Are you saying that communists/communism won? I think you are confusing globocapitalism/imperialism with communism, which has never existed as it was posited by Marx/Engels except maybe among a few tribal groups. I find that many people confuse communism with fascism and I think that is by design.
Are you saying that communists/communism won? I think you are confusing globocapitalism/imperialism with communism, which has never existed as it was posited by Marx/Engels except maybe among a few tribal groups. I find that many people confuse communism with fascism and I think that is by design.
You implied that the "red under every bed" was a scare tactic. You should read Whitaker Chambers "Witness" and the Venona Tapes. The FDR administration had dozens (if not more) literal Soviet spies. This is not even disputable anymore. Tailgunner Joe was not wrong about the Soviet threat--as was obviously made clear with their hegemonic designs that only began to collapse in 1989.
Now, nobody would argue that anything like Marxist-Hegelian communism is ascending currently. The collectivist impulse is a subterfuge employed to imbue our young with emotionally attractive notions--and, importantly, to teach that capitalism is evil. These young people are truly useful idiots for all manner of corrupt and powerful tyrants. What I am saying is that it was a communist-inspired anti-capitalist playbook that served as the guide for undermining the capitalist western powers.
You are, of course, familiar with the Lenin quote, "Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." We've given him 60 years now.
Do you see yourself as a capitalist? I don't know you so maybe you are, but to be a capitalist one must control wealth and capital. Communism (the control of the means of production by the workers who produce) is many times confused with communitarianism, a rather pernicious "woke" ideology that is prevasive today that posits no one should "own" anything. But those telling us "you will own nothing and you will be happy" don't tell you that THEY will own everything and rent it out to you if you comply with their orders. That is a neo-feudal fascism, not communism, and is the result of global hegemonic capitalism that is in the process of resetting itself now..
"Neo-feudal fascism" is as good a term as any for what's going on today. We've reached at least one order of magnitude above what we used to call crony capitalism. Only the barest of a fig leaf of capitalism remains. As I said, communism is nothing more than a tool to inspire mal-educated idiots to tear down what they could never build. All this is done at the behest of rapacious lords atop the heap whose wealth can insulate them from the chaos. Wokeness is nothing more than another tool to foment strife between the groups who are being exploited--and to provide a raison d'etre for the lesser 'elites' who manage things.
Again confusing "wokeness" which I would also call communitarianism (putting the "greater good" or the good--- according to a top down authority-- of the community before the sovereign individual) with communism, which is really only about workers controlling the means of production in an economy. It is this wokeness or communitarianism that has people tearing down statues as if that will get us to equality and rid us of racism or sexism or whatever ism they consider "evil." Marx posited that communism would be reached when the state itself withered away because there was no need for people to be governed and there would be no top down government. Of course we have never seen that and do not know how or if it would work...China is capitalist with a socialist facade, Russia is straight up capitalist and even Cuba which is the closest to actual socialism has never disposed of its top down government) Capitalism has moved way beyond cronyism to corporate capitalism and the Italian brand of fascism, when the government is controlled by the corporations...when corporations govern. And today, the INTERNATIONAL corporations have more wealth and control than nation states. Communism is not a tool. It is an ideology, a theory that has never been put into practice in an industrialized nation. If there are billionaires and if there is a top down government it is NOT communism as Marx theorized. I am not an expert on Marx by any means, but I have read enough and been involved in discussion groups around Marx's theories to know that woke-ism is not the communism Marx posited. It's beginning to look like he was missing something in his theory. however..maybe he did not foresee the technology we have today and the experiments in brainwashing that have been at the forefront of the 20th century. You hit the nail on head though about liberal "woke" ideology now being used to divide people instead of unite us. Funny how easy it was to flip the left (who were supposed to be struggling for equality and power for the people) to become totalitarians and side with the very corporate entities (Big Pharma and the deep state), they said they were fighting against in the past. Yep, it's been a real shit show.
