consider the possibility that this mindset is what is preventing many christians from finding the natural alliance with other "golden rule believers" with whom they might join to reshape society.
there is not nor can there be any proof of such literal truth in the first sense and it does not need to be true to share a set of precepts with…
consider the possibility that this mindset is what is preventing many christians from finding the natural alliance with other "golden rule believers" with whom they might join to reshape society.
there is not nor can there be any proof of such literal truth in the first sense and it does not need to be true to share a set of precepts with people who do not share deistic faith.
perfectly good and wise and appropriate societal fabrics may be woven from that which is not literally true. insistence upon it seems like a way to alienate those who mostly share your morals.
Have you seen the United Church (of Canada for instance). It is a diluted swill of social justice stand for nothingness fall for everythingness. Alliances with other 'golden rule believers'? I think not.
Have you ever considered that what you call Christian’s’ “insistence” is actually loving others and wanting their best? It’s standing against those very things that are tearing down our society as well as our humanity. Would you think me good and kind to let my child play in the road because it makes him happy and “it doesn’t hurt others?” We’re the ones picking up the pieces of those who have reaped the consequences of that thinking.
It’s exactly that ‘I know best for you. And I will make sure you do what’s best for you, because I am so good and have so much love for you.’ Kind of thinking that got us into this mess. Respect for others is love, humility is virtue.
The problem with your latter statement is it rejects the Christian concept of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit as a fact, a truth if you will (see Acts). This is who changes people's hearts to want to share morals and bear fruit of the Christian life, through society, culture. That's why without a faith in Christ that allows indwelling of the Holy Spirit, man's heart will NEVER be humble enough to corroborate in a good "societal fabric". To wit:
Romans 3:9-18
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
Reshaping society is not nor should it be the primary goal of Christians. That is not the Great Commission nor a divine mandate.
“19 [a]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you [b]always, even to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20. This is the Great Commission and the divine mandate.
Fulfilling the great commission will by default reshape society but that is a side effect and not the goal. Christians can work toward other goals, but not if it means compromising the gospel. You are asking Christians to compromise the gospel in the name of reshaping society, that is a deal that no Christian mature in their faith can ever make. Our nations are important, our societies are important, but the Kingdom is more important.
We are well aware this mindset prevents such alliances and it’s a price we are willing to pay to stand firm upon the gospel.
This reminds me of something Bishop Athanasius Schneider said recently with regard to the present Vatican seeming almost to want to turn the Church into an NGO, to fight climate change etc. Bishop Schneider said it is not the role of the Holy and Apostolic Church to devote its resources to, or even focus on, things like climate change (formerly known as "weather") or pandemics, real or otherwise ... no, the work of the Church as Jesus instructed his apostles is to save souls and focus on what is eternal, not the temporal.
This idea...that we don’t have to believe the literal to hold on to the good... is the thread that binds us all in a unit. Christians who insist that I and all go back to believing the literal only cause disconnect. Find the good in all and connect to that.
consider the possibility that this mindset is what is preventing many christians from finding the natural alliance with other "golden rule believers" with whom they might join to reshape society.
there is not nor can there be any proof of such literal truth in the first sense and it does not need to be true to share a set of precepts with people who do not share deistic faith.
perfectly good and wise and appropriate societal fabrics may be woven from that which is not literally true. insistence upon it seems like a way to alienate those who mostly share your morals.
Have you seen the United Church (of Canada for instance). It is a diluted swill of social justice stand for nothingness fall for everythingness. Alliances with other 'golden rule believers'? I think not.
Have you ever considered that what you call Christian’s’ “insistence” is actually loving others and wanting their best? It’s standing against those very things that are tearing down our society as well as our humanity. Would you think me good and kind to let my child play in the road because it makes him happy and “it doesn’t hurt others?” We’re the ones picking up the pieces of those who have reaped the consequences of that thinking.
It’s exactly that ‘I know best for you. And I will make sure you do what’s best for you, because I am so good and have so much love for you.’ Kind of thinking that got us into this mess. Respect for others is love, humility is virtue.
Please do not "love me" without my consent.
The problem with your latter statement is it rejects the Christian concept of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit as a fact, a truth if you will (see Acts). This is who changes people's hearts to want to share morals and bear fruit of the Christian life, through society, culture. That's why without a faith in Christ that allows indwelling of the Holy Spirit, man's heart will NEVER be humble enough to corroborate in a good "societal fabric". To wit:
Romans 3:9-18
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Reshaping society is not nor should it be the primary goal of Christians. That is not the Great Commission nor a divine mandate.
“19 [a]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you [b]always, even to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20. This is the Great Commission and the divine mandate.
Fulfilling the great commission will by default reshape society but that is a side effect and not the goal. Christians can work toward other goals, but not if it means compromising the gospel. You are asking Christians to compromise the gospel in the name of reshaping society, that is a deal that no Christian mature in their faith can ever make. Our nations are important, our societies are important, but the Kingdom is more important.
We are well aware this mindset prevents such alliances and it’s a price we are willing to pay to stand firm upon the gospel.
This reminds me of something Bishop Athanasius Schneider said recently with regard to the present Vatican seeming almost to want to turn the Church into an NGO, to fight climate change etc. Bishop Schneider said it is not the role of the Holy and Apostolic Church to devote its resources to, or even focus on, things like climate change (formerly known as "weather") or pandemics, real or otherwise ... no, the work of the Church as Jesus instructed his apostles is to save souls and focus on what is eternal, not the temporal.
This idea...that we don’t have to believe the literal to hold on to the good... is the thread that binds us all in a unit. Christians who insist that I and all go back to believing the literal only cause disconnect. Find the good in all and connect to that.
Considered. Maybe without it the "natural alliance" people would have not conceived the golden rule.
"and it does not need to be true to share a set of precepts with people who do not share deistic faith."
This is the, dare I say, "true" root of Western Civilization.
Andrew Klavan addresses this question brilliantly in this City Journal article, well worth a read: https://www.city-journal.org/article/can-we-believe