I find it fascinating how convoluted the US electoral system is. In Australia it’s simple and easy to register and vote. We have an well funded independent Electoral Commission that runs all our federal elections and referendums it’s not controversial, mail in ballots are easy and secure. Voting is compulsory (the horror). In theory if you really don’t want to vote it’s a $20 fine or you can just mail in the ballot paper with a dick drawn on it to get your name marked off the role (the dick party is very popular here in Australia). Bet you can’t draw a dick on your ballot with your high tech voting machines. 😀
With as commie as your govt there has become I don't think I would hold up the voting process as something to be proud of. After the dick moves they have been pulling for near 3 years now it seems like some people would want to elect less dickhead politicians but I bet you end up with the same crop of dickheads as usual. Then everyone in unison says "I guess more dickheads are what we wanted then!" and go happily marching off to covid camp again.
Also, they’re our equivalent of the Republican Party. They got voted out in a landslide and now the real commies the Labor Party (Democrats) are in charge.
That's cool he could have taken up his dispute with the court of disputed returns. It was landslide the votes weren't even close. Was that in Vice, if so, they're a pretty woke low circulation publication pandering to there readership by trying to portray the right as a bunch of loonies. Didn't make it onto my radar at the time. Just my guess.
I just thought it was interesting in light of what you said about it being simple, etc. It sounds as if there might be as much controversy in Australia as in the good ol US. I like the Southpark cartoon take: "who do you want to vote for, the turd sandwich or the douche bag?" I'm enjoying listening to a novel called "Nine Perfect Strangers" by Liane Moriarty who lives in Sydney. Have you read her?
So a few points of fact of which you may be unaware.
In no state in the USA is it difficult to register to vote. In most states you can do it on-line, at any post office, or many other ways. In most volunteers canvas door to door before elections registering voters. In some states, including California which represents over 10% of the voters in national elections, every person who applies for a drivers license or ID is automatically registered to vote. It is so easy we don't even check if the registered person is a US citizen, a legal requirement to vote in this state!
A single entity in control of elections is a single point of failure and corruption. History has shown, many times, this is catastrophic. Historical fact. Every single time. Our electoral system is not convoluted, it is quite simple: the legislatures of each state are responsible for election in their state. Simple.
Compulsory voting? How do you maintain that AND maintain the secret ballot? You can't. Your government knows how you voted. Think about that in the context of history. Pretty soon they'll make it even easier - they will send you the ballot already filled out so you don't have to hurt yourself thinking about complicated issues. And if you don't return it, they know how to find you and correct your behavior.
Sounds convoluted to me. Too many cogs in the machine. We don’t have these sort of discussions here every time there is an election because there would be only one point of corruption i.e the Electoral commission which is outside the government, it basically reports only to the high court of Australia, so you would have to corrupt it and the highest court in the land, if corruption gets that high then you’ve got bigger problems than voting mechanism.
With regards to secrecy and compulsory voting, they know who voted (pretty much everyone) but they don’t know who you voted for because the ballot is secret, you can’t link a name to a vote. We don’t use any high tech it’s all done with pencil and paper and cardboard boxes. Basically everyone has to show up (compulsory), have their say or abstain (blank ballot), no repercussions (secret). Only repercussion is if your to lazy to vote then you get a small fine for not doing your civic duty, think of it like jury duty. If I’m not wrong I think it’s the same list used for both here.
I’m talking about the process not freedom. You can have a simple corrupt system or complicated corrupt system. I’m proposing that a simpler system is less likely to be corrupted because there are less loopholes you can exploit. I can see your point, a centralized system only has a single point that needs to be corrupted. Your analogy could be put as a well armed dispersed city is hard to conquer, mine is it’s easier to defend a fort in the middle I think both have their pros and cons.
Centralization is an invitation to an unaccountable process if you have the wrong people in charge. Mail in secret ballots with centralized counting makes cheating much easier. The convolution and irregularity of the us system is the only hope for fairness, such as it is.
