As an English woman, I have to say we call Indians and Pakistanis wogs. Western Oriental Gentlemen. ‘Wog’ is very much verboten here in rioting U.K., however. Doesn’t nigger come from the romantic languages word for black? I’ve never heard the idea that it comes from Nigerian - I think most people who owned or knew of slaves would have no idea and would care even less which particular African county the blacks came from. Was that country even called Nigeria in slaving days? I really don’t know.
I want to know why it's OK to call them black in English but not black in Spanish. I have honestly never understood that. As a POC myself (which designation I detest), I find some of this racial stuff just mind boggling.
But I am kinda different. I actually believe that white is a color!
My father was in the army for the whole of WW2 and was in India, the Middle East, South Africa and Italy. He called brown people wogs, as did all the adult men I knew as a child (I’m 62). I think the word isn’t used much now, it’s very offensive I suppose - at least as offensive as nigger, I would imagine. Italians were called wops; my father loved the Italian prisoners of war, and learnt Italian from them. He wasn’t at all racist and tried to help the very poor Pakistani men who worked in the slaughter houses in our hometown by giving them our grown-out-of clothes for their children. I will always remember him talking about one of these men, ‘poor Ali,’ with great compassion. This was in the late 1960s; Ali’s descendants still wear Pakistani dress and still live in self-imposed segregation; since around 2000 the women have started to wear Arab-Muslim dress, head to toe black, even face covering, rather than the colourful saris they wore back in the 60s.
Yea, it is a bit frustrating how normal short names for groups, which are usually not inherently offensive, drift into being considered offensive over time for seemingly no other reason than someone used it in a negative context once.
Derives from negro, from “negroid” the old timey Latin term used for African looking races, as I understand it. Western Europeans use Latin sources words all the time for things, along with Greek.
Sure; negro. Doesn't explain "nigger". I'll stick with my original reasoning. Also, I'm not sure how influential europe was to 18th century america. Steam shortened travel to under 20 days one way in the early 1800s, but that is still a long voyage.
The various Englishes did diverge a lot since the 1500’s, but many standard practices remains, such as the educated and elite classes learning and using Latin and to a lesser extent Greek. Latin was the language of science until the 20th century.
If you say “negro” out loud with an exaggerated southern US accent (like you might see in an early 20th century western) you start to hear why the pronunciation shift works. Compare to how Nigeria is pronounced, with the French g as in garage. That hard g stop is in negro but not Niger.
It also stems in English more from black than the country; the Brits seemed to use the same word for Indians as well, not just Nigerians or Africans.
As an English woman, I have to say we call Indians and Pakistanis wogs. Western Oriental Gentlemen. ‘Wog’ is very much verboten here in rioting U.K., however. Doesn’t nigger come from the romantic languages word for black? I’ve never heard the idea that it comes from Nigerian - I think most people who owned or knew of slaves would have no idea and would care even less which particular African county the blacks came from. Was that country even called Nigeria in slaving days? I really don’t know.
I want to know why it's OK to call them black in English but not black in Spanish. I have honestly never understood that. As a POC myself (which designation I detest), I find some of this racial stuff just mind boggling.
But I am kinda different. I actually believe that white is a color!
Sorry, I meant in the 19th century, not current day, but neglected to say so. Never heard wog though… I had mostly come across “Paki”.
My father was in the army for the whole of WW2 and was in India, the Middle East, South Africa and Italy. He called brown people wogs, as did all the adult men I knew as a child (I’m 62). I think the word isn’t used much now, it’s very offensive I suppose - at least as offensive as nigger, I would imagine. Italians were called wops; my father loved the Italian prisoners of war, and learnt Italian from them. He wasn’t at all racist and tried to help the very poor Pakistani men who worked in the slaughter houses in our hometown by giving them our grown-out-of clothes for their children. I will always remember him talking about one of these men, ‘poor Ali,’ with great compassion. This was in the late 1960s; Ali’s descendants still wear Pakistani dress and still live in self-imposed segregation; since around 2000 the women have started to wear Arab-Muslim dress, head to toe black, even face covering, rather than the colourful saris they wore back in the 60s.
Yea, it is a bit frustrating how normal short names for groups, which are usually not inherently offensive, drift into being considered offensive over time for seemingly no other reason than someone used it in a negative context once.
Originally derives from the Latin word for black. Has a deep, and DARK history.
Why would English speakers use a Spanish word when they could just say, "black"?
Derives from negro, from “negroid” the old timey Latin term used for African looking races, as I understand it. Western Europeans use Latin sources words all the time for things, along with Greek.
Sure; negro. Doesn't explain "nigger". I'll stick with my original reasoning. Also, I'm not sure how influential europe was to 18th century america. Steam shortened travel to under 20 days one way in the early 1800s, but that is still a long voyage.
The various Englishes did diverge a lot since the 1500’s, but many standard practices remains, such as the educated and elite classes learning and using Latin and to a lesser extent Greek. Latin was the language of science until the 20th century.
If you say “negro” out loud with an exaggerated southern US accent (like you might see in an early 20th century western) you start to hear why the pronunciation shift works. Compare to how Nigeria is pronounced, with the French g as in garage. That hard g stop is in negro but not Niger.
Good point.