Sounds like he might have been on the verge of demonstrating rational judgement or actually following the science and needed some emergency re-education... 😮
That was my first reaction because I have been in a mafia labyrinth and that's how it works. Some people still believe that they're living in a "democracy"!!!
That was my thought too. There's a Sovietesque ring to the story, and it wouldn't be the first time psychiatry had been weaponized against dissent here in the US. See Meryl Nass's experience in Maine, for example.
Makes me think of Dr. Meryl Nass (Please excuse any spelling errors in her name.), having her license suspended and told she needed counseling for mental health reasons.
in most states, it is really hard to have someone hauled off to psych facility. I believe it involves a court order, multiple psych eval's and likely some involvement from the family. very odd. there's more to it not yet if ever available.
Absolutely! in all states in this day and age - this is a stunner - classic "knock on the door" - at 3am?! - this is deep, deep state stuff - there had to be real concern that he was on the verge of divulging stuff - and he may well have gone batsh*t crazy - that aspect of the concern may have been real .... wow - if this doesn't trigger your inner conspiracy theorist, nothing will.
You don't need a court order or family involvement if the police pick up someone considered a "danger to themselves or others". The court orders can come later, at the ER or psych ward. But Medics are not police and do not use force!
thanks for the reality check - however, there is no indication at all that he was physically threatening others or self harm; in that case, involuntary commitment is extremely difficult; this happened early in the month, the suggestion is he is still incarcerated, as such, extremely unusual. The guy knows lots. I'm still at Stage 5 - Conspiracy! Keep an ear out for news of an exit from an upper story of that hospital - a la James Forrestal.
It would be interesting to know what happened in the "15 minutes" prior. This sounds more like the response to a red flag alert. A regular TDO (temporary detaining order) for psych reasons requires an evaluation by a clinician, with police assistance/transport, and an order from a magistrate. More to the story for sure.
well, considering the culpability of many judges, as is shown by the Project Veritas swat incident, I don't imagine the FDA would have any trouble getting one of their mafia judges to sign off...just saying.
it is called, or was called, a 2PC(2 psychiatrists consent).and nowadays we know that after a short hold for evaluation, there are few spots in/ as well as fewer mental hospitals.
My sense remains that involuntary commitment to a psych hospital is currently rare and difficult for authorities to pull off (short of criminal convictions); the initial incident was May 9 - he apparently remains there. He doesn't want to be there - why do others want him there?
I feel ambivalent chuckling about this because what if he’s getting the discrediting treatment they reserve for those who suddenly develop a conscience and are in danger of whistleblowing? One ethical person in a roomful of sociopaths would certainly threaten their racketeering scam. We also know they haven’t hesitated to pull the neuropsych card on doctors of conscience like Meryl Nass.
Anyone sensing a “mysterious suicide” in his future? Complete with broken cameras and sleeping guards. But then maybe I’m crazy in thinking this? Uh oh.
Maybe I'm reading this the wrong way? Everyone seems to be chuckling with schadenfreude at this guy. Doesn't this look more like a whistleblower or dissenter being silenced with forced commitment, something most people would rightly fear?
It's less horrible if it's a collaborator cracking under pressure than a whistleblower being handed Soviet style.
I guess. I think it is unrelated, really. Given the thousands of people involved, it would be very strange if they as a subset of the population didn't show the same various statistically certain abnormalities. A given percentage of the researchers, janitors, secretaries, lorry drivers are into fly fishing, a different percentage is into Civil War memorabilia, some love NWoBHM and a given percentage are teetering on the edge to a psychotic break.
And that's journalism I'm afraid: find two or three connections and spin a yarn out of it. Trouble for the rest of us is of course trying to know when it's not a yarn but something sinister.
I thought exactly the same thing. Many parallels to pop stars losing it and starting to say weird things about being controlled, and then being put away for “rest” or “treatment” and coming back a good little puppet again.
“15 minutes later I saw bright red and blue lights (I may have the colors wrong) outside the house and then EMTs in our house who started to ask me to please come with them,” Siegel wrote in the note, more than a week after his hospitalization. “Thinking I was being asked to go voluntarily I politely declined. They insisted. Finally, they turned me around in the steps of my front hallway on Moorland Lane, handcuffed me, forced me unto a gurney, tied me down, took me in the ambulance to the hospital.”
One neighbor who received the missive via Nextdoor expressed concern about Siegel’s ability to do his job, given that Siegel also wrote that he makes ‘major decisions that impact on public health.'”