The Australian system could be fair (though Max igan disagrees). But how can you tell it's fair? What mechanisms ensure fairness and how can anything be verified?
The other key virtue is the electoral college and senate. This structure would ideally be replicated at the state level also (along with going back to the legislature electing the senators). There are two key advantages to this structure.
One, it eliminates the impact of ballot stuffing because no matter how many you stuff you only get your proper proportional vote.
Two it takes into account land as well as population to ensure proper representation for the diversity of conditions in the nation, which otherwise is roundly ignored by the ballot stuffers.
Centralized counting? All counting is done locally by hand with scrutineers from all parties there to witness the count, in theory any party could challenge each and every vote one by one if they chose to.
It sort of does but not really. You tend to get two entrenched blocks that vote the same way regardless and a lot of people that vote for who they think is going to win. Australians love it when they pick a winner. It make them feel special. Basically you have to pick someone so you usually get an each way bet, one party controls the house and the other controls the senate so they need to negotiate with minor parties and independents to get bills passed.
Honestly, if you had a choice between the current shower in the US, and "...start electing women based on their tits.", don't you think the women selected due to tittery would do a better job?
Haven't watched anything he's done in decades, but I remember that one because I thought it was funny. He seemed to loose his sense of humour or maybe I changed. One or the other.
I wouldn't want a centralized election system. Good way for authoritarians to duck you.
Also, having people that don't care not vote is better than forcing everyone, even the completely ignorant to vote.
Like this election, the Democrats can stay home and not be enthusiastic and that allows them to vote without voting. If they were forced to vote, you wouldn't be able to capture that apathy
Don’t let the primary vote for the major parties fool you as being undemocratic it’s our way of saying fuck you to our politicians we basically get about seven choices. It’s a sort of a knock out round system, I put my favorite candidate second last, he/she eventually gets my vote but has to sweat a while while my higher choices get knocked out.
I was just saying that not voting is a vote in and of itself.
If the democrats are doing really badly, lifelong democrats who are disillusioned can 'vote' by not voting. If they are forced to go to the polls, they aren't going to vote republican. To me, it seems forcing everyone to vote is a way for the establishment to make sure their team is forced to show up, which seems more partisan.
I guess if we had more parties and not a plurality of votes wins, then it could make more sense.
"dip your finger in ink?" Are you suggesting an identifying mark on the ballot?
The secret ballot is absolutely fundamental to legit elections. As soon as a cast ballot can be tied to a person, it's all over.
Showing that you are the person on the voting roll before you are handed a ballot is OK. Even essential if you want elections with integrity. We lost that decades ago, BTW. But really, does it matter? Do you really have any idea (or control) over what happens to the ballot after you drop it in the box, be it the box at the poll or the mail box? Nope.
And there in lies the real problem. Sure, let's trust the folks who control the government to audit the counting of ballots that determine who will control the government.
Hmm.....maybe I don't realize how old I am. This was the great symbol of democracy in Iraq during their elections. Once you vote, you dip your finger to show you voted and you can't vote again. Sometimes ancient problems require ancient solutions.
Yes, especially if there is a lot of trouble in determined places by the usual suspects once the initial results are available. Suppose the Red Wave becomes something we've never seen before, way more than political victories. I have to wonder why it will take so long to count votes if not to allow time for the lawless to act out. I hope I'm wrong.
God has not given you a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind. Jesus has the victory in all of this. Put on the full armor of God , so that you will stand. Greater is He that’s within you, than he that is in the world. We live in stressful times, yet this is the time that the Lord has allowed you to be born into and live. So fret not. Let not your heart be troubled and cast all your cares upon Him, for He cares for you. May the Lord be your strength and shield; in our weakness, He is strong and He will fight for you. 🤺✝️💪🏼🙌🏼✝️🙏🏼
Just keep your eyes on Jesus and don’t be distracted by your circumstances; they are a momentary light affliction for now and you will have a pain-free eternity with Him.🙏🏼✝️
Or setting a precedent for federal control over elections.
The US Constitution gives the states the right to oversee elections. This means state governments can and should refuse to let these federal agents into their polling places.
