Citizens are not soldiers and citing mandates using standards of 1700's also classifies slaves as possessions not people. How many political & scientific standards of the 1700's should we embrace?
I've been waiting for this argument Also the "we eradicated smallpox, we can crush covid too "
A couple key differences re:mandates: Smallpox mortality was 30%, therapeutics nonexistant, vax actually worked.
Re: eradication: smallpox is human only, with no animal reservoir to hide in. Also comparatively stable so nutations didn't crop up every 5 minutes Also, vax actually worked.
I would like to see Fauci and Leana Wen and [insert fave doctor douche here] personally mask and vaccinate wild animals, starting with mountain lions. I'll get the popcorn.
"The chute door opens as I crack my whip and shout, 'Let them come,' Out slink the striped cats, snarling and roaring, leaping at each other or at me. It's a matchless thrill, and life without it is not worth while to me."
Lions and Tigers and Bears -- oh my! How about Bison and Wolves and Coyotes and Grizzlies. Can we afford to ignore the angry badgers or even the ants and mosquitos? I need a tighter weave on the chain link dome over my house and yard!
Yee Haw. That'll be a rodeo to watch fer shur! Darling Sneauxflayke, who's bringing the butter for that popcorn?
allegedly which I do not believe for a second. Its so easy to blame the animals. There are many zoonotic dzs and most of us are still standing.....they need to stop blaming the bats.....
From my reading of early anti-vaccine history, the smalllpox "vaccine" killed many patients. I think it was somewhere in the UK where deaths would follow the vaccine through the city. Parents, in order to protect their children, chose prison rather than subject their children to possible death.
The last part is actually questionable. The "vax" was a mutant horsepox by the 20th Century. India aggressively promoted smallpox vaccination for 100 years. It didn't go away.
The success of the WHO eradication campaign was based on track and trace. In fact, it seems plausible animal reservoirs are not the key distinction but the fact that smallpox creates a visible rash before transmission is possible. At best, the vaccines partially helped.
Also the mortality seems like it might have been a Merck's effect from (pre-Jenner) use of variolation (such as used at Valley Forge) which had been going on for 100s of years, but that's going out on way more of a limb.
The cow was left behind after Phipps. From then it was "arm to arm." Which raises the question of how the "vaccine" didn't improve in virulence via 100 years of serial passage. Eventually cultured injections became the norm, but the source of the final vaccine - the one still used as a vector for pseudoviruses in research today - derived from a horsepox, as mentioned. The history is extremely sketchy because the methodology was so wild west.
Jenner and horsepox are not related, regardless of whatever he wrote. Anything he wrote that was "disproven" has nothing to do with horsepox itself. There is the Jenner-derived arm to arm vaccine and the cultured injectable vaccines, which were from all sorts of sources including horses. The final version, still in use today, resembles horsepox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccinia
small pox killed about 30% or so of the population, and young ones too. I'm old enough I got my small pox vax. What's his point? All vaccines do different things. It's political hacks that seem to do the same things.
Nothing pisses me off more than when they use small pox as a comparison. That was an actual vaccine! It actually created immunity! Small pox actually killed and paralyzed young healthy people. There is nothing worthy thereof comparison.
Now, turn that around and compare the government dictatorship going on and removal of human rights (I live in Canada, and it is BAD) to Nazi Germany and you are lambasted for it. Yet, in reality, that is exactly what is going on here.
Regardless or when George Washington was President, he certainly was not a medical authority. Another important issue is that we cannot compare COVID-19 with smallpox. Completely different illnesses, completely different public health impact, completely different vaccines. People continue to use the smallpox history as a precedent to justify the absurdities they are doing with COVID-19. Cannot compare.
Washington had his soldiers infected with the actual smallpox virus, extracted from the skin of people suffering or dead from smallpox. It was a like a chickenpox party, with a twist: the soldiers were infected by slicing open their skin and rubbing infected tissue into their wounds. That's it, that was the "inoculation". Many soldiers died from it, but presumably less than would have died if they had all been infected by inhaling the virus since the fatality rate was lower for this infection vector.
