And as I've started reading more, I think ANY scientist in the world that has worked on coronavirus vaccines in animals knew that this was unlikely to work effectively, durably, or safely. They've been so quiet.
We have not been quiet, we're just pessimistic tin-foil hat wearing anti-vaxxers (a la my brother & SIL). They would know, because the CDC and CNN says so.
There WAS quiet. 90% of scientists should have been against this shit. Only a few dozen dared to speak out and be cancelled. The vast majority of biologists cowered in fear.
That kind of observational data with so much variability in COVID-19 attribution is considered low-quality scientific data. Garbage-in, garbage-out is so common that it has an acronym.
Yes, many scientists have been censored. But I was referring to the hundreds of coronavirus vaccine research specifically. Many hundreds of researchers that have spent their careers attempting to get these coronavirus vaccines to work in ferrets, baboons, cats, rats, mice, etc. They know these risks better than anybody.
But it's NOT just censorship! This shit should have been obvious to 90% of scientists, and having those numbers, them speaking out should have been easy. So they did practice SILENCE and meekness... because, specially biologists, tend to be meek.
Very similar to a handful of hot-button topics. Anyone who dares to criticize or publish about [censored*] runs the risk of fines or prison, even in many supposedly "free" Western nations. Even in nations that have strong protection of freedom of speech and thought, these topics can and do lead to witch hunts, lawsuits, government investigations and often ruined careers. Again, this is not about an authoritarian regime like China or the old Soviet Union. I am referring to several nations in Western Europe, North America and elsewhere in the "rich" world.
*I'll not say exactly what it is, except that it is what, in saner times, would have been questions of little interest beyond academic study, debate or interest.
You beat me to it. And there is a great deal of evidence that the pharmaceutical companies knew *exactly* what would happen as they gave everyone in the control group the vaccine at 90 days to eliminate any comparison. This isn't just pharmaceutical companies being pharmaceutical companies, or bureaucrats being bureaucrats, or greedy bastards being greedy bastards. There's a purpose and maliciousness here that makes one wonder how on earth do you punish a bunch of people who have knowingly caused this much destruction so that no one dares to do it again? They obviously don't care about people in general. There's no way any contrition on their part would be real. We're just lab rats with wallets to them. But they do care about themselves. Death is too good for them. We need something else.
Exactly. Anyone who was paying any attention in February/March 2020 knew the same data we know today. Even the Health officials were still following recognised science until early March 2020. It's only once Big Pharma used media to fear monger that the public became hysterical and pushed the politicians to bring in the troops.
It's ALL for Big Pharma money, and Big Pharma control the WEF. Big Pharma, the Medical Industrial Complex, just like the Military Industrial Complex, run everything for their own benefit.
Are you Sure? I'm actually interested in finding out if and how much shedding happens with the Genetic Vaccines. Maybe they don't injure the person in contact with the shedding, but it's worth looking into anyway.
I think the most troubling hazard of "second hand spike" is (non-antiviral) immune sensitization - becoming "allergic" to spike, which would lead to antibody dependent enhancement during later viral challenge - or immune tolerance (confusing spike for something normal) (as mentioned last month on my sub https://unglossed.substack.com/p/forever-spike#footnote-anchor-13). Spike alone can potentially prompt formation of syncytia (fused cells). I'm sanguine about possible harms to lungs / gut because those cells can turnover / heal. I think there could be some potential for eye / ear damage, effects on balance, etc. On the bright side, we're surrounded by tons of gnarly chemicals as a baseline so what's one more hazard?
Excellent points. Thank you for sharing. I'll read in a bit, but I just wanted to add a few other points: It would be good if someone actually tested the shedding dynamics because currently we are assuming based on the exosomal finding that this must happen.
I do agree that there is no reason to think some spike isn't making it out of our systems given what we know about it's expression and circulation basically everywhere. I'm much more worried by the relaxed nature of investigators who show little to no curiosity about urgent questions like the amount of spike being shed. The form in which it's shed, the route etc.
I was flabbergasted when the author of a recent paper on anti-spike antibodies found in saliva expressed "surprise" that they found Anti-S protein antibodies aplenty in the mouth. Why on earth would they assume that these antibodies would be restricted, unless they believe that SARS-COV-2 infection doesn't happen through the oral route or they believe that the spike protein couldn't possibly have travelled into someone's mouth or worse, actually been produced locally.
Wouldn't someone who is paid to learn about Immunology at least have some semblance of what we should be looking for and why it could be important? Instead of marveling at their surprise that anti spike antibodies were found in the saliva, shouldn't they have immediately tried to test different hypothesis for it's presence there? Is it gene expression, is it spike endogenous spike, is it spike being shed by someone else that the person might have made out with? Fecal oral route. Was it because the spike protein was able to thwart an infection of the virus that was floating around?
Absolutely zero curiosity about the mechanisms, so of course, we have no idea about the hazards either.
I'd add one possibility of benefit though. It's possible that if spike is being shed orally or nasally and that if it's in a large amount, the NK cells might not be able clear it and it might lead to some kind of adaptive immune response that is superior from a epidemiological standpoint of getting some kind of mucosal immunity in exactly the way the virus is likely to enter (ignoring OAS, ADE risks). Repeated exposures might train the upper respiratory tract over periods of months to spot and neutralize it within seconds.
This second hand exposure scenario is certainly dreamy and positive as it would stop the most important thing these vaccines are creating: onward transmission.
Systemic administration of vaccine means no mucosal immunity exists and the virus exploits this delay in antibodies arriving to find an unsuspecting unvaccinated host who now has only the innate immunity to fight off the viral load and no mucosal immunity or t-cell immunity. If infection happens, it's pretty bad unless the virus is slowed down. This is why I think doing this research might give us clues about what benefit or hazards might be floating around.
