I spent a lot of time over the last year refreshing my knowledge about infectious diseases. I am a physician in private practice. I’ve worked in a surgical subspecialty for the last 25 years. I have a degree in molecular biology. I worked in a graduate program doing research on viruses before I went to medical school. There is an excellent book by a man named James Colgrove called “state of medical immunity”. About the history of Public health and vaccination campaigns in the United States. This and many other material have I reviewed over the past year. Measles: untreated measles can have a case fatality rate in young children As high as 30%. 100 or more years ago this was certainly the case. Measles remains one of the leading causes of death in young children around the world. The vaccine for measles while not 100% safe is extremely safe and effective. The measles vaccine has been tested and vetted for many decades. Untreated measles if it does not cause death can cause serious pneumonia, encephalitis, ear infections even blindness.
Rubella is a much less serious acute disease for young children who catch it. However if a woman is pregnant and catches rubella the fetus runs a significant risk of severe defects. Once again the rubella vaccine has been vetted for a long time.
Covid has a survival rate of 99.8%. The chance of a young healthy not at risk person under 55 dying from Covid is about the same or even less as a regular flu.
So for this doctor Wen to Mention these things in the same sentence shows utter lack of understanding And or complete ideological blindness
Your information on measles CFR is way off. Prior to the '64 measles vaxx, there were @ 4 million infections among children in the U.S. every year, almost all mild or asymptomatic, with about 400 deaths. Almost all of these deaths were in institutionalized adults-(with prisoner of war like diets), where the vaccine was originally tested. Globally, the WHO admits that their measles death numbers are guesstimates based on excess mortality and rates of vaccination- which is why Ukraine had a "measles epidemic" when they were in a civil war.
Yes i think you are correct. My stats were off. Measles has a relatively low CFR in the modern era. But there were many millions of cases. So why the vax then?
After polio, every childhood disease, no matter how mild (ie mumps) would be targeted. The first measles vcxx was a stand alone, but when the MMR was marketed ten or fifteen years later, the measles vax was declared ineffective, and the new booster recommended. I write at length about this in my MMR chapter in Mandatory Vaccinations= Totalitarian Inoculation.
But I was just emailing with an infectious disease physician professor at a New york medical medica college and he said that there were tens of thousands of hospitalizations for measles. There were thousands of cases of encephalitis some of which resulted in permanent brain damage.
Measles is rarely tested for, with a dozen or more pathogens that can case skin eruptions and encephalitis. There are at least 20 variants of measles. Disney Measles Mania- 2015, with tens of thousands possibly exposed over the Measles Mickey infection window, resulted in 160 or so cases from an Asian variant. Almost half the measles cases in the US that year, when tested much later by a Canadian lab were positive for the vaccine strain.
Measles and rubella are 'sterilizing' vaccines. They typically prevent these diseases unless there is an immune issue involved. CV vaxes are non sterilizing. You are injected with a form of the virus and you are infected. You now produce it and can pass it to others. The more boosters, the more virulent the virus will become and passed as well. The polio vaccine failed when it was injected and was discontinued...was a non-sterilizing vax. The oral version, which was sterilizing, prevented and halted polio since it involved the gastric system, where viruses typically enter the body.
No. So much wrong and you didn’t even answer my extremely simple question.
OPV is no longer given in the US. It is contaminated with oncogenic simian virus. IPV is injected. OPV is still widely used in the world and spreads vaccine derived polio.
The only measles vaccine is in the MMR-II. Merck is in a lawsuit for falsifying the efficacy data.
None of this changes the fact that the survival rate of measles and rubella is at least 99.8%
Yes from my understanding that is correct the measles and rubellaa vaxes confer long lasting sterilizing immunity . But there are still failures with the measles vaccine and there are still outbreaks even in the US. RNA upper respiratory viruses that have non human reservoirs generally arent amenable to vaxes that produce sterilizing immunity because they mutate into strains that are sufficiently different so as to evade the immune system. Once again dr Wen has it wrong. Covid is a completely different disease than measles or rubella.