But would they have *all* been infected by breathing in the virus, if not infected intentionally? Of course not. It's impossible to know if, overall, soldiers lives were saved by Washington's gambit, but saving lives wasn't the point. Far more important to Washington was controlling the time of infection. He was able to make his soldiers deathly ill in relatively safe conditions, and the survivors would go on to fight battles without fear of a sudden outbreak.
Washington's action was cold blooded in the extreme, and its consequences were borne by young men who might rather have been safe at home instead of forcibly infected with smallpox. There was nothing "public health" about it, it was an maneuver of war. It's absurd to see today's public health acolytes draping themselves in Washington's glory while demanding mass injections of an mRNA cocktail that has a more risk than reward for healthy people and doesn't bestow immunity on anyone. It's as strategic as shooting yourself in the foot.
Oddly, the soldiers were doing it (variolation) themselves in spite orders to desist in the early days. First there was great opportunity for terrible bacterial infection that also could kill, then the soldier was mildly ill for a period. Only when they finally were in winter camp did the practice become OK. In camp they had more opportunity to be cleaner by bathing every so often. But winter bathing was quite difficult.
Yahoo News is carrying this article, "Surgeon General Just Shut Down Anti-Vaxxer Excuses." The article claims. "President George Washington required soldiers to be inoculated against 'A SMALL BOX' (sic) in the 1800s."
Way to go, Yahoo - not only was George not President then, he wasn't even ALIVE! George died in 1799 - last time I looked, that was BEFORE the 1800's. And "a small box" is a bit different from Small Pox. But you don't have to be smart or educated to get in print when you write in support of these communists.
Heh— I love the leap to smallpox in conversations about Covid. It’s like comparing apples and ducks. To my knowledge, never in the time of smallpox were people out and out denied livelihood for not being vaccinated. (Oft quoted Jacobson vs Mass SCOTUS case ultimately was about a $5 fine. Decision was a horrible one nonetheless and set the stage for Buck vs Bell, legalizing sterilization of women)
Washington labored over this decision and it’s was not cut and dry. And it was a military decision strictly for strategy of battling the British. Not a general public decision. People weren’t losing jobs or a way of life as punishment.
Smallpox killed maybe 30% in cases. In 1770’s, “vaccination” was essentially an incision and infection. This method still had a fatality rate upwards of 10%! And soldiers were sick for a month after exposure to the inoculation. And those with previous exposure to smallpox were not subjected to the procedure and not mandated.
Vax mandates have certainly made life worse for all of us: as I write I am in line for ferry in Edmond Washington. They are down 250 employees that they are firing for not getting vaxxed.
Ferry is running 50% of normal boats. I'll be waiting 2.5 hours to get on boat.
These vax mandates are an excellent way to destroy life as we know it.
I mean by this logic we also shouldn't have income tax, property tax, women shouldn't be allowed to vote...because those things were the norm per government in 1777 also so.....
In today's class at gatito bueno's kittengarten for gifted felines, we present a classical example of the Peter Principle...US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy.
The USSG’s tweet doesn’t check. It wasn’t until 1796 that it was discovered that a mild Cow pox would provide immunity for small pox per Wikipedia. So they’re just making stuff up?
Well, if George Washington did it then the argument is settled. I think Thomas Jefferson used to spout off something about watering a tree of liberty too. Just an observation.
So tired of so many Washington whizzes who don't know history, don't research the main issues, and then dig out some silly historical 'precedents' to hopefully give themselves a veneer of wisdom.
Am waiting for some vaccine 'evader' to be put on trial, and to see talking heads citing the Dred Scott decision.
I think they did something called variolation, where they basically scraped a lesser virus on you and hoped it provided adequate immunity to the more virulent smallpox.
Oh come on. Smallpox is a totally different disease. It occurs only in people hence lacking animal reservoirs we can eradicate it. Coronaviruses cannot be eliminated!
Previous vaccine requirements were for sterilizing vaccines. C19 are not and there is therefore no comparison to be made. There is no community benefit from C19 vaccination.
Fools like this have no respect for the proletariat. They think we are all imbeciles. The irony is that those who will walk on hot coals for them, will throw them under the bus and back it over them a couple times. Of course , I am referring to those who are not fully propagandized & are able to snap out of their zombie like state.
