This is all a scam. A very dangerous scam. Did you know that EV batteries can spontaneously enter what's called "thermal runaway" and catch fire and even blow up, and that there are probably no fire departments that have the capability to put the fire out in a timely manner. Not only should you worry about your neighbor having an EV parked next to your house, but they are also putting these gigantic battery banks in your neighborhood too! Just last week one caught fire in Queensland Australia. They just let it burn (because they couldn't put it out). So environmentally friendly with all those OSHA controlled toxins in them going into the atmosphere. They told people to stay in their houses to avoid breathing the air - like their houses are airtight or something. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
Also environmentally friendly is that they have torn up the Texas Hill Country and west Texas desert to run electric transmission lines from the boondoggle wind and solar farms in the western part of the state to the cities in the eastern part of the state. So environmentally friendly to tear up the environment and have high EMFs radiating on everyone. Did you hear me?! IT'S ALL ENIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY! You will believe it too, or off to the Gulag with you.
I am a career firefighter in a major city. WE HAVE NO WAY TO EXTINGUISH THESE THINGS. Yes, you heard that correctly. Short of dropping them into a swimming pool and contaminating the water with what is left over, the only answer is to let them burn and pray they don’t start exposures on fire. Google “EV fires” and watch. You will be shocked. I’m retiring in a month, I want no part of this disaster.
The Norwegians, who have to carry these fire hazards on ferries, have come up with a way to extinguish them- saline solution at negative 21 degrees (I’m assuming that’s Celsius). Y’all have that handy, don’t you? /s
There are definite issues with EV, solar panel and wind turbine fires. What that shows is there are ZERO tech that is perfectly safe. There is ALWAYS risk-benefit, there are ALWAYS issues and problems to address and that needs to be done in a rational way, which in the end will hinge primarily on the economics.
The key point is economically speaking, batteries do not belong in light vehicle BEVs, or for Utility Grid Storage. Electrification of most Diesel fueled transport with battery tech should be the #1 by far-and-away use of batteries. Forget Solar & Wind storage, that will use far more batteries than BEVs would use. A big waste of a massive amount of batteries. Light vehicles are also a huge waste of batteries, which replaces gasoline, of which there will be big surpluses if we don't replace diesel. Our economy runs on heavy distillates (diesel, jet fuel, kerosene, bunker oil, lubricating oils). If you replace gasoline with electricity you still will need all the petroleum for diesel fuel.
BEVs in heavy diesel applications are 6X more economical. Light vehicles only drive an avg of 30 miles/day, that is a piss poor application for precious batteries. i.e for a Tesla with a 300mile range, that's using 10% of capacity per day. A heavy truck will use 200% of capacity in one day.
The only places you would use heavy fuels would be for jet fuel, rocket fuel, medium distance shipping (long distance can be nuclear powered) and trucking in isolated regions.
And gas vehicles can be directly operated on Methanol, at a much lower cost. Methanol can be made low carbon from biomass. It is a simple distillation process.
Other than methanol, the only viable low carbon replacements for fossil fuel are Nuclear & Hydro. Hydro being severely limited by geography. Fortunately we have enough Nuclear fission fuel, uranium & thorium, on the Earth's land surface to fuel our civilization for 100Myrs. And that's with negligible emissions.
"the only viable low carbon replacements for fossil fuel"
THIS might be the root of all this kerfuffle. Jump to Professor Watt's site, linked in EGM's article, and you'll see that it's not clear that "low carbon" matters at all, if you're concerned about climate change.
Water vapor's the most potent greenhouse gas of them all. Stop undersea volcanoes from blowing every few years and you might have a fix for global warming.
Which still seems to presume concern that the Earth is warming uncontrollably and We Need to Do Something.
I didn't say I was concerned about "climate change". That is just what the politicians claim matters, like it or lump it. I'm just saying IF you do care about the supposed cause being CO2 emissions, then the ONLY viable option is nuclear.
However, the much more important point is that the real problem is the legitimate aspirations of Developing Nations to reach a modern standard of living, with a functioning Industrial Economy, will require a 5X increase in World Primary Energy supply. There is no way fossil is capable of that economically. Or is renewables capable, not even close. Not even fossil + renewables. The only energy source capable of supplying that level of energy, economically, is Nuclear. Just the resources of thorium and uranium on the accessible portion of the Earth's land mass would power that level of energy consumption for >20Myrs. Fusion resources would supply that much energy past when the Sun dies.
Add to that Nuclear releases negligible toxic emissions, far, far less than any other energy source. So, the simple truth is, the energy transition needs to be to Nuclear, nothing else matters. And because of that, the Climate Change Grifters despise nuclear more than even fossil. And go to great lengths to blockade nuclear expansion. With their $trillions in wealth.
Funny thing about looking at the implied or infered temperature and CO2 data over the last few hundred thousand years. Temperature rise consistently preceded CO2 rise and temperatures started going down even though CO2 concetrations were still going up. The mania for CO2 is unsupported.
Just what I said, the PTB are foisting CO2 reduction down our throats in pretty much EVERY country on Earth. Although some appear to be fudging that, like China (more talk than action). At least we can hold them to account on the tech needed to achieve that goal. Wind & solar won't work, they are running a scam. That much we do know.
OK, I see. You're just saying that that's how the sell it to everyone else and that there are many better ways to make energy. And we're gonna need a metric $#!+ ton of it any minute!
Do you realize you're currently likely driving a 4000lb+ bomb at 70mph? There are *magnitudes* more gas/diesel car/truck fires in the US than EV battery fires, even when adjusted for # units on the roads.
That’s not really relevant to this conversation, but thanks for sharing.
Do you realize that those are ordinary fires that can be put out with a fire extinguisher or by the fire department. EV fires cannot be extinguished with water or your fire extinguisher because it’s a chemical reaction that is making its own oxygen. And bonus- the components are highly toxic.
Maybe you should go look into this problem before commenting on the topic further.
It is very relevant to some of the comments in this article. Did you read it?
Have you seen a semi-truck on fire? It does not get put out. It is left to burn (at least the ones I've seen on the highways in the US). Just so you're informed, combustion chemicals remain the same between batteries (no matter the chemistry used) catching fire, or anything else. I'm *very* well versed on these topics and "problems" as I'm an active user, not an idle commentator like some seem to be. There are mitigation strategies for all of these issues. An ICE vehicle on fire expels many highly toxic compounds (its mostly plastic afterall). Electricity kills. In the right context, 9V batteries can kill you and your kids. All this nonsensical safety'ism in the US is out of control. Do you own a solar system, backup your house with batteries, or drive an EV? I'm guessing no.
How many semi trucks have you seen on fire on the highway? They may not have the resources to put it out, but it *can* be put out. They also do not emit cobalt, hydrochloric acid, or other chemicals found specifically in EV batteries.
These EVs can burn for days and then spontaneously re-catch fire weeks later. I hope you don’t live near one of these battery depots when one of these things decides to go up. A two minute google search turned up multiple instances of Tesla MegaPacks going up in flames. Why? Because they can become unstable and suffer thermal runaway. And y’all are so enamored with this technology that you are ignoring a dangerous problem that has killed people and could kill a lot of people if it happens in the wrong place.
I am the last person that will advocate for a law or a rule to fix something- what I’m saying is that we need #1) people to be aware this is a problem- and that’s not happening because those with vested interest don’t want problems focused on while people online are comparing these fires to anything that burns and #2) fire departments need a way to fight these fires that is fast and permanent.
And no I don’t have any large lithium batteries near my house, nor will I until the volunteer fire department here has some way to put them out.
I've seen *several* semis actively burning on NC highways and ultimately melted down almost completely. They *absolutely* are emitting highly toxic chemicals when they're burning. Know what else? They're *absolutely* emitting highly toxic chemicals while they're running, just like your ICE car. Don't believe me? Take a couple puffs from your exhaust pipe next time you're down there and let me know how you feel. I have a Lifepo4 battery powering my house. It is not in my house, instead in a detached metal/concrete garage. Each pack has multiple fire arresters. I don't believe they will ultimately do much in case of a fire. I will detach and roll the fucker onto my gravel driveway to burn off when/if the time comes. Hopefully you're also aware of the risks from the battery in your laptop, smartphone, cordless landline phone, cordless drills and other power tools, etc.
I think you're vastly misjudging the risk profile of EVs/battery packs, and other things you simply take for granted in your life. Your fire department, has no way to put out *most* fires they deal with. For the most part, they simply try to minimize the damage and spread. Thermal runaway is a fact of life with something like 90% of the products/things that make up our current "civilized" life - including the concrete and other materials that make up your house.
