330 Comments

i have a better plan:

the population of sick bureaucrats has grown so much that the U.S. population wants to implement a “free-ranging bureaucrat management plan” and is considering options that could include removing the monsters.

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Yeah a spay and neuter program would be appropriate.

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author

it's already in place through save a gato

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Spay and Neuter the Feds!

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Suddenly I am more interested. In this a separate program with a separate donation address?

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I think he meant neuter the bureaucrats.

Here's a thought on the neuter and release program. Seems to me it logically leads to the same place. Sterilize the cats so they die off in a generation. Same end point. Might take a little longer. Might not. Trapping cats is a lot harder than people think ;-).

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Trapping cats is easy (they’re hungry).

Small tin of sardines + cage

.

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Luring cats is easy.

Controlling cats, not so much. I can show you some scars...but we digress ;-).

The topic was how to trap and neuter bureaucrats. Discuss.

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‘That Cuddly Kitty Is Deadlier Than You Think’

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/science/that-cuddly-kitty-of-yours-is-a-killer.html

I’ve probably got 10 more science-based articles along the same lines.

Bottom line?

Cats make wonderful pets, but kill indigenous species all over the world.

And they don’t always kill for food, but kill out of instinct.

No country has ever been able to spay or neuter itself out of feral cat over-population problems (FACT!), which leads to only 2 solutions which are effective, but neither of which sound pretty:

eradication or starvation

.

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Yeah... so what 'indigenous species', besides mice and rats, are the Old San Juan Cats killing ?

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That is absolutely untrue. Spay/neuter programs work very well. We do that in our community and it works very well. All of the veterinarians in the area participate.

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Why so mysterious?

Where exactly is your community?

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Nov 6, 2022·edited Nov 6, 2022

anecdotal evidence is not science and it’s not evidence.

there is not one science study that backs up your local environment ‘experience’.

I live in a country where cats have been a protected species for 20 years, the only acceptable control program is neutering. I can report that the country is a mess and the department of agriculture’s Minister of Agriculture is screaming about the indigenous wildlife being wiped out.

The cats have nothing better to do than hunt anything that moves. They wait for their handouts every day like third generation welfare recipients.

15 birds have already been killed on my (by American standards) small garden in just two years. You should see the last photo I took: a headless pigeon only a foot from my front gate.

Of course it was not eaten, only mauled to death. By a cat.

Appalling. 😔

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agriculture wipes out billions of wildlife every year squirrels rabbits gophers worms and insects. plus the spraying harms fish and birds.

the most vegan thing to eat would be a cow at this point

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I sent a link with scientific proof that TNR works if implemented properly. You sound like a nice person (concern for the pigeon). Why dont you research proper TNR protocol and bring it up to your city council, veterinarians in your area, and local SPCA. Also, spend a little time really observing cats. They really are amazing creatures, and deserve a place in our ecosystem.

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I would be somewhat more readily persuaded if the NPS had provided some data to support that there is overpopulation. They provide only vague hand waving assertions of a problem. Without a clear understanding of a problem, effective solutions are not possible. I see nothing in the NPS provided rational that survives even superficial scrutiny.

I am further bothered by the lack of fiscal analysis. This program is going to cost money. Track record of NPS suggests millions of USD. Again, no data to support a value evaluation.

It sure looks like another arbitrary administrative edict. Perhaps it is a reasonable, well thought out proposition. Can't tell from what they've made public. IMO it is time for a "hard no" without valid, supported, verifiable data to support the intended course of action and expected outcomes.

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You're still reading that captured newspaper?

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My comment doesn't refer to any newspaper...

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Apologies - comment was meant for R. E. ... the reader of NYT's opinions.

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It's official: Cats are killers

https://www.science.org/content/article/it-s-official-cats-are-killers

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This reminds me of the retarded "exercise makes vaccines more effective" propaganda being slung everywhere. It's not cats killing indigenous species. It's people. The fact is that folks are unreflective enough to believe this shit.

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Too bad you can’t back up anything you say except with your own opinion.

You’re clearly a cat fanatic.

You’re the problem, not the solution.

.

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Oh, well, if SCIENCE says so, it is beyond dispute, settled.

Call me a cat-denier then...;-)

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They are already on that project themselves.

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Cat lovers love spay & neuter programs because they seem so kind, so nice.

The problem is no spay or neuter program has ever worked in any country where it has been tried.

FACT.

.

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Your statement seems misinformed. Uh oh ! Are you a'misinformation spreader' ?!?!?! Do we have to turn you in to the authorities ?