Doesn’t fill me with confidence, the DoJ is locking up people that they deem to be extremists- parents protesting trans treatment, drag queens, CRT. Anyone investigating the 2020 election (not the election itself, but people who gained access to machines without authorization regardless of what they find), and have been implicated in 1st amendment violations for social media censorship. They are actively intimidating republicans and investigating them. My guess is that the dems squeak through the mid-terms, the DoJ affirms that there was no fraud, the people protest, and are then arrested. Like Bill Gates said - contested election followed by civil war.
There are people here watching the unattended absentee ballot boxes in shifts. They have to stay 200 feet away from it and can't take photos of whoever shows up. Hopefully they also have binoculars!
I trust them. They'll definitely get those license plate numbers. "2000 Mules" is a very helpful movie. We're small potatoes but we've also been trained by Scott Presler.
We moved to WI and need to register to vote in our WI town. For the past week we have been trying to register at our town clerk’s office. Three times we have gone (including today) and the office is closed despite the posted hours showing they should be open. Maybe we need to have a little more attention to these local town clerks who are supposed to do their jobs.
Go to the poll station, fill out your paper ballot, dip your finger in ink. This is only difficult because they make it difficult on purpose.
And count at the polling place, keeping the ballots at the local precinct for recounts
If you could get Pfizer to put EUA’d mRNA into the ink, the government would suddenly be all over that suggestion.
And it would be mandated to vote, including children and infants.
Distributed control == many points of failure and corruption
Better than a single point of failure and corruption.
It will be much more work to corrupt all those local points. Harder, but not impossible - that's why national parties were created!
I find it fascinating how convoluted the US electoral system is. In Australia it’s simple and easy to register and vote. We have an well funded independent Electoral Commission that runs all our federal elections and referendums it’s not controversial, mail in ballots are easy and secure. Voting is compulsory (the horror). In theory if you really don’t want to vote it’s a $20 fine or you can just mail in the ballot paper with a dick drawn on it to get your name marked off the role (the dick party is very popular here in Australia). Bet you can’t draw a dick on your ballot with your high tech voting machines. 😀
There’s always at least one dick on the ballot here. No sketch needed.
In Illinois we have more dicks than a Marilyn Chambers movie.
With as commie as your govt there has become I don't think I would hold up the voting process as something to be proud of. After the dick moves they have been pulling for near 3 years now it seems like some people would want to elect less dickhead politicians but I bet you end up with the same crop of dickheads as usual. Then everyone in unison says "I guess more dickheads are what we wanted then!" and go happily marching off to covid camp again.
Also, they’re our equivalent of the Republican Party. They got voted out in a landslide and now the real commies the Labor Party (Democrats) are in charge.
Be careful what you wish for, eh?
Nothing wrong with the process it’s the candidates that are the problem.
Then there is this May 25, 2022 headline.
ELECTION FRAUD CONSPIRACY THEORISTS FALSELY CLAIM THE AUSTRALIAN ELECTION WAS "STOLEN"
What we're seeing is the result of a deliberate far-right intent to undermine two things: faith in the media, and faith in political processes
Sounds sort of familiar to me in the US.
Whom oh whom do we believe?
That's cool he could have taken up his dispute with the court of disputed returns. It was landslide the votes weren't even close. Was that in Vice, if so, they're a pretty woke low circulation publication pandering to there readership by trying to portray the right as a bunch of loonies. Didn't make it onto my radar at the time. Just my guess.
I just thought it was interesting in light of what you said about it being simple, etc. It sounds as if there might be as much controversy in Australia as in the good ol US. I like the Southpark cartoon take: "who do you want to vote for, the turd sandwich or the douche bag?" I'm enjoying listening to a novel called "Nine Perfect Strangers" by Liane Moriarty who lives in Sydney. Have you read her?
Thanks, sweet of you. So Whom do you believe?
A fine for not voting. Ahhhh, the smell of tyranny in the morning.
It’s a price worth paying to not have celebrities and influencers telling us to go out and vote.