If what I am thinking can happen or is happening, then it will mean that rogue spike proteins being ejected into the environment might train the immune system of babies, spouses other vaccinated, just enough so that they can block infection through mucosal immunity. This is so important to stop the evolution of the virus as without onward transmission, it's last hope is trying some immune escape trick or ADE to trick the s-protein antibodies. it might actually have done that to achieve it's Delta form which is not just high transmissibility due to the excessive spike protein antibodies it has to deal with, but also immune escape to prevent detection.
Sounds like Hopium. but why aren't people testing what's happening with spike shedding? What if it's a feature for the unvaccinated, you get your disease protection, I get sterilizing immunity protection. You pick up the spike toxicity tab, I pick up the Covid infection without t-cell immunity tab. All Even, until the vaccinees start boosting and create 100x viral load unvaccinated cannot possibly block with innate immunity or extinct wuhan spike trained mucosal immunity.
"Repeated exposures might train the upper respiratory tract over periods of months to spot and neutralize it within seconds."
This is the idea behind a self-spreading viral "coronavirus vaccine," and may be what SARS-CoV-2 was actually designed to be (as JJ Couey puts it, it's an incredibly stupid idea but it writes grant applications). As for whether the mRNA / vector Covid vaccines create the same "pass on immunization," I agree there should be way more curiosity out in the research.
But the implications would probably be negative. Normal T Cell immunity does not obsess over spike - there are much more stable coronavirus proteins to go after. So the individual immune system doesn't vote in favor of the plan. And the "species immune system" seems to vote against sustained pressure on spike protein as well - rather, antibodies drift, allowing the virus to survive and proliferate without having to innovate in spike all the time. I'm not very convinced that the Covid vaccines actually drove the increased rate in spike evolution that began just about a year ago, nor that they are driving it now. After all, cases seem to be increasing all around now that everyone has left the "infection efficacy" window. Why would the virus bother trying to escape antibodies that aren't stopping infection? But, of course, the boosters put such an event on the table. The point is that even if the outcome (increasing population-wide "sterilizing" immunity + driving spike escape) is unlikely, it's undesirable.
I'm not an immunologist or biologist but wouldn't it be kinda useless to be able to recognize and fend off one spike of a virus? Isn't it better to have the long term memory in the T cells to the virus itself. Wouldn't there be more proteins to recognize to be able to hold off mutations as well? Aren't we at this moment encouraging a mutation against one spike instead of mutation towards less mortality?
I guess they were successful in vaccinating a few hundred million first and a few billion after. Successful for now. 😉
Thanks for the explanation. Can you tell me why t-cell immunity would be involved in mucosal immunity? I was under the impression that mucosal immunity is completely independent and unaware of adaptive immunity and functions autonomously to neutralize common molecules it's learned about before they can make biological (toxicological) impact. I was lead to believe that mucosal immunity acts in the order of milliseconds to seconds [as in the ability the nasal passage to up or down regulate it's sensitivity to specific molecules] while t-cells are slow and take a while to recognize an infected cell, sometimes days. Is my understanding fundamentally deficient or wrong?
Once I understand how this works, I could evaluate if the impact would be negative or positive or unknown.
Oh - and there's signs that infection starts off in the mouth (and maybe respiratory tract) (https://unglossed.substack.com/p/travels-to-maskladesh#footnote-anchor-5), which possibly accounts for the fact that PCR testing wasn't such a bad correlate for natural infection as was believed - you can't scrape coronavirus off the bottom of someone's brain-pan until there's at least an amount of asymptomatic spread that correlates with a later memory immune response. Agree that it's odd to be surprised to find antibodies in saliva.
Just a layman's point of view: I think the S-spike shedding problem is overblown. We know that the mechanism of the mRNA jabs is to cause our cells to produce the S-spike protein. This is supposed to be localized to the muscle area of injection, but in principle it can occur with any cell in the body (and this may be the source of many illnesses too, but we are not discussing those right now.) If S-spike is appearing in saliva, it is not unreasonable to expect it could be a "payload" in aerosols from jabbed person. Next question: obviously a "naive" (uninfected) person could inhale them. What then? The S-spike itself is incapable of reproducing. It may have some effect on the Naive, but logic suggests the quantity of protein would be very low. In fact, we can put an optimistic spin on it: the Naive is getting the "pure" S-spike with none of the other ingredients of a jab.
Me to. Dont take it. More cases of Covid in New Zealand after vaccines started up. More Delta variant especially after big pushes of free meals prizes to coerce people to take vaccines. The 1-2 weeks later, still in Lockdown 3 with PM putting blame on unvaxxed becos we cant go to hairdressers dentists restaurants etc becos we are 'supposedly' the spreaders of covid. How can we spread when we have been jailed yo our homes fir 2 1/2 mths. Aucklands taken the toll of these draconian measures. Our health officials are not taking note of other countries experts. They have their heads in the sand or they're getting big payoffs from pharma.
Last yr l had to wait for 6 mths with an abscessed tooth becos of lockdowns. Surely if you dont have Covid you are clear. Truth reign over evil please. Amen
Loving it! This isn't rocket science...anything from big pharma that comes to market that quick, one should have a healthy hesitancy about. If you don't, you are a moron. It's that simple.
A big question is: What does Sweden do about it? They refused to lockdown and mask like most of the world. Will they buck the world again and take an official position that the vaccines are a failure and move aggressively to treatments?