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Good luck 'turning me in'. The 12 plus free roaming cats I feed will attack any intruders showing ill will !

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TNR Effectiveness Case Studies | Best Friends Animal Society

https://resources.bestfriends.org/article/trap-neuter-vaccinate-return-tnvr-success-stories

I found this on Freespoke, a new search engine that doesn't censor viewpoints and respects privacy. Check it out: Freespoke.com

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1) https://www.nupoliticalreview.com/2020/09/06/israels-cat-astrophe-and-its-impact-on-wildlife/

2) https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-01-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/this-israeli-conflict-involves-thousands-of-persian-burmese-and-siamese-characters/0000017f-e2a6-d38f-a57f-e6f687e90000?utm_source=App_Share&utm_medium=iOS_Native

3) One million and counting: Israel's street cat population keeps growing

Agriculture Ministry says that while 75-90% of all feral felines do not live past first year, increasing number of cats across country is threat to public health, local wildlife:

https://www.ynetnews.com/environment/article/B1TLg0gcd

4) https://mideastenvironment.apps01.yorku.ca/2010/05/street-cats-are-paying-the-price-of-saving-the-birds-haaretz/

….An opinion piece posted recently on a Jewish National Fund Web site by Prof. Yoram Yom-Tov and Dr. Eli Gefen of Tel Aviv University was removed soon afterward by the site’s operators, apparently under pressure from animal rights activists. The article questioned the efficacy of sterilization programs in reducing Israel’s growing population of street cats.

Yom-Tov and Gefen argued that foreign studies have not proved the effectiveness of spaying and neutering in reducing the numbers of feral cats. They suggested imposing restrictions on feeding street cats and even to consider culling them. “As long as the feral cat populations continue to rise there is no choice but to introduce regulations….Yom-Tov and Gefen wrote. “In ancient Egypt the cat was a sacred animal. In Israel there is no justification for this.

…Wildlife conservation researchers who doubt the efficacy of sterilization fear that growing numbers of feral cats will continue to kill wild animals, wreaking significant damage to the ecosystem.

The issue was addressed in a recent issue of Conservation Biology, published in the United States and considered a journal of record in the field. In an article, a group of researchers argued that street cats, including those that are fed regularly, are systematically exterminating wild animal populations including reptiles, small mammals and many species of birds. The authors also claimed that the catch, neuter and return method, in which feral cats are trapped, sterilized and returned to their territories, has not proved effective at reducing their numbers.

. ….The Chief Animal Welfare Officer in the Ministry of Agriculture, Dr. Deganit Ben-Dov, is also pessimistic about the ability of the sterilization programs now being funded by the ministry to significantly reduce Israel’s feral cat colonies. “I’ve seen hundreds of articles and have found no proof that this is an effective means of regulating the cat population,” said Ben-Dov, a veterinarian whose job includes enforcing the state Animal Welfare Law.

Sterilization can help in urban areas, Ben-Dov explained, but those who feed the street cats must be made to accept some responsibility. She favors issuing permits to regular feeders that stipulate when and where they can put out food for street cats.

5) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/02/israel-howling-over-proposal-to-deport-street-cats/

6) https://www.jpost.com/Enviro-Tech/Israel-plans-mass-spaying-campaign-to-combat-street-cat-proliferation-329973

“As a result of a multitude of feeders and food offerings in the streets, stray cats have multiplied significantly,” said Dr. Dganit Ben-Dov, chief animal welfare officer at the ministry’s Veterinary Services. “On one hand, this is a severe problem of animal welfare, since street life results in cats suffering. On the other hand, in many cases, the cats become an environmental hazard, posing risk to food establishments, various institutions and hospitals.” Unlike puppies of abandoned dogs, baby kittens tend to be born on the streets, so they become the fiscal responsibility of the local authorities from day one.”

…. Research conducted in Western countries has indicated that about 80 to 90% of domestic cats are sterilized, as opposed to only 2% of their stray counterparts.

7) https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-faces-dilemma-in-dealing-with-hordes-of-stray-cats/amp/

Jerusalem faces dilemma in dealing with hordes of stray cats

…..“Ultimately, underground rubbish bins that reduce the availability of food for cats are the only solution to control the size of the population,” Amir Balaban, of the Society for the Protection of Nature in Israel, said.

8) Jerusalem's dilemma over hordes of stray cats:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hZwnlyYBy0

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Well done, RE. Now you are actually supporting your claims.

There is evidence on both sides of the issue of TNR, so lets try the least cruel solution.

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Patronizing now are we?

