Not necessarily. There was a point in time in which measles and mumps were no longer seen as dangerous, but simply a rite of passage, much as chicken pox remained until the late 90’s when they started pushing the vax. There used to even be clips from TV shows and commercials that reflected this cultural understanding on YouTube, but with their current agenda, may have been scrubbed).
Were there kids who got those diseases and got very sick and/or died? Yes, but much like there are kids now who get influenza and die - very, VERY rare in a healthy child, and no “flu shot” would have changed that. In the case of measles and mumps, it can easily be argued that the overall loss to a society from the damage done by vaccinating kids for measles and mumps - both including those who die after vaccination, and the quality of life lost by vaccine injury - vastly outweighs the loss of life from those diseases at the point we began vaccinating against them.
One could also note that it has been the *vaccinated* that have primarily been affected in recent measles outbreaks.
To be clear, the statement alone without data would be selection bias, but the data clear shows that the rates of death from those childhood diseases had already sharply decreased to very, very low before the vaccines were introduced. Suzanne Humphries’s “Dissolving Illusions” is an excellent source to check out.
Yes! Risk versus benefit for most childhood vaccines does not weigh favorably for most children to receive the list of vaccines - I agree based on my research, too.
there were "unvaccinated" kids and adults who were infected from the Disney Measles Mania in 2015, none died. There were also vaccinated kids. same outcome. The adults were "unvaccinated" because they either hadn't had the booster shot or couldn't recall if they'd gotten the jab. That outbreak was used to steamroll CA SB277, removing parental choice from the mandatory schedule for schools.
My 2016 book Mandatory Vaccinations = Totalitarian Inoculation covered that campaign in dept. I predicted the elimination of parental rights violating both federal and state constitutions, wouldn't arouse opposition until adults faced their own imminent loss of rights, using the same strategy as the CA campaign.
We didn’t die…equating the vaccines as a ‘prevention’ to these ‘dreaded’ childhood diseases, to riding a bike without a helmet is ludicrous. Oh and we rode bikes, skated in funky roller skates, rode skateboards & ‘dirt bikes’ out in the Southern CA desert and we did did not wear helmets or died.
The risks associated with these childhood vaxxes, far outweigh the benefits, IMO. The ‘childhood vaccine schedule’ is a total fabrication of BIG PHARMA who control The Industrial Medical Healthcare Complex, so totally and completely now, that there is little room in the way of questioning or investigation of their motives for creating this ‘schedule’.
In addition Big Pharma has the majority of the State Legislatures by the ‘cojones’ (as we say down here, where I hail from on the US Mexican border), with their heavy financial support of these legislators. Legislators who have pushed through legislation (as they did in the State of CA) to ban ANY type of exemption that would allow for parents who do not wish to vaccinate their kids, to send their child to a public and or private school in CA, without having finished the 72 vaxxes in 16 doses schedule! Don’t even get me going further on this issue! Your argument fails to address NADA!
I didn't *equate* them. I simply pointed out that the *argument* - "We all got the measles, mumps and chicken pox…and we did not die!" - is a logical fallacy, or whatever selection bias is called. Because some people DID die from M M and CP...but they're not around to rebut your point.
I grew up when seat belts not only weren't common, many cars didn't even offer them. But I survived "when we were children and we rode around in cars and never wore a seat belt...and we did not die!" so what's the big deal with putting kids in seat belts and car seats these days?
It is very well recognised that as cars become safer for the driver - disc, anti-lock brakes, aur bags, seat belts, crumple zones, etc drivers have an over-perception of their safety and reduced risk, and drive less carefully. The result is more death and injury to other road users outside the car.
People now have an over-reliance on safety devices, so they assume they cannot get injured so need not take precautions. And when the safety device fails or there isn’t one, they are in trouble.
As kids we learned risk and danger by often painful trial and error, and how thus to manage and avoid.
Natural immunity always beats vaccination for a broader and cross-immunity.