It is clear that Sweden had a lot of built up immunity prior to their large vaccination program beginning in earnest. To me, the most interesting thing to come there is to see if the vaccines negatively impact natural immunity. The size of their upcoming Winter wave compared to last year will be very telling
I anticipate most of the world ignores it just like most of the world ignored pre-Covid pandemic response plans and went into don't-let-a-crisis-go-to-waste mode (or if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe only look-like-you're-doing-something mode).
You are assuming they will publish it. Don't get me wrong, I hope they do. But after seeing what happened to the Rose McCullough paper on VAERS and myocarditis, I'm not so sure.
But yeah, even if they do publish it, likely no one will pay much attention - or they'll get the "misinformation" moniker like for e/t else that runs counter to the approved malarky.
Taco - my 12 year old is all for the move to Sweden. I keep telling him it's too cold, but that's starting to sound like a first world problem. And the USA is rapidly losing its "first world status"
"If we do a really good job with vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower {world population} by perhaps 10 to 15 percent." — Bill Gates, funder of Moderna (and likely Pfizer as well)
Evil. He's doing great with the vaxxes, he's doing a lovely job destroying our healthcare system, they're fighting tooth and nail for mail-order abortions (and maybe a special discount if you mail dead fetal parts to Fauci for some nice research).
This fact check is hilarious, because it basically confirms everything but calls it false because he only wants to reduce population *growth* through vaccines, which apparently isn't the same as population reduction. It also has links to the full TED talk and a Sanjay Gupta interview where he said the same thing.
"the simple fact is this: rushing vaccines of a brand new type never before used in humans (but known to be problematic in animals) was always a deeply bad idea." I have been pondering this truth lately. And, although you said we had no idea how this would play out, it PLAYED out similarly in ALL the animal trials (whatever animal they looked at!). Whether ferrets, cats, mice, baboons - these coronavirus vaccines were not working right, and often worsening outcomes. Further, the short-lived effectiveness (in other words, most definitely NOT DURABLE) showed up in every example I could find. Sort of like "coronavirus vaccine research 101" top info would be:
1) NOT DURABLE
2) OFTEN WORSENS OUTCOMES
3) ANTIBODY LEVELS DON'T TRANSLATE TO PROTECTION
But, um, not only let's do this for humans (and all of their man-cubs), but let's skip animal trials in this case and rush this vaccine to market!! Because we're so ethical with our treatment of animals. As Beaglegate and Bat-Torturers and Baboon-SARS experiments show.
And that's not even considering what the horrific delivery system (mRNA and lipid nanoparticles) is doing to people.
My God, My God, please punish the wicked!! Do not let them wag their heads and say "God is not watching me!"
Mostly agree! One of my side projects is to amass a "reading list" of "scholarly articles", as opposed to Twitter tweets , that support these assertions. I believe they exist. The problem is there are lots, thousands, of studies every year. It's much more dramatic, of course to simply say "all the animals died!" which may have been true in some cases. But the truth is usually more complex than that and the case less clear. While it takes more time to understand the background issues, and definitely a lot more to compile the data, it would much better support a claim if I could say "Here's study X that showed ...." and "Study Y showed....." There is an old saying: "Education is not knowing the answer, it is knowing how to find the answer." The problem is that requires time and effort. But one thing is certain: you won't learn the truth from the MSM.
A cult indeed, but this new religion has been years in the making. I have just finished working through Carl Zimmer's book A Planet of Viruses in a critical thinking class (yes, one needs to actually teach critical thinking, which students are highly suspicious of). Zimmer basically pushes germ theory and vaccines at every turn. Whaaat, a New York Times columnist would do such a thing?!! For an alternative view, students have to compare Zimmer to Zach Bush's monologue on the Virome, where he basically presents a terrain theory approach to understanding the pandemic. It will be interesting to see if I am reported for misinformation by the week's end (yes the college has an anonymous reporting system for “dangerous behavior”.
Winter is coming, respiratory illness season beckons in the north. People will soon discover what a colossal failure these injections are, fewer will be interested in the boosts, and Brandon is discovering post haste what a stupid idea the mandates were. I expect that his maskless appearances of late are a planned signal from the white house that it is time to move on, or the midterm massacre in a year will be even worse for team blue than already lke,ly to be the case. Democrats are likely scared scheissless over the investigations that will happen if the other side controls committees, and things are not looking good for them at the moment with “lets go Brandon” songs becoming the new national anthem.
"taking the adverse event risk again," I could be mistaken, but i believe Robert Malone has expressed this risk is cumulative rather than just repetitive.
yes, likely the immunogenic ones are cumulative but some risks might be transient or situational and one could try to assess if those risks are present or absent at each injection event. Let's say the first vaccine reactivated shingles, would the second one do so again?
On the other hand, say the lipid nano particle has some unknown level of toxicity to a part of the body where it's accumulating. Repeated exposure will be cumulative risk and not situational.
This should lead folks ("should" is best case scenario) to wonder what the difference is between the vaccine and early treatments is? Let me see...early treatments (off label drugs, herbs, and supplements) augment your natural immune response but don't alter it, they don't need to be boosted every few months because your immune system learns from the experience, they work on all variants, the side effects are less and much more predictable, they're cheaper, they're widely available (barring deliberate f#$%wad interference), they don't require coercion and so on..
On the other hand, these 'vaccines' are in effect just crappy drugs. They don't work like vaccines, they have wild, severe and unpredictable side effects, they constantly need refreshing, they don't augment your natural immune response, and they have no long term safety data. The list goes on.
Neither is guaranteed to save you but which one would you choose?
And the perverse thing is that I would bet that any doctor who favors early treatment or prophylaxis would be much likely to care if you had a reaction to one of the drugs (e.g. ivermectin) and adjust accordingly. On the other hand if you have a bad reaction or severe side effect from the vaccines it's just "oh well, probably just a coincidence, sucks to be you." The sheer callousness and disregard for those people is sickening.