Yours is weak science, anecdotal evidence, a few hundred cats here and there, and fewer of them being impounded into animal shelters is not a peer-reviewed animal science study. Laughable.

YOU are the problem, not the cats. The cats only do what comes by instinct, it’s humans like you that champion one species at the expense of the others. YOU are not evolution, and you are not God, it shouldn’t be your prerogative to decide which species will be taken care of, and which species will be sacrificed.

But you seem to think you have that privilege.

You champion cats because they make nice pets. Truthfully, nothing else matters to you. You can’t get beyond this.

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You need to be fact checked, because you are flat out wrong.

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Maybe not for the cats....what about politicians?

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I think you’re on to something

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You are spot on, and here’s how they reacted to;

Trump Administration Announces Plans To Move Hundreds Of Federal Jobs Out Of D.C.

July 19, 20194:09 PM ET

Heard on All Things Considered

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/19/743599320/trump-administration-announces-plans-to-move-hundreds-of-federal-jobs-out-of-d-c

See, these cats weren’t convinced! Living among those they lorded over from DC was unthinkable!

“NAYLOR: But the USDA employees who will be relocated are apparently not convinced. Fully two-thirds have told the agency they intend to retire from their government jobs rather than move.”

Another reason they hated Trump and still fear his return!

Jul 23, 2022 - Politics & Policy

Inside Trump '25

Trump's revenge

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/23/donald-trump-news-schedule-f-executive-order

Updated Jul 23, 2022 - Politics & Policy

How Trump could reimpose "Schedule F" in 2025

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/22/trump-presidency-schedule-f-federal-employees

Jul 22, 2022 - Politics & Policy

Inside Trump '25

A radical plan for Trump’s second term

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/22/trump-2025-radical-plan-second-term

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Anything that reduces the number of bureaucrats is a fabulous idea. Move all of the federal agencies out of DC. Have Congress do remote governing from their home districts. Turn DC into a giant homeless facility.

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You have my vote!:-)

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Make sure to spay or neuter them first.

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Great Plan!!!

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Just. Say. Go.

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founding

Just did.

This is ridiculous. Before my family were cat fans we loved them when we visited San Juan.

This is as stupid as closing down the National Parks during Covid. The NPS is like a lobotomized trail horse.

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Why would you close a National Park for Covid?

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they couldnt get enough masks for all the squirrels and you know how bad they are at social distancing

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Sounds squirrely to me.

I guess it also meant spending tax-dollars on patrolling the parks/drone surveillance?

You know, instead of the "mostly peacfeful protests" that were going on in 2020.

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They will close on a rumor. And the state parks, at least here in California, are even worse. I have come to the conclusion that they simply do not want visitors, period.

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Here, some parks share areas with military exercise areas.

One is an exercise area for artillery, tanks and the engineering corps practicing the use of "tactical area denial devices" (mines, but we're not supposed to use that word.../rolls eyes at soft language/).

Despite that you have to pass more than a dozen signs stating whether an exercise is taking place or not, they still have to send in MPs to arrest and escort idiots out of the target areas every bloody year.

I guess that's not the case in California?

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Nov 5, 2022·edited Nov 5, 2022

The military is banned from the state of California, by order of the governor. Seems like.

Back home in Hawai'i when I visited my Dad on the Big Island, we would drive to a place called Pohakuloa, a wide plateau between the two massive volcanos Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa. The military conducted war games there for years (I don't know whether these are still going on but I very much doubt it). We'd sit in his car on a hill above the plain and watch. As a teenage girl I wasn't enthralled, but as a man who had lived his best life in the Pacific Theater, Dad loved it. The whole idea of this taking place next to a park is almost surreal. Could there not be unexploded ordnance making its way to the park area? Birdwatchers wandering into No Man's Land? Sheesh.

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founding

Where are you Keahi?

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Jan 7, 2023·edited Jan 7, 2023

Physically? Mendocino County, California. We're getting a lot of rain - oh, I mean virtual rain. We can't be having rain, we're in a perpetual drought. So it's all fake. I must say, they're very good at it. Mentally? Back from a long strange trip. How are things in Florida?

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im pretty sure they signed something banning the use of mines, so they found another word for them

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We were at Wind Cave in SD and the park service guy who led the tour of the cave said that their job was to protect the parks, not to have visitors. It was shocking to hear what we suspected said out loud.

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I've seen ample evidence of the truth of this, but it does seem pretty egregious for him to have actually said this to his "guests". Disgusting, really. Who were the parks created for?

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Why would you close anything for COVID? Because you can?

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Lots of parks were closed.