Huh?
You'd rather have tyranny than having to turn off an ad by a celebrity telling you to go vote?
I am thinking a bit of sarcasm there.
Just a guess.
So a few points of fact of which you may be unaware.
In no state in the USA is it difficult to register to vote. In most states you can do it on-line, at any post office, or many other ways. In most volunteers canvas door to door before elections registering voters. In some states, including California which represents over 10% of the voters in national elections, every person who applies for a drivers license or ID is automatically registered to vote. It is so easy we don't even check if the registered person is a US citizen, a legal requirement to vote in this state!
A single entity in control of elections is a single point of failure and corruption. History has shown, many times, this is catastrophic. Historical fact. Every single time. Our electoral system is not convoluted, it is quite simple: the legislatures of each state are responsible for election in their state. Simple.
Compulsory voting? How do you maintain that AND maintain the secret ballot? You can't. Your government knows how you voted. Think about that in the context of history. Pretty soon they'll make it even easier - they will send you the ballot already filled out so you don't have to hurt yourself thinking about complicated issues. And if you don't return it, they know how to find you and correct your behavior.
Did they ban Orwell in Australia? History books?
Sounds convoluted to me. Too many cogs in the machine. We don’t have these sort of discussions here every time there is an election because there would be only one point of corruption i.e the Electoral commission which is outside the government, it basically reports only to the high court of Australia, so you would have to corrupt it and the highest court in the land, if corruption gets that high then you’ve got bigger problems than voting mechanism.
With regards to secrecy and compulsory voting, they know who voted (pretty much everyone) but they don’t know who you voted for because the ballot is secret, you can’t link a name to a vote. We don’t use any high tech it’s all done with pencil and paper and cardboard boxes. Basically everyone has to show up (compulsory), have their say or abstain (blank ballot), no repercussions (secret). Only repercussion is if your to lazy to vote then you get a small fine for not doing your civic duty, think of it like jury duty. If I’m not wrong I think it’s the same list used for both here.
I’m talking about the process not freedom. You can have a simple corrupt system or complicated corrupt system. I’m proposing that a simpler system is less likely to be corrupted because there are less loopholes you can exploit. I can see your point, a centralized system only has a single point that needs to be corrupted. Your analogy could be put as a well armed dispersed city is hard to conquer, mine is it’s easier to defend a fort in the middle I think both have their pros and cons.
Boom!
Centralization is an invitation to an unaccountable process if you have the wrong people in charge. Mail in secret ballots with centralized counting makes cheating much easier. The convolution and irregularity of the us system is the only hope for fairness, such as it is.
The Australian system could be fair (though Max igan disagrees). But how can you tell it's fair? What mechanisms ensure fairness and how can anything be verified?
Yes the USA’s decentralized system is a virtue
The other key virtue is the electoral college and senate. This structure would ideally be replicated at the state level also (along with going back to the legislature electing the senators). There are two key advantages to this structure.
One, it eliminates the impact of ballot stuffing because no matter how many you stuff you only get your proper proportional vote.
Two it takes into account land as well as population to ensure proper representation for the diversity of conditions in the nation, which otherwise is roundly ignored by the ballot stuffers.
Centralized counting? All counting is done locally by hand with scrutineers from all parties there to witness the count, in theory any party could challenge each and every vote one by one if they chose to.
Oh now i can see how mandatory voting really helps improve voter engagement
It sort of does but not really. You tend to get two entrenched blocks that vote the same way regardless and a lot of people that vote for who they think is going to win. Australians love it when they pick a winner. It make them feel special. Basically you have to pick someone so you usually get an each way bet, one party controls the house and the other controls the senate so they need to negotiate with minor parties and independents to get bills passed.
Voting by who you think will win is retarded. You should vote who you think will do the best job.
Otherwise we may just as well start electing women based on their tits.
Wait... we don't?
Honestly, if you had a choice between the current shower in the US, and "...start electing women based on their tits.", don't you think the women selected due to tittery would do a better job?