My question is, how did Moderna and Pfizer know to stop their trials at 3-4 months? I don’t see how they could unless they’d already made and tested them.
Anti-conspiracy alert: Yes and no. This doesn't necessarily mean they had a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine before the pandemic began. But clearly there was plenty of research going back to roughly 2003, after the "original" SARS virus outbreak created research interest. It'd be more accurate to say "They had several prototypes and prior data from closely related viruses such as SARS or MERS."
The first covid vaccination using the spike protein was patented by Pfizer in US Patent 6372224, which Pfizer applied for on January, 28th, 2000 Yes - 21 years ago.
BigT - I'm with Bootsorourke. EVERY attempt at a coronavirus vaccine in animals showed short duration of protection, if it even gave protection. They had numerous other problems too, such as sometimes causing worsened disease outcomes.
Everyone wanted the trial to be as short as possible to get the product to market (the virus looked a lot more dangerous back then) and this was more or less the acceptable minimum.
Great post as usual. Question about "the immunity was supposed to be sterilizing. it’s not." Do you have a link showing that this was what was said at the beginning? I thought it was, but haven't found any clear "official" statements.
When people ask why I'm not taking these vaccines, one thing I always mention is that "they've been wrong about so much - one reason I believe strongly in phase III trials."
Try looking for officials saying "preventing transmission" - which I do remember them saying a lot. That's political speak for "sterilizing", since the layperson wouldn't like to hear that word, LOL.
With my natural immunity, I've been going everywhere trying to get variants. The more I'm exposed, the better off I'll be. But now I'm heading to San Francisco next week where I'll probably get exposed to much worse than covid variants. Extreme liberalism (shudder)
every few years In Before Times, the "flu" that was dominant in winter was actually a coronavirus variant. only in 2020 was this cause for concern, and remaking ... everything.
That is possible, but a citation would be helpful. I have only a "Wikipedia" knowledge of these matters, but the true influenza is most definitely NOT a coronavirus. Some cold viruses are, but only a tiny fraction of the dozens or hundreds known.
None of this information is unknown to or public health authorities. The fact they don't charge course, or even acknowledge these facts, is proof positive that there's something truly nefarious going on.
Exactly how long does the risk from the vax last? Do we know? Does the risk fade with the efficacy or does the risk remain at some steady state forever? Do the boosters compound the risk or does it start anew with each shot? Is it the risk of a car accident on your one trip to Paris or is it the risk of running across the 405 freeway 24/7 for the rest of your life?
This is based on nothing but conjecture, but to me it seems likely that risks are mostly cumulative. Now it's true that the body can repair itself but that is not true in all cases. Gato, Berenson perhaps others report that heart and neurological (nerve) disorders seem to be increasing (presumably) driven by the vaxxes. Alas, nerve and heart tissue do not regenerate (as a rule? exceptions?) Maybe the immune system fades with repeated boosts; I already "lost" this argument on another forum, because I could cite no evidence.
I agree with you, and suspect the harms are cumulative, but of course there's no real "evidence" at this point. It should be up to Pharma to prove there are no harms....
The negative effectiveness needs to be explored further. I've begun to think of the mRNA therapies as a kind of "steroid". In the case of human growth hormone (HGH), one course will certainly help you generate muscle growth in the short term, particularly if you're trying to rehab an injury quickly; but repeated abuse has less-the-zero deleterious effects on the body, up to and including Leukemia. I suspect that continued boosting will be deleterious to at least one's immune system, but probably a number of other systems as well. You are, after all, forcing massive numbers of cells in the body to do something they were never intended to do. Like, well, Leukemia...
"we had no idea how this was going to play out."
as i recall, the people who suspected how it would play out were very quickly silenced.
And as I've started reading more, I think ANY scientist in the world that has worked on coronavirus vaccines in animals knew that this was unlikely to work effectively, durably, or safely. They've been so quiet.
We have not been quiet, we're just pessimistic tin-foil hat wearing anti-vaxxers (a la my brother & SIL). They would know, because the CDC and CNN says so.
Live it loud and sing it to the world, shove your covid gene therapy!
There WAS quiet. 90% of scientists should have been against this shit. Only a few dozen dared to speak out and be cancelled. The vast majority of biologists cowered in fear.
au contraire. many in the pro vax community have just looked at data.
i personally watch statista data on mortality and copy it every day to a spreadsheet
anti-vaxxers are as brainwashed as the mask cultists
That kind of observational data with so much variability in COVID-19 attribution is considered low-quality scientific data. Garbage-in, garbage-out is so common that it has an acronym.
Please expand Bob Jones.
don't expect anything from bob jones except obfuscation. welcome to brigade 77, our tax dollars at work
They have not been quite. They are being censored!
Yes, many scientists have been censored. But I was referring to the hundreds of coronavirus vaccine research specifically. Many hundreds of researchers that have spent their careers attempting to get these coronavirus vaccines to work in ferrets, baboons, cats, rats, mice, etc. They know these risks better than anybody.
the ones they sell to farmers for chickens have to be boosted quite often. Money money money
But it's NOT just censorship! This shit should have been obvious to 90% of scientists, and having those numbers, them speaking out should have been easy. So they did practice SILENCE and meekness... because, specially biologists, tend to be meek.
Very similar to a handful of hot-button topics. Anyone who dares to criticize or publish about [censored*] runs the risk of fines or prison, even in many supposedly "free" Western nations. Even in nations that have strong protection of freedom of speech and thought, these topics can and do lead to witch hunts, lawsuits, government investigations and often ruined careers. Again, this is not about an authoritarian regime like China or the old Soviet Union. I am referring to several nations in Western Europe, North America and elsewhere in the "rich" world.