That is extremely unusual. Paramedics/EMTs are NOT equipped with handcuffs and do NOT force people onto a gurney. They are always accompanied by police on a mental health call where someone must be taken by force. The police do all of the "forcing" and the medics usually remain behind until the "patient" is secured.
SO, this message is BS. Someone else wrote it for public dissemination.
From another perspective, it can be very easy to get a person detained & if they don't handle it well (say its the middle of the night & they are "self" important), arrested.
Eg, I had a horrible job at the end of my past career. Went for lunchtime walk to de-compress, down empty street that led to the office complex. Woman pulled over in her car, I thought to ask directions. Instead, she asked if she could help me. "Sure, just shoot me now" I said, sarcastically, annoyed at the intrusion on my thinking.
Continued walking, knelt by a stream to listen to the white water, when she came from behind & stuck a piece of cardboard with pic of crucifixion on it up my nose. It poked the very sensitive inner nasal mucosa, starting tears & mucus running.
Next thing I know, she's talking to 2 cops that she had called on me.
I was detained for half an hour while I repeatedly explained I was minding my own business taking a walk during my lunch break when this woman accosted me. That it was a *joke,* no I am not suicidal.
They had to get permission from their supervisor, who was out to lunch, to release me, with a warning to be careful of jokes.
It was very stressful. It became very clear to me very quickly that if I got confrontational or upset in any way, they'd cart me off to god knows where.
All because of a meddling busy body nutcase Jesus freak unable to mind her own motherfucking business.
This happened 20 years ago in the liberal hellhole known as Massachusetts.
I can only imagine how bad it is doen there now. I haven't been quite the same since. Very afraid of police & strangers. Not overtly, but always alert, quietlyf suspicious.
The "problem" I have is with meddling Karens who think they're so superior that they aren't satisfied running their own lives, they need to run yours too.
So they run around, uninvited, forcing themselves on you, making messes that you will be stuck cleaning up or paying for somehow.
I mind my own business & don't break any laws. I offer help when it seems necessary & if someone says no, in any way, either politely or rudely, I leave them alone.
I had never been in trouble with cops before. It was terrifying to be detained & then held against my will. The Karen that called the cops because of my supposed crime didn't stick around to see the results of her uninvited intrusion into my life. She patted herself on the back & continued on her merry way, probably to continue leaving a trail of victims of her "help."
She's no better than the Karens that get in your face for not wearing a dirty rag over your face.
And she had no right to stick a filthy, lint-covered piece of cardboard from the bottom of her purse up my nose. Effing gross, & back into her purse it went! 🤮
Hi Mary - My comment was flippant and for that I apologize.
I don't know anything about you but I do know some things about human nature having learned some hard lessons in life. The combination of self pity, blaming others, inability to forgive, and bitterness are a toxic brew that destroys people's lives. You are doing this to yourself. The most appalling thing is that in twenty years no one in your life has had the courage to tell you this.
We forgive others not just for their benefit but for our own benefit. Walking around bitter and with a chip on one's shoulder is incredibly self destructive.
You probably are not ready to hear it but I hope you'll at least think about it. Best wishes.
@Jeff C, Backhanded ‘compassion’. Breathtaking. Not helpful or supportive to someone clearly traumatized. Timing of incident is irrelevant to unprocessed trauma. Fine if you speak your truth but irresponsible as well as presumptuous to label and apply to another you admittedly know nothing about. Most of the masses are currently, actively being traumatized. Hope you noticed. Tread carefully. Neither will they benefit from your wisdom if delivered in such hasty, judgmental manner. If you truly wish to help, learn better then do better. Be at peace that you can’t help everyone, maybe -maybe- not even a single one, particularly in a format such as this.
~Writing from the outside, same as you, same as Mary, same as just about all here.
You could have stopped right there. You don't know anything about me.
At the time of this incident, I didn't have time to process it, no opportunity to talk about & relieve the stress & fear it caused, so shoved it down the memory hole & moved on.
When the article triggered my recall, the incident surfaced not as a "memory" but as a raw experience with all the raw emotions it triggered at the time it occurred. That is what happens when traumatic events aren't processed. And that is what I wrote with. The raw feelings I experienced in real time, as it happened. The things I *wanted* to say when I was detained without cause by a random stranger who had no knowledge or background to make judgements having the right to have me arrested just because.
I considered removing the post, but didn't. It is the best expression I can think of that the subject of the article experienced in the middle of the night. It was only my ability, due to my history about which you know nothing, to suppress my outrage that kept me from being handcuffed & carted away the way he was.