I am not at all enamored by this technology, these Lifepo's are nothing more than the latest chemistry of battery, a technology that has been around for well over 140 years. I'm a huge fan of iron-nickel in fact, and if it could be denser than Lifepo, by all means I would use iron-nickel (unfortunately, *all* batteries are a fire risk). You are arguing with a luddite...i raise/grow 95% of my own food, and would live completely detached from electricity if it were not for my wife and kids being addicted to this modern convenience.
I do agree with you, vested interests, of course will downplay risks and dangerous problems. That does not mean the rest of society simply pretends that the risks are not there.
You may find the data contained in this article on vehicle fires useful:
Arm waving arguments are not valid. Show the numbers, that's the ONLY way you can evaluate that problem rationally. I'm not sure myself, your arguments are unconvincing, without numbers you really aren't telling us anything of substance.
What numbers? There are thousands of instances in the last year alone of EV battery packs, from bikes to Tesla MegaPacks, and everything in between, going into thermal runaway. There’s nothing that this needs to be compared to. There are no comparable statistics required here. It’s not like a car fire. It’s not like a wood fire. The fire cannot be put out by the fire department, the fire contains toxic chemicals that other fires do not, that are specific to EV batteries like cobalt and hydrochloric acid, and it really doesn’t matter what the rate is compared to anything else except that it’s happening multiple times a week and it’s bloody dangerous. I’m not sure you comprehend the problem.
I know, imagine! Its like having a gas or wood stove inside the home!!! Soooo scary and risky! :-P Yall are blowing this stuff *way* out of proportion.
I think you're misunderstanding chemical processes, and attributing them incorrectly to certain battery chemistry. You also seemed to miss my point, which was: gas or wood stoves in the home pose a significantly higher fire risk than an EV or (quality) Lifepo battery. Yes, both pose fire risk, but you seem to fixate on one and not the other much more common risk. I've never heard of a properly used and maintained battery "spontaneously" going into "thermal runaway". I have certainly heard of and seen a cheap and mishandled/damaged battery cell within a larger pack catch fire, as well as hundreds of other electronic components of modern devices and appliances.
Huh. There are many reasons why a car would catch on fire when it's in operation so the roadside fire isn't the same risk and I have no easy way to compare fires per capita between each. But it's interesting that that's not more cited.
I do note, however, that a little CTRL+F on "garage" both of your linked articles returns a total of 1 hit - and that is for a tab on the MSN.com page. Did any of these happen in garages? My single line, two-sentence comment specifically addresses the Relative Lack of Risk of Spontaneous Garage Fires via ICE vehicles. Your articles do nothing to refute that.
As further, albeit anecdotal, evidence of the relative safety of ICE things, people frequently store lawn mowers, weed trimmers, etc. that operate on some variation of ICE in their garage. Or shed. I live out in the country and my next door neighbor has a backhoe and a saw mill.
While I'll wager these things might have burst into flame or worse when being operated, you never seem to just catch on fire in garages. Or sheds.
And I don't know anybody with a plug-in hybrid John Deere.
No, but I'm not the one that said EVs are prone to "spontaneous" combustion, just that ICE vehicles catch fire, apparently, every 5 minutes or so in the US. :-D
And they are easily extinguished with water. I’ve been doing it for a living for 27 years. Also, I’ve never seen an fossil fuel automobile explode after catching fire.
Oil and gas fires go out with water because the water absorbs heat really well and deprives the fire of oxygen. In your kitchen, you probably wouldn’t want to do that because it’s going to be a real dangerous mess before it isn’t. Outside on a car- not a problem, since hopefully you’re not standing next to it.
And with an EV battery it’s making its own oxygen which is why they won’t go out. They also do indeed explode. There’s some really wild videos on YouTube. Yes, gasoline cars can explode too, but when they’ve been involved in an accident- but that’s not relevant to the point here. The point is that EVs can *spontaneously* combust and explode when nothing external has happened to them. It’s called thermal runaway.
You seriously have no clue what you’re talking about, and I would urge you to look into this problem. You certainly shouldn’t charge any type of EV inside your house or your garage, especially while you are sleeping, and I hope you don’t find out what can happen the hard way.
EVs cannot spontaneously combust and explode when nothing external has happened to them. There has to be an external force *of some* kind to damage at least one cell in the packs (same for every other battery chemistry, which I notice you keep ignoring). I've been working with electronics and battery controllers for 3 decades. I've been running solar+batteries on my farm for decades. I at least believe I know what I'm talking about, as I'm hands on with this technology for this long. How about you? Are you just going off youtube videos and headlines in clickbait articles perhaps?
Once again, thermal runaway is not a spontaneous process, or anything unique to batteries.
You respond to a sensible warning with nonsense about my neighbors EVs. You cite an event in Australia, with no supporting context. Find me an example of a Tesla battery spontaneously exploding into fire. This is the kind of fear mongering the article decries.
Data supports that for one Tesla car fire, about 50,000 gas and diesel fires occur. From the data Tesla provides for 2012 to 2020, one Tesla fire occurred for every 205 million miles. The chances of a Tesla battery catching on fire or a Tesla car in general catching fire are very low.
"Data supports ..." It's just another statement with zero context, from an EV Scheduling app provider (no bias, of course.) It does not stand on its own. You asked for an example of a Tesla fire and you got precisely that in response.
The "study" in your link *specifically* states that at the time of the study, data collection systems were insufficient to even determine the frequency of EV fires. And the study's data only went up to 2018 (How many EVs were on the road in 2018 compared to now?)
Lest you think my response here is from the point of view of "alignment" against EVs or Musk, or whatever, I assure you that I most likely will own an EV when/if I feel it is the right time and situation for me.
Unfortunately, there are no data gathered on *where* ICE cars are when they catch fire (remember, an ICE car sets on fire once every 5 minutes in the US). So this whole rabbit hole is histrionics and nonsense.
so, we're resorting to insult? This is a good piece with context. However, it is mostly a cautionary tale about cars and floods. You seem to align with those who, in any case, are opposed to EVs. This is pure silliness. Is it because you, like so many, are trying to bring down "he who must be crushed" Elon Musk?
I am opposed to the MANDATES for EVs. I am opposed to mandates, period. I personally don't want an EV. I have no objection to anyone who wants an EV, purchasing one, but I object to subsidizing that purchase with my tax dollars. I am a great admirer of Elon Musk. And I see no one insulting you.
You like EVs? But all the EVs you like - but not with my money helping you.
And you don't buy a Tesla because it's better for Mother Gaia. It's not, on net, so please don't be the sort of person who lectures me about how I don't love Nature.
To be clear, I am not against this technology in principle, minus all the government subsidies. I would like some safeguards because it’s extremely toxic and extremely dangerous. And that danger is downplayed by morons who have zero understanding of how these batteries work and what can go wrong with them. These fires are spontaneous- it’s called thermal runaway. Look it up.
The Norwegians have come up with a way to put these fires out- saline at negative 21 degrees- what fire department has that? None of them. There are large facilities near people’s homes that have these batteries- I hope one doesn’t go sideways near YOUR house.
I certainly agree that the government should not be involved in this. As usual, government meddling is counterproductive. this is a new industry and should be allowed to grow in response to demand, which will materialize as the technology continues to evolve.
"and should be allowed to grow in response to demand"
And, if the demand isn't sufficient to entice people to buy them at the price they actually cost with No Special Incentives because, if they're really "better" - and note the many axes on which we measure a car's value - then they don't need $ from Uncle BigGov.
And while I'm not anti-EV, I'll go on record saying EVs are a loooooong way out from being the most common, most sensible, most affordable form of personal transport and, if not for Massive Overinvestment Under the Guise of Virtue, the technology will evolve very slowly until free market-priced Fossil Fuels become scarce enough for it to make sense to flip your EV-to-ICE ratio.
It sounds like you are unaware that the gasoline in the US is *highly* subsidized throughout its lifecycle. If it wasn't, it would cost what it usually does in my home country, somewhere between $9 and $12 per gallon right now (compressed air cars are still popular here - you can call them the original electric vehicle). I completely agree though, neither EVs nor gasoline should be subsidized with my tax dollars.
That may be. However there are thousands of these car and larger batteries that can and do spontaneously burn, and then can’t be easily put out. These are a large and very real problem. Even the bikes are a problem. Four people died in NYC when some bikes caught fire.
The above are all Tesla megapacks, not even including the one in Queensland last week. They have built dozens of these recently in my state. What safeguards are there? What tools do the fire departments have to fight a fire there? None. Nada. “No problem to see here, so if you ask questions about it you hate the environment and Elon too.” That’s the response we are getting from asking these questions.
Once again, you need to understand that most firefighters would treat any battery fire no matter the chemistry, just like they would a house fire: let it burn, don't try to put it out.