*I'll not say exactly what it is, except that it is what, in saner times, would have been questions of little interest beyond academic study, debate or interest.
You beat me to it. And there is a great deal of evidence that the pharmaceutical companies knew *exactly* what would happen as they gave everyone in the control group the vaccine at 90 days to eliminate any comparison. This isn't just pharmaceutical companies being pharmaceutical companies, or bureaucrats being bureaucrats, or greedy bastards being greedy bastards. There's a purpose and maliciousness here that makes one wonder how on earth do you punish a bunch of people who have knowingly caused this much destruction so that no one dares to do it again? They obviously don't care about people in general. There's no way any contrition on their part would be real. We're just lab rats with wallets to them. But they do care about themselves. Death is too good for them. We need something else.
The science has changed! March for science! Get with the program!
Exactly. Anyone who was paying any attention in February/March 2020 knew the same data we know today. Even the Health officials were still following recognised science until early March 2020. It's only once Big Pharma used media to fear monger that the public became hysterical and pushed the politicians to bring in the troops.
It's ALL for Big Pharma money, and Big Pharma control the WEF. Big Pharma, the Medical Industrial Complex, just like the Military Industrial Complex, run everything for their own benefit.
The good news is that I didn't take the vaccine and it has been 100 percent effective for me.
You’re also 100% protected from vaccine injuries
Are you Sure? I'm actually interested in finding out if and how much shedding happens with the Genetic Vaccines. Maybe they don't injure the person in contact with the shedding, but it's worth looking into anyway.
"Shedding" spike, potentially for months, is basically confirmed - https://www.jimmunol.org/content/early/2021/10/11/jimmunol.2100637.long (I haven't finished ordering access yet).
I think the most troubling hazard of "second hand spike" is (non-antiviral) immune sensitization - becoming "allergic" to spike, which would lead to antibody dependent enhancement during later viral challenge - or immune tolerance (confusing spike for something normal) (as mentioned last month on my sub https://unglossed.substack.com/p/forever-spike#footnote-anchor-13). Spike alone can potentially prompt formation of syncytia (fused cells). I'm sanguine about possible harms to lungs / gut because those cells can turnover / heal. I think there could be some potential for eye / ear damage, effects on balance, etc. On the bright side, we're surrounded by tons of gnarly chemicals as a baseline so what's one more hazard?
Excellent points. Thank you for sharing. I'll read in a bit, but I just wanted to add a few other points: It would be good if someone actually tested the shedding dynamics because currently we are assuming based on the exosomal finding that this must happen.
I do agree that there is no reason to think some spike isn't making it out of our systems given what we know about it's expression and circulation basically everywhere. I'm much more worried by the relaxed nature of investigators who show little to no curiosity about urgent questions like the amount of spike being shed. The form in which it's shed, the route etc.
I was flabbergasted when the author of a recent paper on anti-spike antibodies found in saliva expressed "surprise" that they found Anti-S protein antibodies aplenty in the mouth. Why on earth would they assume that these antibodies would be restricted, unless they believe that SARS-COV-2 infection doesn't happen through the oral route or they believe that the spike protein couldn't possibly have travelled into someone's mouth or worse, actually been produced locally.
Wouldn't someone who is paid to learn about Immunology at least have some semblance of what we should be looking for and why it could be important? Instead of marveling at their surprise that anti spike antibodies were found in the saliva, shouldn't they have immediately tried to test different hypothesis for it's presence there? Is it gene expression, is it spike endogenous spike, is it spike being shed by someone else that the person might have made out with? Fecal oral route. Was it because the spike protein was able to thwart an infection of the virus that was floating around?
Absolutely zero curiosity about the mechanisms, so of course, we have no idea about the hazards either.
I'd add one possibility of benefit though. It's possible that if spike is being shed orally or nasally and that if it's in a large amount, the NK cells might not be able clear it and it might lead to some kind of adaptive immune response that is superior from a epidemiological standpoint of getting some kind of mucosal immunity in exactly the way the virus is likely to enter (ignoring OAS, ADE risks). Repeated exposures might train the upper respiratory tract over periods of months to spot and neutralize it within seconds.
This second hand exposure scenario is certainly dreamy and positive as it would stop the most important thing these vaccines are creating: onward transmission.
Systemic administration of vaccine means no mucosal immunity exists and the virus exploits this delay in antibodies arriving to find an unsuspecting unvaccinated host who now has only the innate immunity to fight off the viral load and no mucosal immunity or t-cell immunity. If infection happens, it's pretty bad unless the virus is slowed down. This is why I think doing this research might give us clues about what benefit or hazards might be floating around.
If what I am thinking can happen or is happening, then it will mean that rogue spike proteins being ejected into the environment might train the immune system of babies, spouses other vaccinated, just enough so that they can block infection through mucosal immunity. This is so important to stop the evolution of the virus as without onward transmission, it's last hope is trying some immune escape trick or ADE to trick the s-protein antibodies. it might actually have done that to achieve it's Delta form which is not just high transmissibility due to the excessive spike protein antibodies it has to deal with, but also immune escape to prevent detection.
Sounds like Hopium. but why aren't people testing what's happening with spike shedding? What if it's a feature for the unvaccinated, you get your disease protection, I get sterilizing immunity protection. You pick up the spike toxicity tab, I pick up the Covid infection without t-cell immunity tab. All Even, until the vaccinees start boosting and create 100x viral load unvaccinated cannot possibly block with innate immunity or extinct wuhan spike trained mucosal immunity.