I woke up this morning & felt relief. That incident had been released from the memory hole it was shoved into. I have already let it go.
"The combination of self pity, blaming others, inability to forgive, and bitterness are a toxic brew that destroys people's lives. You are doing this to yourself"
Wow. Just wow. You admittedly know nothing about me, and now you choose to insult me with your judgemental bs. 🙄
I have nothing further to say on this matter, & after your "apology-non-apology" have no interest in anything further you have to say.
So weird that Nextdoor is becoming the neighborhood app to learn about your local mental health issues. I can think of 4 local situations where either behaviors were described or where the mentally ill person him/herself was posting. Guess it’s going to become more prevalent as the vax related neuro issues take hold.
Sounds like he might have been on the verge of demonstrating rational judgement or actually following the science and needed some emergency re-education... 😮
Or maybe he was experimenting with the meds he approves.
That was my first reaction because I have been in a mafia labyrinth and that's how it works. Some people still believe that they're living in a "democracy"!!!
Pretty sure the 'guests' of room 101 were also involuntarily held.
That was my thought too. There's a Sovietesque ring to the story, and it wouldn't be the first time psychiatry had been weaponized against dissent here in the US. See Meryl Nass's experience in Maine, for example.
My work here is done
Precisely
hmmmm. "Against his will" fishy🐠
Makes me think of Dr. Meryl Nass (Please excuse any spelling errors in her name.), having her license suspended and told she needed counseling for mental health reasons.
I thought being mentally disordered was just part of working for FDA.
in most states, it is really hard to have someone hauled off to psych facility. I believe it involves a court order, multiple psych eval's and likely some involvement from the family. very odd. there's more to it not yet if ever available.
Absolutely! in all states in this day and age - this is a stunner - classic "knock on the door" - at 3am?! - this is deep, deep state stuff - there had to be real concern that he was on the verge of divulging stuff - and he may well have gone batsh*t crazy - that aspect of the concern may have been real .... wow - if this doesn't trigger your inner conspiracy theorist, nothing will.
I'm reading Plague of Corruption by Dr. Judy Mikovits. A shocking read detailing her experiences as a researcher who was revealing too much. The deep state players came down on her in similar ways...she ended up in jail without charges for 5 days, they destroyed her career for not retracting her vaccine-Pharma-government damaging discoveries. As I'm seeing, there have been a lot of similar things going on for a very long time, decades and decades of it. We just didn't realize it. Link to Mikovits' book: https://www.amazon.com/Plague-Corruption-Restoring-Promise-Science/dp/1510752242/ref=sr_1_1?crid=11QWSA3TDFZ5V&keywords=plague+of+corruption+by+dr.+judy+mikovits&qid=1653847532&sprefix=Plague+of+corruption%2Caps%2C999&sr=8-1
You don't need a court order or family involvement if the police pick up someone considered a "danger to themselves or others". The court orders can come later, at the ER or psych ward. But Medics are not police and do not use force!
thanks for the reality check - however, there is no indication at all that he was physically threatening others or self harm; in that case, involuntary commitment is extremely difficult; this happened early in the month, the suggestion is he is still incarcerated, as such, extremely unusual. The guy knows lots. I'm still at Stage 5 - Conspiracy! Keep an ear out for news of an exit from an upper story of that hospital - a la James Forrestal.
I agree that there is no indication whatsoever. I am only stating what is legally required. When the KGB comes, they don't have to follow the laws!
It would be interesting to know what happened in the "15 minutes" prior. This sounds more like the response to a red flag alert. A regular TDO (temporary detaining order) for psych reasons requires an evaluation by a clinician, with police assistance/transport, and an order from a magistrate. More to the story for sure.
Allegedly he posted videos of himself singing some pretty unhinged songs he wrote on TikTok.
well, considering the culpability of many judges, as is shown by the Project Veritas swat incident, I don't imagine the FDA would have any trouble getting one of their mafia judges to sign off...just saying.
No - It’s easy. Two doctors have to sign that you are mentally incompetent and it’s done.
But not in var country, eh Comrade? Ve know how to dose teas tings, eh?
Not anymore, look into it.
it is called, or was called, a 2PC(2 psychiatrists consent).and nowadays we know that after a short hold for evaluation, there are few spots in/ as well as fewer mental hospitals.
My sense remains that involuntary commitment to a psych hospital is currently rare and difficult for authorities to pull off (short of criminal convictions); the initial incident was May 9 - he apparently remains there. He doesn't want to be there - why do others want him there?