For those of you who are car fans and would enjoy a bloke with extremely snarky and well informed commentary on EVs, I suggest checking out this dude: https://youtu.be/7d1i0-3AdtQ?si=THUXRG62Sj5qJeps
Social and Behavioral Sciences (SBS) has been The Science (TM) of the pandemic: masking, jabbing, lockdowns, vax passports, nudging, manipulation, coercion. In this application of SBS the Enterprise:
”includes the network of government agencies, private-sector companies, and academic institutions that provide weather services to the nation."
The media is a big, big part of it, lots of local TV station weather departments (all owned by a handful of national and multinational corporations.) That were also instrumental in the pandemic fear porn pushing lockdowns, mask mandates, jab mandates, etc.
You'll even find infamous propaganda specialist Kate Starbird listed in it as a contributor. It further details how they use the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to advance climate fear porn propaganda with health regulatory powers under the auspices of public health. As well as a collection naming of all of the centers of power that are coordinating and collaborating with this massive psychological mind-farkery operation. It's a big, big, big man-caused climate change "enterprise."
Here's the contents:
Front Matter (You've gotta check out the names of some of these Boards and Committees that contributed!)
Summary
Ch 1 Introduction
Ch 2 The Motivation for Integrating Social and Behavioral Sciences Within the Weather Enterprise
Ch 3 Assessing the Current State of Social and Behavioral Sciences Within the Weather Enterprise
Ch 4 Social and Behavioral Sciences for Road Weather Concerns
Ch 5 Research Needs for Improving the Nation’s Weather Readiness and Advancing Fundamental Social and Behavioral Science Knowledge
Ch 6 A Framework to Sustainably Support and Effectively Use Social and Behavioral Science Research in the Weather Enterprise
Ch 7 Summary of Key Findings and Recommendations
Appendix A Examples of Funding for Social and Behavioral Science Activities by NOAA, NSF, DHS1
Appendix B Lessons from SBS Integration into the “Public Health Enterprise”
Appendix C People Who Provided Input to the Committee
Appendix D Committee Biosketches
I've seen no better single resource to understanding their operational climate con job plan and strategies in one place than this book. For those who wish to do a very deep dive. A 182-page exercise describing the imposition of stupidity masquerading as intelligence and enlightened thought on an unwitting nation and world. The enterprise of weather.
A book for curious felines to explore. And canids.
How we came to two generations that take climate change as unquestionable gospel.
I wonder who would be a bigger zealot in an imaginary crisis:
Someone who thinks you killed grandma or someone who thinks you're killing mother earth?
The level of cruelty that can be justified when people believe in a "moral" crusade is boundless because the beast inside is no longer burdened with the boundaries of empathy.
There is nothing so dangerous as a person or group who believe the ultimate testament of their fidelity to a righteous cause requires acts of cruelty to demonstrate their purity.
So in essence, these studies where scientists have to go "tepid" are pretty much worthless or could even cause harm. The people doing the censoring are never the good guys. History shows that 100% of the time.
"These are the voyages of the starship racket as we explore the uncharted universe of grifters, confidence men, and clingons (clingers on) and star wars bars.
When you pull back the curtain and discover that all their power is just levers, pulleys and buttons in the hands of pathetic little men and women it becomes less disturbing. Their power wilts in full view, open sunlight. All we have to do is be fearless Toto's sniffing around and pulling back curtains.
These people are weak and not very intelligent. Stupid, weak people who think they're smart and strong can do a lot of harm before they get revealed. Let's all endeavor to 'pants' them. The book unbuckles them, all we have to do reach out and yank their pants down and we can all point and laugh at how small they really are.
im inclined to agree with you except for the fact that these creepy ghouls also control the algorithms that own and operate just about every Western brain.
there may be a few of us out here who know not to fall for all the various spurious narratives of doom, but most people (certainly most people i know) are more than happy to be hypnotized by our reigning algorithms (esp as long as the shows and porn keep streaming and food is plentiful), and just like in Plato's cave, they don't even know they're hypnotized and would deny it vehemently.
Last I checked, the 60 year "war on poverty" has had zero effect on stemming the poverty rates in the United States, but it has created a behemoth taxing and regulatory government apparatus. The "green agenda" is merely a page out of that same "Communist Manifesto" handbook. The grift isn't new, it simply took on a new shade of color. Green is far more fitting a camouflage for this movement, as red always sticks out like a sore thumb.
I totally get that this whole enterprise is built on lies, fraud and deceit. That it is a globally synchronized effort to…what?
Bankrupt the entire world, but not until after you have starved, frozen or boiled, and impoverished the entire planet in the effort?
I hear that the WEF, extremely upset with the peasants not wholly buying into the vaccine, and now having the audacity to pushback against their climate terrorism, are looking into f’n with the world’s water supplies. “That’ll get them plenty scared and compliant!” they chortle.
It didn't seem too cartoonish when the world went into lockdown uniformly.
That wasn't a case of rule by rube imo.
They are dangerous because they have consolidated legions of technocrats to give the appearance of consensus.
Consensus can be a vehicle for conquest and conciliation of the "crowd". A crowd that's conditioned to conformity is easy to control. They won't even recognize they've been conquered when they clamp their own chains.
Who was in control during the plandemic?
A cabal of consensus.
How many people noticed that? Very few, because the appearance of consensus blinded the crowd to the consequences of forfeiting the need to confer.
Haha the first time I heard the word “malinformation ” it brought up images of childhood cartoons and the Legion of Doom. A caped superhero who roams the internet, slaying “untruths” with fixed algorithms warning labels
The more I see and learn, the more this appears to be a concerted push by a cabal of very wealthy globalist fascists, hoping to create a New World Order that will actually be a return to feudalism, with them as the New Aristocracy. Clearly, very complex, but at it's heart, this is what's driving it.
yes, after the Peasants' Rebellions of 2016 the global corporate state and its billionaire oligarch class have taken off the gloves and aint fuckin around anymore...
They are sick of us smelly proles and our backwards opinions and they will control the planet, its governments, its "cognitive infrastructure" and all its resources—what's the point of having all the money and power if you have to share it or risk losing it?
My first encounter with the wind turbine grifters was when a friend whose tourism business was crushed by lockdowns took work with a South African outfit. As a professional mountaineer he was forced to undergo the most basic climbing training because... money. And every pettyfogging stupid 'training' thereafter. And the international overlords had to take their cut or they wouldn't grant qualification. His first job was on a windfarm in the semi desert. Like a nightmare novel of incomptence and greed. Lying idle for days, no proper water supply and when finally working, crap food of an amount that might have kept a 7 year old alive. Management completely isolated from the toilers and as arrogant as they could have been. It was like a modern 'green' version of the Dickensian workhouse. The stop oil girlies and boys would not have lasted a day in that hell.
The opposite in the US and Europe no doubt, lots of idle time and overpayment. A third offline at any given time. External infrastructure paid for by taxpayers and not accounted for in the costs.
Plus just think about the cognitive dissonance required to both want solar power to be ubiquitous while also seeking novel cloud-seeding media to screen off the sun.
It's like propping up the Tobacco Industry in North Carolina and at the same time sending them $Millions in "Don't Smoke" PSA material.
I encourage folks to read "The Unpopular Truth About Electricity and The Future of Energy" by Dr. Lars Schernikau. Went to a conference where he laid waste to the alt energy movement. The physics behind these forms of energy just aren't viable on a basis of eROI (energy return on energy invested).
Fossil fuels are here to stay until we can find a way to efficiently and effectively proliferate a safer version of nuclear power...that day may already be here...https://x-energy.com/reactors/xe-100
Or we can just do the sensible thing and go back to not using electricity. Wood fire f the win. Some of us grew up just like this, and its honestly a great and healthy way to live. No distractions, no bullshit screens.
"Or we can just do the sensible thing and go back to not using electricity."
This is not remotely "the sensible thing" and I just realized why my other conversation with you went off the rails.
"Some of us grew up just like this"
If you like your rugged way of life you can keep your rugged way of life. Just recognize that "[W]ood fire ...[i]s honestly a great and healthy way to live." is just not at a true statement.
About 22000 years of human history says otherwise.
My family and I have burned coal, wood, peat, dung, etc. for well over 1200 years that we know of. My grandma died at 99, was built like a linebacker as a result of our way of life, and likely could beat the living fuck out of your grandma. :-P
Don't let me persuade you though. Enjoy your convenience and consequences.
Many are puzzled and continue to ask "...but why would they do this??"
If you assume it's a death cult, then it all makes sense. The hate themselves and project it onto humanity.
The most amazing thing is what obvious horseshit it is. Everything - ALL Life on Earth relies either directly or indirectly on plants. So, which is best for plants - higher or lower CO2?
We're currently at ~415 PPM (as an average, which itself is an absolutely idiotic measure of anything). People engaged in serious growing in greenhouses try to jack CO2 levels up to anywhere from 800-1200 PPM because PLANTS FUCKING LOVE CO2 and grow like crazy in higher CO2 levels. Below 150 PPM is where plants die off and that is where global extinctions happen. Check the CO2 levels in the fossil records against ice ages.