No, he didn't. At least, not from any source I could find.
Conversely, I can find MANY sources that, even with limited understanding of the immune system, germ theory, etc., virtually all European societies understood that if you were fortunate enough to survive "the pox" (whatever it meant that century), you had immunity.
So it seems unlikely that GW would have wasted a limited resource, let alone mandate a redundant treatment.
I remember reading once that Maria Theresa of Austria, a contemporary of George Washington and mother of Marie Antoinette, required household staff looking after her large brood of children to have previously been infected with small pox as she knew such a person would not be able to infect her children. I believe Maria Theresa also staged free plays at Schönbrunn Palace for those who came out for their pox inoculation (but it’s free!). A tale as old as time.
Prior to this discussion I had done a course on the Black Plague, which predated the smallpox outbreak in the colonies by about 400 years, and even in the near total absence of modern science at that time, there was an understanding of exposure survival and immunity. For something so lethal, it was simple pattern recognition.
Which is one of the many skills we have somehow lost. I sometimes wonder if we've prematurely entered the dystopia of the 40k universe, where priests recite meaningless chants and moral policing to make medicine and technology work without understanding a single word of it.
And yes, Dr. Murthy, vaccines are one thing, GENE THERAPY WITH ADULTERATED MATERIALS IN THEM is a whole lotta something else. Until you know the difference Surgeon General and call these things what they really are, it is best to shut your mouth.
I concur wholeheartedly but you must remember, you are judging Washington by the health care standard of today. That may have been a valid tx at that time.
George Washington wasn't President in 1777.
George was a domestic terrorist.
LOL!
Citizens are not soldiers and citing mandates using standards of 1700's also classifies slaves as possessions not people. How many political & scientific standards of the 1700's should we embrace?
Or standards of other countries, although that’s looking more and more appealing.
🤦♀️ cause smallpox vaccine is so similar to mRNA. Sure. Uha. Duh. Yeah. I need a wine bottle subscription with this daily nonsense.
{ I need a wine bottle subscription with this daily nonsense. } I pity your liver... ;-)
I've been waiting for this argument Also the "we eradicated smallpox, we can crush covid too "
A couple key differences re:mandates: Smallpox mortality was 30%, therapeutics nonexistant, vax actually worked.
Re: eradication: smallpox is human only, with no animal reservoir to hide in. Also comparatively stable so nutations didn't crop up every 5 minutes Also, vax actually worked.
Smallpox, did it have a non-human reservoir?
I don’t think it did.
Covid19 allegedly does. That fact alone makes it literally impossible to eliminate.
No problem, we'll just vaccinate all the animals!
I would like to see Fauci and Leana Wen and [insert fave doctor douche here] personally mask and vaccinate wild animals, starting with mountain lions. I'll get the popcorn.
"The chute door opens as I crack my whip and shout, 'Let them come,' Out slink the striped cats, snarling and roaring, leaping at each other or at me. It's a matchless thrill, and life without it is not worth while to me."
Lions and Tigers and Bears -- oh my! How about Bison and Wolves and Coyotes and Grizzlies. Can we afford to ignore the angry badgers or even the ants and mosquitos? I need a tighter weave on the chain link dome over my house and yard!
Yee Haw. That'll be a rodeo to watch fer shur! Darling Sneauxflayke, who's bringing the butter for that popcorn?
I have some good farm fresh butter!
Uh oh! Please don’t suggest that again :)
they already are with an experimental Zoetis vax.....I pray nothing happens to our animal kingdom.
allegedly which I do not believe for a second. Its so easy to blame the animals. There are many zoonotic dzs and most of us are still standing.....they need to stop blaming the bats.....
From my reading of early anti-vaccine history, the smalllpox "vaccine" killed many patients. I think it was somewhere in the UK where deaths would follow the vaccine through the city. Parents, in order to protect their children, chose prison rather than subject their children to possible death.
I haven't seen anything about that. Variolation, which was used prior to cowpox vaccination, did have something like a 2% mortality.
The last part is actually questionable. The "vax" was a mutant horsepox by the 20th Century. India aggressively promoted smallpox vaccination for 100 years. It didn't go away.