@Jim- all they have to say is he was a danger to himself or others. BAM! Instant incarceration in a psych facility.
how can they tell the difference from the rest of them?
I feel ambivalent chuckling about this because what if he’s getting the discrediting treatment they reserve for those who suddenly develop a conscience and are in danger of whistleblowing? One ethical person in a roomful of sociopaths would certainly threaten their racketeering scam. We also know they haven’t hesitated to pull the neuropsych card on doctors of conscience like Meryl Nass.
Anyone sensing a “mysterious suicide” in his future? Complete with broken cameras and sleeping guards. But then maybe I’m crazy in thinking this? Uh oh.
I found an obscure post on his MySpace about the choking game.
what is that?
I'm joking.
"The choking game" was a dumb thing a few years back about an alleged wave of teens doing autoerotic asphyxiation.
Fall guy?
Maybe I'm reading this the wrong way? Everyone seems to be chuckling with schadenfreude at this guy. Doesn't this look more like a whistleblower or dissenter being silenced with forced commitment, something most people would rightly fear?
It's less horrible if it's a collaborator cracking under pressure than a whistleblower being handed Soviet style.
I guess. I think it is unrelated, really. Given the thousands of people involved, it would be very strange if they as a subset of the population didn't show the same various statistically certain abnormalities. A given percentage of the researchers, janitors, secretaries, lorry drivers are into fly fishing, a different percentage is into Civil War memorabilia, some love NWoBHM and a given percentage are teetering on the edge to a psychotic break.
And that's journalism I'm afraid: find two or three connections and spin a yarn out of it. Trouble for the rest of us is of course trying to know when it's not a yarn but something sinister.
I thought exactly the same thing. Many parallels to pop stars losing it and starting to say weird things about being controlled, and then being put away for “rest” or “treatment” and coming back a good little puppet again.
Or like Jack Ma.
He got the full Winston Smith treatment.
I went back and reread it. If so, they didn't do a very good job because he is out and jabbering like a jaybird. But it is a righteous fear.
“15 minutes later I saw bright red and blue lights (I may have the colors wrong) outside the house and then EMTs in our house who started to ask me to please come with them,” Siegel wrote in the note, more than a week after his hospitalization. “Thinking I was being asked to go voluntarily I politely declined. They insisted. Finally, they turned me around in the steps of my front hallway on Moorland Lane, handcuffed me, forced me unto a gurney, tied me down, took me in the ambulance to the hospital.”
One neighbor who received the missive via Nextdoor expressed concern about Siegel’s ability to do his job, given that Siegel also wrote that he makes ‘major decisions that impact on public health.'”
That is extremely unusual. Paramedics/EMTs are NOT equipped with handcuffs and do NOT force people onto a gurney. They are always accompanied by police on a mental health call where someone must be taken by force. The police do all of the "forcing" and the medics usually remain behind until the "patient" is secured.
SO, this message is BS. Someone else wrote it for public dissemination.
Or he wrote it but didn't remember clearly. Probably was drugged to the hilt when they carried him away.
Or those actors were not EMTs
So they handcuffed him and forced him to the hospital and then let him play on his phone? Really?
From another perspective, it can be very easy to get a person detained & if they don't handle it well (say its the middle of the night & they are "self" important), arrested.
Eg, I had a horrible job at the end of my past career. Went for lunchtime walk to de-compress, down empty street that led to the office complex. Woman pulled over in her car, I thought to ask directions. Instead, she asked if she could help me. "Sure, just shoot me now" I said, sarcastically, annoyed at the intrusion on my thinking.
Continued walking, knelt by a stream to listen to the white water, when she came from behind & stuck a piece of cardboard with pic of crucifixion on it up my nose. It poked the very sensitive inner nasal mucosa, starting tears & mucus running.
Next thing I know, she's talking to 2 cops that she had called on me.
I was detained for half an hour while I repeatedly explained I was minding my own business taking a walk during my lunch break when this woman accosted me. That it was a *joke,* no I am not suicidal.
They had to get permission from their supervisor, who was out to lunch, to release me, with a warning to be careful of jokes.
It was very stressful. It became very clear to me very quickly that if I got confrontational or upset in any way, they'd cart me off to god knows where.
All because of a meddling busy body nutcase Jesus freak unable to mind her own motherfucking business.
This happened 20 years ago in the liberal hellhole known as Massachusetts.
I can only imagine how bad it is doen there now. I haven't been quite the same since. Very afraid of police & strangers. Not overtly, but always alert, quietlyf suspicious.