I had blood work done this last pregnancy. I was vaccinated with MMR. I no longer have immunity to rubella. I couldn’t get vaccinated with MMR even if I wanted to while pregnant or breastfeeding. The vaccine absolutely does not provide lifelong immunity
I had immunity to chickenpox because I have robust durable LIFELONG immunity due to having the illness as a child
Take it easy! I am on your side. I Have not received the Covid vaccine. Neither have my two teenage children. I had Covid this past July, As did my older son. My wife got both pfizer shots in march 2021 against my advice got Covid as a breakthrough infection. We were all sick together at the same time. And my wife was the sickest of all three of us
Measles was and is one of the leading causes of death among children in the world. Prior to the modern medical era, prior to say 1940 measles had a very high case fatality rate especially among young children. It could’ve been as high as 25% or more. Now if somebody gets measles they were very good treatments. However it is still a very dangerous disease. And the vaccine does work , as do many vaccines.
I’m not excusing the behavior of these pharmaceutical companies.
In a more private voluntary society. For instance one which followed more an Anarcho capitalist principles, there would certainly be a wide array of vaccines available that would be extensively vetted and tested and would be extremely effective and safe.
It’s foolish to be against the idea of vaccines per se.
I’m against the merger of medicine in politics. If you mix medicine in politics you get politics!
I had measles as a child also. Bedridden for 2 or 3 weeks and then was taken to get vaccinated for it after I was fully recovered. Also got the MMR years later when I moved to a new school that required it.
drs get perks for vaccinating people. They push. A friend of mine turned down a few vaccinations pre-covid. Dr kept pushing one after the other on same visit. Including "well, you work with money. Coins are metal. You desperately need a tetanus booster". My friend, sadly, went for it.
What do you think the survival rate of rubella and measles is?
I spent a lot of time over the last year refreshing my knowledge about infectious diseases. I am a physician in private practice. I’ve worked in a surgical subspecialty for the last 25 years. I have a degree in molecular biology. I worked in a graduate program doing research on viruses before I went to medical school. There is an excellent book by a man named James Colgrove called “state of medical immunity”. About the history of Public health and vaccination campaigns in the United States. This and many other material have I reviewed over the past year. Measles: untreated measles can have a case fatality rate in young children As high as 30%. 100 or more years ago this was certainly the case. Measles remains one of the leading causes of death in young children around the world. The vaccine for measles while not 100% safe is extremely safe and effective. The measles vaccine has been tested and vetted for many decades. Untreated measles if it does not cause death can cause serious pneumonia, encephalitis, ear infections even blindness.
Rubella is a much less serious acute disease for young children who catch it. However if a woman is pregnant and catches rubella the fetus runs a significant risk of severe defects. Once again the rubella vaccine has been vetted for a long time.
Covid has a survival rate of 99.8%. The chance of a young healthy not at risk person under 55 dying from Covid is about the same or even less as a regular flu.
So for this doctor Wen to Mention these things in the same sentence shows utter lack of understanding And or complete ideological blindness
Your information on measles CFR is way off. Prior to the '64 measles vaxx, there were @ 4 million infections among children in the U.S. every year, almost all mild or asymptomatic, with about 400 deaths. Almost all of these deaths were in institutionalized adults-(with prisoner of war like diets), where the vaccine was originally tested. Globally, the WHO admits that their measles death numbers are guesstimates based on excess mortality and rates of vaccination- which is why Ukraine had a "measles epidemic" when they were in a civil war.
Yes i think you are correct. My stats were off. Measles has a relatively low CFR in the modern era. But there were many millions of cases. So why the vax then?
After polio, every childhood disease, no matter how mild (ie mumps) would be targeted. The first measles vcxx was a stand alone, but when the MMR was marketed ten or fifteen years later, the measles vax was declared ineffective, and the new booster recommended. I write at length about this in my MMR chapter in Mandatory Vaccinations= Totalitarian Inoculation.
