Just posted this comment on the NYT op-Ed. We’ll see if it sneaks past the “moderators.” Based on past experience, I’m skeptical. Here it is:
“I’ve repeatedly had my comments censored on this website for years now for saying exactly this. Meanwhile, I’ve watched as the top “recommended” comments on article after article display unwavering confidence in the efficacy of masks and the immorality, evilness even, of those, like me, who do not share their faith.
This newspaper has constantly fed fanaticism over the masking issue, misinforming it’s readership and exacerbating partisan hatred. In what other areas is this paper providing a similar disservice to its readers and to society at large? I used to read the NYT to learn what’s happening in the world. Now I read it only to learn what’s happening in the Twitter-addled minds of the cloistered elites seeking constantly to assert more and more control over our lives using pseudoscience and emotional blackmail.
Good on the Times for finally publishing something reasonable on the masking issue. Shame on the Times for putting ideological interests over the pursuit of truth time and time again over these tumultuous few years.”
The rest of the commentariat are hysterically apoplectic at the mere suggestion that they've been duped and have been made to look like imbeciles for the past three years.
The top “recommended” comments on the article are deeply disturbing. Millions of brains have been broken. I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. There is literally nothing that could convince them that masks don’t work.
Would not surprise me that there are bots in there. On the other hand, I actually know some vaxxed to the max people who ardently believe masks work and that the NYT has been doing a bangup job of professional reporting. I mean, the crazy is really crazy.
Oh, believe me I understand! I live in the heart of covidistan in the PNW. I saw a woman walking alone, outdoors, with her surgical mask pulled down to her chin so she could take a puff on her cigarette. Compliance poster child! (Though she appeared middle-aged).
In my experience, most who are now masked are wearing them for psychological reasons. Effectiveness in preventing disease is quite irrelevant to these people. They would no sooner take off their masks in public than they would their clothes.
They even admit to me that it is purely psychological, and that they know they're being irrational. By the way. I'm a practicing nudist, so I've been aware for a long time of the irrationality of the human mind when it comes to non-sexual nude behavior. I will just have to accept that face masks will now join the other absurd virtue signaling of modesty.
The top recommended comments on the article are the type of vapid lunacy that would physically arouse Feigl-Ding and Topol. Dr. Fauci would pass out from "the vapors" reading that crap.
Over the weekend my wife and I got together with a friend, and eventually the subject of masks came up. I mentioned the recent study showing that masks basically accomplish nothing. Not only had she not heard about the study, but it was clear that she had never even considered the notion that masks could be anything but wonderful for preventing sickness. Nobody in her life had ever mentioned such a thing before.
I like to think that I planted a notion in her mind that might make her look more critically at the issue in the future. And a lot of people need that nudge to get them moving in the right direction. So keep nudging.
It's utterly bizarre. I bought a cycle pollution mask at the start of the scamdemic, it arrived and had valves on it for the air to escape. I thought, "that's a bit shit, then I realized that the surgical masks had bigger gaps at the side. There was never any sort of mandate on the type of mask you had to wear, only that you had to wear one. It was all psychological to keep up the illusion of a pandemic.
Back when the US airlines were on the mask-holian B.S. I saw people get told that their masks with valves were insufficient. (Now, there are some good jokes amid that lunacy, but I am not going to use them, right now anyway.)
When I "nudge" almost any of my friends, and some of my family, they tend to recite some B.S. straight off the CDC website. Evidently, you've got smarter friends!
Bring up Sweden and lockdowns and the response is almost always the "worse than [cherrypicked] neighbors".
Finland and Norway's lockdowns were minimal - Finland closed schools and public buildings for two weeks, that was about it. After 3 years I think Sweden's excess deaths is least of the 4 Scandinavian countries.
Was just in the grocery store yesterday and more than half of the people were still wearing masks including still masking their children. I don't think there is any article even one from the NY Times that will change their minds at this point. They will be masking forever.
It’s so so sad. Even people they know, who live in other countries, with other rules (my kids only ever masked on airplanes), cannot drill into their closed minds. Dan niet hè?
WOW! Here in Lancaster Co. PA, you may see one or two per store... 99% of people are no longer masking... dr's offices and hospitals are the exception, for some stupid reason. Make the sick wear a mask if needed in the waiting room, but the healthy? Dumb. Many years ago, I would have to take my kids to the Dr, and often thought how the waiting room was a germ bed with so many hacking and sneezing people... yet nothing was ever done about that... seems to me if you are coming to the Dr with something highly contagious a mask might not be a bad idea, otherwise...
I'm originally from York Co. PA. I have some nieces and nephews who live there and in Bernville. They are definitely not enlightened, though I don't think they wear masks at least.
NM, home of the bomb and the masks. Very few people here, especially in government because that's where they get their paychecks, gives a rats about the Los Alamos National Lab working on pit production. That means making new triggers for nuclear weapons. They will have to ship plutonium across the Southern US on rickety, old rail lines and in trucks.What could possibly go wrong? Oh, wait, Palestine, Ohio. But they are death on their mask wearing while walking in a grocery store or across a restaurant (until they sit down).
It's true in the bastion of liberalism, Santa Fe, NM. Our governor Wuhan Lujan has relentlessly promoted the BS from the start. The local papers slavishly followed her lead.
What a pity that such a wonderful state as New Mexico should have such people in charge, maybe you should all think of moving to South Dakota if you can tolerate the cold winters.
Mercy. I'm thinking of Florida. Not really. I'm old, and my husband died 5 1/2 years ago. I have a guy who takes care of my place and is a titular caregiver for me. I can't wrap my head around moving after 50 years in one house.
Yes, you're right. It's out of the question to move now, but it must be a huge disappointment to you to see what has happened to the leadership of your great state. I guess it's because it was discovered by so many out of state liberal luvvies who then voted in people like them who had no appreciation of New Mexico's frontier spirit.
Update: the “moderators” zapped me again. The comments section is full of nonsensical vitriol against the “anti-maskers,” but apparently my comment violates the “civility” policy. These people are psychotic.
There seems to be a prohibition on broadly criticizing NYT coverage of an issue in the comments. I’ve had many similar comments censored. These people are totalitarian to the core.
I just want to say congratulations on your persistence within the New York Times comment section, that is the front line against the Branch Covidians and as frustrating as it must have been at times, it's days like this you earn your reward.
They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and are now pretending they’re just putting a stolen cookie back.
I notice they’re still perpetuating the use of name-calling (“conspiracy theorists” and “quack-cure peddlers”) and will pull those tricks out of their bag to lob at anyone who questions the next narrative.
The only way to defend against this tactic is to let the bullets pass through you. That’s when you realize they were just imaginary, and they’ll never work to silence you again:
You are totally correct and this is a typical mainstream media m.o.-- the whoops, my bad, now let's all make up and forget this ever happened.
However, they aren't really walking anything back at all because the second another pandemic is declared, and the WHO, Bill Gates, etc...have already said another pandemic is on the horizon (2024 election year?), ALL of the mandates will come back with a vengeance including the masks. There will be a new and improved study that debunks the current NY Times article declaring that masks actually do work for *this* virus when worn properly, or double/triple masked, or wearing N95's only, or if worn with goggles and a butt plug, whatever it takes to push the fear so you'll take the next vaccine.
I believe that articles like this are also designed to make you think we are all finally in the clear and that mandates are a thing of the past never to return. It's a sleight of hand to get you to take you eye off the ball which is Biden attempting to hand over U.S. sovereignty to the World Health Org who you can bet will bring those masks back. They want you to relax and feel like things are finally getting back to normal when the fact is the powers that be will clamp down 100x harder the next go around.
Ugh I hate this. Out to dinner with people who got the shot to travel and we are bemoaning the fact that my hubs cannot to this day legally enter the USA to visit my family.
“Wow I haven’t heard anyone talking about COVID for ages! We don’t even think about it anymore!”
Then crickets. No sympathy, no questions, nothing. End of subject. We stopped going out with them.
It's amazing, the biggest "event" in our lifetimes and they want to pretend it didn't happen. I look at these people differently now, feels a little lonely to be honest. I would like some friends that aren't so fucking weak.
These are the people who would sell you out in a heartbeat. No matter what they do to redeem themselves, I will never feel safe around them ever again.
Are you in the US? Are you a citizen? I was thankful I was never refused entry as a citizen, but to deny the right to travel and right to family life for a spouse is unacceptable. CCP practices indeed. We spent a couple years navigating the various and changing rules for travel and even now that everyone but the US is temporarily done with the charade, I have a nasty after taste concerning some countries. Never say never, but I have a long memory. If you can be principled it's the way to be, but family is family and while there are limits to what I am prepared to do, sometimes things need to be done to survive in this world. I would never advise anyone to take the shot, but getting a fake card at this point is probably what we need to do. Mom isn't getting any younger and neither are her grandkids....
Substack is being attacked by the goobermint goons.
Dead serious. Something is rotten in Denmark. I can tell you this from the IT I've developed over the years for my biz. There are some tell tale signs.
Authors should plan accordingly imo. If I were them I wouldn't want to be caught flat footed.
My sister, who is an MD, seems to be cottoning on to the fact that I was right about COVID jabs (as were so many others). So she had to ask me about ivermectin. I said I would take it for COVID because there is some evidence of benefit and little risk. I think this put her mind at ease, allowing her to peg me as a nut case who just got lucky being right once.