"Repeated exposures might train the upper respiratory tract over periods of months to spot and neutralize it within seconds."
This is the idea behind a self-spreading viral "coronavirus vaccine," and may be what SARS-CoV-2 was actually designed to be (as JJ Couey puts it, it's an incredibly stupid idea but it writes grant applications). As for whether the mRNA / vector Covid vaccines create the same "pass on immunization," I agree there should be way more curiosity out in the research.
But the implications would probably be negative. Normal T Cell immunity does not obsess over spike - there are much more stable coronavirus proteins to go after. So the individual immune system doesn't vote in favor of the plan. And the "species immune system" seems to vote against sustained pressure on spike protein as well - rather, antibodies drift, allowing the virus to survive and proliferate without having to innovate in spike all the time. I'm not very convinced that the Covid vaccines actually drove the increased rate in spike evolution that began just about a year ago, nor that they are driving it now. After all, cases seem to be increasing all around now that everyone has left the "infection efficacy" window. Why would the virus bother trying to escape antibodies that aren't stopping infection? But, of course, the boosters put such an event on the table. The point is that even if the outcome (increasing population-wide "sterilizing" immunity + driving spike escape) is unlikely, it's undesirable.
I'm not an immunologist or biologist but wouldn't it be kinda useless to be able to recognize and fend off one spike of a virus? Isn't it better to have the long term memory in the T cells to the virus itself. Wouldn't there be more proteins to recognize to be able to hold off mutations as well? Aren't we at this moment encouraging a mutation against one spike instead of mutation towards less mortality?
I guess they were successful in vaccinating a few hundred million first and a few billion after. Successful for now. 😉
Thanks for the explanation. Can you tell me why t-cell immunity would be involved in mucosal immunity? I was under the impression that mucosal immunity is completely independent and unaware of adaptive immunity and functions autonomously to neutralize common molecules it's learned about before they can make biological (toxicological) impact. I was lead to believe that mucosal immunity acts in the order of milliseconds to seconds [as in the ability the nasal passage to up or down regulate it's sensitivity to specific molecules] while t-cells are slow and take a while to recognize an infected cell, sometimes days. Is my understanding fundamentally deficient or wrong?
Once I understand how this works, I could evaluate if the impact would be negative or positive or unknown.
Oh - and there's signs that infection starts off in the mouth (and maybe respiratory tract) (https://unglossed.substack.com/p/travels-to-maskladesh#footnote-anchor-5), which possibly accounts for the fact that PCR testing wasn't such a bad correlate for natural infection as was believed - you can't scrape coronavirus off the bottom of someone's brain-pan until there's at least an amount of asymptomatic spread that correlates with a later memory immune response. Agree that it's odd to be surprised to find antibodies in saliva.
*(and maybe gastrointestinal tract) I meant
Just a layman's point of view: I think the S-spike shedding problem is overblown. We know that the mechanism of the mRNA jabs is to cause our cells to produce the S-spike protein. This is supposed to be localized to the muscle area of injection, but in principle it can occur with any cell in the body (and this may be the source of many illnesses too, but we are not discussing those right now.) If S-spike is appearing in saliva, it is not unreasonable to expect it could be a "payload" in aerosols from jabbed person. Next question: obviously a "naive" (uninfected) person could inhale them. What then? The S-spike itself is incapable of reproducing. It may have some effect on the Naive, but logic suggests the quantity of protein would be very low. In fact, we can put an optimistic spin on it: the Naive is getting the "pure" S-spike with none of the other ingredients of a jab.
yiiiikes
I found this full text of the paper shared elsewhere: https://pdfhost.io/v/ZRcezbv7t_JI2100637_proof
Yes - I spent $37.50 for nothing. I've done a rundown of the paper at https://unglossed.substack.com/p/liquid-cancer#footnote-anchor-3
Ha! Me too!
Me to. Dont take it. More cases of Covid in New Zealand after vaccines started up. More Delta variant especially after big pushes of free meals prizes to coerce people to take vaccines. The 1-2 weeks later, still in Lockdown 3 with PM putting blame on unvaxxed becos we cant go to hairdressers dentists restaurants etc becos we are 'supposedly' the spreaders of covid. How can we spread when we have been jailed yo our homes fir 2 1/2 mths. Aucklands taken the toll of these draconian measures. Our health officials are not taking note of other countries experts. They have their heads in the sand or they're getting big payoffs from pharma.
Last yr l had to wait for 6 mths with an abscessed tooth becos of lockdowns. Surely if you dont have Covid you are clear. Truth reign over evil please. Amen
I follow sky news in Australia. I feel so bad for New Zealand. It is a wonderful and beautiful country.
Loving it! This isn't rocket science...anything from big pharma that comes to market that quick, one should have a healthy hesitancy about. If you don't, you are a moron. It's that simple.
Me too!!!
A big question is: What does Sweden do about it? They refused to lockdown and mask like most of the world. Will they buck the world again and take an official position that the vaccines are a failure and move aggressively to treatments?
It is clear that Sweden had a lot of built up immunity prior to their large vaccination program beginning in earnest. To me, the most interesting thing to come there is to see if the vaccines negatively impact natural immunity. The size of their upcoming Winter wave compared to last year will be very telling
That was not by chance. I believe they chose to follow Bossche's advice to not vax into the pandemic, but to wait for the seasonal lull.
the big, big question is - what does the rest of the world do once the lancet publishes it?
I anticipate most of the world ignores it just like most of the world ignored pre-Covid pandemic response plans and went into don't-let-a-crisis-go-to-waste mode (or if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe only look-like-you're-doing-something mode).