The success of the WHO eradication campaign was based on track and trace. In fact, it seems plausible animal reservoirs are not the key distinction but the fact that smallpox creates a visible rash before transmission is possible. At best, the vaccines partially helped.
Also the mortality seems like it might have been a Merck's effect from (pre-Jenner) use of variolation (such as used at Valley Forge) which had been going on for 100s of years, but that's going out on way more of a limb.
The original vax was Cowpox -- a similar disease that was much milder in humans and left dairy farmers and milkmaids with immunity to smallpox.
The cow was left behind after Phipps. From then it was "arm to arm." Which raises the question of how the "vaccine" didn't improve in virulence via 100 years of serial passage. Eventually cultured injections became the norm, but the source of the final vaccine - the one still used as a vector for pseudoviruses in research today - derived from a horsepox, as mentioned. The history is extremely sketchy because the methodology was so wild west.
There is no horsepox. Jenner suggested it came from horses. That was later disproven.
Jenner and horsepox are not related, regardless of whatever he wrote. Anything he wrote that was "disproven" has nothing to do with horsepox itself. There is the Jenner-derived arm to arm vaccine and the cultured injectable vaccines, which were from all sorts of sources including horses. The final version, still in use today, resembles horsepox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccinia
Had to google that. Apparently horsepox existed only in Europe & has been extinct since 1917.
Btw, Jenner hypothesized that cowpox originated in horses. That was later disproven. There is no "horsepox", lol.
*Marek's
They say that one all the time, constantly, on Twitter
small pox killed about 30% or so of the population, and young ones too. I'm old enough I got my small pox vax. What's his point? All vaccines do different things. It's political hacks that seem to do the same things.
Washington was elected in 1789.
😅
Nothing pisses me off more than when they use small pox as a comparison. That was an actual vaccine! It actually created immunity! Small pox actually killed and paralyzed young healthy people. There is nothing worthy thereof comparison.
Now, turn that around and compare the government dictatorship going on and removal of human rights (I live in Canada, and it is BAD) to Nazi Germany and you are lambasted for it. Yet, in reality, that is exactly what is going on here.
Regardless or when George Washington was President, he certainly was not a medical authority. Another important issue is that we cannot compare COVID-19 with smallpox. Completely different illnesses, completely different public health impact, completely different vaccines. People continue to use the smallpox history as a precedent to justify the absurdities they are doing with COVID-19. Cannot compare.
I’m surprised these wokies would dare cite our slave owning forefathers, outrageous
Anything that's convenient.
Intellectual inconsistency is not required of the left: objective reality "literally" doesn't exist, remember?
“What is truth?”
"I am innocent of the blood of this just person; see ye to it."
Ha! Great point!
Washington had his soldiers infected with the actual smallpox virus, extracted from the skin of people suffering or dead from smallpox. It was a like a chickenpox party, with a twist: the soldiers were infected by slicing open their skin and rubbing infected tissue into their wounds. That's it, that was the "inoculation". Many soldiers died from it, but presumably less than would have died if they had all been infected by inhaling the virus since the fatality rate was lower for this infection vector.
But would they have *all* been infected by breathing in the virus, if not infected intentionally? Of course not. It's impossible to know if, overall, soldiers lives were saved by Washington's gambit, but saving lives wasn't the point. Far more important to Washington was controlling the time of infection. He was able to make his soldiers deathly ill in relatively safe conditions, and the survivors would go on to fight battles without fear of a sudden outbreak.
Washington's action was cold blooded in the extreme, and its consequences were borne by young men who might rather have been safe at home instead of forcibly infected with smallpox. There was nothing "public health" about it, it was an maneuver of war. It's absurd to see today's public health acolytes draping themselves in Washington's glory while demanding mass injections of an mRNA cocktail that has a more risk than reward for healthy people and doesn't bestow immunity on anyone. It's as strategic as shooting yourself in the foot.
Oddly, the soldiers were doing it (variolation) themselves in spite orders to desist in the early days. First there was great opportunity for terrible bacterial infection that also could kill, then the soldier was mildly ill for a period. Only when they finally were in winter camp did the practice become OK. In camp they had more opportunity to be cleaner by bathing every so often. But winter bathing was quite difficult.