My sister is a nurse and her husband a cardiologist. Both swear by mask and the vaccine/boosters because...well just because. She also insist if we had only “masked sooner” we could stopped the spread. Needless to say I’ve lost all respect for the both of them and much of the medical community.
Ask the cardiologist to perform an analysis of his 2021–2022 patient intake and myocarditis cases versus 2019–2020 and see what he finds out. He should have nothing to fear if he wishes to base his conclusions on the data.
He retired in 2019 so no dice. Sooo disappointing to see people you know are intelligent succumb to fear. Makes it easier to understand why so many good germans followed such a bad man once upon a time. Fear and herd mentality are powerful forces.
That is an admirable demonstration of humility and willingness to learn on the part of your sister! Please feel free to share these articles with her for further information, including an extensive list of peer-reviewed studies I compiled during the FDA’s horseshit disinformation campaign:
You don't know her ... but it has got to be sobering when people are obligated to take the Nth dose of this stuff (now bivalent!) while everyone else is moving on.
I find that claim *extremely* difficult to believe. As I expose in “Letter to a Scientifically-Minded Friend,” the poison control center reports planted in the MSM were falsified, and “Rolling Stone,” et al even had to issue retractions. You can count the number of those reported as suffering ill side effects from ivermectin over nearly 40 years on two hands IIRC. She may have seen patients suffering from something else, but the likelihood that it was ivermectin poisoning is virtually nil.
Erm, did you not notice that the author of the piece is one of the two (barely tolerated) NYT pet conservatives? This is NOT the NYT "coming around" to rationality or admitting error. This is the NYT throwing their vacuous vaca to the progressive piranhas. I'm not going there to check, but I imagine Stephens is getting seriously dragged in the comments.
‘... an unwitting accomplice to the genuine enemies of reason and science - conspiracy theorists and quack-cure peddlers...’. Accomplice? Inventor and leader of the pack surely.
I’ve been in more than one operating theater (operating room) where the surgeon said, “Surgical Masks are a Joke,” that they prevent a sneeze or cough from spewing saliva directly on the patient or blood from the patient spraying into the doctor’s mouth/nose, but that’s it.
I believe there was a study that analyzed masks in operating rooms specifically. The patients where the operating staff were masked had MORE bacterial infections than the unmasked. Not sure why that is, my guess is that the staff touches their mask and then that transfers to the patient.
There have been a number of studies over the years, starting back in 1975. All studies showed that masks made no difference or did more harm than good.
That’s why I was onto them from the beginning. They memory-holed the science that I was required to review every year. It was then that I knew this whole thing wasn’t about health.
Masks invariably trap a lot of food and environmental particles that people directly inhale all day, while impairing CO2-02 gas exchange. Inevitably, this toxic combination is a magnet for bacterial growth.
I have what I've found to be a good counter to lazy pseudo-credentialism:
"So, you say I should defer to you because you 'work in health-care?' (To use your example.)
"Yes."
"Have you ever expressed opinions about teaching and how schools should be organised or how teachers should do their jobs?"
"Yes?" (Because everyone has an opinion on schools, for the last 50 years.)
"I have various degrees in didactics/pedagogy, economics, political science, sociology, linguistics, semantics/semiotics, the ideas of history/history of ideas and requisite sub-subjcts, and 25+ years of experience teaching all ages. What makes you qualified to have an opinion of teaching or on the subjects as such? Are you going to shut up about schools and teaching from now on?"
---
That usually ends any discussion or casual credentialism-intended-as-a-gag. Teaching can of course be replaced with any subject or skill where your knowledge/credentials are greater than the opponents. Style and form to be adapted depending on context of course.
If for some reason someone does sneeze on you, then aren’t you just breathing those germs in and out constantly vs if you weren’t wearing a mask? I’ve wondered this for 3 years…
My retort back during the dark ages of 2020 was, "My mother already taught me when I was a little kid not to sneeze in anyone's face, so I think you are OK if I don't wear it."
In 2019 or so, a passerby on the sidewalk was coughing massively in my direction. I remember thinking specifically, "Man, I hope I don't get sick from that." A few days later I was lying sick in bed with a summer flu. Life has always involved low levels of biowarfare...
Asking for amnesty is a recognition of guilt. Forgiveness, not amnesty may be considered AFTER they make it all good and restore the country to the to the way it was before all the damage they caused to people's lives, damage done to children learning and development by the lockdowns, the damage to the economy of the country. But there is the other thing. They need to CURE the damage the shots they made and coerced people to take. That means restore all the damaged people to normal health and normal expected life spans. Oh, yeah, how will they compensate families for the deaths of their loved ones? Bottom Line: THEY WROTE CHECK THEY CAN NOT COVER. Sorry, not sorry, no forgiveness or amnesty for you!
But without the stigma of actually _acknowledging_ guilt, nor apologizing for it.
First tell me you're sorry for being an authoritarian thug and you will try not to do that ever again. Then MAYBE we can talk.
OTOH, if you're the CDC, I think it's time to cut off funding. CDC, it should be noted stands for the Center for DISEASE Control. They didn't see COVID coming. They didn't see the recent monkey pox outbreak coming. They surely didn't mitigate their impact in any meaningful way. IF they should somehow be allowed to keep operating, then first thing: No More F#@&ing Gun Studies. Focus on your task.
CDC and FDA will not come clean to regain the public trust. If they become transparent, they would open themselves for law suits and administrative punishment. Their leadership hold to their well-paid jobs with their claws. Their work force consists from diversity hires not capable of critical thinking. Both agencies should be demolished. This will not happen under the current administration that is in bed with BigPharma, legacy media, and totalitarian deep state. We have to avoid any vaccines now on, and be suspicious of the medical providers. Patients must sue for damages but the corrupted system will continue defending itself.
Sadly, the masquerade is not over in the healthcare arena. I have an appointment today for an annual wellness exam and I've been reminded in every email and automated phone call that "face coverings are required in all our facilities." I would love to be the one that raises the bs flag and plops down in the waiting area maskless. But I have no doubt I would be asked to leave and/or escorted out. And it is not possible to find a different provider because in our area, one healthcare conglomerate has an fairly perfect monopoly. So I may have to accept that I am "unclean" for the rest of my life, or until we move to a different state.
I showed up with a very loose fitting face covering for every single stupid appointment my father has had. Any appointments for myself I do as well, just a very loose fitting mask that keeps falling down. I cannot breathe, What is even more cruel are the patients with CHF like my 99 yo dad. He wears a mask and can barely breathe. panting and puffing and making a big scene. We remove them when no one else is around. and obviously as soon as we get outside in fresh air.
that is exactly how ridiculous it is! tight-fitting masks don't "work," and loose-fitting masks "don't work" just as well as the tight-fitting ones.
During the first year, before the N-95s became de rigueur, when fabric masks were all the rage, I made myself one out of patterned silk voile and tulle. Totally full of holes and breathable, and no one looked carefully because the patterned fabric made it look impermeable, and only one person noticed and complimented me -- and hers was a silk scarf tied bandit-fashion. I could not breathe otherwise. I live in an area of total mask compliance and yelling Karens. Oh, that idiocy was so miserable!!!!!
That it still persists in medical settings, of all places, is cognitively dissonant in a very disturbing way. Even more so because it's by design.
Brilliant. I wish that I had thought of that idea, I could have avoided a lot of aggravation. But maybe it was just as well I didn't as the covidiots always came off second best from altercations with me and would therefore hesitate to challenge others.
Whenever anybody gives me that, I tell them the story about how the hospital didn't require them when my son was delivered in september. 48 hours roaming around the mother baby side, and even a visit to the 'transition' area of the nicu(nothing wrong with baby just a stupid nurse), only wore a mask in the OR. That story with a little light incredulousness usually makes them feel pretty silly at the eye doctor or whoever.
oh yeah... the eye doctor. masks fogging up the lenses on their equipment so you can't get an accurate reading. Then they say, oh, it's OK to pull your mask down from your nose, but be sure to keep it covering your mouth and chin! Just for a couple minutes while we check your prescription. What the heck is running through their minds, I wonder? Can we trust their judgment on medical advice since they don't grasp that this is nonsensical?
When I go to the eye doctor they want to put tape across the top of the mask to keep from fogging, I called out the BS and no problem since. Just refuse! They want to get paid ya know!
Yeah, it is the ones who are borderline members of the 'medical community' who are strictest so that you remember that they are real medical people. The eye doctors are big on it. I bet people that check hearing take it real seriously. When people like that see you in a mask they feel like they moved up the ladder a little.
It took me a while, but late last year I finally found a PCP who isn't a mask or vaccine totalitarian. I had to ask A LOT of people for references and suggestions, my dentist finally hooked me up with the right guy. You aren't going to find anyone via online searches, either, because Google won't let them be found and Yelp and other reviewers will delete favorable comments. The only downside with my new guy is that it's concierge care and he doesn't take insurance, but the membership and the cost of the services is affordable, at least to me.
I used to go to a PCP who was part of a large hospital chain and they are still crazy Nazis, by design. That's the whole point of corporate healthcare, honestly. Force the doctors to be employees and not entrepreneurs and they'll say and do anything to keep their job.
Shockingly, most people do not believe that about docs being so lockstep compliant. They are.
I am glad you found a good doc. I have several now…. Since I was forced to take the first two shots yes I was pressured. I am a dope, get over it. Now I have RA. Never had this shit before. Now I am taking 5mg of prednisone to take the edge off, I eat better and can actually move my joints. Last year it was bad.
