On the NSA spying thing I think it would be interesting for companies that have gotten such an NSA gag order to have some unwritten indicator to tip customers off like an open sign on the business with magenta lettering or something similar. Good luck in court proving the business violated the gag order on this basis. Honestly I just bought an open sign. I didn’t know it had a second meaning. It’s kind of like the Dutch wearing paper clips to symbolize nazi resistance.
In fact perhaps while under NSA gag order paper clips should become part of the uniform for your baristas. It somehow seems historically consistent and appropriate.
Geez, what a ride. I started out annoyed and then it got a lot better and then I ended up at "seriously no."
Putting one's faith in one actual man who is the only one of his kind--unless he can clone himself successfully and guarantee from beyond the wherever that none of the clones will turn traitor--
--there are no saviors. And anyway he's the EV monster whose obsession is pretty dangerous for we the gas-driving (and their passengers). And really, you know they can get to him too. He's not on Mars yet.
The guys with the monopoly on violence will always win. Even in the scenario you envision, you will still need to buy things to survive. Physical things, that exist is a certain place and time,
… that have to travel over roads and rails or air. All that is controlled by the guys with the guns, including the IRS.
No, there is no way out of this completely. The best we can do is control and minimize it, by building a society of strong morals and a culture of mutual respect.
Yes people can and will always be corrupted, but if we have a critical mass of moral people and a culture of mutual respect we can minimize the damage.
That’s the best we can ever hope for the future. But we are not heading that way at all. We are heading in precisely the opposite direction.
You are describing the “ant computer.” And some maintain that this is exactly what the globalists are building.
However, there is a fly in the ointment….even as you describe the pros and cons. That fly is human nature….and the presumption by the few that we all want what that few thinks is admirable or desirable.
The fact remains SOMEBODY must build the “machinery” and “maintain it”…..for this system. And the reality is that even as you describe it….it is a “system” which ends up in its own way being the keys to the kingdom. Or are we supposed to believe, given eons of history and documented evidence of human nature, that the likes of Musk (Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Theil) will set up this system out of the goodness of their heart and abandon it to its own authority once established?!?!
Additionally, what you are describing still puts humanity’s foot on the threshold of virtual reality….
So yeah, kind of think there is more hope of saving humanity were we to return to bartering and actually knowing in real time and space those you do business with….don’t buy the lies that progress and innovation is the remedy to all that ails us, especially when all the answers provided are through technology increasingly held by the few and used to harness or exploit the masses (treating them and their data, energy and essence as a commodity).
On a philosophical note…most of humanity is hard-wired for group behavior. Weather we call it a troop, clan, tribe, nation, or team, humans are collectivist by biology, and they also have a built in “obey the leader” psychology. The tendency to subservience, hierarchy, and group identity is hugely powerful. Most people are not like feral house cats, (who self-domesticated and come and go as they please) but they are more like chimps in a troop, or sheep in a pen. To a certain degree we all trade away freedom for belonging, and want to be on the winning team. I believe this is relevant because here we all dream of a system for the masses, but optimized for the libertarian few. To me, this is a structural mis/alignment.
Probably the most dystopian and cynical anti-Bitcoin take yet. Sure the rogue shadow govt exists—everybody and Snowden knows this. But these people often swear to uphold the Constitution, so there’s a risk in going full Gestapo iron fist sans velvet glove. Bitcoin is international, is seasonably decentralized, and is chock full of positive incentives for people & systems. The open ledger will be *useful* once organizations & governments are using it. Do we want *those people* using super private money? Pseudo anonymity for me and full transparency for the tax man seems just and proper.
I for one am not ready to toss out the good for the slim hope of the perfect.
"you could hide anything in that." Yup, you could. Including some very unsavory things. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of surveillance, but as my mother used to say, "be careful what you ask for, you might get it." I have no doubt that some of these hidden systems are already in place, now, I ask, who might be using them and why? How about human traffickers, child pornographers, people who have something to hide for very (not so) good reasons; things you and I would be absolutely appalled to find out are happening under our noses and to people we care about? What you are talking about is a double-edged sword here. I certainly would not want to be part of or even encourage the development of a system that makes it impossible to find out who may be trafficking real or AI-generated images of children online. And before you jump on me, yes, I do have somewhat of a personal interest or involvement in this matter: some years ago, my workplace was raided by the FBI because one of the higher ups, a man who used to be my direct supervisor, had PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGES OF HIS OWN CHILDREN, not on his own laptop, which would have been bad enough, but on a company supplied and owned laptop. The FBI came in without warning and seized several computers, which caused a panic among our clients as we dealt with confidential trade secrets and now who knows who had access to them. So yes, the scumbag was caught, and let's just say he doesn't have to worry about any future career plans or retirement for the rest of his life (which may not be all that long considering that his new "colleagues" take a very dim view of that kind of recreational activity). As I said, two-edged sword. I'm pretty sure we can all agree here we don't want to make it even easier for people like that to hide.