Absolutely agree! Have you heard of the traffic experiment conducted in the Netherlands? They removed all traffic signs and rules and it forced people to drive more consciously which didn't result in chaos and death, but the exact opposite! Not sure why it didn't lead to country wide policy change. Food for thought. I think people are too scared to live like this.
I don't think so. Because if you are doing a calculated risk/benefit analysis, then you are looking at: "50% of today’s children suffer from issues, like childhood diabetes, ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorders, childhood cancers, food allergies (peanut especially), auto immune diseases, etc." VERSUS stats like (from https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/measlesdataandstatsslideset.pdf)
"U.S. Measles Burden: Before 1963 Vaccine Development*
Each year, measles caused an estimated 3 to 4 million cases
• Close to 500,000 cases were reported annually to CDC, resulting in:
Many of these deaths were in institutions where the first measles vaccine was tested. The conditions were appalling, nutrition horrible. Not sure about the encephalitis, but childhood vaccines routinely cause brain swelling and extremely high fevers.
I think the risk-to-benefit analysis is to what Frontera Lupita is referring when she says "we did not die". My understanding of her statement is that we didn't need vaccines that might harm us because the vast majority of children are not harmed by these childhood illnesses. The risk-to-benefit ratio shows more risk than benefit.
"We all got the measles, mumps and chicken pox…and we did not die!"
Isn't that kinda like saying, "We all rode bikes and didn't wear helmets…and we did not die!" Well, no, you didn't. But plenty of kids did.
I think it's called selection bias. "Look at all of us who are alive - we didn't die!"
Not necessarily. There was a point in time in which measles and mumps were no longer seen as dangerous, but simply a rite of passage, much as chicken pox remained until the late 90’s when they started pushing the vax. There used to even be clips from TV shows and commercials that reflected this cultural understanding on YouTube, but with their current agenda, may have been scrubbed).
Were there kids who got those diseases and got very sick and/or died? Yes, but much like there are kids now who get influenza and die - very, VERY rare in a healthy child, and no “flu shot” would have changed that. In the case of measles and mumps, it can easily be argued that the overall loss to a society from the damage done by vaccinating kids for measles and mumps - both including those who die after vaccination, and the quality of life lost by vaccine injury - vastly outweighs the loss of life from those diseases at the point we began vaccinating against them.
One could also note that it has been the *vaccinated* that have primarily been affected in recent measles outbreaks.
To be clear, the statement alone without data would be selection bias, but the data clear shows that the rates of death from those childhood diseases had already sharply decreased to very, very low before the vaccines were introduced. Suzanne Humphries’s “Dissolving Illusions” is an excellent source to check out.
Better hygiene and sanitation is the key factor in preventing spread of disease and better health.
Without this, vaccines and medication have little value… see poor Countries in Africa and Asia.
Yes! Risk versus benefit for most childhood vaccines does not weigh favorably for most children to receive the list of vaccines - I agree based on my research, too.
Yes and remember the infamous measles ‘outbreak’ a few years back at Disneyland? Those cases were in vaccinated individuals! 🤦♀️
there were "unvaccinated" kids and adults who were infected from the Disney Measles Mania in 2015, none died. There were also vaccinated kids. same outcome. The adults were "unvaccinated" because they either hadn't had the booster shot or couldn't recall if they'd gotten the jab. That outbreak was used to steamroll CA SB277, removing parental choice from the mandatory schedule for schools.
Yes a total BS manipulation of the data to push through the evil agenda of Dr. Richard Pan!
My 2016 book Mandatory Vaccinations = Totalitarian Inoculation covered that campaign in dept. I predicted the elimination of parental rights violating both federal and state constitutions, wouldn't arouse opposition until adults faced their own imminent loss of rights, using the same strategy as the CA campaign.
added to my wish list for christmas!
I will send you an electronic version if you subscribe to my substack. Not a bribe, just grateful for readers, even Juris.
And they blamed it on the unvaccinated.