Anyway, eventually I am sure they will deny me refills and I will have to score it on the streets of loudoun county
My own doctors do not play that mask game, but dads heart doc practice does. It is a huge pain in the neckkkk
wear a lace face mask next time. they have never specified the thickness or weave. tell them you're wearing a face mask. they have to accept it. it's how stupid it is.
I love this! I used to cut out the 2nd ply out of the surgical masks to see patients during the height of the hysteria, even wore it to the outpatient center when I got a colonoscopy, you could see me talk and smile, nobody said a word! The sheeple registered "face mask on" not the thickness or weave. I became more scared of THEM than of covid!
Meanwhile in my little corner of Florida, I am a physician and I refused to wear a mask the day DeSantis ended the PHE on 4/24/21, yet the CDC persists to this day...I have become famous for the no-mask policy in my office and my patients are more trusting and happy with me than they have ever been. I refuse to mask when I go to other doctors' offices and have been thrown out of one. I will never mask again. I go to the doctors that won't mask either. It's the hospital affiliated ones that are sheep. Seek out independent counsel!!!!
Bravo! A friend of mine has recently started working at a doctor's office. Both she and the doctor buck the stupid masks rules and go maskless. She told me that people come in wearing masks, and when they see her smiling, maskless face, they pull them off in relief. People like you provide a little oasis in the world of medical craziness.
This is a matter for each individual to decide for him/herself.
I'm not alone in putting off the annual checkup. I'd like the craziness to go away first (maybe it won't), and I don't want any pesky questions about vaxx status or pills pushed on me.
Maybe I won't get all of the screening tests done, but we are now learning that many of them do not bring about better outcomes (early detection). Some do. Anyway, something to ponder.
As far as I can tell, I'm healthy. And I don't worry about it.
I have to go to medical facilities quite a bit, when I take my elderly parents to their appointments or they go to the hospital (often, unfortunately). I cannot stand wearing the masks, and yes, they do escort people out. It's maddening.
I recently received one of those reminder checks before an appointment. I promptly called and cancelled my appointment. When asked if I would like to reschedule I responded no. If my doctors can't understand that masking doesn't work. Why would I trust them on matters related to my personal health as their reasoning abilities are subpar.
Same sentiment here. I won't participate in their charades any longer. I have a friend who recently had a hip replacement. I am her DPOA-HC, etc. I accompanied her to the surgery etc. Masks were supposed to be worn in the hospital, but it was not enforced by any clinician there. In fact, most had none on and those that did were wearing them improperly. I figured if they aren't wearing them then neither am I. Once the surgery was done and she was in recovery, I came back in the hospital and had a volunteer at the desk thrust one in my face. I laughed at her, took it and took a long time to put it on. Once I got out of sight of her, I took it off, went up to the OR suite and another word wasn't said.
At several follow-up appointments, the person at the desk was the mask gestapo, thrusting the box in your face when you walked in. Once we went back to the exam area, very few clinicians had them on and I removed mine. When we left, I didn't wear it out of course and dared the mask nazi to say anything to me.
It's all a sick joke and unless I need emergency care, I won't put myself through the BS or will I support it with my insurance dollars.
If masks worked, why weren't they recommending them all along, for years, during every flu season, etc? It begs the question, were they negligent then or are they lying now? It's one or the other.
Ooops! I dropped it on the floor. I'll need another one if you insist I wear one. Oops, I'm so clumsy! Guess I'll need yet another one. What? Of course I won't pick one of them up off the floor and use it. Do you know how many germs there are on floors? [two mask later] Ah, there we go this one must fit better! Have a nice day! [slips around the nearest corner and disposes of muzzle in nearest trash can].
I haven't been to a doctor for any screening since 2019 and I don't plan to. My last well check I had all of blood work done. While there, my doctor pushed boosters for whooping cough, tetanus, and HPV. I said no to all of it since I have already those shots and I didn't see the point of getting them all again. Shortly after, the nurse walked in with the shots anyway and tried to give them to me. I got up and walked out and never went back. This was before Covid so I can only imagine what it is like now. During Covid in 2021, I had planned on getting my annual mammogram and was told that I had to show proof of vaccination FOR CANCER SCREENING so I didn't go and haven't been back since.
I feel like our entire healthcare industry is in complete collapse.
that sounds a bit crazy that you are at the age where an HPV vaccine would be recommended, AND annual mammograms.
HPV vaccines (introduced in 2006) is not recommended across the board for people older than 26. People age 27-45 might want to get one, but it is thought to be less effective once a person is already sexually active, because of the likelihood of prior exposure to HPV. Once the initial series is completed, boosters are NOT indicated, as this vaccine is considered to offer long-term protection.
The first screening mammogram is recommended at age 40, but only regular, "every two years" for women 50 to 75.
If you are being pushed to get an HPV booster after having received the initial series, that is just nuts. As well, if you are being pushed to get annual mammograms (unless you have a prior cancer history that they want to keep on top of for some reason), that is excessive.
This is just the current CDC recommendations. As I think many of us are figuring out, HPV vaccines are very risky and not that effective, and mammograms are not risk-free.
Yes to more information needed on the risks of yearly mammograms! I have two immediate family members who had breast cancer and so came back to The Netherlands all ging ho about getting an annual exam and my GP told me they have drastically reduced the recommendations, even with family history. Now you can always wonder about money saving in a socialized medicine situation, but causing cancer is definitely not cost effective, so there’s that.
I have been reading a lot out there on yearly mammo's and there is more coming out that it's totally unnecessary for anyone without a family history or a history of cancer yet we are told we must get one every year no matter what. It's a huge cash cow and the medical industrial complex makes even more money if you get an abnormal reading as this sets off an entire series of expensive tests and diagnostics (see my comment on this in this thread). More is coming out that most low grade breast cancers never needed radiation or chemo, that many cancers are so slow growing that treating them is pointless. You'll outlive it, basically. Yet, women are being told they have to get chemo or they'll die so they go through chemo which makes them far sicker than a non-spreading cancer ever would. Meanwhile, the medical industrial complex makes lots and lots of $$
Agree! I even said to my doctor that, as long term married woman in a committed relationship who has already tested negative for HPV, WHY do I need this vaccine at my age? He basically said, well, if you don't want it you don't have to take it and that's it. It's clear the doctors are getting $ for each vax administered just like they go during Covid. That, or they just follow CDC guidelines which are designed to over test and over treat.
I truly believe that we are a society suffering from over diagnosis, over vaccination and over treatment. For women getting mammograms it's especially over diagnosed now that mammo screening is done by 3D tomosynthesis which can pick up even the tiniest irregularity which isn't even cancer. This happened to me after a 3D mammo. Was told that I most certainly had cancer. Was devastated. Most stressful time of my life. Even made an appointment with a breast surgeon. Thought I was going to die. Went and had a biopsy. Results come back after 5 days of waiting which was pure hell and all it was was inflamed tissue, nothing even close to cancer. Oh, and I got a bill for 15 thousand dollars for the privilege of all of this treatment and the stress of thinking I was dying.
And people wonder why we don't trust doctors anymore.
your mammogram story is so sickening. And all of the repeat "call back" mammograms contribute to cancer (maybe the technology has improved since I went through my mammogram scare 17 years ago and decided to stop getting them).
I have now had two friends tell me with that "I'm a victim too" tone in their voice, "I have cancer and I'm getting a double mastectomy. Thank God they caught it early -- it is only stage one." Or, "they picked up diffuse cancer with no particular tumors, so thank God they caught it and I had a mastectomy." These women didn't have cancer!!!!!! The fear they place in us is criminal, and yes, as a friend once told me, "they will make you merchandise" -- i.e., we are generators of profits -- keep us alive and "sick" for as long as possible, drag out the misery, debility and drain us of every dollar, then we are allowed (or made to) die.
Well, I decided I would rather die than allow the medical system to poison, mutilate and scare me to death. Even if I should have some undiagnosed "something" that I will die of, I enjoy each day and I'm not going to spend my life going from doctor to doctor or in medical facilities.
I fear that more than I fear any illness or death.
I wouldn't bet on it. I still see plenty of signs like that and haven't worn a mask in over a year. Corporate CYA is a very different thing from receptionists who believe in masks. Show your face, if they hand you a mask use a line like this, 'You guys are still doing that? Wow. It's like being in the past.' not aggressively just like surprised, but take it and stuff it in your pocket on your way back to your seat. If they say something else pull it out and wave like oh yeah i forgot and then put it back in your pocket after you walk by.
Every little push towards freedom is one less push the next guy has to push to be free.
I have an appointment at a "healthcare" facility in about three weeks. In about a week, I'll be calling to see if masks are still required. I'll be canceling if they are...
Each time I’ve had a medical appointment in the past couple of years, I am handed a mask at check-in (because aI sure don’t OWN any). When they asked me to put it on, I say “OK” and don’t. Sometimes, that’s that. If they persist, I will put it on under my nose.
At an last appointment this month, I went back with the nurse, had vitals checked, and waited for the doctor without her asking me to put it on. Then, when my doctor came in, he pulled his down when he saw I didn’t have mine on. I felt like the angels were singing.
My sister, who is bolder than I, says when she goes to a medical facility that requires masks and someone reminds her to put one on, she just politely says "thank you" and then ignores them. After which they just...drop it.
Not true; give it a shot. In left-wing enclave of VA near DC mask were strictly required and handed out at check-in by a clerk behind thick plexiglass, which reminded of bank tellers in NYC in the 1980s. I ignored it and nobody said peep.