Sophia's husband here. It's sad to see how close you come to the solution, and then, because of some weird blinkers on your eyes, you dismiss the only viable solution to keep our wealth out of the government's power to debase and steal: bitcoin.
You say you have "been around" bitcoin for a long time, but somehow one of the biggest core disputes about its nature escaped your notice. Since the very beginning, there has been a tremendous disagreement between core developers and supporters of bitcoin as to whether it was a currency or a store of value. Since 2009, I have taken the "store of value" side. The blocksize wars from 2015 to 2017 have answered this question definitively. Bitcoin is a store of value. A digital gold. Those who keep pushing the idea of bitcoin as a currency are wilfully missing the point. The project has grown and adapted, and the ideals of the white paper are nothing but a historical footnote at this point.
All your objections as to traceability and gatekeeping are stupid. They only apply in a situation where people try to marry bitcoin with the legacy financial system. What we need, and what is already developing in places like Africa with no decent infrastructure, is a circular economy where bitcoin is exchanged for goods and services, not for fiat. In that circumstance, the government is powerless to obstruct. They can track the bitcoin you buy on Coinbase, but not the bitcoin I pay you from my wallet to yours for the new well you drilled on my property or the engine repair I did on your van,
Surely you are aware that every currency passes through three steps to wide acceptance: First, it is a collectible, then a store of value, then a unit of account. We are somewhere at the beginning of price discovery. At present, bitcoin is too volatile to be a unit of account, but it is rapidly growing as a store of value. Have you not noticed it has become one of the top 10 stores of value on earth? So yes, we are moving from step 1 to step 2. Bitcoin is not, and never will be, a daily currency to use for your morning coffee run. It is here to replace precious metals, real estate, and bonds as a store of value. You dismiss layer 2 and layer 3 solutions because you don't actually understand layer 1. You apparently think you do, but you do not.
The future world economy will revolve around CBDC's, run on the XRP ledger, and bitcoin, which is freedom money. You need to wake up and stop looking at bitcoin through the lens of whatever you think it is, and learn what it really is. The billionaires of the world are quietly moving their wealth into bitcoin because they will never, ever leave their wealth in a system where CBDC's can shut them down at will.
Interesting thoughts but with this solutions we are still brainwashed and dependent on the number of likes you got in facebook and twitter, we are still spied on by Alexa, nest… to be expected to be in front of a screen the whole day. Maybe we will be invisible but still with the sheep mentality. I am much more pessimist and I think the only way to retain our freedom and our money is to kiss goodbye to all these new inventions and to directly ignore the government and its agencies. I deleted all my accounts in Facebook, twitter, youtube, amazon, etc when the scandemia started. I don’t watch tv, I try to pay with cash instead of credit card to allow people to evade if they can, I’ve forbidden Alexa or similar things in my home. I seriously think to move to a farm…. I like my easy modern life but not as much as my freedom. My gut tells me the solution is less technology… it has been an awfully good ally for the government until now….
"this literally turns the essentially infinite resource of idiots arguing with idiots on social media into the basis to protect the privacy of the internet."
Careful there! Some of these idiots might be your subscribers.
In all seriousness, I think that the US and other governments will do to Iceland with data that they did to Switzerland with banking. They can bring enormous pressure to bare on any country that does not play ball. The only insurance is that agents of government use these services as well. It was said that the Germans didn't invade Switzerland in WWII because the top Nazi officials were hiding their ill-gotten gains there.
That, or quietly stashing 5000 year old shiny money where its safe. Even the US leviathan might have to return to physical gold as the rest of the world eventually redeems their US paper/digital dollars.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value – zero"
Wow. This actually made sense (mostly) to my tech-averse brain. Thanks for putting it in terms I could (sorta) grasp.