I was climbing over barriers in New York State (seemed all were closed) for close to two years.

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Bc we all know what veritable vectors of disease the open air & forests are! 🙄🙄🙄

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I guess you will not be voting for the incumbent yet unelected "governor" Hochul.

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I was just reading her new quarantine regulations—frightening

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Right with ya.

"Oh, it's closed? I had no idea!"

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i wonder how many others you met in closed parks, or were you all hiding from each other :)

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"What happens in the closed park, stays in the closed park"?

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Very rarely met anyone past the barriers. Some Hasidim who want the air but no one else

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Because they’re evil “human beings”. They are my enemy.

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I’ve been to Glacier 3x since April of 2021. The latest was SEPT 2022!! In order to go in any building or talk w/a ranger in Glacier we HAD to put on a mask! It’s outright ridiculous & moronic the way National Parks thinks. 🙄🙄🙄

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I still can't figure out what is worse: the brazen brashness of the bureaucrats or the toxic passivity of the public.

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It's amazing how hard people will work to stay blind deaf and stupid.

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I call them; the walking "rested".

Monty Python reference fyi

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The “toxic passivity” of the public. Any anxiety or angst I have comes from the average sheeple called people.

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Well, the former couldn't exist (for long) without the latter, so...

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TPP, my vote for worse. People are always gonna be brash, but they might learn to curb those impulses a bit, or channel them in healthier directions (sports, anyone?) if met with some limits, via active refusal from the public.

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It’s just like my former job. Any anxiety was from my co-worker, not the “customer”.

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They clearly hate people, and now we find they hate cats. What's next - they hate wildlife??

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You should see what they're doing to deer in The Hamptons. (horrible)

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I'll bite - I've already had supper - what are they doing to the deers and the swans?

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and the swans.

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They're just hateful people. Not all, of course, but the upper echelon who make the decisions are petty tyrants. John Muir must spin in his grave.

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Like most federal agencies these days, they like to flex their power from time to time just to show us who is in charge. This looks like the case here, and the more people complain, the more militant they get. I wrote them just now and said pretty much the same....probably have the FBI at my door tonight.

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Oh don't worry; we're on the naughty list.

100% the Intel agencies are lurking on Substack.

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What have you got against horses?

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founding

Nothing. But that's how people acted during covid.

Prone bovines

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more, ovines.

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founding

Hahaha

More cow bell!

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“Don’t Fear the Reaper”…I see Will Ferrell-LOL!

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founding

Good morning, I do not comment often but this plan by yet another government agency to manipulate nature and society is beyond the pale. I will donate to a legal defense to stop them from disturbing even one cat. The person or persons who thought up this idea should be brought out to explain to the public how this plan was even thought up. Faceless and nameless bureaucrats should not have the power to implement plans such as this.

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I never comment but this has moved me to do so! I sent a a comment to the NPS and if there's more I can do I will.

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Good. I did as well.

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founding

And yes comment sent. Thank you for pointing this out.

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Comment sent. The public have been abused by their governments for years (at least in the States) but the last 3 have been on steroids. Is anyone really surprised at this as just 1 more way to induce unhappiness, destroy history & cherished traditions & otherwise demoralize people with thoughtless (or more likely well-thought) bad acts?

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It was a Karen. You can bet she is probably allergic or something

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Sent a comment! Leave the cats alone and protect them.

Get curators or rangers that appreciate them and not want to kill them!

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founding

What's the actual number of cats? Any evidence of overcrowding, diseased or starving animals, dead cats lying in the alleys? I expect not. If the number of cats seems high, surely there are or can be adopt a cat programs, free spay/neuter then release programs?

Another example of people with too much time on their hands needing to feel useful by inventing a 'problem' where none exists and coming up with a 'solution' that offends sane folks and likely creates a worse problem, like plagues of rats.

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The link to the Save a Gato charity shows that it is already carrying out a neutering programme at the site, supporting the feral cats which cannot be adopted, and taking pregnant cats into care so kittens can be adopted. They seem like the organisation with the full understanding of the situation. Sounds as though a lot could be done through them. I'd like to see their full view on this.

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founding

Maybe if everyone gave a couple bucks to Save a Gato our Bad Cat could match?

Maybe through a small portion of the monthly subscription fee could be repurposed.

It would be easy and verifiable.

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founding

Do you think the NPS will come for the dumbest animals on earth in Kauai?

Nope

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founding

Probably not, but I have to ask: which is the dumbest animal on earth? (H. sap?)

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Roosters. . Lol

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founding

Well played!