The masquerade will never end for a sizeable minority. Just look at the top “recommended” comments on the article. There is literally nothing that could persuade these people that masks don’t work. They are zealots through and through. You’d do just as well trying to persuade ISIS members that there is no Allah.
So that’s your price then. The thought that you might be asked to leave or escorted out. Lol. BFD. Ask them if the Standard of Care for their “healthcare facility” is obstruction of airways and forced rebreathing of one’s own exhaust. If it is, you really don’t need them, now do you?
Very true. I work in a large hospital in California and it’s still the dark days of 2020 here. Masks are required everywhere but the break room if you are eating. Most disturbing is how much of the staff is on board with the mandates and believes they are “stopping the spread “.
I've noticed a clear change where I am personally. Mandatory signs being replaced with optional signs. Even in places where mandatory signs still exist, it really isn't even being policed.
Have you ever asked? It doesn’t hurt to ask. I had an oral surgery appt the other day and the message said to wear a mask, the door said to wear a mask…I didn’t as I refuse but when I got inside no one was wearing a mask.
just returned from the Heart doc with daddy this afternoon, We both wore our stupid baggy masks. We we got back out side of the building, my dad said, I am sick of this masking business LOL
I had to go in for a routine medical procedure yesterday and beforehand I checked out the facilities and saw they had a mask policy plastered loud and proud on their website. I was resigned to diapering up (irony, considering the type of procedure I was having, iykwim).
I got there and there was a "MASKS REQUIRED" sign on the door... but when I walked in only about 10% of the people inside were masked up. It was glorious not to have to play that game.
At this point, it really is just a sign of psychological issues on the part of the wearers and executive bossiness on the part of the people in charge who keep wanting to force it. That's it and that's all. Normal people have no time for that anymore.
This NYT piece is another one that sort of admits they were wrong while still defending their position.
“What’s more, the analysis does not prove that proper masks, properly worn, had no benefit at an individual level. People may have good personal reasons to wear masks, and they may have the discipline to wear them consistently. Their choices are their own.”
See, masks still work if you would only wear them right. Also, personal choice! (Uh, where was the personal choice to NOT wear a mask?)
“Yet there was never a chance that mask mandates in the United States would get anywhere close to 100 percent compliance, or that people would or could wear masks in a way that would meaningfully reduce transmission.”
And then the reader comments.... People are not reacting well to being told their belief in masks may have been misguided. Lots of “I still wear my mask and never got covid!”
Lol! Unsurprisingly, the argument has it exactly backwards. Ideology was the overriding reason people accepted, pushed and continue to cling to masks. Those of us who rejected them did it almost in every case based on science, basic human rights, and just plain common sense.
More specifically, New York Times readers (and probably lots of bots and paid trolls). These people proliferate in my area of NYC, but fortunately are but a small fraction of people in general.
Exactly! I find articles like this almost more infuriating than the blatant propaganda that preceded them. This too is a psychologically manipulative, thoroughly dishonest form of ongoing propaganda disguised as...I don't even know what...carefully designed to allow a quick pivot back to mandatory masks and the rest of the psyop the moment their paymasters demand it.
I have been at this mask game a long time. When the hospital mandated the flu vaccine or wear a mask, I opted to wear the mask. When my coworkers lined up like sheep to take the flu vaccine the number one reason for compliance, “I couldn’t wear a mask for 12 hours!“ When the hospitals mandated take the Covid vaccine or lose your job, I opted to lose my job. Now my coworkers are jabbed and wearing masks for 12 hours! Every time you comply you give away more power!
But of course. This is straight out of 1984. Eastasia has always been at war with Oceana. No, wait a minute. Eastasia has never been at war with Oceana. And so it goes. Screens everywhere, even at the gas pump, so they can brainwash you even while you are pumping gas. So far I haven't seen any at our EV charging stations but that will come.
Remember the story of the emperor's new clothes? Well, I never liked the ending. What "really" happened was when the child cried out "but he has nothing on" he was quickly hustled away by people who said "we would like to talk to you about your concerns", taken to a room, sat down, and told "you need to listen to us" when he started to talk. If he (or she) was so dense or stubborn at this point, then behavior modification techniques, including drugs, would be used. The final step in this process would to make him simply disappear by locking him up in an institution. Of course, this has never been done anywhere in the world and especially not here, right?
On the ground, there's still quite a bit of lunacy. Yesterday as I was taking a stroll outside, I saw a lady with mask scootched down her chin. When she saw someone walking towards her, she pulled it up over her face double time.
These people's minds have been blenderized. I suspect they will never get better.
I’m one of the unclean/pure bloods, part of the resistance.
Each time I see something like this and am forced to acknowledge that those around me just don’t care or lack the critical thinking skills to see the constant spin and inconsistencies….or worse still, some see it, but selfishly ignore it because the nonsense hasn’t touched their lives yet or exacted a price…..each time, my heart dies a little more and I wonder about the fate of mankind. Are we that lost…disconnected from the reality before us? I cringe….and yes, my anger grows as well, perhaps out of frustration that for so many truth is mutable, a prostitute employed by those who wish to manipulate. And we allow it, have allowed it on this grand scale into the intimate spaces of our lives.
Just posted this comment on the NYT op-Ed. We’ll see if it sneaks past the “moderators.” Based on past experience, I’m skeptical. Here it is:
“I’ve repeatedly had my comments censored on this website for years now for saying exactly this. Meanwhile, I’ve watched as the top “recommended” comments on article after article display unwavering confidence in the efficacy of masks and the immorality, evilness even, of those, like me, who do not share their faith.
This newspaper has constantly fed fanaticism over the masking issue, misinforming it’s readership and exacerbating partisan hatred. In what other areas is this paper providing a similar disservice to its readers and to society at large? I used to read the NYT to learn what’s happening in the world. Now I read it only to learn what’s happening in the Twitter-addled minds of the cloistered elites seeking constantly to assert more and more control over our lives using pseudoscience and emotional blackmail.
Good on the Times for finally publishing something reasonable on the masking issue. Shame on the Times for putting ideological interests over the pursuit of truth time and time again over these tumultuous few years.”
Godspeed with your post, David. Well done, sir!
The rest of the commentariat are hysterically apoplectic at the mere suggestion that they've been duped and have been made to look like imbeciles for the past three years.
The top “recommended” comments on the article are deeply disturbing. Millions of brains have been broken. I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. There is literally nothing that could convince them that masks don’t work.
Or they're 'bots.
Would not surprise me that there are bots in there. On the other hand, I actually know some vaxxed to the max people who ardently believe masks work and that the NYT has been doing a bangup job of professional reporting. I mean, the crazy is really crazy.
I know people like that as well. When I went to the local lab for a routine blood draw, I had to mask up. Argh!
Oh, believe me I understand! I live in the heart of covidistan in the PNW. I saw a woman walking alone, outdoors, with her surgical mask pulled down to her chin so she could take a puff on her cigarette. Compliance poster child! (Though she appeared middle-aged).
clearly, they have become NPCs
I did the math about masks years ago.
How big is a corona virus particle?
About 150 nanometers.
How big are the holes in a n95 mask?
300 nanometers.
How many virus particles must you be exposed to for infection to happen?
Moot question.
In my experience, most who are now masked are wearing them for psychological reasons. Effectiveness in preventing disease is quite irrelevant to these people. They would no sooner take off their masks in public than they would their clothes.
They even admit to me that it is purely psychological, and that they know they're being irrational. By the way. I'm a practicing nudist, so I've been aware for a long time of the irrationality of the human mind when it comes to non-sexual nude behavior. I will just have to accept that face masks will now join the other absurd virtue signaling of modesty.
The top recommended comments on the article are the type of vapid lunacy that would physically arouse Feigl-Ding and Topol. Dr. Fauci would pass out from "the vapors" reading that crap.
Hotez might actually be able to see his member protruding from below his belly!
Too. Effing. Funny. Well done, sir!
They were always broken. The mandates just meant they didn't have to keep the mask of respecting others on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65xLByzT1l0
The end time story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwu34G3R0pw
Brenda Weltner gives an interpretation.
Humpty Dumpty will never go back together again.
Over the weekend my wife and I got together with a friend, and eventually the subject of masks came up. I mentioned the recent study showing that masks basically accomplish nothing. Not only had she not heard about the study, but it was clear that she had never even considered the notion that masks could be anything but wonderful for preventing sickness. Nobody in her life had ever mentioned such a thing before.
I like to think that I planted a notion in her mind that might make her look more critically at the issue in the future. And a lot of people need that nudge to get them moving in the right direction. So keep nudging.
It's utterly bizarre. I bought a cycle pollution mask at the start of the scamdemic, it arrived and had valves on it for the air to escape. I thought, "that's a bit shit, then I realized that the surgical masks had bigger gaps at the side. There was never any sort of mandate on the type of mask you had to wear, only that you had to wear one. It was all psychological to keep up the illusion of a pandemic.
Yes visual fear tactic for the gullible and uniformed.
It also keeps people from talking to one another. That is useful if you want people to not resist
Here in San Francisco there were signs saying that masks with values were not allowed.
Pretty sure the US airlines wouldn't allow that type either.
Back when the US airlines were on the mask-holian B.S. I saw people get told that their masks with valves were insufficient. (Now, there are some good jokes amid that lunacy, but I am not going to use them, right now anyway.)
When I "nudge" almost any of my friends, and some of my family, they tend to recite some B.S. straight off the CDC website. Evidently, you've got smarter friends!