On the NSA spying thing I think it would be interesting for companies that have gotten such an NSA gag order to have some unwritten indicator to tip customers off like an open sign on the business with magenta lettering or something similar. Good luck in court proving the business violated the gag order on this basis. Honestly I just bought an open sign. I didn’t know it had a second meaning. It’s kind of like the Dutch wearing paper clips to symbolize nazi resistance.
In fact perhaps while under NSA gag order paper clips should become part of the uniform for your baristas. It somehow seems historically consistent and appropriate.
Geez, what a ride. I started out annoyed and then it got a lot better and then I ended up at "seriously no."
Putting one's faith in one actual man who is the only one of his kind--unless he can clone himself successfully and guarantee from beyond the wherever that none of the clones will turn traitor--
--there are no saviors. And anyway he's the EV monster whose obsession is pretty dangerous for we the gas-driving (and their passengers). And really, you know they can get to him too. He's not on Mars yet.
The guys with the monopoly on violence will always win. Even in the scenario you envision, you will still need to buy things to survive. Physical things, that exist is a certain place and time,
… that have to travel over roads and rails or air. All that is controlled by the guys with the guns, including the IRS.
No, there is no way out of this completely. The best we can do is control and minimize it, by building a society of strong morals and a culture of mutual respect.
Yes people can and will always be corrupted, but if we have a critical mass of moral people and a culture of mutual respect we can minimize the damage.
That’s the best we can ever hope for the future. But we are not heading that way at all. We are heading in precisely the opposite direction.
Did you listen to tuckers interview with pavel? Telegram fits your definition better than twitter.
You are describing the “ant computer.” And some maintain that this is exactly what the globalists are building.
However, there is a fly in the ointment….even as you describe the pros and cons. That fly is human nature….and the presumption by the few that we all want what that few thinks is admirable or desirable.
The fact remains SOMEBODY must build the “machinery” and “maintain it”…..for this system. And the reality is that even as you describe it….it is a “system” which ends up in its own way being the keys to the kingdom. Or are we supposed to believe, given eons of history and documented evidence of human nature, that the likes of Musk (Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Theil) will set up this system out of the goodness of their heart and abandon it to its own authority once established?!?!
Additionally, what you are describing still puts humanity’s foot on the threshold of virtual reality….
So yeah, kind of think there is more hope of saving humanity were we to return to bartering and actually knowing in real time and space those you do business with….don’t buy the lies that progress and innovation is the remedy to all that ails us, especially when all the answers provided are through technology increasingly held by the few and used to harness or exploit the masses (treating them and their data, energy and essence as a commodity).
On a philosophical note…most of humanity is hard-wired for group behavior. Weather we call it a troop, clan, tribe, nation, or team, humans are collectivist by biology, and they also have a built in “obey the leader” psychology. The tendency to subservience, hierarchy, and group identity is hugely powerful. Most people are not like feral house cats, (who self-domesticated and come and go as they please) but they are more like chimps in a troop, or sheep in a pen. To a certain degree we all trade away freedom for belonging, and want to be on the winning team. I believe this is relevant because here we all dream of a system for the masses, but optimized for the libertarian few. To me, this is a structural mis/alignment.
Probably the most dystopian and cynical anti-Bitcoin take yet. Sure the rogue shadow govt exists—everybody and Snowden knows this. But these people often swear to uphold the Constitution, so there’s a risk in going full Gestapo iron fist sans velvet glove. Bitcoin is international, is seasonably decentralized, and is chock full of positive incentives for people & systems. The open ledger will be *useful* once organizations & governments are using it. Do we want *those people* using super private money? Pseudo anonymity for me and full transparency for the tax man seems just and proper.
I for one am not ready to toss out the good for the slim hope of the perfect.
Ross Ulbricht - that’s a name worth remembering - must learn more about him. Thanks!
"you could hide anything in that." Yup, you could. Including some very unsavory things. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of surveillance, but as my mother used to say, "be careful what you ask for, you might get it." I have no doubt that some of these hidden systems are already in place, now, I ask, who might be using them and why? How about human traffickers, child pornographers, people who have something to hide for very (not so) good reasons; things you and I would be absolutely appalled to find out are happening under our noses and to people we care about? What you are talking about is a double-edged sword here. I certainly would not want to be part of or even encourage the development of a system that makes it impossible to find out who may be trafficking real or AI-generated images of children online. And before you jump on me, yes, I do have somewhat of a personal interest or involvement in this matter: some years ago, my workplace was raided by the FBI because one of the higher ups, a man who used to be my direct supervisor, had PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGES OF HIS OWN CHILDREN, not on his own laptop, which would have been bad enough, but on a company supplied and owned laptop. The FBI came in without warning and seized several computers, which caused a panic among our clients as we dealt with confidential trade secrets and now who knows who had access to them. So yes, the scumbag was caught, and let's just say he doesn't have to worry about any future career plans or retirement for the rest of his life (which may not be all that long considering that his new "colleagues" take a very dim view of that kind of recreational activity). As I said, two-edged sword. I'm pretty sure we can all agree here we don't want to make it even easier for people like that to hide.