A brilliant exchange, Lawrence and Wendy. Couldn't have said any better if I tried -- and believe me, I have. To much frustration. Relocated from the Left Coast to an ancestral rural redoubt in far western Germany twenty years ago. As such, the primary subject dominating my mental space over the last two years has been evaluating my choice of a Joycean strategy of "silence, exile and cunning" against our rate of descent down the slippery slope of political policy and action here on the Continent. To wit : how will the fully captured European nations enforce the mandates, facing an unwilling population of millions...? It's not like they can incarcerate the lot of us.
Those of us who are resisters here in the US are watching Germany and the rest of Europe very carefully. Australia of course is the ground zero poster child for the totalitarian launch, with New Zealand and Austria in close running. Mandates are in effect in New York but we expect they will roll out in California and the rest of the West Coast. Your question is the question of the day...how will the powers respond to unwilling populations? But if Australia is the test case, we can expect national guard and even army to be called upon. Here in the US, FEMA has already set up camps, of course it was under the guise of aiding those displaced by natural disasters, but we have already heard them being offered for quarantining anti-vaxxers and those who test positive for covid. Being in germany, I find it odd that you can wonder how they can incarcerate the "lot of 'us'" since the remains of mass incarceration still exists there as it does in California, where Japanese Americans once were rounded up and their property seized. Each of us must make a choice and we need each other more than ever. I will share a song with you that fits our situation, I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWPjWh_EwBo
Reading all this, and living in Australia, I'm not sure how people are going to take being locked up again.
Just on the weekend my family & I were at a large park in Canberra and we did not see ONE person playing on their phone! People were all talking with each other, playing with their kids and basically connecting with people. This is not how it normally is!!! And this is a city that is like 97% double vaxxed or something; they all willingly rolled up their sleeves. But I think judging by the quiet determination to 'have a nice day out' that we witnessed, people are not going to take further restrictions on their freedom lying down. Even rallies are now regularly occurring all over the country (finally!).
It's lovely hearing people say things about their masks like "I hate these things!" and whipping them off when they come into my treatment room, but the part that concerns me greatly is their reply after I say "So don't wear them! Do you see any police around here?". The usual reply is along the lines of "But you're MEANT to wear them" - and they only don't wear one out of my room if there's no-one in the waiting room.
So perhaps you are right Wendy, I DO live in the Stupid Country. I don't agree with ANY of this covid crap (obviously!!!), but even when you speak logic to most people, they still want to do what is 'right' by government standards, but not what is right by ethical (or even scientific) standards - or even their OWN standards. It's like almost everyone has been brainwashed to think 'I swear allegiance to the government of Australia' - regardless of who the government actually IS! Talk about a broken system.
So, aside from our planned move to northern NSW early next year, where would you suggest people move to in the world?! It sounds like our future is going to be severely limited in Australia (or NZ...or Germany/Austria...) if this totalitarian structure continues...but I do wonder, where MIGHT be safe not just now, but in the future...? Too bad I don't gamble for a living; perhaps I'd have better luck figuring out the answer to this one!!! :-D
I'm still hopeful that we can sort the bastards out right here... the thing about Oz is that the people tend to ignore the government as much as possible and go along with "the rules", for the most part -- but on the flip side, when people DO actually start demanding something (or even polling heavily in favour of it), governments have tended to go along with that. Even better would be if people continue to organise locally and actually elect representatives who can be trusted to stand up against this sort of thing in future.