These people aren't just fuckheads; they're fuckheads intent on destroying human civilization because none of them cares one whit for any of it. It's all about the grift and power over others. Dumb and Evil don't have an excluded middle; most frequently, in fact, those traits travel in tandem. Unfortunately, they also tend to have a third companion, smugness.
In the UK in the last two years when gas prices shot up, my "100% renewable electricity" bills shot up even more. How can this happen? They were paying gas prices to renewable suppliers who weren't facing increased fuel costs. er... so when were renewables ever going to reduce prices ? something is rotten.
Not sure what I thought the truth was - maybe that I was too thick to understand the energy market mechanism. Whatever the mechanism is, it ain’t working to bring prices down, renewable generators are gaming the system, and no-one in the media asks the obvious questions. And the little guys pay for it.
We are going to achieve Net Zero alright. Unfortunately, it's going to be Net Zero energy available.
If the high priests of the Church of Climate, and the Dyspeptic Saint Greta, were serious at all about their fear of the dreaded Carbon, they would be pushing Nuclear power, which is about as Net Zero as you can get. But they are fighting against nuclear just as hard as they are fighting for solar/wind. As the author of this article so neatly puts, they don't want a solution to their imaginary problem because it's about the money. There are a very few well connected people who have managed to position themselves at the outflow end of an extremely large pipeline that is gushing the money that the government is stealing from us taxpayers. They are getting stinking rich from solar and wind and they absolutely don't give the first frogs fart about climate or carbon or any of the rest of it. This has never been about climate and certainly not about me or you. This is purely about money, and about how much of it they can put in offshore banks before we all wake up and put a stop to it. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen tho...
Exactly. Cui bono? It’s a massive fabrication to con you. Control and stealing your money is what the Left is about. Don’t behave well, then we will turn off your electric car or your electronic money. You’ll own nothing and we will be happy - because we own it. See how that works?
Science can't even control or seriously influence local weather. Yet politicians want us to believe they can control the real weather makers such as the Gulf Stream and El Nino and La Nina.
When people's ideas of science come from Hollywood actors and DC politicians, you KNOW we're screwed.
There are those who do believe that they can, and do, manipulate the weather. LBJ famously said “he who controls the weather, controls the world”, in the mid 60s. In fact, manipulation of the climate (including earthquakes and other phenomena) has been a big player in the climate change propaganda. Witness the fires in Paradise CA and Lahaina, which have all the earmarks of weather weaponry by directed energy weapons (DEW). Yet the Governor of HI says it’s due climate change, and thus they are appropriating private property to create 15 minute city infrastructure.
Elana Freeland’s trio of geoengineering books lay it out (along with many other aspects of the technologies) in great detail. She had a long list of weather catastrophes since the 60s that are highly suspicious, yet the narrative is that all of this is caused by climate change.
It is true that the green solutions suck and as such we could say they don’t what they are doing. That’s true for the useful idiots like Greta Thunburg. For the owners this is evil genius to get away with with such a transparent scam, like they did with Covid, by controlling the nodes of influence. As gato points out.
The work of Rosa Korie is superb. She has YouTube videos of presentations to legislators from 11 years ago laying it all out. Her book is “Behind the Green Mask”.
I taught Earth Science, including climate change, many years ago. I was around for Al Gore's "The Ice Age Cometh", back in the 1970s. The mythology has only gotten worse since then.
I recommend Steeve Koonin's book, "Unsettled" for an intelligent look at the issues by an actual scientist. He points out the difference between climate change and weather. There is no such thing as weather events caused by climate change. People should get a clue about the use of the word "change." Change says that something is different than it used to be. You can't talk about a moment in time, and still be talking about change. A hurricane, a flood, a forest fire, a draught are all moments in time. They are weather events, not climate events.
But is it getting worse? Is WHAT getting worse? People only look at particular undesirable weather events as "proof" of the coming end of the world. Well, what about GOOD weather? Can anybody name how much more good weather and how much more habitable land we have as a result of climate change? Nobody considers the upside of climate change. Why not?
At any rate, there isn't a climatologist out there who will say that we can control climates. We are being played. Big time. It just might ruin us.
Yes! Rosa Koire. I read her book and then gave it to my cousin, who lives in Santa Rosa. She knew things were squirrely there, but that book really opened her eyes to what was--and is--going on. So sad that Rosa died. She was a magnificent fighter.
This is all a scam. A very dangerous scam. Did you know that EV batteries can spontaneously enter what's called "thermal runaway" and catch fire and even blow up, and that there are probably no fire departments that have the capability to put the fire out in a timely manner. Not only should you worry about your neighbor having an EV parked next to your house, but they are also putting these gigantic battery banks in your neighborhood too! Just last week one caught fire in Queensland Australia. They just let it burn (because they couldn't put it out). So environmentally friendly with all those OSHA controlled toxins in them going into the atmosphere. They told people to stay in their houses to avoid breathing the air - like their houses are airtight or something. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
Also environmentally friendly is that they have torn up the Texas Hill Country and west Texas desert to run electric transmission lines from the boondoggle wind and solar farms in the western part of the state to the cities in the eastern part of the state. So environmentally friendly to tear up the environment and have high EMFs radiating on everyone. Did you hear me?! IT'S ALL ENIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY! You will believe it too, or off to the Gulag with you.
I am a career firefighter in a major city. WE HAVE NO WAY TO EXTINGUISH THESE THINGS. Yes, you heard that correctly. Short of dropping them into a swimming pool and contaminating the water with what is left over, the only answer is to let them burn and pray they don’t start exposures on fire. Google “EV fires” and watch. You will be shocked. I’m retiring in a month, I want no part of this disaster.
The Norwegians, who have to carry these fire hazards on ferries, have come up with a way to extinguish them- saline solution at negative 21 degrees (I’m assuming that’s Celsius). Y’all have that handy, don’t you? /s
There are definite issues with EV, solar panel and wind turbine fires. What that shows is there are ZERO tech that is perfectly safe. There is ALWAYS risk-benefit, there are ALWAYS issues and problems to address and that needs to be done in a rational way, which in the end will hinge primarily on the economics.
The key point is economically speaking, batteries do not belong in light vehicle BEVs, or for Utility Grid Storage. Electrification of most Diesel fueled transport with battery tech should be the #1 by far-and-away use of batteries. Forget Solar & Wind storage, that will use far more batteries than BEVs would use. A big waste of a massive amount of batteries. Light vehicles are also a huge waste of batteries, which replaces gasoline, of which there will be big surpluses if we don't replace diesel. Our economy runs on heavy distillates (diesel, jet fuel, kerosene, bunker oil, lubricating oils). If you replace gasoline with electricity you still will need all the petroleum for diesel fuel.
BEVs in heavy diesel applications are 6X more economical. Light vehicles only drive an avg of 30 miles/day, that is a piss poor application for precious batteries. i.e for a Tesla with a 300mile range, that's using 10% of capacity per day. A heavy truck will use 200% of capacity in one day.
The only places you would use heavy fuels would be for jet fuel, rocket fuel, medium distance shipping (long distance can be nuclear powered) and trucking in isolated regions.
And gas vehicles can be directly operated on Methanol, at a much lower cost. Methanol can be made low carbon from biomass. It is a simple distillation process.
Other than methanol, the only viable low carbon replacements for fossil fuel are Nuclear & Hydro. Hydro being severely limited by geography. Fortunately we have enough Nuclear fission fuel, uranium & thorium, on the Earth's land surface to fuel our civilization for 100Myrs. And that's with negligible emissions.
"the only viable low carbon replacements for fossil fuel"
THIS might be the root of all this kerfuffle. Jump to Professor Watt's site, linked in EGM's article, and you'll see that it's not clear that "low carbon" matters at all, if you're concerned about climate change.
Water vapor's the most potent greenhouse gas of them all. Stop undersea volcanoes from blowing every few years and you might have a fix for global warming.
Which still seems to presume concern that the Earth is warming uncontrollably and We Need to Do Something.
I didn't say I was concerned about "climate change". That is just what the politicians claim matters, like it or lump it. I'm just saying IF you do care about the supposed cause being CO2 emissions, then the ONLY viable option is nuclear.
However, the much more important point is that the real problem is the legitimate aspirations of Developing Nations to reach a modern standard of living, with a functioning Industrial Economy, will require a 5X increase in World Primary Energy supply. There is no way fossil is capable of that economically. Or is renewables capable, not even close. Not even fossil + renewables. The only energy source capable of supplying that level of energy, economically, is Nuclear. Just the resources of thorium and uranium on the accessible portion of the Earth's land mass would power that level of energy consumption for >20Myrs. Fusion resources would supply that much energy past when the Sun dies.