😹😹😹
You are the second person mentioning the Suzanne Humphries book ‘Dissolving Illusions’ in this thread. 👍🏼
it's an incredibly important read. Best way to get an overall understanding of the problem
We didn’t die…equating the vaccines as a ‘prevention’ to these ‘dreaded’ childhood diseases, to riding a bike without a helmet is ludicrous. Oh and we rode bikes, skated in funky roller skates, rode skateboards & ‘dirt bikes’ out in the Southern CA desert and we did did not wear helmets or died.
The risks associated with these childhood vaxxes, far outweigh the benefits, IMO. The ‘childhood vaccine schedule’ is a total fabrication of BIG PHARMA who control The Industrial Medical Healthcare Complex, so totally and completely now, that there is little room in the way of questioning or investigation of their motives for creating this ‘schedule’.
In addition Big Pharma has the majority of the State Legislatures by the ‘cojones’ (as we say down here, where I hail from on the US Mexican border), with their heavy financial support of these legislators. Legislators who have pushed through legislation (as they did in the State of CA) to ban ANY type of exemption that would allow for parents who do not wish to vaccinate their kids, to send their child to a public and or private school in CA, without having finished the 72 vaxxes in 16 doses schedule! Don’t even get me going further on this issue! Your argument fails to address NADA!
I didn't *equate* them. I simply pointed out that the *argument* - "We all got the measles, mumps and chicken pox…and we did not die!" - is a logical fallacy, or whatever selection bias is called. Because some people DID die from M M and CP...but they're not around to rebut your point.
I grew up when seat belts not only weren't common, many cars didn't even offer them. But I survived "when we were children and we rode around in cars and never wore a seat belt...and we did not die!" so what's the big deal with putting kids in seat belts and car seats these days?
But plenty of kids still do, adults too.
It is very well recognised that as cars become safer for the driver - disc, anti-lock brakes, aur bags, seat belts, crumple zones, etc drivers have an over-perception of their safety and reduced risk, and drive less carefully. The result is more death and injury to other road users outside the car.
People now have an over-reliance on safety devices, so they assume they cannot get injured so need not take precautions. And when the safety device fails or there isn’t one, they are in trouble.
As kids we learned risk and danger by often painful trial and error, and how thus to manage and avoid.
Natural immunity always beats vaccination for a broader and cross-immunity.
Absolutely agree! Have you heard of the traffic experiment conducted in the Netherlands? They removed all traffic signs and rules and it forced people to drive more consciously which didn't result in chaos and death, but the exact opposite! Not sure why it didn't lead to country wide policy change. Food for thought. I think people are too scared to live like this.
Because there’s a lot of money in traffic signs/street furniture and it gives local Hitlers power over the plebs controlling their movement.
Duh! Follow the money. Should have thought of that. Sometimes I still want to believe in benevolent government. It’s why I moved back here. Sigh.
I don't think so. Because if you are doing a calculated risk/benefit analysis, then you are looking at: "50% of today’s children suffer from issues, like childhood diabetes, ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorders, childhood cancers, food allergies (peanut especially), auto immune diseases, etc." VERSUS stats like (from https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/measlesdataandstatsslideset.pdf)
"U.S. Measles Burden: Before 1963 Vaccine Development*
Each year, measles caused an estimated 3 to 4 million cases
• Close to 500,000 cases were reported annually to CDC, resulting in:
o 48,000 hospitalizations
o 1,000 cases with encephalitis (brain swelling)
o 400 to 500 deaths"
Many of these deaths were in institutions where the first measles vaccine was tested. The conditions were appalling, nutrition horrible. Not sure about the encephalitis, but childhood vaccines routinely cause brain swelling and extremely high fevers.
The calculated risk/benefit analysis is a different argument from "We all got the measles, mumps and chicken pox…and we did not die!"
I think the risk-to-benefit analysis is to what Frontera Lupita is referring when she says "we did not die". My understanding of her statement is that we didn't need vaccines that might harm us because the vast majority of children are not harmed by these childhood illnesses. The risk-to-benefit ratio shows more risk than benefit.