Yahoo News is carrying this article, "Surgeon General Just Shut Down Anti-Vaxxer Excuses." The article claims. "President George Washington required soldiers to be inoculated against 'A SMALL BOX' (sic) in the 1800s."
Way to go, Yahoo - not only was George not President then, he wasn't even ALIVE! George died in 1799 - last time I looked, that was BEFORE the 1800's. And "a small box" is a bit different from Small Pox. But you don't have to be smart or educated to get in print when you write in support of these communists.
Heh— I love the leap to smallpox in conversations about Covid. It’s like comparing apples and ducks. To my knowledge, never in the time of smallpox were people out and out denied livelihood for not being vaccinated. (Oft quoted Jacobson vs Mass SCOTUS case ultimately was about a $5 fine. Decision was a horrible one nonetheless and set the stage for Buck vs Bell, legalizing sterilization of women)
Washington labored over this decision and it’s was not cut and dry. And it was a military decision strictly for strategy of battling the British. Not a general public decision. People weren’t losing jobs or a way of life as punishment.
Smallpox killed maybe 30% in cases. In 1770’s, “vaccination” was essentially an incision and infection. This method still had a fatality rate upwards of 10%! And soldiers were sick for a month after exposure to the inoculation. And those with previous exposure to smallpox were not subjected to the procedure and not mandated.
So yeah, apples and ducks.
Vax mandates have certainly made life worse for all of us: as I write I am in line for ferry in Edmond Washington. They are down 250 employees that they are firing for not getting vaxxed.
Ferry is running 50% of normal boats. I'll be waiting 2.5 hours to get on boat.
These vax mandates are an excellent way to destroy life as we know it.
The idiots like Inslee have no idea how much life is going to be impacted by this stupid mandate.
I thought that about Di Blasio too, but I've come to conclude that they don't care. Destruction is the point.
I mean by this logic we also shouldn't have income tax, property tax, women shouldn't be allowed to vote...because those things were the norm per government in 1777 also so.....
In today's class at gatito bueno's kittengarten for gifted felines, we present a classical example of the Peter Principle...US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy.
The USSG’s tweet doesn’t check. It wasn’t until 1796 that it was discovered that a mild Cow pox would provide immunity for small pox per Wikipedia. So they’re just making stuff up?
it's possible they used variolation.
before vaccines, people used to literally stick a needle in a smallpox sore then jab themselves.
this small dose had something like a 1% fatality rate, but it was WAY better than getting full blown smallpox.
Well, if George Washington did it then the argument is settled. I think Thomas Jefferson used to spout off something about watering a tree of liberty too. Just an observation.
an astute observation none-the-less
So tired of so many Washington whizzes who don't know history, don't research the main issues, and then dig out some silly historical 'precedents' to hopefully give themselves a veneer of wisdom.
Am waiting for some vaccine 'evader' to be put on trial, and to see talking heads citing the Dred Scott decision.
Washington was elected in 1789 and the smallpox vaccine was introduced in 1796, but otherwise I'm sure this is completely factual
I think they did something called variolation, where they basically scraped a lesser virus on you and hoped it provided adequate immunity to the more virulent smallpox.
Also, Covid is NOT equivalent to small pox in any shape or form
It wasn't a biological. The hijacking of words and redefining them is a common tactic of Dems.
This surgeon general is obviously a D student. Key word: "innoculation". This vaccine does nothing of the sort.
Oh come on. Smallpox is a totally different disease. It occurs only in people hence lacking animal reservoirs we can eradicate it. Coronaviruses cannot be eliminated!
Previous vaccine requirements were for sterilizing vaccines. C19 are not and there is therefore no comparison to be made. There is no community benefit from C19 vaccination.
Fools like this have no respect for the proletariat. They think we are all imbeciles. The irony is that those who will walk on hot coals for them, will throw them under the bus and back it over them a couple times. Of course , I am referring to those who are not fully propagandized & are able to snap out of their zombie like state.
Let’s go Brandon!
Did he force it on soldiers who had survived smallpox infection?
