyone practised Christianity, and perhaps there never will be. But societies which adopt the guiding principles of Christianity as their cultural norms will always be less evil than if that same set of people did not. That perhaps is where "less evil" comes in, but it's not just "less evil". Adopting Christianity as a cultural norm results in not just "less evil", but "minimal evil" for the nation or group in question.
Remember utopia does not exist (Utopia is a Satanic deceit - he deludes his followers into an attempt to create it knowing that this always and inevitably instead creates dystopia). And therefore "minimal evil" is the best possible outcome. So Christianity, and a Christian nation, is not just "less evil", it is actually the best possible outcome both for the individual and the group.
you're such a know-it-all
Don't resort to ad hominem attacks.
Why are you so bitter? Maybe without God life is bitter. After all, youтАЩre just a bag of chemicals, meaningless, soon forgotten. So sad.
I'm not bitter. I'm a realist.
Hmmm. Didn't you first describe her as "childish"?
I said thinking there was an afterlife with a heaven or hell was childish thinking and in my opinion it is. It is the same as believing in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus or the tooth fairy or any of the many Greek or Egyptian or Sumerian etc gods or goddesses.
I know what you said. You accused her of childish beliefs. You then acted all upset when she responded emotionally.
Also if you truly think it is reasonable to compare belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ with belief in the Easter Bunny then I don't think your own reasoning qualifies as anything other than childish itself.
I'm comparing the belief in any god with the childishness of believing in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, etc. But hey, you believe what you want to believe. Whatever gets you through the day and night.
i'll resort to whatever i feel like.
Lol! Sounds to me like your world view is being threatened so you're having a tantrum. I'm not the enemy.
oh shut your pie hole, mind rapist.
So, you think I'm raping your mind? How about reading the Bible from cover to cover and analyzing it. A friend of mine did this and he was a devout Christian and a deacon in his church. Most people don't read the Bible from cover to cover. When he did, he discovered that most of it was a complete farce and an allegory and it was not to be taken literally. He is now an atheist. I think you protest too much. I think your worldview has been shaken up and you don't like the feeling. So, you resort to attacking me because you don't know what else to do. That's pretty sad.
You are attacking someoneтАЩs belief. THAT is personal. You must acknowledge that. This is why we are in this mess. Let people have an opinion. Enough. Turn around, walk away. I respect MargieтАЩs opinion and I respect yours. Bye.
thank you sirka, for running interference for me, if it is me you're defending. i respect Margie Chism's opinion too. kris has me confused with her so he's coming after me. he just won't stop.
My daughter and I were talking about this the other day. DoesnтАЩt matter WHAT it is these days everyone needs to tell the other they are WRONG or whatever. If it isnтАЩt hurting anyone then who cares. Leave them alone. ItтАЩs all we want: to be left alone.
I'm not going after anyone. As I said earlier, everybody has an opinion. You're entitled to yours. Margie C is entitled to hers and I'm entitled to mine. I don't need anyone running interference for me. I can take up for myself. And I am a she not a he.
I wasn't attacking anyone. I have an opinion. Margie has an opinion. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one and most of the time they stink. You don't need to run interference for either one of us. Feel free to walk away. That's your prerogative.
that's nice, your friend read something and told you he thinks of it. guess what, i'm not any kind of religious or believer in anything but my best friends are and i respect them and i respect and love whatever thought processes or whatever pathways brought them to believe and think as they do. I don't arrogantly stand above and call them childish just because i don't see it their way.
I'm not the enemy, Margie. I didn't willfully murder anyone as Gates and Fauci did. So save your righteous anger for those two along with many others. You were the one who brought up Revelations. Evidently you have read Revelations and agree with what is prophesized there. I do not. I think it is childish to believe in any sorts of gods. We should have evolved beyond that by now.
since when did i "bring up" revelations, as interesting as that subject is. wtf.never said a word about it. get your fax straight.