Add to that Nuclear releases negligible toxic emissions, far, far less than any other energy source. So, the simple truth is, the energy transition needs to be to Nuclear, nothing else matters. And because of that, the Climate Change Grifters despise nuclear more than even fossil. And go to great lengths to blockade nuclear expansion. With their $trillions in wealth.
But I strongly agree that we should be putting all our $Energy into nuclear.
Although, I think the best form of energy would enable us to decouple from the grid. If nuclear gets good, we'll all have our own Mr. Fusions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptlhgFaB89Y
We should have standardized small Thorium reactors right now.
And that's what Our Betters would do if they were actually interested in our well being.
Draw you own conclusions.
If you're not concerned about climate change then what is your driver for reducing CO2 emissions?
Funny thing about looking at the implied or infered temperature and CO2 data over the last few hundred thousand years. Temperature rise consistently preceded CO2 rise and temperatures started going down even though CO2 concetrations were still going up. The mania for CO2 is unsupported.
Yup.
Just what I said, the PTB are foisting CO2 reduction down our throats in pretty much EVERY country on Earth. Although some appear to be fudging that, like China (more talk than action). At least we can hold them to account on the tech needed to achieve that goal. Wind & solar won't work, they are running a scam. That much we do know.
OK, I see. You're just saying that that's how the sell it to everyone else and that there are many better ways to make energy. And we're gonna need a metric $#!+ ton of it any minute!
I saw in the news yesterday a house burned down from the EV in the garage, this was in my childhood home town.
We're living in an "Idiocracy."
Do you realize you're currently likely driving a 4000lb+ bomb at 70mph? There are *magnitudes* more gas/diesel car/truck fires in the US than EV battery fires, even when adjusted for # units on the roads.
That’s not really relevant to this conversation, but thanks for sharing.
Do you realize that those are ordinary fires that can be put out with a fire extinguisher or by the fire department. EV fires cannot be extinguished with water or your fire extinguisher because it’s a chemical reaction that is making its own oxygen. And bonus- the components are highly toxic.
Maybe you should go look into this problem before commenting on the topic further.
It is very relevant to some of the comments in this article. Did you read it?
Have you seen a semi-truck on fire? It does not get put out. It is left to burn (at least the ones I've seen on the highways in the US). Just so you're informed, combustion chemicals remain the same between batteries (no matter the chemistry used) catching fire, or anything else. I'm *very* well versed on these topics and "problems" as I'm an active user, not an idle commentator like some seem to be. There are mitigation strategies for all of these issues. An ICE vehicle on fire expels many highly toxic compounds (its mostly plastic afterall). Electricity kills. In the right context, 9V batteries can kill you and your kids. All this nonsensical safety'ism in the US is out of control. Do you own a solar system, backup your house with batteries, or drive an EV? I'm guessing no.
How many semi trucks have you seen on fire on the highway? They may not have the resources to put it out, but it *can* be put out. They also do not emit cobalt, hydrochloric acid, or other chemicals found specifically in EV batteries.
These EVs can burn for days and then spontaneously re-catch fire weeks later. I hope you don’t live near one of these battery depots when one of these things decides to go up. A two minute google search turned up multiple instances of Tesla MegaPacks going up in flames. Why? Because they can become unstable and suffer thermal runaway. And y’all are so enamored with this technology that you are ignoring a dangerous problem that has killed people and could kill a lot of people if it happens in the wrong place.
I am the last person that will advocate for a law or a rule to fix something- what I’m saying is that we need #1) people to be aware this is a problem- and that’s not happening because those with vested interest don’t want problems focused on while people online are comparing these fires to anything that burns and #2) fire departments need a way to fight these fires that is fast and permanent.
And no I don’t have any large lithium batteries near my house, nor will I until the volunteer fire department here has some way to put them out.
I've seen *several* semis actively burning on NC highways and ultimately melted down almost completely. They *absolutely* are emitting highly toxic chemicals when they're burning. Know what else? They're *absolutely* emitting highly toxic chemicals while they're running, just like your ICE car. Don't believe me? Take a couple puffs from your exhaust pipe next time you're down there and let me know how you feel. I have a Lifepo4 battery powering my house. It is not in my house, instead in a detached metal/concrete garage. Each pack has multiple fire arresters. I don't believe they will ultimately do much in case of a fire. I will detach and roll the fucker onto my gravel driveway to burn off when/if the time comes. Hopefully you're also aware of the risks from the battery in your laptop, smartphone, cordless landline phone, cordless drills and other power tools, etc.
I think you're vastly misjudging the risk profile of EVs/battery packs, and other things you simply take for granted in your life. Your fire department, has no way to put out *most* fires they deal with. For the most part, they simply try to minimize the damage and spread. Thermal runaway is a fact of life with something like 90% of the products/things that make up our current "civilized" life - including the concrete and other materials that make up your house.
I am not at all enamored by this technology, these Lifepo's are nothing more than the latest chemistry of battery, a technology that has been around for well over 140 years. I'm a huge fan of iron-nickel in fact, and if it could be denser than Lifepo, by all means I would use iron-nickel (unfortunately, *all* batteries are a fire risk). You are arguing with a luddite...i raise/grow 95% of my own food, and would live completely detached from electricity if it were not for my wife and kids being addicted to this modern convenience.
I do agree with you, vested interests, of course will downplay risks and dangerous problems. That does not mean the rest of society simply pretends that the risks are not there.
You may find the data contained in this article on vehicle fires useful:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires
Arm waving arguments are not valid. Show the numbers, that's the ONLY way you can evaluate that problem rationally. I'm not sure myself, your arguments are unconvincing, without numbers you really aren't telling us anything of substance.
What numbers? There are thousands of instances in the last year alone of EV battery packs, from bikes to Tesla MegaPacks, and everything in between, going into thermal runaway. There’s nothing that this needs to be compared to. There are no comparable statistics required here. It’s not like a car fire. It’s not like a wood fire. The fire cannot be put out by the fire department, the fire contains toxic chemicals that other fires do not, that are specific to EV batteries like cobalt and hydrochloric acid, and it really doesn’t matter what the rate is compared to anything else except that it’s happening multiple times a week and it’s bloody dangerous. I’m not sure you comprehend the problem.
EVs can catch fire in the driveway when they aren't even turned on, and the family is asleep. A lot of people live in connected houses.
I know, imagine! Its like having a gas or wood stove inside the home!!! Soooo scary and risky! :-P Yall are blowing this stuff *way* out of proportion.
A gas or wood stove doesn’t spontaneously go into thermal runaway and produce its own oxygen. But okay.
I think you're misunderstanding chemical processes, and attributing them incorrectly to certain battery chemistry. You also seemed to miss my point, which was: gas or wood stoves in the home pose a significantly higher fire risk than an EV or (quality) Lifepo battery. Yes, both pose fire risk, but you seem to fixate on one and not the other much more common risk. I've never heard of a properly used and maintained battery "spontaneously" going into "thermal runaway". I have certainly heard of and seen a cheap and mishandled/damaged battery cell within a larger pack catch fire, as well as hundreds of other electronic components of modern devices and appliances.
Perhaps. But ICE cars don't tend to spontaneously combust in our garages.
Uhhh, well nevermind, ICE vehicles absolutely DO catch fire in our garages, outside on the road, and wherever:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/ford-recalls-full-sized-pickup-trucks-due-to-engine-fire-risk/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/hyundai-and-kia-recall-nearly-34-million-vehicles-due-to-fire-risk-and-urge-owners-to-park-outdoors/ar-AA1hkZhY#image=1
Huh. There are many reasons why a car would catch on fire when it's in operation so the roadside fire isn't the same risk and I have no easy way to compare fires per capita between each. But it's interesting that that's not more cited.
I do note, however, that a little CTRL+F on "garage" both of your linked articles returns a total of 1 hit - and that is for a tab on the MSN.com page. Did any of these happen in garages? My single line, two-sentence comment specifically addresses the Relative Lack of Risk of Spontaneous Garage Fires via ICE vehicles. Your articles do nothing to refute that.
As further, albeit anecdotal, evidence of the relative safety of ICE things, people frequently store lawn mowers, weed trimmers, etc. that operate on some variation of ICE in their garage. Or shed. I live out in the country and my next door neighbor has a backhoe and a saw mill.
While I'll wager these things might have burst into flame or worse when being operated, you never seem to just catch on fire in garages. Or sheds.
And I don't know anybody with a plug-in hybrid John Deere.
Are you serious? Don't search, instead just read the Hyundai recall articles.
In case you're too busy - Hyundai is *literally* telling their customers to "not park in the garage", and instead to "park outside".
No? How do you know this?
I don't "know" it but your cites conspicuously do not refute the assertion.
Just cars sitting idle in enclosed spaces. Can you demonstrate that ICE vehicles are so prone?