I do not think any of us can vote our way out of this. Nations are not in control anymore it seems and are following orders from the many headed hydra of Globocap, which includes the WHO and CDC and NATO. world policy is discussed by billionaires that meet regularly to launch plans for controlling the world's people, economies, currency, trade, medical policy. I am not sure why Australia and NZ was chosen by the elites to be the poster child for the clamp down but I listened to Bill Gates early on in March 2020 and he said "Keep your eyes on Australia" and then went on to say "If the first pandemic wave doesn't get your attention this next one will." Here is a story from 2020 from Australia regarding Gates and Scott Morrison. https://tottnews.com/2020/10/08/bill-gates-praises-australia/ I do not think Australians are any more compliant than many other European nations. And, as far as finding a safer place in the world to live (safer from totalitarian tyranny) I'm not sure there is a place except off grid somewhere and I am not prepared nor young enough to survive the elements. The technology to track and trace people has reached the point that this global pandemic was successful and why it has worked so well. If you in Australia can stand up to the authorities, it will give us hope and impetus to do the same. Sorry about all the vaccinating. What have you heard about adverse events in your country? There is some evidence that adverse events have been tracked to specific batches of vaccine and not sure if any of those were distributed in Australia. Are they pushing the boosters there now? I heard someone in the UK say that it's probable that boosters will "be needed" every three months to keep us with variants.
Yep, the government has gone so far as to recently post out letters to everyone urging us all to get boosters ASAP. And people have been getting them, though some are starting to ask questions ("My friend had the injections but still got COVID anyway", and so on). I don't have any hard data on adverse events, only anecdotal things of people dying suddenly and unexpectedly but most of them I don't know well enough to know for certain if they had the vax (though they probably did) or if there was a different known cause of death.
I'm not fully sold on the conspiracy theory of COVID - I totally believe our government is capable of being evil and stupid without a global conspiracy. I'm also not completely ruling out a conspiracy, but I do strongly believe that if there IS such a conspiracy, they are not in control anywhere near as much as they want you to think they are. Ditch the corrupt leadership and get the right people in, and suddenly the would-be conspirators will have a big problem on their hands.
Guttermouth: Communism is socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes. This does not mean that people will not own anything. It applies only to the means of production of resources and goods. So once communism is acheived, a top down government withers away. "Withering away of the state" was coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with realization of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law....communism will have been reached. Therefore, it has never been successful. Communism as Marx posited never came about. Is that because the countries that had successful socialist revolutions were/are under constant threat from super powers in the US and allies? We need only look at Cuba, Vietnam, Nicaragua and wonder how the revolution might have progressed if they were not constantly having to protect themselves from outside hostile forces and deal with crippling sanctions in trade and so forth.
Except that EVERYTHING is a means of production of some good or other, which means that in fact people WILL end up not owning anything, unless you explicitly exempt certain classes of property from "common ownership".
You car? Means of production of transport services, farming, etc. It now belongs to the State, comrade.
Your kitchen? Means of production of baked goods. Also belong to the State.
Your phone? Can be used to produce movies - digital goods, comrade! Phone now belong to the State.
See what I mean?
"Communal ownership" only works when it is ACTUALLY a community, and the goods are owned by individuals who voluntarily share -- "yeah mate, you can borrow my chainsaw, you don't mind if I nick your barbie next sunday when the family's over?"
I do have a question...what and who is the STATE you reference? Again, in the theory of communism (which no country has been able to achieve) the state itself withers away and the people govern themselves. So no I don't see what you mean. We have not had a socialist revolution. The proletariate has not seized control of the means of production. These all must happen before a revolutionary government works towards communism. This idea that in the future "you will own nothing and you will be happy" that is coming from the World Economic Forum and the neoliberal uber-capitaist class is not communism. But if you want to believe it is, fine. I am not arguing for communism so your use of "comrade" in an attempt to demean what I am saying is misplaced. I am simply correcting your misconception of what Marx's theory of communism is. You cannot say what would happen since no one has completely carried out the experiment. But if we the people overthrew the government and the workers took over the board rooms of the factories they work in, it would be up to the workers to hammer out a path forward without top down authority. I wonder if we the people are up to governing ourselves or if we secretly want someone to tell us what to do. What do you think?
Are you saying that communists/communism won? I think you are confusing globocapitalism/imperialism with communism, which has never existed as it was posited by Marx/Engels except maybe among a few tribal groups. I find that many people confuse communism with fascism and I think that is by design.