But I was just emailing with an infectious disease physician professor at a New york medical medica college and he said that there were tens of thousands of hospitalizations for measles. There were thousands of cases of encephalitis some of which resulted in permanent brain damage.
Measles is rarely tested for, with a dozen or more pathogens that can case skin eruptions and encephalitis. There are at least 20 variants of measles. Disney Measles Mania- 2015, with tens of thousands possibly exposed over the Measles Mickey infection window, resulted in 160 or so cases from an Asian variant. Almost half the measles cases in the US that year, when tested much later by a Canadian lab were positive for the vaccine strain.
or an agenda that can be damaged by daylight
Again, what do you think the survival rate for measles and rubella is?
Measles and rubella are 'sterilizing' vaccines. They typically prevent these diseases unless there is an immune issue involved. CV vaxes are non sterilizing. You are injected with a form of the virus and you are infected. You now produce it and can pass it to others. The more boosters, the more virulent the virus will become and passed as well. The polio vaccine failed when it was injected and was discontinued...was a non-sterilizing vax. The oral version, which was sterilizing, prevented and halted polio since it involved the gastric system, where viruses typically enter the body.
No. So much wrong and you didn’t even answer my extremely simple question.
OPV is no longer given in the US. It is contaminated with oncogenic simian virus. IPV is injected. OPV is still widely used in the world and spreads vaccine derived polio.
The only measles vaccine is in the MMR-II. Merck is in a lawsuit for falsifying the efficacy data.
None of this changes the fact that the survival rate of measles and rubella is at least 99.8%
Yes from my understanding that is correct the measles and rubellaa vaxes confer long lasting sterilizing immunity . But there are still failures with the measles vaccine and there are still outbreaks even in the US. RNA upper respiratory viruses that have non human reservoirs generally arent amenable to vaxes that produce sterilizing immunity because they mutate into strains that are sufficiently different so as to evade the immune system. Once again dr Wen has it wrong. Covid is a completely different disease than measles or rubella.
I had blood work done this last pregnancy. I was vaccinated with MMR. I no longer have immunity to rubella. I couldn’t get vaccinated with MMR even if I wanted to while pregnant or breastfeeding. The vaccine absolutely does not provide lifelong immunity
I had immunity to chickenpox because I have robust durable LIFELONG immunity due to having the illness as a child
Take it easy! I am on your side. I Have not received the Covid vaccine. Neither have my two teenage children. I had Covid this past July, As did my older son. My wife got both pfizer shots in march 2021 against my advice got Covid as a breakthrough infection. We were all sick together at the same time. And my wife was the sickest of all three of us
Measles was and is one of the leading causes of death among children in the world. Prior to the modern medical era, prior to say 1940 measles had a very high case fatality rate especially among young children. It could’ve been as high as 25% or more. Now if somebody gets measles they were very good treatments. However it is still a very dangerous disease. And the vaccine does work , as do many vaccines.
I’m not excusing the behavior of these pharmaceutical companies.
In a more private voluntary society. For instance one which followed more an Anarcho capitalist principles, there would certainly be a wide array of vaccines available that would be extensively vetted and tested and would be extremely effective and safe.
It’s foolish to be against the idea of vaccines per se.
I’m against the merger of medicine in politics. If you mix medicine in politics you get politics!
You’re just making measles stats up.
I had both as a child.
I had measles as a child also. Bedridden for 2 or 3 weeks and then was taken to get vaccinated for it after I was fully recovered. Also got the MMR years later when I moved to a new school that required it.
What was the point of getting vaccinated when you had far superior natural immunity?
drs get perks for vaccinating people. They push. A friend of mine turned down a few vaccinations pre-covid. Dr kept pushing one after the other on same visit. Including "well, you work with money. Coins are metal. You desperately need a tetanus booster". My friend, sadly, went for it.
I'm sorry that happened. I was merely annoyed by each.