No, but I'm not the one that said EVs are prone to "spontaneous" combustion, just that ICE vehicles catch fire, apparently, every 5 minutes or so in the US. :-D
_I_ am saying that. I own it.
I claim that EVs have been blown to catch on fire for no known reason when they're not operating, while in garages.
I am saying it.
And they are easily extinguished with water. I’ve been doing it for a living for 27 years. Also, I’ve never seen an fossil fuel automobile explode after catching fire.
You've been a fire fighter for 27 years and you've been putting out oil and gasoline fires with water?! :-O Amazing!
Just cause you ain't seen an ICE car explode, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Here's 5 minutes of searching (they appear like explosions to me):
Here's an intense explosion right on side of the highway (1992 Supra).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mj3tHG-rWA
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/i1_YTyrDqdE
There you go buddy! Now you've seen everything!
https://whnt.com/news/huntsville/huntsville-fire-rescue-responds-to-garage-explosion/
Here's a more famous one for ya:
https://nypost.com/2022/11/15/jay-leno-suffered-third-degree-burns-in-car-fire/
Oil and gas fires go out with water because the water absorbs heat really well and deprives the fire of oxygen. In your kitchen, you probably wouldn’t want to do that because it’s going to be a real dangerous mess before it isn’t. Outside on a car- not a problem, since hopefully you’re not standing next to it.
And with an EV battery it’s making its own oxygen which is why they won’t go out. They also do indeed explode. There’s some really wild videos on YouTube. Yes, gasoline cars can explode too, but when they’ve been involved in an accident- but that’s not relevant to the point here. The point is that EVs can *spontaneously* combust and explode when nothing external has happened to them. It’s called thermal runaway.
You seriously have no clue what you’re talking about, and I would urge you to look into this problem. You certainly shouldn’t charge any type of EV inside your house or your garage, especially while you are sleeping, and I hope you don’t find out what can happen the hard way.
EVs cannot spontaneously combust and explode when nothing external has happened to them. There has to be an external force *of some* kind to damage at least one cell in the packs (same for every other battery chemistry, which I notice you keep ignoring). I've been working with electronics and battery controllers for 3 decades. I've been running solar+batteries on my farm for decades. I at least believe I know what I'm talking about, as I'm hands on with this technology for this long. How about you? Are you just going off youtube videos and headlines in clickbait articles perhaps?
Once again, thermal runaway is not a spontaneous process, or anything unique to batteries.
By that logic, I've also never seen an EV "explode after catching fire".
You respond to a sensible warning with nonsense about my neighbors EVs. You cite an event in Australia, with no supporting context. Find me an example of a Tesla battery spontaneously exploding into fire. This is the kind of fear mongering the article decries.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/01/31/tesla-car-battery-bursts-into-flames-california/11153031002/
again - minimal context. Here's a deeper look:https://optiwatt.com/blog/what-to-do-if-a-tesla-catches-fire#:~:text=Data%20supports%20that%20for%20one,catching%20fire%20are%20very%20low.
Pertinent quote from this article:
Data supports that for one Tesla car fire, about 50,000 gas and diesel fires occur. From the data Tesla provides for 2012 to 2020, one Tesla fire occurred for every 205 million miles. The chances of a Tesla battery catching on fire or a Tesla car in general catching fire are very low.
"Data supports ..." It's just another statement with zero context, from an EV Scheduling app provider (no bias, of course.) It does not stand on its own. You asked for an example of a Tesla fire and you got precisely that in response.
The "study" in your link *specifically* states that at the time of the study, data collection systems were insufficient to even determine the frequency of EV fires. And the study's data only went up to 2018 (How many EVs were on the road in 2018 compared to now?)
Lest you think my response here is from the point of view of "alignment" against EVs or Musk, or whatever, I assure you that I most likely will own an EV when/if I feel it is the right time and situation for me.
Unfortunately, there are no data gathered on *where* ICE cars are when they catch fire (remember, an ICE car sets on fire once every 5 minutes in the US). So this whole rabbit hole is histrionics and nonsense.
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/electric-vehicles-are-exploding-from-water-damage-after-hurricane-ian
so, we're resorting to insult? This is a good piece with context. However, it is mostly a cautionary tale about cars and floods. You seem to align with those who, in any case, are opposed to EVs. This is pure silliness. Is it because you, like so many, are trying to bring down "he who must be crushed" Elon Musk?
I am opposed to the MANDATES for EVs. I am opposed to mandates, period. I personally don't want an EV. I have no objection to anyone who wants an EV, purchasing one, but I object to subsidizing that purchase with my tax dollars. I am a great admirer of Elon Musk. And I see no one insulting you.
THIS.
You like EVs? But all the EVs you like - but not with my money helping you.
And you don't buy a Tesla because it's better for Mother Gaia. It's not, on net, so please don't be the sort of person who lectures me about how I don't love Nature.
Apologies - it was "Suzie" who hurled the snark
Apology accepted. My point is don't play "poor me" when attacked. Rise above it. Best to you.
I agree that government should NOT be involved. Was it you who suggested I learn how to Google?
Nobody cares about Elon Musk.
well, that's not true.
I understand it's hard to accept, Elon.
Do you know how to Google??
To be clear, I am not against this technology in principle, minus all the government subsidies. I would like some safeguards because it’s extremely toxic and extremely dangerous. And that danger is downplayed by morons who have zero understanding of how these batteries work and what can go wrong with them. These fires are spontaneous- it’s called thermal runaway. Look it up.
The Norwegians have come up with a way to put these fires out- saline at negative 21 degrees- what fire department has that? None of them. There are large facilities near people’s homes that have these batteries- I hope one doesn’t go sideways near YOUR house.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cargo-ship-fire-netherlands-ev-electric-vehicle-battery-north-sea-freemantle-highway/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-killed-fire-started-new-york-city-e-bike-shop-rcna90141
I certainly agree that the government should not be involved in this. As usual, government meddling is counterproductive. this is a new industry and should be allowed to grow in response to demand, which will materialize as the technology continues to evolve.
"and should be allowed to grow in response to demand"
And, if the demand isn't sufficient to entice people to buy them at the price they actually cost with No Special Incentives because, if they're really "better" - and note the many axes on which we measure a car's value - then they don't need $ from Uncle BigGov.
And while I'm not anti-EV, I'll go on record saying EVs are a loooooong way out from being the most common, most sensible, most affordable form of personal transport and, if not for Massive Overinvestment Under the Guise of Virtue, the technology will evolve very slowly until free market-priced Fossil Fuels become scarce enough for it to make sense to flip your EV-to-ICE ratio.
Peak Oil, we ain't.
It sounds like you are unaware that the gasoline in the US is *highly* subsidized throughout its lifecycle. If it wasn't, it would cost what it usually does in my home country, somewhere between $9 and $12 per gallon right now (compressed air cars are still popular here - you can call them the original electric vehicle). I completely agree though, neither EVs nor gasoline should be subsidized with my tax dollars.
Maybe you didn't see the chart on subsidies in the article. Did you actually read our host's article?
Yeah, no subsidies for anyone and let the market figure it out.
also, it seems that the majority off EV fires are from the bikes, which are mostly cheap and made overseas.
That may be. However there are thousands of these car and larger batteries that can and do spontaneously burn, and then can’t be easily put out. These are a large and very real problem. Even the bikes are a problem. Four people died in NYC when some bikes caught fire.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/tesla-megapack-fire-highlights-early-stage-issues-with-big-batteries.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/20/tesla-megapack-battery-caught-fire-at-pge-substation-in-california.html
https://electrek.co/2023/01/04/tesla-mobile-supercharger-megapack-caught-on-fire/
The above are all Tesla megapacks, not even including the one in Queensland last week. They have built dozens of these recently in my state. What safeguards are there? What tools do the fire departments have to fight a fire there? None. Nada. “No problem to see here, so if you ask questions about it you hate the environment and Elon too.” That’s the response we are getting from asking these questions.
My reading suggests that the number of spontaneous (non-crash related) fires is very low. From Motor Trend:
With an average of 16 EV *and hybrid fires* per year, there's a 1 in 38,000 chance of fire.
Jul 11, 2023
Once again, you need to understand that most firefighters would treat any battery fire no matter the chemistry, just like they would a house fire: let it burn, don't try to put it out.
And another for your enjoyment: https://youtu.be/7d1i0-3AdtQ?si=ju_1mcBZR5P7VaDw
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/27/tesla-lithium-battery-fire-bouldercombe-energy-storage-site-project-rockhampton
Regularly, and large storage units as well. Solar battery storage as well.