You implied that the "red under every bed" was a scare tactic. You should read Whitaker Chambers "Witness" and the Venona Tapes. The FDR administration had dozens (if not more) literal Soviet spies. This is not even disputable anymore. Tailgunner Joe was not wrong about the Soviet threat--as was obviously made clear with their hegemonic designs that only began to collapse in 1989.
Now, nobody would argue that anything like Marxist-Hegelian communism is ascending currently. The collectivist impulse is a subterfuge employed to imbue our young with emotionally attractive notions--and, importantly, to teach that capitalism is evil. These young people are truly useful idiots for all manner of corrupt and powerful tyrants. What I am saying is that it was a communist-inspired anti-capitalist playbook that served as the guide for undermining the capitalist western powers.
You are, of course, familiar with the Lenin quote, "Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." We've given him 60 years now.
Do you see yourself as a capitalist? I don't know you so maybe you are, but to be a capitalist one must control wealth and capital. Communism (the control of the means of production by the workers who produce) is many times confused with communitarianism, a rather pernicious "woke" ideology that is prevasive today that posits no one should "own" anything. But those telling us "you will own nothing and you will be happy" don't tell you that THEY will own everything and rent it out to you if you comply with their orders. That is a neo-feudal fascism, not communism, and is the result of global hegemonic capitalism that is in the process of resetting itself now..
"Neo-feudal fascism" is as good a term as any for what's going on today. We've reached at least one order of magnitude above what we used to call crony capitalism. Only the barest of a fig leaf of capitalism remains. As I said, communism is nothing more than a tool to inspire mal-educated idiots to tear down what they could never build. All this is done at the behest of rapacious lords atop the heap whose wealth can insulate them from the chaos. Wokeness is nothing more than another tool to foment strife between the groups who are being exploited--and to provide a raison d'etre for the lesser 'elites' who manage things.
Again confusing "wokeness" which I would also call communitarianism (putting the "greater good" or the good--- according to a top down authority-- of the community before the sovereign individual) with communism, which is really only about workers controlling the means of production in an economy. It is this wokeness or communitarianism that has people tearing down statues as if that will get us to equality and rid us of racism or sexism or whatever ism they consider "evil." Marx posited that communism would be reached when the state itself withered away because there was no need for people to be governed and there would be no top down government. Of course we have never seen that and do not know how or if it would work...China is capitalist with a socialist facade, Russia is straight up capitalist and even Cuba which is the closest to actual socialism has never disposed of its top down government) Capitalism has moved way beyond cronyism to corporate capitalism and the Italian brand of fascism, when the government is controlled by the corporations...when corporations govern. And today, the INTERNATIONAL corporations have more wealth and control than nation states. Communism is not a tool. It is an ideology, a theory that has never been put into practice in an industrialized nation. If there are billionaires and if there is a top down government it is NOT communism as Marx theorized. I am not an expert on Marx by any means, but I have read enough and been involved in discussion groups around Marx's theories to know that woke-ism is not the communism Marx posited. It's beginning to look like he was missing something in his theory. however..maybe he did not foresee the technology we have today and the experiments in brainwashing that have been at the forefront of the 20th century. You hit the nail on head though about liberal "woke" ideology now being used to divide people instead of unite us. Funny how easy it was to flip the left (who were supposed to be struggling for equality and power for the people) to become totalitarians and side with the very corporate entities (Big Pharma and the deep state), they said they were fighting against in the past. Yep, it's been a real shit show.
A brilliant exchange, Lawrence and Wendy. Couldn't have said any better if I tried -- and believe me, I have. To much frustration. Relocated from the Left Coast to an ancestral rural redoubt in far western Germany twenty years ago. As such, the primary subject dominating my mental space over the last two years has been evaluating my choice of a Joycean strategy of "silence, exile and cunning" against our rate of descent down the slippery slope of political policy and action here on the Continent. To wit : how will the fully captured European nations enforce the mandates, facing an unwilling population of millions...? It's not like they can incarcerate the lot of us.