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The "dumbest animals on earth" walk on their hind legs; and apparently, infest the offices of the NPS.

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yeah I'm curious too! which animals? I should know, but I'm stumped.

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Chickens. Google “chickens of Kauai”

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Oh, that's what you were talking about.. Cuz I was pretty sure the Obamas were on Oahu...

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thank you! of course.

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The result of a bloated bureaucratic state. Create a problem that doesn’t exist, then institute a solution nobody wants or asked for. SAVE THE CATS!

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Indeed. Sounds like a make-work type decision. Trying to justify their department's existence and to flex and show a little power.

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Lemme see. Cats been in San Juan for over 500 years. Ecological disaster has had half a millennium to develop due to kitty concentrations. But in that timespan nothing bad has happened apart from the struggle of mama cats trying to raise kittens outside of a human controlled home.

I think I got it. They are bringing all the scary movies from the Seventies into reality. We’ve already seen the Omega Man script play out; watching the developing Soylent Green story line... They’re bringing Willard to real time now.

Because a deep evil has taken control of the levers of power. It seems they do these things for their own entertainment because of the sickness in their souls.

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Great comment! The “sickness of their souls”- BOOM💥!

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Thank you for calling attention to this matter. I will submit comments.

As someone who has managed feral cat colonies with TNR, I find this plan horrifying.

There's no reason for euthanasia when they can be fixed and released.

Shame on those who can't see the blessing of God's creatures.

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None of these spay & neuter programs have ever worked anywhere.

You don’t agree?

Then prove me wrong.

.

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Proove your thesis that they dont work!

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That's bizarre. Why can't they just set up a spay/neuter program like everybody else?

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author

it already exists.

that's save a gato, a private entity.

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founding

Yes exactly, and hire a real cat charity organization to oversee the humane process of Spay/Nueter and return. Great idea!

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because none of them have ever worked....anywhere

you don’t believe me?

then find a science-based article that proves your point, and refutes mine.

.

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science-based?

I'm not familiar with this term. Is it like "plant-based" or "based on a true story"?

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Aww gatitos. I've never been but now I want to visit just to see them.

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Me too! One point I made was that doing this "for the tourists" is absurd, since not only do the tourists not seem to have a problem with the cats,but I've never even heard of the place and now I want to visit! The cats are a draw!

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I once went to a fort in Cartagena Colombia where there were a few semi-feral cats. Definitely made the experience nicer, and cuter.

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We used to have feral cats in our woods when I was fourteen. Once I sat very still and a kitten eventually came up and let me pet it and pick it up!

I miss having kitty cats around. Dogs are nice,but they're like cute little kids. Cats are like grown.people.

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Done. I’ve been there several times and love the cats. Even if I hadn’t and didn’t, this is just make-work for an all consuming bureaucracy. Disgusting.

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First they came for the cats and some complained. The people were relieved when only half of the cats were "removed," Then they came for the people and the people were relieved when only half of the people were "removed" The kinder, gentler, God-fearing days have become the great dystopian present.

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I just sent this comment..."I heard about the NPS wanting to remove cats from San Juan, Puerto Rico... I am shocked and saddened, I hope the Park Service will rethink this... the people of San Juan love the cats, the tourists love them as well... and they provide a valuable service, that has been going on for hundreds of years... to keep the rat population at a minimum. No city wants rats, though they themselves can be quite cute, they can host terrible disease... unlike a cat. If anything a spay/neuter program to keep the cat population in check is a good plan... as long as the cats are healthy and loved, leave them be. From the many photos I have seen they are just that." Hope with the many others on here sending comments the NPS will rethink it's stupid plan! I myself have 6 cats... we rescued most of them... 2 were born here from a feral cat and we took them in, several just showed up, and we took them in... we get them fixed and then they live a long happy life here on the Funny Farm... all are in the house, or have the garage for shelter in heat or cold... we love our gatos!

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I have three semi-ferals that I trapped and had neutered. They don't come in the house, but have two heated little houses for them. I wouldn't mind them in the house, but they are quite reserved and aloof as cats can be. They allow a few strokes from time to time, but that's about it.

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They did this to Paris. Rats as big as cats in the parks. Now instead of cats, the famous black cat 🐈‍⬛ paintings tourists buy, there are dogs EVERYWHERE, in apartments! Cats belong in the city and dogs in the countryside. You have to watch your feet while walking so you don’t step in the dog crap all over.

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Done! I’d visit simply to see the cats. As in places in Europe with dogs and other public animals.

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It might be an ecological disaster... Look at Australia, rabbits, and myxomatosis...

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