Bring up Sweden and lockdowns and the response is almost always the "worse than [cherrypicked] neighbors".
Finland and Norway's lockdowns were minimal - Finland closed schools and public buildings for two weeks, that was about it. After 3 years I think Sweden's excess deaths is least of the 4 Scandinavian countries.
Same here. Or they just go quiet.
Bet she owns a TV.
Was just in the grocery store yesterday and more than half of the people were still wearing masks including still masking their children. I don't think there is any article even one from the NY Times that will change their minds at this point. They will be masking forever.
If you really want to be depressed, take transit in San Francisco. At least 80% were masked on my roundtrip yesterday.
True that, can attest. Also same n East Bay.
I sincerely hope not. But if they persist, it is the duty of every bare faced denier to impress upon such people the illogicality of masking.
AND RESIST THIS TIME
It’s so so sad. Even people they know, who live in other countries, with other rules (my kids only ever masked on airplanes), cannot drill into their closed minds. Dan niet hè?
WOW! Here in Lancaster Co. PA, you may see one or two per store... 99% of people are no longer masking... dr's offices and hospitals are the exception, for some stupid reason. Make the sick wear a mask if needed in the waiting room, but the healthy? Dumb. Many years ago, I would have to take my kids to the Dr, and often thought how the waiting room was a germ bed with so many hacking and sneezing people... yet nothing was ever done about that... seems to me if you are coming to the Dr with something highly contagious a mask might not be a bad idea, otherwise...
It is a bad idea. Not healthy
False sense I’d security
And I love it when they take it off to cough or sneeze
I'm originally from York Co. PA. I have some nieces and nephews who live there and in Bernville. They are definitely not enlightened, though I don't think they wear masks at least.
NM, home of the bomb and the masks. Very few people here, especially in government because that's where they get their paychecks, gives a rats about the Los Alamos National Lab working on pit production. That means making new triggers for nuclear weapons. They will have to ship plutonium across the Southern US on rickety, old rail lines and in trucks.What could possibly go wrong? Oh, wait, Palestine, Ohio. But they are death on their mask wearing while walking in a grocery store or across a restaurant (until they sit down).
It's true in the bastion of liberalism, Santa Fe, NM. Our governor Wuhan Lujan has relentlessly promoted the BS from the start. The local papers slavishly followed her lead.
What a pity that such a wonderful state as New Mexico should have such people in charge, maybe you should all think of moving to South Dakota if you can tolerate the cold winters.
Mercy. I'm thinking of Florida. Not really. I'm old, and my husband died 5 1/2 years ago. I have a guy who takes care of my place and is a titular caregiver for me. I can't wrap my head around moving after 50 years in one house.
Yes, you're right. It's out of the question to move now, but it must be a huge disappointment to you to see what has happened to the leadership of your great state. I guess it's because it was discovered by so many out of state liberal luvvies who then voted in people like them who had no appreciation of New Mexico's frontier spirit.
Just remember that it’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Or amongst my generation, “ admit” that they were fooled.
Excellent letter!
You should ask them if children should be told the truth and if masking them for two fucking years was a hideous mistake made by cowardly adults.
Ask them if they're proud of promoting child abuse.
And creating a generation of paranoid germaphobic hypochondriacs!!
and maybe serial killers and/or bank robbers
And Shrinks, there will be a lot of therapists needed
Very good point
Excellent response 👏👏👏
Update: the “moderators” zapped me again. The comments section is full of nonsensical vitriol against the “anti-maskers,” but apparently my comment violates the “civility” policy. These people are psychotic.
What?!
There seems to be a prohibition on broadly criticizing NYT coverage of an issue in the comments. I’ve had many similar comments censored. These people are totalitarian to the core.
Yeah. I don't know if a soft landing is going to be possible.
It's amazing to me that so called liberals no longer understand the threat of censorship to our republic
I just want to say congratulations on your persistence within the New York Times comment section, that is the front line against the Branch Covidians and as frustrating as it must have been at times, it's days like this you earn your reward.
AMEN!
I'm going to borrow "Twitter-addled".
Bravo! Very well said!
Not "ideological," financial.
They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and are now pretending they’re just putting a stolen cookie back.
I notice they’re still perpetuating the use of name-calling (“conspiracy theorists” and “quack-cure peddlers”) and will pull those tricks out of their bag to lob at anyone who questions the next narrative.
The only way to defend against this tactic is to let the bullets pass through you. That’s when you realize they were just imaginary, and they’ll never work to silence you again:
• “Letter to a Mainstream Straddler: Live Not by Half-Lies” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-mainstream-straddler)
You are totally correct and this is a typical mainstream media m.o.-- the whoops, my bad, now let's all make up and forget this ever happened.
However, they aren't really walking anything back at all because the second another pandemic is declared, and the WHO, Bill Gates, etc...have already said another pandemic is on the horizon (2024 election year?), ALL of the mandates will come back with a vengeance including the masks. There will be a new and improved study that debunks the current NY Times article declaring that masks actually do work for *this* virus when worn properly, or double/triple masked, or wearing N95's only, or if worn with goggles and a butt plug, whatever it takes to push the fear so you'll take the next vaccine.
I believe that articles like this are also designed to make you think we are all finally in the clear and that mandates are a thing of the past never to return. It's a sleight of hand to get you to take you eye off the ball which is Biden attempting to hand over U.S. sovereignty to the World Health Org who you can bet will bring those masks back. They want you to relax and feel like things are finally getting back to normal when the fact is the powers that be will clamp down 100x harder the next go around.
Here's how you know there's still a possibility that masks come back:
Go ask one of your friends not associated here if they think masking children was wrong.
Their reply will be "who's talking about mask mandates? "...or something similar
My friends refuse to talk about anything of the last 3 years.
"It's over now, move on."
Then we get a group message a couple of days later
"I just tested positive hope I didn't infect anyone"
"Ohh, hope you are OK, thanks for letting us know"
Ugh I hate this. Out to dinner with people who got the shot to travel and we are bemoaning the fact that my hubs cannot to this day legally enter the USA to visit my family.
“Wow I haven’t heard anyone talking about COVID for ages! We don’t even think about it anymore!”
Then crickets. No sympathy, no questions, nothing. End of subject. We stopped going out with them.
It's amazing, the biggest "event" in our lifetimes and they want to pretend it didn't happen. I look at these people differently now, feels a little lonely to be honest. I would like some friends that aren't so fucking weak.
These are the people who would sell you out in a heartbeat. No matter what they do to redeem themselves, I will never feel safe around them ever again.
I’m sorry but don’t trust them. They will willingly turn on you
I couldn't agree more.
Are you in the US? Are you a citizen? I was thankful I was never refused entry as a citizen, but to deny the right to travel and right to family life for a spouse is unacceptable. CCP practices indeed. We spent a couple years navigating the various and changing rules for travel and even now that everyone but the US is temporarily done with the charade, I have a nasty after taste concerning some countries. Never say never, but I have a long memory. If you can be principled it's the way to be, but family is family and while there are limits to what I am prepared to do, sometimes things need to be done to survive in this world. I would never advise anyone to take the shot, but getting a fake card at this point is probably what we need to do. Mom isn't getting any younger and neither are her grandkids....
I've told my friends that it was like watching the zoo when I saw them walking around with a mask.
They don't like that one.
But really it was just a feeling of sorrow for me to see all the "animals" in the "zoo".
I reply little later.
But I'm glad you're pimping this.
Reminded me too get the book out in my interwebz sphere
"Chulo"
bought 100 to distribute to employees. Now I have my wife reading it....seriously...lol
Substack is being attacked by the goobermint goons.
Dead serious. Something is rotten in Denmark. I can tell you this from the IT I've developed over the years for my biz. There are some tell tale signs.
Authors should plan accordingly imo. If I were them I wouldn't want to be caught flat footed.
Alright. I have this book on 6 other Stacks.
Maybe I have enough influence to get people to pick it up?
🎯
Spot on, MyCovidBubble. We're in the occasional indulgences phase of Biderman's Chart of Coercion:
• “Letter to a Tyrant” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-tyrant)
Look forward to reading this! Love your writing.
Thanks, MyCovidBubble, and I hope you enjoy it!
When in doubt provide a modelling study.
See if you can find one talking head on TV for two years that didn't start a segment about mask this way:
"We KNOW masks work"
““conspiracy theorists” and “quack-cure peddlers””
Whom they just admitted were right therefore were the really “conspiracy theorists” and “quack-cure peddlers”?
Or is the NYT now a conspiracy news paper.
So confused
By design. This article was written to muddy the waters and confuse you.
Exactly.
My sister, who is an MD, seems to be cottoning on to the fact that I was right about COVID jabs (as were so many others). So she had to ask me about ivermectin. I said I would take it for COVID because there is some evidence of benefit and little risk. I think this put her mind at ease, allowing her to peg me as a nut case who just got lucky being right once.
My sister is a nurse and her husband a cardiologist. Both swear by mask and the vaccine/boosters because...well just because. She also insist if we had only “masked sooner” we could stopped the spread. Needless to say I’ve lost all respect for the both of them and much of the medical community.
Ask the cardiologist to perform an analysis of his 2021–2022 patient intake and myocarditis cases versus 2019–2020 and see what he finds out. He should have nothing to fear if he wishes to base his conclusions on the data.