Wait a minute-- does the state control the banks? I thought the biggest bankers owned the companies that own the politicians...
Sophia's husband here. It's sad to see how close you come to the solution, and then, because of some weird blinkers on your eyes, you dismiss the only viable solution to keep our wealth out of the government's power to debase and steal: bitcoin.
You say you have "been around" bitcoin for a long time, but somehow one of the biggest core disputes about its nature escaped your notice. Since the very beginning, there has been a tremendous disagreement between core developers and supporters of bitcoin as to whether it was a currency or a store of value. Since 2009, I have taken the "store of value" side. The blocksize wars from 2015 to 2017 have answered this question definitively. Bitcoin is a store of value. A digital gold. Those who keep pushing the idea of bitcoin as a currency are wilfully missing the point. The project has grown and adapted, and the ideals of the white paper are nothing but a historical footnote at this point.
All your objections as to traceability and gatekeeping are stupid. They only apply in a situation where people try to marry bitcoin with the legacy financial system. What we need, and what is already developing in places like Africa with no decent infrastructure, is a circular economy where bitcoin is exchanged for goods and services, not for fiat. In that circumstance, the government is powerless to obstruct. They can track the bitcoin you buy on Coinbase, but not the bitcoin I pay you from my wallet to yours for the new well you drilled on my property or the engine repair I did on your van,
Surely you are aware that every currency passes through three steps to wide acceptance: First, it is a collectible, then a store of value, then a unit of account. We are somewhere at the beginning of price discovery. At present, bitcoin is too volatile to be a unit of account, but it is rapidly growing as a store of value. Have you not noticed it has become one of the top 10 stores of value on earth? So yes, we are moving from step 1 to step 2. Bitcoin is not, and never will be, a daily currency to use for your morning coffee run. It is here to replace precious metals, real estate, and bonds as a store of value. You dismiss layer 2 and layer 3 solutions because you don't actually understand layer 1. You apparently think you do, but you do not.
The future world economy will revolve around CBDC's, run on the XRP ledger, and bitcoin, which is freedom money. You need to wake up and stop looking at bitcoin through the lens of whatever you think it is, and learn what it really is. The billionaires of the world are quietly moving their wealth into bitcoin because they will never, ever leave their wealth in a system where CBDC's can shut them down at will.
Good Galt!
Interesting thoughts but with this solutions we are still brainwashed and dependent on the number of likes you got in facebook and twitter, we are still spied on by Alexa, nest… to be expected to be in front of a screen the whole day. Maybe we will be invisible but still with the sheep mentality. I am much more pessimist and I think the only way to retain our freedom and our money is to kiss goodbye to all these new inventions and to directly ignore the government and its agencies. I deleted all my accounts in Facebook, twitter, youtube, amazon, etc when the scandemia started. I don’t watch tv, I try to pay with cash instead of credit card to allow people to evade if they can, I’ve forbidden Alexa or similar things in my home. I seriously think to move to a farm…. I like my easy modern life but not as much as my freedom. My gut tells me the solution is less technology… it has been an awfully good ally for the government until now….
"this literally turns the essentially infinite resource of idiots arguing with idiots on social media into the basis to protect the privacy of the internet."
Careful there! Some of these idiots might be your subscribers.
In all seriousness, I think that the US and other governments will do to Iceland with data that they did to Switzerland with banking. They can bring enormous pressure to bare on any country that does not play ball. The only insurance is that agents of government use these services as well. It was said that the Germans didn't invade Switzerland in WWII because the top Nazi officials were hiding their ill-gotten gains there.
That, or quietly stashing 5000 year old shiny money where its safe. Even the US leviathan might have to return to physical gold as the rest of the world eventually redeems their US paper/digital dollars.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value – zero"
~ Voltaire