Those of us who are resisters here in the US are watching Germany and the rest of Europe very carefully. Australia of course is the ground zero poster child for the totalitarian launch, with New Zealand and Austria in close running. Mandates are in effect in New York but we expect they will roll out in California and the rest of the West Coast. Your question is the question of the day...how will the powers respond to unwilling populations? But if Australia is the test case, we can expect national guard and even army to be called upon. Here in the US, FEMA has already set up camps, of course it was under the guise of aiding those displaced by natural disasters, but we have already heard them being offered for quarantining anti-vaxxers and those who test positive for covid. Being in germany, I find it odd that you can wonder how they can incarcerate the "lot of 'us'" since the remains of mass incarceration still exists there as it does in California, where Japanese Americans once were rounded up and their property seized. Each of us must make a choice and we need each other more than ever. I will share a song with you that fits our situation, I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWPjWh_EwBo
Reading all this, and living in Australia, I'm not sure how people are going to take being locked up again.
Just on the weekend my family & I were at a large park in Canberra and we did not see ONE person playing on their phone! People were all talking with each other, playing with their kids and basically connecting with people. This is not how it normally is!!! And this is a city that is like 97% double vaxxed or something; they all willingly rolled up their sleeves. But I think judging by the quiet determination to 'have a nice day out' that we witnessed, people are not going to take further restrictions on their freedom lying down. Even rallies are now regularly occurring all over the country (finally!).
It's lovely hearing people say things about their masks like "I hate these things!" and whipping them off when they come into my treatment room, but the part that concerns me greatly is their reply after I say "So don't wear them! Do you see any police around here?". The usual reply is along the lines of "But you're MEANT to wear them" - and they only don't wear one out of my room if there's no-one in the waiting room.
So perhaps you are right Wendy, I DO live in the Stupid Country. I don't agree with ANY of this covid crap (obviously!!!), but even when you speak logic to most people, they still want to do what is 'right' by government standards, but not what is right by ethical (or even scientific) standards - or even their OWN standards. It's like almost everyone has been brainwashed to think 'I swear allegiance to the government of Australia' - regardless of who the government actually IS! Talk about a broken system.
So, aside from our planned move to northern NSW early next year, where would you suggest people move to in the world?! It sounds like our future is going to be severely limited in Australia (or NZ...or Germany/Austria...) if this totalitarian structure continues...but I do wonder, where MIGHT be safe not just now, but in the future...? Too bad I don't gamble for a living; perhaps I'd have better luck figuring out the answer to this one!!! :-D
I'm still hopeful that we can sort the bastards out right here... the thing about Oz is that the people tend to ignore the government as much as possible and go along with "the rules", for the most part -- but on the flip side, when people DO actually start demanding something (or even polling heavily in favour of it), governments have tended to go along with that. Even better would be if people continue to organise locally and actually elect representatives who can be trusted to stand up against this sort of thing in future.
I do not think any of us can vote our way out of this. Nations are not in control anymore it seems and are following orders from the many headed hydra of Globocap, which includes the WHO and CDC and NATO. world policy is discussed by billionaires that meet regularly to launch plans for controlling the world's people, economies, currency, trade, medical policy. I am not sure why Australia and NZ was chosen by the elites to be the poster child for the clamp down but I listened to Bill Gates early on in March 2020 and he said "Keep your eyes on Australia" and then went on to say "If the first pandemic wave doesn't get your attention this next one will." Here is a story from 2020 from Australia regarding Gates and Scott Morrison. https://tottnews.com/2020/10/08/bill-gates-praises-australia/ I do not think Australians are any more compliant than many other European nations. And, as far as finding a safer place in the world to live (safer from totalitarian tyranny) I'm not sure there is a place except off grid somewhere and I am not prepared nor young enough to survive the elements. The technology to track and trace people has reached the point that this global pandemic was successful and why it has worked so well. If you in Australia can stand up to the authorities, it will give us hope and impetus to do the same. Sorry about all the vaccinating. What have you heard about adverse events in your country? There is some evidence that adverse events have been tracked to specific batches of vaccine and not sure if any of those were distributed in Australia. Are they pushing the boosters there now? I heard someone in the UK say that it's probable that boosters will "be needed" every three months to keep us with variants.