He retired in 2019 so no dice. Sooo disappointing to see people you know are intelligent succumb to fear. Makes it easier to understand why so many good germans followed such a bad man once upon a time. Fear and herd mentality are powerful forces.
Dang.
Precisely what I covered in this piece:
• “Are You a Good German or a Badass German?” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/are-you-a-good-german-or-a-badass)
That is an admirable demonstration of humility and willingness to learn on the part of your sister! Please feel free to share these articles with her for further information, including an extensive list of peer-reviewed studies I compiled during the FDA’s horseshit disinformation campaign:
• “Letter to a Scientifically-Minded Friend” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-scientifically-minded)
• “Letter to Alex Berenson on World Ivermectin Day” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-alex-berenson-on-world)
You don't know her ... but it has got to be sobering when people are obligated to take the Nth dose of this stuff (now bivalent!) while everyone else is moving on.
I also got a lecture on how she has seen patients with ivermectin poisoning.
Me: Would it help to give them a prescription with proper dosing, rather than them squeezing out horse paste?
Answer: Hrumph.
I find that claim *extremely* difficult to believe. As I expose in “Letter to a Scientifically-Minded Friend,” the poison control center reports planted in the MSM were falsified, and “Rolling Stone,” et al even had to issue retractions. You can count the number of those reported as suffering ill side effects from ivermectin over nearly 40 years on two hands IIRC. She may have seen patients suffering from something else, but the likelihood that it was ivermectin poisoning is virtually nil.
😆👍
Erm, did you not notice that the author of the piece is one of the two (barely tolerated) NYT pet conservatives? This is NOT the NYT "coming around" to rationality or admitting error. This is the NYT throwing their vacuous vaca to the progressive piranhas. I'm not going there to check, but I imagine Stephens is getting seriously dragged in the comments.
Indeed he is.
So true, MAA. Great article.
Thank you, Dennis!
👏👏👏
So true.
‘... an unwitting accomplice to the genuine enemies of reason and science - conspiracy theorists and quack-cure peddlers...’. Accomplice? Inventor and leader of the pack surely.
Twisted it to make us look like the uneducated rubes. I am tempted to say that these people have no real brains, but they surely have no shame.
Beat me to it by a minute John.
I’ve been in more than one operating theater (operating room) where the surgeon said, “Surgical Masks are a Joke,” that they prevent a sneeze or cough from spewing saliva directly on the patient or blood from the patient spraying into the doctor’s mouth/nose, but that’s it.
I believe there was a study that analyzed masks in operating rooms specifically. The patients where the operating staff were masked had MORE bacterial infections than the unmasked. Not sure why that is, my guess is that the staff touches their mask and then that transfers to the patient.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/
Pretty sure masks are so the Surgeon doesn't accidentally lose his Junior Mints on a patient's duodenum.
Unless you expect someone's spleen to open up and squirt blood on you, there's no reason to mask up in the Grocery Store or even the Doctor's Office.
LOLOLOL.
Same bs with the TSA. they'd miss a suicide bomber if he wore his spleen on your shoes
"they'd miss a suicide bomber if he wore his spleen on your shoes"
Well, to be fair, that is a pretty low risk to national security.
Talk about traveling light!...:)
Lights and liver, laddy
Actually the spleen of an animal is called the "melts" for some reason. Lights are the lungs.
Don't forget baby aliens...there's always the possibility of baby aliens popping out. 🤷♂️
LOL!
There have been a number of studies over the years, starting back in 1975. All studies showed that masks made no difference or did more harm than good.
That’s why I was onto them from the beginning. They memory-holed the science that I was required to review every year. It was then that I knew this whole thing wasn’t about health.
High school biology baby! Didn’t need any experts explaining natural immunity to me. Sad indictment of the high school educations of most Americans.
Masks invariably trap a lot of food and environmental particles that people directly inhale all day, while impairing CO2-02 gas exchange. Inevitably, this toxic combination is a magnet for bacterial growth.
But don’t tell your cousin in nursing school what used to be common knowledge, because she “works in healthcare.” 🙄
I have what I've found to be a good counter to lazy pseudo-credentialism:
"So, you say I should defer to you because you 'work in health-care?' (To use your example.)
"Yes."
"Have you ever expressed opinions about teaching and how schools should be organised or how teachers should do their jobs?"
"Yes?" (Because everyone has an opinion on schools, for the last 50 years.)
"I have various degrees in didactics/pedagogy, economics, political science, sociology, linguistics, semantics/semiotics, the ideas of history/history of ideas and requisite sub-subjcts, and 25+ years of experience teaching all ages. What makes you qualified to have an opinion of teaching or on the subjects as such? Are you going to shut up about schools and teaching from now on?"
---
That usually ends any discussion or casual credentialism-intended-as-a-gag. Teaching can of course be replaced with any subject or skill where your knowledge/credentials are greater than the opponents. Style and form to be adapted depending on context of course.
burn!
Maybe the masks block some peripheral vision, leading to more mishaps.
If for some reason someone does sneeze on you, then aren’t you just breathing those germs in and out constantly vs if you weren’t wearing a mask? I’ve wondered this for 3 years…
My retort back during the dark ages of 2020 was, "My mother already taught me when I was a little kid not to sneeze in anyone's face, so I think you are OK if I don't wear it."
In 2019 or so, a passerby on the sidewalk was coughing massively in my direction. I remember thinking specifically, "Man, I hope I don't get sick from that." A few days later I was lying sick in bed with a summer flu. Life has always involved low levels of biowarfare...
My surgeon husband believes same.
agree.
I did many hours in OR years ago
kind of odd to think it does much else
Wow, a "mask off" moment! Too bad Emily Oster says we need amnesty, or else some real introspection and accountability might occur.
Asking for amnesty is a recognition of guilt. Forgiveness, not amnesty may be considered AFTER they make it all good and restore the country to the to the way it was before all the damage they caused to people's lives, damage done to children learning and development by the lockdowns, the damage to the economy of the country. But there is the other thing. They need to CURE the damage the shots they made and coerced people to take. That means restore all the damaged people to normal health and normal expected life spans. Oh, yeah, how will they compensate families for the deaths of their loved ones? Bottom Line: THEY WROTE CHECK THEY CAN NOT COVER. Sorry, not sorry, no forgiveness or amnesty for you!
"Asking for amnesty is a recognition of guilt"
But without the stigma of actually _acknowledging_ guilt, nor apologizing for it.
First tell me you're sorry for being an authoritarian thug and you will try not to do that ever again. Then MAYBE we can talk.
OTOH, if you're the CDC, I think it's time to cut off funding. CDC, it should be noted stands for the Center for DISEASE Control. They didn't see COVID coming. They didn't see the recent monkey pox outbreak coming. They surely didn't mitigate their impact in any meaningful way. IF they should somehow be allowed to keep operating, then first thing: No More F#@&ing Gun Studies. Focus on your task.
I reckon if they want to study guns from the muzzle end, I could be persuaded to oblige them.
Dependent on the caliber, wouldn't have to be too close.
We need to have more studies on how not prosecuting violent people allows them to buy guns and do violence en masse.
"In my opinion, this child don't need to have his head shrunk at all. Juvenile delinquency is purely a social disease."
- A-Rab from 'Gee, Officer Krupke,' West Side Story (possible comma faux pas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TT4jnnWys
Watching the video reminds me that criminal deviant yutes come in many colors including... white.
So surely it's racism. *nods vigorously*
CDC and FDA will not come clean to regain the public trust. If they become transparent, they would open themselves for law suits and administrative punishment. Their leadership hold to their well-paid jobs with their claws. Their work force consists from diversity hires not capable of critical thinking. Both agencies should be demolished. This will not happen under the current administration that is in bed with BigPharma, legacy media, and totalitarian deep state. We have to avoid any vaccines now on, and be suspicious of the medical providers. Patients must sue for damages but the corrupted system will continue defending itself.
Sadly, the masquerade is not over in the healthcare arena. I have an appointment today for an annual wellness exam and I've been reminded in every email and automated phone call that "face coverings are required in all our facilities." I would love to be the one that raises the bs flag and plops down in the waiting area maskless. But I have no doubt I would be asked to leave and/or escorted out. And it is not possible to find a different provider because in our area, one healthcare conglomerate has an fairly perfect monopoly. So I may have to accept that I am "unclean" for the rest of my life, or until we move to a different state.
I showed up with a very loose fitting face covering for every single stupid appointment my father has had. Any appointments for myself I do as well, just a very loose fitting mask that keeps falling down. I cannot breathe, What is even more cruel are the patients with CHF like my 99 yo dad. He wears a mask and can barely breathe. panting and puffing and making a big scene. We remove them when no one else is around. and obviously as soon as we get outside in fresh air.
The whole charade is ridiculous and disgusting
that is exactly how ridiculous it is! tight-fitting masks don't "work," and loose-fitting masks "don't work" just as well as the tight-fitting ones.
During the first year, before the N-95s became de rigueur, when fabric masks were all the rage, I made myself one out of patterned silk voile and tulle. Totally full of holes and breathable, and no one looked carefully because the patterned fabric made it look impermeable, and only one person noticed and complimented me -- and hers was a silk scarf tied bandit-fashion. I could not breathe otherwise. I live in an area of total mask compliance and yelling Karens. Oh, that idiocy was so miserable!!!!!
That it still persists in medical settings, of all places, is cognitively dissonant in a very disturbing way. Even more so because it's by design.