Yep. We can be a bunch of retards. Some probably would, probably depends how good how good her tits were.
In most places you can request a write in ballot. I suppose you could vote for dick in every race. I never have but I did write in Hugh Jass one time.
Ha! Good one 👍
I remember Michael Moore running a pot plant (Ficus from memory) against an unopposed candidate. 😂
Michael Moore is a chief dick honestly. I used to think I liked him. But he's pretty much a worthless tool.
Haven't watched anything he's done in decades, but I remember that one because I thought it was funny. He seemed to loose his sense of humour or maybe I changed. One or the other.
So you all legitimately voted for the ass holes you have down under? Wow!
Yep. 92% voter turnout and spoilt for choice in the Senate:
https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/18/australian-election-2022-full-list-micro-minor-parties-party-running-voting-senate-ballot-paper-federal-who-should-vote-what-do-they-stand-for
And yet, the globalists still captured you.
Yep. We are sheep.
It turns out, the ability to submit a drawing of a dick doesn't help as much as you might think.
I wouldn't want a centralized election system. Good way for authoritarians to duck you.
Also, having people that don't care not vote is better than forcing everyone, even the completely ignorant to vote.
Like this election, the Democrats can stay home and not be enthusiastic and that allows them to vote without voting. If they were forced to vote, you wouldn't be able to capture that apathy
We’re a country built on apathy. If we didn't have compulsory voting no one would probably term up.
https://spectator.com.au/2022/07/australia-apathetic-or-activist/
Don’t let the primary vote for the major parties fool you as being undemocratic it’s our way of saying fuck you to our politicians we basically get about seven choices. It’s a sort of a knock out round system, I put my favorite candidate second last, he/she eventually gets my vote but has to sweat a while while my higher choices get knocked out.
Interesting :)
I was just saying that not voting is a vote in and of itself.
If the democrats are doing really badly, lifelong democrats who are disillusioned can 'vote' by not voting. If they are forced to go to the polls, they aren't going to vote republican. To me, it seems forcing everyone to vote is a way for the establishment to make sure their team is forced to show up, which seems more partisan.
I guess if we had more parties and not a plurality of votes wins, then it could make more sense.
Anyway, thanks for the info and education.
Agree. I wish there was more choice or at least better candidates.
Yep, they sure are.
Will enough citizens participate in counting the votes by hand?
You could pay people to count like we do in Australian, never a shortage. Also, we vote on Saturday which might make it easier.
"dip your finger in ink?" Are you suggesting an identifying mark on the ballot?
The secret ballot is absolutely fundamental to legit elections. As soon as a cast ballot can be tied to a person, it's all over.
Showing that you are the person on the voting roll before you are handed a ballot is OK. Even essential if you want elections with integrity. We lost that decades ago, BTW. But really, does it matter? Do you really have any idea (or control) over what happens to the ballot after you drop it in the box, be it the box at the poll or the mail box? Nope.
And there in lies the real problem. Sure, let's trust the folks who control the government to audit the counting of ballots that determine who will control the government.
Hmm.....maybe I don't realize how old I am. This was the great symbol of democracy in Iraq during their elections. Once you vote, you dip your finger to show you voted and you can't vote again. Sometimes ancient problems require ancient solutions.
https://www.chron.com/opinion/editorials/article/Purple-fingers-Iraqi-ink-stained-fingers-great-1509308.php
What they left out, is the monitoring of "compliance" will be in the 24 most important precincts.
Expect coordinated water leaks at 2 AM.
Proverbial fox ...
Is this the kind of "monitoring" KKK members offered black voters in the 1960s?
No, it's more like the Black Panthers in 2008.
Anybody in Philly who responded to those old Black Panthers in '08 with "sup holmes, McCain for me" deserved to get clubbed.
Wow. Violence much?
The UN will monitor elections next with “peacekeepers”
Yes, especially if there is a lot of trouble in determined places by the usual suspects once the initial results are available. Suppose the Red Wave becomes something we've never seen before, way more than political victories. I have to wonder why it will take so long to count votes if not to allow time for the lawless to act out. I hope I'm wrong.