For those of you who are car fans and would enjoy a bloke with extremely snarky and well informed commentary on EVs, I suggest checking out this dude: https://youtu.be/7d1i0-3AdtQ?si=THUXRG62Sj5qJeps
His piece today is a hit on this incident from a few days ago that caused a news crew to take cover (seriously hope their lungs are ok): https://youtu.be/fyY-tnohLiY?si=koIVBBNeW9K00_Ul
It's an enterprise. No, really, they actually call it 'The Weather Enterprise':
Integrating Social and Behavioral Sciences Within the Weather Enterprise
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, 2018
https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/24865/chapter/1
https://doi.org/10.17226/24865
Social and Behavioral Sciences (SBS) has been The Science (TM) of the pandemic: masking, jabbing, lockdowns, vax passports, nudging, manipulation, coercion. In this application of SBS the Enterprise:
”includes the network of government agencies, private-sector companies, and academic institutions that provide weather services to the nation."
The media is a big, big part of it, lots of local TV station weather departments (all owned by a handful of national and multinational corporations.) That were also instrumental in the pandemic fear porn pushing lockdowns, mask mandates, jab mandates, etc.
You'll even find infamous propaganda specialist Kate Starbird listed in it as a contributor. It further details how they use the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to advance climate fear porn propaganda with health regulatory powers under the auspices of public health. As well as a collection naming of all of the centers of power that are coordinating and collaborating with this massive psychological mind-farkery operation. It's a big, big, big man-caused climate change "enterprise."
Here's the contents:
Front Matter (You've gotta check out the names of some of these Boards and Committees that contributed!)
Summary
Ch 1 Introduction
Ch 2 The Motivation for Integrating Social and Behavioral Sciences Within the Weather Enterprise
Ch 3 Assessing the Current State of Social and Behavioral Sciences Within the Weather Enterprise
Ch 4 Social and Behavioral Sciences for Road Weather Concerns
Ch 5 Research Needs for Improving the Nation’s Weather Readiness and Advancing Fundamental Social and Behavioral Science Knowledge
Ch 6 A Framework to Sustainably Support and Effectively Use Social and Behavioral Science Research in the Weather Enterprise
Ch 7 Summary of Key Findings and Recommendations
Appendix A Examples of Funding for Social and Behavioral Science Activities by NOAA, NSF, DHS1
Appendix B Lessons from SBS Integration into the “Public Health Enterprise”
Appendix C People Who Provided Input to the Committee
Appendix D Committee Biosketches
I've seen no better single resource to understanding their operational climate con job plan and strategies in one place than this book. For those who wish to do a very deep dive. A 182-page exercise describing the imposition of stupidity masquerading as intelligence and enlightened thought on an unwitting nation and world. The enterprise of weather.
A book for curious felines to explore. And canids.
Check out this opinion piece in JAMA. The author even said he had to go "tepid" in order to get it published.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2809861?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
And herein lies the real threat:
How we came to two generations that take climate change as unquestionable gospel.
I wonder who would be a bigger zealot in an imaginary crisis:
Someone who thinks you killed grandma or someone who thinks you're killing mother earth?
The level of cruelty that can be justified when people believe in a "moral" crusade is boundless because the beast inside is no longer burdened with the boundaries of empathy.
There is nothing so dangerous as a person or group who believe the ultimate testament of their fidelity to a righteous cause requires acts of cruelty to demonstrate their purity.
So in essence, these studies where scientists have to go "tepid" are pretty much worthless or could even cause harm. The people doing the censoring are never the good guys. History shows that 100% of the time.
Wait - JAMA? Like, the Journal of the American Medical Association?
How is this even remotely in their lane?
They're just part of The Clerisy.
Indeed!
Note: A synonym for 'enterprise' is 'racket.'
"These are the voyages of the starship racket as we explore the uncharted universe of grifters, confidence men, and clingons (clingers on) and star wars bars.
wow that's pretty disturbing.
When you pull back the curtain and discover that all their power is just levers, pulleys and buttons in the hands of pathetic little men and women it becomes less disturbing. Their power wilts in full view, open sunlight. All we have to do is be fearless Toto's sniffing around and pulling back curtains.
These people are weak and not very intelligent. Stupid, weak people who think they're smart and strong can do a lot of harm before they get revealed. Let's all endeavor to 'pants' them. The book unbuckles them, all we have to do reach out and yank their pants down and we can all point and laugh at how small they really are.
im inclined to agree with you except for the fact that these creepy ghouls also control the algorithms that own and operate just about every Western brain.
there may be a few of us out here who know not to fall for all the various spurious narratives of doom, but most people (certainly most people i know) are more than happy to be hypnotized by our reigning algorithms (esp as long as the shows and porn keep streaming and food is plentiful), and just like in Plato's cave, they don't even know they're hypnotized and would deny it vehemently.
Last I checked, the 60 year "war on poverty" has had zero effect on stemming the poverty rates in the United States, but it has created a behemoth taxing and regulatory government apparatus. The "green agenda" is merely a page out of that same "Communist Manifesto" handbook. The grift isn't new, it simply took on a new shade of color. Green is far more fitting a camouflage for this movement, as red always sticks out like a sore thumb.
Excellent post!
surely the "War on Drugs" has been a big success though, no?
No child left behind has been a great success as well. "Why Johnny Can't Read" has been updated to "Why Johnny Can't Tell What Sex Ze Is".
Our government's basically 0-29 since WW2.
I mean... it's probably 0-30 if we *include* WW2. 0-31 if we go back to WW1
It's true that clearly defining a "win" in the case of a world war has some pitfalls.
I totally get that this whole enterprise is built on lies, fraud and deceit. That it is a globally synchronized effort to…what?
Bankrupt the entire world, but not until after you have starved, frozen or boiled, and impoverished the entire planet in the effort?
I hear that the WEF, extremely upset with the peasants not wholly buying into the vaccine, and now having the audacity to pushback against their climate terrorism, are looking into f’n with the world’s water supplies. “That’ll get them plenty scared and compliant!” they chortle.
Do they not think past the next 5 minutes?
I mean, seriously, what’s their endgame scenario?
It looks rather deadly to me.
It is to control all of the world's energy, thereby giving them the power to dictate whether you can bring life into this world.
Seems straightforward and...EVIL
They are SO Saturday Morning Cartoonish.
It didn't seem too cartoonish when the world went into lockdown uniformly.
That wasn't a case of rule by rube imo.
They are dangerous because they have consolidated legions of technocrats to give the appearance of consensus.
Consensus can be a vehicle for conquest and conciliation of the "crowd". A crowd that's conditioned to conformity is easy to control. They won't even recognize they've been conquered when they clamp their own chains.
Who was in control during the plandemic?
A cabal of consensus.
How many people noticed that? Very few, because the appearance of consensus blinded the crowd to the consequences of forfeiting the need to confer.
"they have consolidated legions of technocrats to give the appearance of consensus."
This is their greatest "strength."
It's also why (IMO) they had to shut down the places where we could get together to talk about it. The large part of the consensus was artificial.
100%. Diabolical
Haha the first time I heard the word “malinformation ” it brought up images of childhood cartoons and the Legion of Doom. A caped superhero who roams the internet, slaying “untruths” with fixed algorithms warning labels
🎯
The more I see and learn, the more this appears to be a concerted push by a cabal of very wealthy globalist fascists, hoping to create a New World Order that will actually be a return to feudalism, with them as the New Aristocracy. Clearly, very complex, but at it's heart, this is what's driving it.
yes, after the Peasants' Rebellions of 2016 the global corporate state and its billionaire oligarch class have taken off the gloves and aint fuckin around anymore...
They are sick of us smelly proles and our backwards opinions and they will control the planet, its governments, its "cognitive infrastructure" and all its resources—what's the point of having all the money and power if you have to share it or risk losing it?
Luxury for them, slavery for you.
Control the money and you control everything. So that's what they want.
We've seen mass stupidity before, Stalin, Hitler, monarchs.
"I mean, seriously, what’s their endgame scenario?"
"I couldn't help it. It just popped in there." "What? What just popped in there?" ... "What did you do, Ray?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nph-3nljPJ8
It's worse than you think.
"Do they not think past the next 5 minutes?"
Nope! Narcissists tend not to.
My first encounter with the wind turbine grifters was when a friend whose tourism business was crushed by lockdowns took work with a South African outfit. As a professional mountaineer he was forced to undergo the most basic climbing training because... money. And every pettyfogging stupid 'training' thereafter. And the international overlords had to take their cut or they wouldn't grant qualification. His first job was on a windfarm in the semi desert. Like a nightmare novel of incomptence and greed. Lying idle for days, no proper water supply and when finally working, crap food of an amount that might have kept a 7 year old alive. Management completely isolated from the toilers and as arrogant as they could have been. It was like a modern 'green' version of the Dickensian workhouse. The stop oil girlies and boys would not have lasted a day in that hell.