Brilliant. I wish that I had thought of that idea, I could have avoided a lot of aggravation. But maybe it was just as well I didn't as the covidiots always came off second best from altercations with me and would therefore hesitate to challenge others.
Whenever anybody gives me that, I tell them the story about how the hospital didn't require them when my son was delivered in september. 48 hours roaming around the mother baby side, and even a visit to the 'transition' area of the nicu(nothing wrong with baby just a stupid nurse), only wore a mask in the OR. That story with a little light incredulousness usually makes them feel pretty silly at the eye doctor or whoever.
oh yeah... the eye doctor. masks fogging up the lenses on their equipment so you can't get an accurate reading. Then they say, oh, it's OK to pull your mask down from your nose, but be sure to keep it covering your mouth and chin! Just for a couple minutes while we check your prescription. What the heck is running through their minds, I wonder? Can we trust their judgment on medical advice since they don't grasp that this is nonsensical?
When I go to the eye doctor they want to put tape across the top of the mask to keep from fogging, I called out the BS and no problem since. Just refuse! They want to get paid ya know!
Yeah, it is the ones who are borderline members of the 'medical community' who are strictest so that you remember that they are real medical people. The eye doctors are big on it. I bet people that check hearing take it real seriously. When people like that see you in a mask they feel like they moved up the ladder a little.
It’s good because it reminds us that maybe their not as medically smart as we thought
It took me a while, but late last year I finally found a PCP who isn't a mask or vaccine totalitarian. I had to ask A LOT of people for references and suggestions, my dentist finally hooked me up with the right guy. You aren't going to find anyone via online searches, either, because Google won't let them be found and Yelp and other reviewers will delete favorable comments. The only downside with my new guy is that it's concierge care and he doesn't take insurance, but the membership and the cost of the services is affordable, at least to me.
I used to go to a PCP who was part of a large hospital chain and they are still crazy Nazis, by design. That's the whole point of corporate healthcare, honestly. Force the doctors to be employees and not entrepreneurs and they'll say and do anything to keep their job.
Shockingly, most people do not believe that about docs being so lockstep compliant. They are.
I am glad you found a good doc. I have several now…. Since I was forced to take the first two shots yes I was pressured. I am a dope, get over it. Now I have RA. Never had this shit before. Now I am taking 5mg of prednisone to take the edge off, I eat better and can actually move my joints. Last year it was bad.
Anyway, eventually I am sure they will deny me refills and I will have to score it on the streets of loudoun county
My own doctors do not play that mask game, but dads heart doc practice does. It is a huge pain in the neckkkk
wear a lace face mask next time. they have never specified the thickness or weave. tell them you're wearing a face mask. they have to accept it. it's how stupid it is.
Mine is just about lace. It is very sheer cotton lawn from my very own sewingroom.
I love this! I used to cut out the 2nd ply out of the surgical masks to see patients during the height of the hysteria, even wore it to the outpatient center when I got a colonoscopy, you could see me talk and smile, nobody said a word! The sheeple registered "face mask on" not the thickness or weave. I became more scared of THEM than of covid!
I’ve been taking my Dad in without a mask for myself but provided him an “unmask”. Last visit he decided not to wear one Go Dad!
Meanwhile in my little corner of Florida, I am a physician and I refused to wear a mask the day DeSantis ended the PHE on 4/24/21, yet the CDC persists to this day...I have become famous for the no-mask policy in my office and my patients are more trusting and happy with me than they have ever been. I refuse to mask when I go to other doctors' offices and have been thrown out of one. I will never mask again. I go to the doctors that won't mask either. It's the hospital affiliated ones that are sheep. Seek out independent counsel!!!!
Bravo! A friend of mine has recently started working at a doctor's office. Both she and the doctor buck the stupid masks rules and go maskless. She told me that people come in wearing masks, and when they see her smiling, maskless face, they pull them off in relief. People like you provide a little oasis in the world of medical craziness.
YAAAASSSS!!!
Same with the group I go to: Sterling Family Practice. No masks. None
Not to be confused with the HUGE group practice, Leesburg-Sterling Family Practice.
That group are completely nuts
Proud of you!
do you really "need" that annual "wellness" exam?
This is a matter for each individual to decide for him/herself.
I'm not alone in putting off the annual checkup. I'd like the craziness to go away first (maybe it won't), and I don't want any pesky questions about vaxx status or pills pushed on me.
Maybe I won't get all of the screening tests done, but we are now learning that many of them do not bring about better outcomes (early detection). Some do. Anyway, something to ponder.
As far as I can tell, I'm healthy. And I don't worry about it.
I have to go to medical facilities quite a bit, when I take my elderly parents to their appointments or they go to the hospital (often, unfortunately). I cannot stand wearing the masks, and yes, they do escort people out. It's maddening.
I recently received one of those reminder checks before an appointment. I promptly called and cancelled my appointment. When asked if I would like to reschedule I responded no. If my doctors can't understand that masking doesn't work. Why would I trust them on matters related to my personal health as their reasoning abilities are subpar.
I asked my brother-in-law the anaesthesiologist about this, and whether he saw any pushback among his colleagues.
No, was his reply, doctors are completely used to doing as they are told.
Same sentiment here. I won't participate in their charades any longer. I have a friend who recently had a hip replacement. I am her DPOA-HC, etc. I accompanied her to the surgery etc. Masks were supposed to be worn in the hospital, but it was not enforced by any clinician there. In fact, most had none on and those that did were wearing them improperly. I figured if they aren't wearing them then neither am I. Once the surgery was done and she was in recovery, I came back in the hospital and had a volunteer at the desk thrust one in my face. I laughed at her, took it and took a long time to put it on. Once I got out of sight of her, I took it off, went up to the OR suite and another word wasn't said.
At several follow-up appointments, the person at the desk was the mask gestapo, thrusting the box in your face when you walked in. Once we went back to the exam area, very few clinicians had them on and I removed mine. When we left, I didn't wear it out of course and dared the mask nazi to say anything to me.
It's all a sick joke and unless I need emergency care, I won't put myself through the BS or will I support it with my insurance dollars.
If masks worked, why weren't they recommending them all along, for years, during every flu season, etc? It begs the question, were they negligent then or are they lying now? It's one or the other.
Ooops! I dropped it on the floor. I'll need another one if you insist I wear one. Oops, I'm so clumsy! Guess I'll need yet another one. What? Of course I won't pick one of them up off the floor and use it. Do you know how many germs there are on floors? [two mask later] Ah, there we go this one must fit better! Have a nice day! [slips around the nearest corner and disposes of muzzle in nearest trash can].
I haven't been to a doctor for any screening since 2019 and I don't plan to. My last well check I had all of blood work done. While there, my doctor pushed boosters for whooping cough, tetanus, and HPV. I said no to all of it since I have already those shots and I didn't see the point of getting them all again. Shortly after, the nurse walked in with the shots anyway and tried to give them to me. I got up and walked out and never went back. This was before Covid so I can only imagine what it is like now. During Covid in 2021, I had planned on getting my annual mammogram and was told that I had to show proof of vaccination FOR CANCER SCREENING so I didn't go and haven't been back since.
I feel like our entire healthcare industry is in complete collapse.
that sounds a bit crazy that you are at the age where an HPV vaccine would be recommended, AND annual mammograms.
HPV vaccines (introduced in 2006) is not recommended across the board for people older than 26. People age 27-45 might want to get one, but it is thought to be less effective once a person is already sexually active, because of the likelihood of prior exposure to HPV. Once the initial series is completed, boosters are NOT indicated, as this vaccine is considered to offer long-term protection.
The first screening mammogram is recommended at age 40, but only regular, "every two years" for women 50 to 75.
If you are being pushed to get an HPV booster after having received the initial series, that is just nuts. As well, if you are being pushed to get annual mammograms (unless you have a prior cancer history that they want to keep on top of for some reason), that is excessive.
This is just the current CDC recommendations. As I think many of us are figuring out, HPV vaccines are very risky and not that effective, and mammograms are not risk-free.
Your instincts of danger are correct: Run!
Yes to more information needed on the risks of yearly mammograms! I have two immediate family members who had breast cancer and so came back to The Netherlands all ging ho about getting an annual exam and my GP told me they have drastically reduced the recommendations, even with family history. Now you can always wonder about money saving in a socialized medicine situation, but causing cancer is definitely not cost effective, so there’s that.
I have been reading a lot out there on yearly mammo's and there is more coming out that it's totally unnecessary for anyone without a family history or a history of cancer yet we are told we must get one every year no matter what. It's a huge cash cow and the medical industrial complex makes even more money if you get an abnormal reading as this sets off an entire series of expensive tests and diagnostics (see my comment on this in this thread). More is coming out that most low grade breast cancers never needed radiation or chemo, that many cancers are so slow growing that treating them is pointless. You'll outlive it, basically. Yet, women are being told they have to get chemo or they'll die so they go through chemo which makes them far sicker than a non-spreading cancer ever would. Meanwhile, the medical industrial complex makes lots and lots of $$
I haven't been to a doctor in over 20 years except for when I had to take my elderly mother in to see one.
Agree! I even said to my doctor that, as long term married woman in a committed relationship who has already tested negative for HPV, WHY do I need this vaccine at my age? He basically said, well, if you don't want it you don't have to take it and that's it. It's clear the doctors are getting $ for each vax administered just like they go during Covid. That, or they just follow CDC guidelines which are designed to over test and over treat.