You are assuming they will publish it. Don't get me wrong, I hope they do. But after seeing what happened to the Rose McCullough paper on VAERS and myocarditis, I'm not so sure.
But yeah, even if they do publish it, likely no one will pay much attention - or they'll get the "misinformation" moniker like for e/t else that runs counter to the approved malarky.
they will use it to promote boosters!!
If they do, I may want to move aggressively to Sweden.
Taco - my 12 year old is all for the move to Sweden. I keep telling him it's too cold, but that's starting to sound like a first world problem. And the USA is rapidly losing its "first world status"
Too cold? Wait until the rolling blackouts here in the USA this winter. No heat, and if you have gas or oil, too expensive.
I'm afraid you may be right about this.
They are very good at heating their enclosed spaces. It's difficult to get a visa, I think, but it's worth having in your back pocket as a Plan B.
I hope so, many successful early tx programs out there. FLCCC, I-Math and I-Mask protocols etc.
"If we do a really good job with vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower {world population} by perhaps 10 to 15 percent." — Bill Gates, funder of Moderna (and likely Pfizer as well)
If anyone wants to know more about Gates' crooked dealings, James Corbett has an excellent documentary: https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/
Evil. He's doing great with the vaxxes, he's doing a lovely job destroying our healthcare system, they're fighting tooth and nail for mail-order abortions (and maybe a special discount if you mail dead fetal parts to Fauci for some nice research).
Did he actually say that or is this what we think is in his mind?
He actually said it at a TED talk in 2010 (IIRC). There's video of it on youtube.
This fact check is hilarious, because it basically confirms everything but calls it false because he only wants to reduce population *growth* through vaccines, which apparently isn't the same as population reduction. It also has links to the full TED talk and a Sanjay Gupta interview where he said the same thing.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-video-targets-gates-with-old-clip-misleading-edit/
Hey, what are you going to believe, me or the really obvious video evidence?
Do i need a /sarc tag there? It's sad that I just realized that some people would say that sentence and actually mean it.
Those people probably aren't on substack, though.
thank you
thank you
"the simple fact is this: rushing vaccines of a brand new type never before used in humans (but known to be problematic in animals) was always a deeply bad idea." I have been pondering this truth lately. And, although you said we had no idea how this would play out, it PLAYED out similarly in ALL the animal trials (whatever animal they looked at!). Whether ferrets, cats, mice, baboons - these coronavirus vaccines were not working right, and often worsening outcomes. Further, the short-lived effectiveness (in other words, most definitely NOT DURABLE) showed up in every example I could find. Sort of like "coronavirus vaccine research 101" top info would be:
1) NOT DURABLE
2) OFTEN WORSENS OUTCOMES
3) ANTIBODY LEVELS DON'T TRANSLATE TO PROTECTION
But, um, not only let's do this for humans (and all of their man-cubs), but let's skip animal trials in this case and rush this vaccine to market!! Because we're so ethical with our treatment of animals. As Beaglegate and Bat-Torturers and Baboon-SARS experiments show.
And that's not even considering what the horrific delivery system (mRNA and lipid nanoparticles) is doing to people.
My God, My God, please punish the wicked!! Do not let them wag their heads and say "God is not watching me!"
Mostly agree! One of my side projects is to amass a "reading list" of "scholarly articles", as opposed to Twitter tweets , that support these assertions. I believe they exist. The problem is there are lots, thousands, of studies every year. It's much more dramatic, of course to simply say "all the animals died!" which may have been true in some cases. But the truth is usually more complex than that and the case less clear. While it takes more time to understand the background issues, and definitely a lot more to compile the data, it would much better support a claim if I could say "Here's study X that showed ...." and "Study Y showed....." There is an old saying: "Education is not knowing the answer, it is knowing how to find the answer." The problem is that requires time and effort. But one thing is certain: you won't learn the truth from the MSM.
A cult indeed, but this new religion has been years in the making. I have just finished working through Carl Zimmer's book A Planet of Viruses in a critical thinking class (yes, one needs to actually teach critical thinking, which students are highly suspicious of). Zimmer basically pushes germ theory and vaccines at every turn. Whaaat, a New York Times columnist would do such a thing?!! For an alternative view, students have to compare Zimmer to Zach Bush's monologue on the Virome, where he basically presents a terrain theory approach to understanding the pandemic. It will be interesting to see if I am reported for misinformation by the week's end (yes the college has an anonymous reporting system for “dangerous behavior”.
Winter is coming, respiratory illness season beckons in the north. People will soon discover what a colossal failure these injections are, fewer will be interested in the boosts, and Brandon is discovering post haste what a stupid idea the mandates were. I expect that his maskless appearances of late are a planned signal from the white house that it is time to move on, or the midterm massacre in a year will be even worse for team blue than already lke,ly to be the case. Democrats are likely scared scheissless over the investigations that will happen if the other side controls committees, and things are not looking good for them at the moment with “lets go Brandon” songs becoming the new national anthem.
"scheissless". love it
I hope so
"taking the adverse event risk again," I could be mistaken, but i believe Robert Malone has expressed this risk is cumulative rather than just repetitive.
refusenick - yes, he has recently written this.
yes, likely the immunogenic ones are cumulative but some risks might be transient or situational and one could try to assess if those risks are present or absent at each injection event. Let's say the first vaccine reactivated shingles, would the second one do so again?
On the other hand, say the lipid nano particle has some unknown level of toxicity to a part of the body where it's accumulating. Repeated exposure will be cumulative risk and not situational.
This should lead folks ("should" is best case scenario) to wonder what the difference is between the vaccine and early treatments is? Let me see...early treatments (off label drugs, herbs, and supplements) augment your natural immune response but don't alter it, they don't need to be boosted every few months because your immune system learns from the experience, they work on all variants, the side effects are less and much more predictable, they're cheaper, they're widely available (barring deliberate f#$%wad interference), they don't require coercion and so on..
