The deep confusion displayed by Andrew Neil is very interesting to me. The exact same confusion cropped up in a discussion with a friend the other day. Both men are highly intelligent (or would typically be considered as such). There's something about this topic that just kill's people's ability to reason logically stone dead. I'd love t…
The deep confusion displayed by Andrew Neil is very interesting to me. The exact same confusion cropped up in a discussion with a friend the other day. Both men are highly intelligent (or would typically be considered as such). There's something about this topic that just kill's people's ability to reason logically stone dead. I'd love to know what exactly it is. Neither Neil nor my friend are exactly leftists, so it's not enough to say it's political ideology.
In both cases the confusion started with "unvaccinated people aren't safe to be around" and when you ask why they believe that if the vaccines work, they just start to look really confused. Then they say "but herd immunity" (this was literally the wording my friend used), and again, when you point out that herd immunity only matters for people who *don't* take a vaccine, the confusion gets even greater. Then maybe they start talking about hospital capacity, which I think has turned into the official line because it seems to take away this sort of confusion, but then you say "but vaccine passports don't change hospital load because the virus is everywhere anyway and the vaccinated spread it" and they just give up - or admit that it's about coercion, but then they have to admit governments are all lying and if they're lying, why do you trust them about vaccines again?
This is what we get for tolerating years of social conditioning to treat "anti vaxxer" as a synonym for crazy person. People switch their brains off, perhaps in fear that if their brains start working they'll find themselves in the wrong tribe and that would be terrible. Clearly, claims by said "anti vaxxers" need to be re-evaluated now - we're all getting a real time lesson in the extreme mendacity that appears to characterize this space.
I have been anti-vcxx for thirty years, and am against mandatory inoculations as well. So that definition has caught up with me. Information overload (of fear of) is a major obstacle for parents to give informed consent. Trust the experts, even when they aren't, because the rabbit hole is way too deep and dark.
I agree. I think we need to emphasize that herd immunity is only created by having individuals who have STERILIZING immunity and that viral spread and viral mutations can occur in any individual who does not sterilize the virus. This includes individuals who are both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Full stop.
Then we can go on to discuss the sterilization via the innate vs adaptive immune system and symptomatic vs asymptomatic etc.. but first things first.
Yes to all of that! Well stated. I have also reevaluated the "antivaxxers" and it's been an education. Happy to be labeled as such these days. Do your worst assholes.
The deep confusion displayed by Andrew Neil is very interesting to me. The exact same confusion cropped up in a discussion with a friend the other day. Both men are highly intelligent (or would typically be considered as such). There's something about this topic that just kill's people's ability to reason logically stone dead. I'd love to know what exactly it is. Neither Neil nor my friend are exactly leftists, so it's not enough to say it's political ideology.
In both cases the confusion started with "unvaccinated people aren't safe to be around" and when you ask why they believe that if the vaccines work, they just start to look really confused. Then they say "but herd immunity" (this was literally the wording my friend used), and again, when you point out that herd immunity only matters for people who *don't* take a vaccine, the confusion gets even greater. Then maybe they start talking about hospital capacity, which I think has turned into the official line because it seems to take away this sort of confusion, but then you say "but vaccine passports don't change hospital load because the virus is everywhere anyway and the vaccinated spread it" and they just give up - or admit that it's about coercion, but then they have to admit governments are all lying and if they're lying, why do you trust them about vaccines again?
This is what we get for tolerating years of social conditioning to treat "anti vaxxer" as a synonym for crazy person. People switch their brains off, perhaps in fear that if their brains start working they'll find themselves in the wrong tribe and that would be terrible. Clearly, claims by said "anti vaxxers" need to be re-evaluated now - we're all getting a real time lesson in the extreme mendacity that appears to characterize this space.
I just tell them I am proudly anti-vaxx, and they will be too as soon as they actually research it with a focus on the truth.
even the bad cat will get there eventually. or quickly if he just opens his eyes https://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/education/vaxxed2
a total MUST see
I have been anti-vcxx for thirty years, and am against mandatory inoculations as well. So that definition has caught up with me. Information overload (of fear of) is a major obstacle for parents to give informed consent. Trust the experts, even when they aren't, because the rabbit hole is way too deep and dark.
I agree. I think we need to emphasize that herd immunity is only created by having individuals who have STERILIZING immunity and that viral spread and viral mutations can occur in any individual who does not sterilize the virus. This includes individuals who are both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Full stop.
Then we can go on to discuss the sterilization via the innate vs adaptive immune system and symptomatic vs asymptomatic etc.. but first things first.
we could have treated early and covid could have been over by now.
ugh but science and logic is hard! it might work in person, but I have yet to get anyone to understand these basic concepts online.
Yes to all of that! Well stated. I have also reevaluated the "antivaxxers" and it's been an education. Happy to be labeled as such these days. Do your worst assholes.