Hope you're wrong. Fear you're right.
1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—
2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 1 Timothy 1:1-2 🙌🏼✝️
God has not given you a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind. Jesus has the victory in all of this. Put on the full armor of God , so that you will stand. Greater is He that’s within you, than he that is in the world. We live in stressful times, yet this is the time that the Lord has allowed you to be born into and live. So fret not. Let not your heart be troubled and cast all your cares upon Him, for He cares for you. May the Lord be your strength and shield; in our weakness, He is strong and He will fight for you. 🤺✝️💪🏼🙌🏼✝️🙏🏼
Just keep your eyes on Jesus and don’t be distracted by your circumstances; they are a momentary light affliction for now and you will have a pain-free eternity with Him.🙏🏼✝️
They’re going to steal the election. The placement of the DOJ is so they can claim there wasnt fraud
The areas on the list make no sense other than something like this. Or inciting …
Or setting a precedent for federal control over elections.
The US Constitution gives the states the right to oversee elections. This means state governments can and should refuse to let these federal agents into their polling places.
They don’t need to make sense. They just need to say they did it. “We monitored them, they were fair!”
There’s zero need to monitor the elections otherwise…unless republicans win and they declare them fraudulent because the DO”J” says so….
inciting is a very good guess
They will certainly try.
He who votes decides nothing; he who ensures voting law compliance decides everything.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/11/04/if-republicans-win-on-tuesday-thank-the-election-integrity-movement/
Ah, the wonderful RNC - masters of oiling the barn door hinges after the horses have died of old age. With friends like them...
Exactly. This has been a bipartisan rigging escapade. Globalists own both "parties."
Fascinating! I had no idea the RNC was banned from poll watching until 2020. That certainly helps explain a thing or two.
Famously attributed to 'Uncle Joe', (Stalin). "The people who cast the votes decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything".
The same thinker who murderously quipped: “Man; problem. No man, no problem!”
I don't like to do "whataboutism" but could you fucking imagine the outcry that would happen if Trump sent in the Feds to "monitor" elections?
You'd never hear the end of it, like we were living in a autocratic state under a dictator. Funny how nobody is saying anything about that now.
Doesn’t fill me with confidence, the DoJ is locking up people that they deem to be extremists- parents protesting trans treatment, drag queens, CRT. Anyone investigating the 2020 election (not the election itself, but people who gained access to machines without authorization regardless of what they find), and have been implicated in 1st amendment violations for social media censorship. They are actively intimidating republicans and investigating them. My guess is that the dems squeak through the mid-terms, the DoJ affirms that there was no fraud, the people protest, and are then arrested. Like Bill Gates said - contested election followed by civil war.
Do not be fooled into doing what they “predict” …!
Pains me to agree. I think they were hoping someone would do something stupid beforehand but the above is plan b.
what a bunch of slimy dirt bags.
these are the foot soldiers of Obama's Army
Maybe we should see if we can get some Pfizer execs to fact-check the media about the jabs...?
DOJ is the problem, not the solution 🤬🤬🤬
There are people here watching the unattended absentee ballot boxes in shifts. They have to stay 200 feet away from it and can't take photos of whoever shows up. Hopefully they also have binoculars!
Or a superpower like night hearing
I trust them. They'll definitely get those license plate numbers. "2000 Mules" is a very helpful movie. We're small potatoes but we've also been trained by Scott Presler.
Only 24 states? A cover for shenanigans in Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and Pennsylvania? BTW- why will it take days to know the results?
No doubt.
Just cuz. The abacus takes a long time to total.
We moved to WI and need to register to vote in our WI town. For the past week we have been trying to register at our town clerk’s office. Three times we have gone (including today) and the office is closed despite the posted hours showing they should be open. Maybe we need to have a little more attention to these local town clerks who are supposed to do their jobs.
Or maybe it's deliberate if you live in a Red area
The Law of Salutary Contradiction:
It didn't happen, so let's make sure it doesn't happen again!