Yep, the government has gone so far as to recently post out letters to everyone urging us all to get boosters ASAP. And people have been getting them, though some are starting to ask questions ("My friend had the injections but still got COVID anyway", and so on). I don't have any hard data on adverse events, only anecdotal things of people dying suddenly and unexpectedly but most of them I don't know well enough to know for certain if they had the vax (though they probably did) or if there was a different known cause of death.
I'm not fully sold on the conspiracy theory of COVID - I totally believe our government is capable of being evil and stupid without a global conspiracy. I'm also not completely ruling out a conspiracy, but I do strongly believe that if there IS such a conspiracy, they are not in control anywhere near as much as they want you to think they are. Ditch the corrupt leadership and get the right people in, and suddenly the would-be conspirators will have a big problem on their hands.
I hope you have read Diana WestтАЩs AMERICAN betrayal.
Yes, and The Red Thread
Excellent.
Who cares? Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Fascism, does the difference really matter when you consider the end result?
Guttermouth: Communism is socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes. This does not mean that people will not own anything. It applies only to the means of production of resources and goods. So once communism is acheived, a top down government withers away. "Withering away of the state" was coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with realization of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law....communism will have been reached. Therefore, it has never been successful. Communism as Marx posited never came about. Is that because the countries that had successful socialist revolutions were/are under constant threat from super powers in the US and allies? We need only look at Cuba, Vietnam, Nicaragua and wonder how the revolution might have progressed if they were not constantly having to protect themselves from outside hostile forces and deal with crippling sanctions in trade and so forth.
Except that EVERYTHING is a means of production of some good or other, which means that in fact people WILL end up not owning anything, unless you explicitly exempt certain classes of property from "common ownership".
You car? Means of production of transport services, farming, etc. It now belongs to the State, comrade.
Your kitchen? Means of production of baked goods. Also belong to the State.
Your phone? Can be used to produce movies - digital goods, comrade! Phone now belong to the State.
See what I mean?
"Communal ownership" only works when it is ACTUALLY a community, and the goods are owned by individuals who voluntarily share -- "yeah mate, you can borrow my chainsaw, you don't mind if I nick your barbie next sunday when the family's over?"
I do have a question...what and who is the STATE you reference? Again, in the theory of communism (which no country has been able to achieve) the state itself withers away and the people govern themselves. So no I don't see what you mean. We have not had a socialist revolution. The proletariate has not seized control of the means of production. These all must happen before a revolutionary government works towards communism. This idea that in the future "you will own nothing and you will be happy" that is coming from the World Economic Forum and the neoliberal uber-capitaist class is not communism. But if you want to believe it is, fine. I am not arguing for communism so your use of "comrade" in an attempt to demean what I am saying is misplaced. I am simply correcting your misconception of what Marx's theory of communism is. You cannot say what would happen since no one has completely carried out the experiment. But if we the people overthrew the government and the workers took over the board rooms of the factories they work in, it would be up to the workers to hammer out a path forward without top down authority. I wonder if we the people are up to governing ourselves or if we secretly want someone to tell us what to do. What do you think?
You know, I think you are right. In all cases, the common man usually is the one who suffers or dies, not the elites.
It matters within the narrative to understand the differences as to how we are being propagandized
Authoritarians gonna authoritarian. Doesn't matter which excuse they use as both use the same propaganda & enforcement tactics.
So what you're saying is, real communism has never been tried?