The opposite in the US and Europe no doubt, lots of idle time and overpayment. A third offline at any given time. External infrastructure paid for by taxpayers and not accounted for in the costs.
I want my incandescent bulbs back!!!💡💡💡
Heresy!! Burn the witch!!! 🤣
What about the bulbs in our ovens or dryers or tail lights, for example?
How do they get replaced?
Has anyone said?
"How do they get replaced?"
*furiously scribbles designs, drafts patents applications for candle-powered lighting in common household appliances*
ESG = Engineering Scarcity Globally. Gretas Green Guards are the new Mao’s red guards who will enforce the regimes edicts. Calculate your ESG score to see if you will escape the gulag: https://yuribezmenov.substack.com/p/how-to-raise-your-esg-score
Not ti mention all the solar panels are made in China and there is no way to dispose of them that is environmentally friendly. Hypocrites.
Plus just think about the cognitive dissonance required to both want solar power to be ubiquitous while also seeking novel cloud-seeding media to screen off the sun.
It's like propping up the Tobacco Industry in North Carolina and at the same time sending them $Millions in "Don't Smoke" PSA material.
It's like propping up the Tobacco Industry in North Carolina and at the same time sending them $Millions in "Don't Smoke" PSA material.
---------
LOL that would never happen!!
Nah, we have a few US-made solar producers.
Remember chiruns, the carbon they want to remove is YOU!
OK, this is genius. I see a t-shirt here
"You can have my Bacon when you pry it from my cold, carbon-neutral hands."
I encourage folks to read "The Unpopular Truth About Electricity and The Future of Energy" by Dr. Lars Schernikau. Went to a conference where he laid waste to the alt energy movement. The physics behind these forms of energy just aren't viable on a basis of eROI (energy return on energy invested).
Here is a recorded talk of his: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_uBiHoIZIw
Fossil fuels are here to stay until we can find a way to efficiently and effectively proliferate a safer version of nuclear power...that day may already be here...https://x-energy.com/reactors/xe-100
Or we can just do the sensible thing and go back to not using electricity. Wood fire f the win. Some of us grew up just like this, and its honestly a great and healthy way to live. No distractions, no bullshit screens.
"Or we can just do the sensible thing and go back to not using electricity."
This is not remotely "the sensible thing" and I just realized why my other conversation with you went off the rails.
"Some of us grew up just like this"
If you like your rugged way of life you can keep your rugged way of life. Just recognize that "[W]ood fire ...[i]s honestly a great and healthy way to live." is just not at a true statement.
>is just not at a true statement.
About 22000 years of human history says otherwise.
My family and I have burned coal, wood, peat, dung, etc. for well over 1200 years that we know of. My grandma died at 99, was built like a linebacker as a result of our way of life, and likely could beat the living fuck out of your grandma. :-P
Don't let me persuade you though. Enjoy your convenience and consequences.
"My grandma died at 99, was built like a linebacker as a result of our way of life, and likely could beat the living fuck out of your grandma. :-P "
Yeah, this is the kind of thing you say when you wish to be taken seriously.
You can choose the Luddite life. It's not more moral.
And I'm done here. This isn't fruitful. You're not conversing but n good faith. You're just angry and, well... angry.
Maybe all the smoke inhalation and those cold night where you were frightened to death of your own grandmother had a different impact than you think.
I'm sorry you got called out on your bullshit histrionics and were directly contradicted by data. Go with god, and may jesus light your way.
Many are puzzled and continue to ask "...but why would they do this??"
If you assume it's a death cult, then it all makes sense. The hate themselves and project it onto humanity.
The most amazing thing is what obvious horseshit it is. Everything - ALL Life on Earth relies either directly or indirectly on plants. So, which is best for plants - higher or lower CO2?
We're currently at ~415 PPM (as an average, which itself is an absolutely idiotic measure of anything). People engaged in serious growing in greenhouses try to jack CO2 levels up to anywhere from 800-1200 PPM because PLANTS FUCKING LOVE CO2 and grow like crazy in higher CO2 levels. Below 150 PPM is where plants die off and that is where global extinctions happen. Check the CO2 levels in the fossil records against ice ages.
These people aren't just fuckheads; they're fuckheads intent on destroying human civilization because none of them cares one whit for any of it. It's all about the grift and power over others. Dumb and Evil don't have an excluded middle; most frequently, in fact, those traits travel in tandem. Unfortunately, they also tend to have a third companion, smugness.
South Park nailed this quite some time ago.
Every day it gets harder to come to any other conclusion.
Ayup.
Climate Change:
"The grift that keeps on giving."
In the UK in the last two years when gas prices shot up, my "100% renewable electricity" bills shot up even more. How can this happen? They were paying gas prices to renewable suppliers who weren't facing increased fuel costs. er... so when were renewables ever going to reduce prices ? something is rotten.
You thought they were telling you the truth about the price? Heh.
Not sure what I thought the truth was - maybe that I was too thick to understand the energy market mechanism. Whatever the mechanism is, it ain’t working to bring prices down, renewable generators are gaming the system, and no-one in the media asks the obvious questions. And the little guys pay for it.
Everywhere that it's deployed electricity prices skyrocket. Parts of SoCal are over 70¢ a kWh from 4-9pm.
market mechanisms are what they're eliminating
We are going to achieve Net Zero alright. Unfortunately, it's going to be Net Zero energy available.
If the high priests of the Church of Climate, and the Dyspeptic Saint Greta, were serious at all about their fear of the dreaded Carbon, they would be pushing Nuclear power, which is about as Net Zero as you can get. But they are fighting against nuclear just as hard as they are fighting for solar/wind. As the author of this article so neatly puts, they don't want a solution to their imaginary problem because it's about the money. There are a very few well connected people who have managed to position themselves at the outflow end of an extremely large pipeline that is gushing the money that the government is stealing from us taxpayers. They are getting stinking rich from solar and wind and they absolutely don't give the first frogs fart about climate or carbon or any of the rest of it. This has never been about climate and certainly not about me or you. This is purely about money, and about how much of it they can put in offshore banks before we all wake up and put a stop to it. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen tho...
Exactly. Cui bono? It’s a massive fabrication to con you. Control and stealing your money is what the Left is about. Don’t behave well, then we will turn off your electric car or your electronic money. You’ll own nothing and we will be happy - because we own it. See how that works?
Yep. It's not the climate crisis or the covid crisis or the currency crisis -- it's the CONTROL crisis.
Science can't even control or seriously influence local weather. Yet politicians want us to believe they can control the real weather makers such as the Gulf Stream and El Nino and La Nina.
When people's ideas of science come from Hollywood actors and DC politicians, you KNOW we're screwed.
There are those who do believe that they can, and do, manipulate the weather. LBJ famously said “he who controls the weather, controls the world”, in the mid 60s. In fact, manipulation of the climate (including earthquakes and other phenomena) has been a big player in the climate change propaganda. Witness the fires in Paradise CA and Lahaina, which have all the earmarks of weather weaponry by directed energy weapons (DEW). Yet the Governor of HI says it’s due climate change, and thus they are appropriating private property to create 15 minute city infrastructure.
Elana Freeland’s trio of geoengineering books lay it out (along with many other aspects of the technologies) in great detail. She had a long list of weather catastrophes since the 60s that are highly suspicious, yet the narrative is that all of this is caused by climate change.
It is true that the green solutions suck and as such we could say they don’t what they are doing. That’s true for the useful idiots like Greta Thunburg. For the owners this is evil genius to get away with with such a transparent scam, like they did with Covid, by controlling the nodes of influence. As gato points out.
The work of Rosa Korie is superb. She has YouTube videos of presentations to legislators from 11 years ago laying it all out. Her book is “Behind the Green Mask”.
I taught Earth Science, including climate change, many years ago. I was around for Al Gore's "The Ice Age Cometh", back in the 1970s. The mythology has only gotten worse since then.
I recommend Steeve Koonin's book, "Unsettled" for an intelligent look at the issues by an actual scientist. He points out the difference between climate change and weather. There is no such thing as weather events caused by climate change. People should get a clue about the use of the word "change." Change says that something is different than it used to be. You can't talk about a moment in time, and still be talking about change. A hurricane, a flood, a forest fire, a draught are all moments in time. They are weather events, not climate events.
But is it getting worse? Is WHAT getting worse? People only look at particular undesirable weather events as "proof" of the coming end of the world. Well, what about GOOD weather? Can anybody name how much more good weather and how much more habitable land we have as a result of climate change? Nobody considers the upside of climate change. Why not?
At any rate, there isn't a climatologist out there who will say that we can control climates. We are being played. Big time. It just might ruin us.
Yes! Rosa Koire. I read her book and then gave it to my cousin, who lives in Santa Rosa. She knew things were squirrely there, but that book really opened her eyes to what was--and is--going on. So sad that Rosa died. She was a magnificent fighter.