On the other hand, these 'vaccines' are in effect just crappy drugs. They don't work like vaccines, they have wild, severe and unpredictable side effects, they constantly need refreshing, they don't augment your natural immune response, and they have no long term safety data. The list goes on.
Neither is guaranteed to save you but which one would you choose?
C'mon man.
Are you crazy!? That's like waiting until a dog breaks its leg to attach wheels to it!
And the perverse thing is that I would bet that any doctor who favors early treatment or prophylaxis would be much likely to care if you had a reaction to one of the drugs (e.g. ivermectin) and adjust accordingly. On the other hand if you have a bad reaction or severe side effect from the vaccines it's just "oh well, probably just a coincidence, sucks to be you." The sheer callousness and disregard for those people is sickening.
My question is, how did Moderna and Pfizer know to stop their trials at 3-4 months? I don’t see how they could unless they’d already made and tested them.
they'd already made and tested them
Anti-conspiracy alert: Yes and no. This doesn't necessarily mean they had a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine before the pandemic began. But clearly there was plenty of research going back to roughly 2003, after the "original" SARS virus outbreak created research interest. It'd be more accurate to say "They had several prototypes and prior data from closely related viruses such as SARS or MERS."
The first covid vaccination using the spike protein was patented by Pfizer in US Patent 6372224, which Pfizer applied for on January, 28th, 2000 Yes - 21 years ago.
BigT - I'm with Bootsorourke. EVERY attempt at a coronavirus vaccine in animals showed short duration of protection, if it even gave protection. They had numerous other problems too, such as sometimes causing worsened disease outcomes.
didn't know that second part. thank you. total bummer tho. More animal cruelty
probably seeing the animal "vaccines" lack of effectiveness after a short time
Everyone wanted the trial to be as short as possible to get the product to market (the virus looked a lot more dangerous back then) and this was more or less the acceptable minimum.
Great post as usual. Question about "the immunity was supposed to be sterilizing. it’s not." Do you have a link showing that this was what was said at the beginning? I thought it was, but haven't found any clear "official" statements.
When people ask why I'm not taking these vaccines, one thing I always mention is that "they've been wrong about so much - one reason I believe strongly in phase III trials."
it's linked above.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1376950399232573442?s=20
watch her own manic words.
yiiikes!
rrrrRRRRhhh. (hiss)
Thanks - that's a GREAT clip and just what I needed!
Then July 4, Provincetown Bear Week happened. A community of special interest people, all at one, gets attention.
Try looking for officials saying "preventing transmission" - which I do remember them saying a lot. That's political speak for "sterilizing", since the layperson wouldn't like to hear that word, LOL.
My mistake. I was thinking of whether or not they ever said "you won't get Covid."
Brandon said that!
over and over again.
Moderna: We don't make mistakes, we make choices.
Moderna: We make people die. Especially teenage boys.
Yep.
With my natural immunity, I've been going everywhere trying to get variants. The more I'm exposed, the better off I'll be. But now I'm heading to San Francisco next week where I'll probably get exposed to much worse than covid variants. Extreme liberalism (shudder)
They weaponized the flu.
every few years In Before Times, the "flu" that was dominant in winter was actually a coronavirus variant. only in 2020 was this cause for concern, and remaking ... everything.
And the flu went away; "Miraculously" said the masses! "Must have been the masks!"
I want to just go hide away in some corner of the world; am actively working on it.
My husband and I want to hide away too. I am not sure where in the world would be free from this insanity…or other types of real troubles.
I was hoping to go to Panama, but it looks like they might be going full Nazi on the vaxes too...
That is possible, but a citation would be helpful. I have only a "Wikipedia" knowledge of these matters, but the true influenza is most definitely NOT a coronavirus. Some cold viruses are, but only a tiny fraction of the dozens or hundreds known.
None of this information is unknown to or public health authorities. The fact they don't charge course, or even acknowledge these facts, is proof positive that there's something truly nefarious going on.
"nefarious" - not likely, incompetence #1, stubborn #2 - How can so many eat that much crow?
Exactly how long does the risk from the vax last? Do we know? Does the risk fade with the efficacy or does the risk remain at some steady state forever? Do the boosters compound the risk or does it start anew with each shot? Is it the risk of a car accident on your one trip to Paris or is it the risk of running across the 405 freeway 24/7 for the rest of your life?
The question itself is wonderfully scary.
This is based on nothing but conjecture, but to me it seems likely that risks are mostly cumulative. Now it's true that the body can repair itself but that is not true in all cases. Gato, Berenson perhaps others report that heart and neurological (nerve) disorders seem to be increasing (presumably) driven by the vaxxes. Alas, nerve and heart tissue do not regenerate (as a rule? exceptions?) Maybe the immune system fades with repeated boosts; I already "lost" this argument on another forum, because I could cite no evidence.
I agree with you, and suspect the harms are cumulative, but of course there's no real "evidence" at this point. It should be up to Pharma to prove there are no harms....
The negative effectiveness needs to be explored further. I've begun to think of the mRNA therapies as a kind of "steroid". In the case of human growth hormone (HGH), one course will certainly help you generate muscle growth in the short term, particularly if you're trying to rehab an injury quickly; but repeated abuse has less-the-zero deleterious effects on the body, up to and including Leukemia. I suspect that continued boosting will be deleterious to at least one's immune system, but probably a number of other systems as well. You are, after all, forcing massive numbers of cells in the body to do something they were never intended to do. Like, well, Leukemia...