I truly believe that we are a society suffering from over diagnosis, over vaccination and over treatment. For women getting mammograms it's especially over diagnosed now that mammo screening is done by 3D tomosynthesis which can pick up even the tiniest irregularity which isn't even cancer. This happened to me after a 3D mammo. Was told that I most certainly had cancer. Was devastated. Most stressful time of my life. Even made an appointment with a breast surgeon. Thought I was going to die. Went and had a biopsy. Results come back after 5 days of waiting which was pure hell and all it was was inflamed tissue, nothing even close to cancer. Oh, and I got a bill for 15 thousand dollars for the privilege of all of this treatment and the stress of thinking I was dying.
And people wonder why we don't trust doctors anymore.
your mammogram story is so sickening. And all of the repeat "call back" mammograms contribute to cancer (maybe the technology has improved since I went through my mammogram scare 17 years ago and decided to stop getting them).
I have now had two friends tell me with that "I'm a victim too" tone in their voice, "I have cancer and I'm getting a double mastectomy. Thank God they caught it early -- it is only stage one." Or, "they picked up diffuse cancer with no particular tumors, so thank God they caught it and I had a mastectomy." These women didn't have cancer!!!!!! The fear they place in us is criminal, and yes, as a friend once told me, "they will make you merchandise" -- i.e., we are generators of profits -- keep us alive and "sick" for as long as possible, drag out the misery, debility and drain us of every dollar, then we are allowed (or made to) die.
Well, I decided I would rather die than allow the medical system to poison, mutilate and scare me to death. Even if I should have some undiagnosed "something" that I will die of, I enjoy each day and I'm not going to spend my life going from doctor to doctor or in medical facilities.
I fear that more than I fear any illness or death.
Exactly! Exactly!
I wouldn't bet on it. I still see plenty of signs like that and haven't worn a mask in over a year. Corporate CYA is a very different thing from receptionists who believe in masks. Show your face, if they hand you a mask use a line like this, 'You guys are still doing that? Wow. It's like being in the past.' not aggressively just like surprised, but take it and stuff it in your pocket on your way back to your seat. If they say something else pull it out and wave like oh yeah i forgot and then put it back in your pocket after you walk by.
Every little push towards freedom is one less push the next guy has to push to be free.
I have an appointment at a "healthcare" facility in about three weeks. In about a week, I'll be calling to see if masks are still required. I'll be canceling if they are...
Each time I’ve had a medical appointment in the past couple of years, I am handed a mask at check-in (because aI sure don’t OWN any). When they asked me to put it on, I say “OK” and don’t. Sometimes, that’s that. If they persist, I will put it on under my nose.
At an last appointment this month, I went back with the nurse, had vitals checked, and waited for the doctor without her asking me to put it on. Then, when my doctor came in, he pulled his down when he saw I didn’t have mine on. I felt like the angels were singing.
My sister, who is bolder than I, says when she goes to a medical facility that requires masks and someone reminds her to put one on, she just politely says "thank you" and then ignores them. After which they just...drop it.
Not true; give it a shot. In left-wing enclave of VA near DC mask were strictly required and handed out at check-in by a clerk behind thick plexiglass, which reminded of bank tellers in NYC in the 1980s. I ignored it and nobody said peep.
The masquerade will never end for a sizeable minority. Just look at the top “recommended” comments on the article. There is literally nothing that could persuade these people that masks don’t work. They are zealots through and through. You’d do just as well trying to persuade ISIS members that there is no Allah.
So that’s your price then. The thought that you might be asked to leave or escorted out. Lol. BFD. Ask them if the Standard of Care for their “healthcare facility” is obstruction of airways and forced rebreathing of one’s own exhaust. If it is, you really don’t need them, now do you?
Very true. I work in a large hospital in California and it’s still the dark days of 2020 here. Masks are required everywhere but the break room if you are eating. Most disturbing is how much of the staff is on board with the mandates and believes they are “stopping the spread “.
I've noticed a clear change where I am personally. Mandatory signs being replaced with optional signs. Even in places where mandatory signs still exist, it really isn't even being policed.
I did it yesterday. They offered me a mask even. I politely refused.
Then my doctor showed up--maskless
Very happy. A little less fear, a little more humanity all around. Good for you .
Yay!!!
Have you ever asked? It doesn’t hurt to ask. I had an oral surgery appt the other day and the message said to wear a mask, the door said to wear a mask…I didn’t as I refuse but when I got inside no one was wearing a mask.
just returned from the Heart doc with daddy this afternoon, We both wore our stupid baggy masks. We we got back out side of the building, my dad said, I am sick of this masking business LOL
And Wakensky is STILL saying kids should be masked. We need to get rid of ALL the 3 letter agencies.
I had to go in for a routine medical procedure yesterday and beforehand I checked out the facilities and saw they had a mask policy plastered loud and proud on their website. I was resigned to diapering up (irony, considering the type of procedure I was having, iykwim).
I got there and there was a "MASKS REQUIRED" sign on the door... but when I walked in only about 10% of the people inside were masked up. It was glorious not to have to play that game.
At this point, it really is just a sign of psychological issues on the part of the wearers and executive bossiness on the part of the people in charge who keep wanting to force it. That's it and that's all. Normal people have no time for that anymore.
This NYT piece is another one that sort of admits they were wrong while still defending their position.
“What’s more, the analysis does not prove that proper masks, properly worn, had no benefit at an individual level. People may have good personal reasons to wear masks, and they may have the discipline to wear them consistently. Their choices are their own.”
See, masks still work if you would only wear them right. Also, personal choice! (Uh, where was the personal choice to NOT wear a mask?)
“Yet there was never a chance that mask mandates in the United States would get anywhere close to 100 percent compliance, or that people would or could wear masks in a way that would meaningfully reduce transmission.”
Again, if only people masked harder...
And then the reader comments.... People are not reacting well to being told their belief in masks may have been misguided. Lots of “I still wear my mask and never got covid!”
Now the argument appears to be that, the only reason that anyone rejected masks, vax, etc. is ideology.
As though no one thought that cloth masks would make poor virus filters on their own even before The NYT Op-Ed section declared them so.
And still they cling.
Lol! Unsurprisingly, the argument has it exactly backwards. Ideology was the overriding reason people accepted, pushed and continue to cling to masks. Those of us who rejected them did it almost in every case based on science, basic human rights, and just plain common sense.
"Ideology was the overriding reason people accepted, pushed and continue to cling to masks."
100% THIS
And they still are clinging for that same reason. "Sure, we were wrong but our experts all support our _other_ policies."
I think people started wearing masks out of fear, and then it quickly turned in to ideology.
"People are not reacting well.."
More specifically, New York Times readers (and probably lots of bots and paid trolls). These people proliferate in my area of NYC, but fortunately are but a small fraction of people in general.
A small fraction of people that have an extremely loud voice in online circles.
Exactly! I find articles like this almost more infuriating than the blatant propaganda that preceded them. This too is a psychologically manipulative, thoroughly dishonest form of ongoing propaganda disguised as...I don't even know what...carefully designed to allow a quick pivot back to mandatory masks and the rest of the psyop the moment their paymasters demand it.
I still see the masked driving alone, at grocery stores, and walking in the open air. And I’m in Texas!
Says a lot about where we are, and how this psyop is far from over.
Still couldn't help themselves though, could they? They are as bad as the CDC that they are trying to disparage! How ironic!
I have been at this mask game a long time. When the hospital mandated the flu vaccine or wear a mask, I opted to wear the mask. When my coworkers lined up like sheep to take the flu vaccine the number one reason for compliance, “I couldn’t wear a mask for 12 hours!“ When the hospitals mandated take the Covid vaccine or lose your job, I opted to lose my job. Now my coworkers are jabbed and wearing masks for 12 hours! Every time you comply you give away more power!
But of course. This is straight out of 1984. Eastasia has always been at war with Oceana. No, wait a minute. Eastasia has never been at war with Oceana. And so it goes. Screens everywhere, even at the gas pump, so they can brainwash you even while you are pumping gas. So far I haven't seen any at our EV charging stations but that will come.
Remember the story of the emperor's new clothes? Well, I never liked the ending. What "really" happened was when the child cried out "but he has nothing on" he was quickly hustled away by people who said "we would like to talk to you about your concerns", taken to a room, sat down, and told "you need to listen to us" when he started to talk. If he (or she) was so dense or stubborn at this point, then behavior modification techniques, including drugs, would be used. The final step in this process would to make him simply disappear by locking him up in an institution. Of course, this has never been done anywhere in the world and especially not here, right?
In reality, we have always been at war with Oceana.
On the ground, there's still quite a bit of lunacy. Yesterday as I was taking a stroll outside, I saw a lady with mask scootched down her chin. When she saw someone walking towards her, she pulled it up over her face double time.
These people's minds have been blenderized. I suspect they will never get better.
I’m one of the unclean/pure bloods, part of the resistance.
Each time I see something like this and am forced to acknowledge that those around me just don’t care or lack the critical thinking skills to see the constant spin and inconsistencies….or worse still, some see it, but selfishly ignore it because the nonsense hasn’t touched their lives yet or exacted a price…..each time, my heart dies a little more and I wonder about the fate of mankind. Are we that lost…disconnected from the reality before us? I cringe….and yes, my anger grows as well, perhaps out of frustration that for so many truth is mutable, a prostitute employed by those who wish to manipulate. And we allow it, have allowed it on this grand scale into the intimate spaces of our lives.
The apologies, surely, will NOT follow!
"We believed the science" will be everyone's excuse.
And they will continue "believing the science"