Wow Mary. If this is what you talk about people that made an honest mistake out of concern for you, maybe other people aren't your problem.
The "problem" I have is with meddling Karens who think they're so superior that they aren't satisfied running their own lives, they need to run yours too.
So they run around, uninvited, forcing themselves on you, making messes that you will be stuck cleaning up or paying for somehow.
I mind my own business & don't break any laws. I offer help when it seems necessary & if someone says no, in any way, either politely or rudely, I leave them alone.
I had never been in trouble with cops before. It was terrifying to be detained & then held against my will. The Karen that called the cops because of my supposed crime didn't stick around to see the results of her uninvited intrusion into my life. She patted herself on the back & continued on her merry way, probably to continue leaving a trail of victims of her "help."
She's no better than the Karens that get in your face for not wearing a dirty rag over your face.
And she had no right to stick a filthy, lint-covered piece of cardboard from the bottom of her purse up my nose. Effing gross, & back into her purse it went! 🤮
I don't believe for a second she thought you were suicidal...just wanted to teach you humility. A pox on her and those police.
Hi Mary - My comment was flippant and for that I apologize.
I don't know anything about you but I do know some things about human nature having learned some hard lessons in life. The combination of self pity, blaming others, inability to forgive, and bitterness are a toxic brew that destroys people's lives. You are doing this to yourself. The most appalling thing is that in twenty years no one in your life has had the courage to tell you this.
We forgive others not just for their benefit but for our own benefit. Walking around bitter and with a chip on one's shoulder is incredibly self destructive.
You probably are not ready to hear it but I hope you'll at least think about it. Best wishes.
@Jeff C, Backhanded ‘compassion’. Breathtaking. Not helpful or supportive to someone clearly traumatized. Timing of incident is irrelevant to unprocessed trauma. Fine if you speak your truth but irresponsible as well as presumptuous to label and apply to another you admittedly know nothing about. Most of the masses are currently, actively being traumatized. Hope you noticed. Tread carefully. Neither will they benefit from your wisdom if delivered in such hasty, judgmental manner. If you truly wish to help, learn better then do better. Be at peace that you can’t help everyone, maybe -maybe- not even a single one, particularly in a format such as this.
~Writing from the outside, same as you, same as Mary, same as just about all here.
"I don't know anything about you"
You could have stopped right there. You don't know anything about me.
At the time of this incident, I didn't have time to process it, no opportunity to talk about & relieve the stress & fear it caused, so shoved it down the memory hole & moved on.
When the article triggered my recall, the incident surfaced not as a "memory" but as a raw experience with all the raw emotions it triggered at the time it occurred. That is what happens when traumatic events aren't processed. And that is what I wrote with. The raw feelings I experienced in real time, as it happened. The things I *wanted* to say when I was detained without cause by a random stranger who had no knowledge or background to make judgements having the right to have me arrested just because.
I considered removing the post, but didn't. It is the best expression I can think of that the subject of the article experienced in the middle of the night. It was only my ability, due to my history about which you know nothing, to suppress my outrage that kept me from being handcuffed & carted away the way he was.
I woke up this morning & felt relief. That incident had been released from the memory hole it was shoved into. I have already let it go.
"The combination of self pity, blaming others, inability to forgive, and bitterness are a toxic brew that destroys people's lives. You are doing this to yourself"
Wow. Just wow. You admittedly know nothing about me, and now you choose to insult me with your judgemental bs. 🙄
I have nothing further to say on this matter, & after your "apology-non-apology" have no interest in anything further you have to say.
Have a nice day.
Good point. Article says he wrote & posted it a week later.
Where in the article does it say when he posted to the neighborhood listserv? He probably posted after he was released.
Here we go. Their excuse wrapped up in a neat bow. Now STOP THE INJECTIONS
Sounds a bit like what happened to Dr Mel Bruchet in Canada.
His disorder:
Not listing his pronouns in his email signature block.
Wasn't Winston Smith hospitalized against his will...?
Just until he agreed that 2+2=5...
I wonder who had it worst at this point? We're getting VERY close!!
He had it worse; he didn't have 2A.
Yes..
So weird that Nextdoor is becoming the neighborhood app to learn about your local mental health issues. I can think of 4 local situations where either behaviors were described or where the mentally ill person him/herself was posting. Guess it’s going to become more prevalent as the vax related neuro issues take hold.
Just read one myself last week!
And another one gone, and another one gone, another whistleblower bites the dust...