No, he didn't. At least, not from any source I could find.
Conversely, I can find MANY sources that, even with limited understanding of the immune system, germ theory, etc., virtually all European societies understood that if you were fortunate enough to survive "the pox" (whatever it meant that century), you had immunity.
So it seems unlikely that GW would have wasted a limited resource, let alone mandate a redundant treatment.
I remember reading once that Maria Theresa of Austria, a contemporary of George Washington and mother of Marie Antoinette, required household staff looking after her large brood of children to have previously been infected with small pox as she knew such a person would not be able to infect her children. I believe Maria Theresa also staged free plays at Schönbrunn Palace for those who came out for their pox inoculation (but it’s free!). A tale as old as time.
Prior to this discussion I had done a course on the Black Plague, which predated the smallpox outbreak in the colonies by about 400 years, and even in the near total absence of modern science at that time, there was an understanding of exposure survival and immunity. For something so lethal, it was simple pattern recognition.
Which is one of the many skills we have somehow lost. I sometimes wonder if we've prematurely entered the dystopia of the 40k universe, where priests recite meaningless chants and moral policing to make medicine and technology work without understanding a single word of it.
Right on.
LOL thank-you for the laugh!
And yes, Dr. Murthy, vaccines are one thing, GENE THERAPY WITH ADULTERATED MATERIALS IN THEM is a whole lotta something else. Until you know the difference Surgeon General and call these things what they really are, it is best to shut your mouth.
If we extrapolate this to its logically conclusion then everyone must be vaccinated with every vaccine going if enough of the mob say so. Madness.
and the 250+ that are in the development pipeline. Who needs clinical trials anyway?
Except Edward Jenner didn't develop the vaccine until 1796
Jeff Childers, an anti-lockdowns lawyer in Florida who does a daily Covid newsletter you can find here on Substack, made a good argument against the Washington-smallpox analogy in court last month. Link: https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/-coffee-and-covid-tuesday-september-c3b
Excellent! Thank you for the link. I've now subscribed.
when i was in i took all kinds of stuff bc we had vietnam a place filled with bat poop!
proly thinks slavery and distilling corn squeezing using slaves is a great idea.
geo washington's stands on small gumint, no standing army and against foreign entanglement are worth doing thses days.....
Not really vaccination in the current sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variolation
Did it work?
LOL! "80 oz of heart juice"
Julius Ruechel has an excellent paper on Washington's variolation of the army and what lessons it may have for today (https://juliusruechel.substack.com/p/washingtons-inoculation-gamble).
Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna COVID-19 vaccine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-pauses-use-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-young-men-2021-10-07/
Unfortunately, they're still pushing Pfizer. All the same to me.
I concur wholeheartedly but you must remember, you are judging Washington by the health care standard of today. That may have been a valid tx at that time.
Wow, so much to learn from history!
Not to mention the fact that Smallpox kills many more of it's victims, including, and especially, the young, oh, and... it's an actual vaccine.
apples-oranges, risk-benefit...
Friend, Edward Jenner, in England, didn't go after smallpox inoculation until 1796! Everybody born here knows this. loooool
Neither cite nor trust.
It's especially fun when the definition of a vaccine has already changed TWICE since 2020.
Candy bars are infrastructure. Beer is a vaccine.
Let's go Brandon.
Guttermouth - "Candy bars are infrastructure. Beer is a vaccine." ???
Man, I'm in. Where and how do I sign up? Let's go Brandon, indeed!
me too, ready for a chugfest!
It’s completely ridiculous, isn’t it?
I point out that mechanistically they’re unlike anything that’s gone before.
Idiots baaaa & repeat “but these are VACCINES”.
And smallpox has a 30% fatality
They should follow the Pied Piper over the edge....
A family member texted me in great excitement: "The Pfizer vaccine got fully approved! Are you going to get it now???"
Me: "They completely emptied the phrase 'FDA Approval' of any meaning in order to do so"
Family member: [...crickets...]
Yup because Lena, Fredo and Donnie Lemon would never lie to them
I don't understand how anybody can stand to listen to Leana Whiner. My god, that voice!
in droves
Too many are! It's the Triumph Of Words Over Reality.