Last night I encountered such a serious case of Media-Induced Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am still reeling. If you didn't know the guy is a serial rapist, racist (of course) and likes to put children in cages. And "everyone who does not absolutely hate him is of questionable morals". The mere mention of his name sends this person i…
Last night I encountered such a serious case of Media-Induced Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am still reeling. If you didn't know the guy is a serial rapist, racist (of course) and likes to put children in cages. And "everyone who does not absolutely hate him is of questionable morals". The mere mention of his name sends this person into a mouth-foaming hysterical fit. Couldn't get a word in. I honestly do not know what sort of treatment would make a dent here... Maybe some TDS cases are simply too far gone and we need to focus on helping the less affected ones?
And you, my dear Jane, appear to be hiding an ad behind your statement, "𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗴𝗹𝗼𝗯𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘀𝘁𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝗲𝘄 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗹𝗱 𝗼𝗿𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗽𝘂𝘁𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗠𝗥𝗡𝗔 𝘃𝗮𝘅 𝗶𝗻 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗳𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗱𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗻𝗼𝘄." If I click on the link in that statement, I get an ad for an e-book about foods that can be stored long-term. I'll resist clicking the 'Report' button, since you probably know that you can delete your ad link, and my response will disappear along with it.
Just a little hint to you that you were ever so gently warned about such blatant advertising of your product in the middle of a conversation.
I assume you live in the US, dear jane. Apologies if I'm wrong. But if you do and you eat 'organic' food - well, I have to laugh. The US government controls 'organic' food standards. Oh, my, isn't that a minefield of real conversation that we could open up.
If you are tempted to reply to this message, perhaps you could tell us whether you discuss 'organic food' in the book that you are advertising with the link you share in your reply to my post. Thanks, dear jane.
As a person who is 'mentally ill,' I would like to caution you about tarring all of us who are 'insane' with that 'need for treatment' brush. I do not intend to be 'treated' for my mental illness so that I can do a better job of conforming to consensus reality, especially the consensus reality that said I must submit to the covid vaccine 'for the good of others.'
Everyone alive, at least here in the West, has grown up in a culture with serious problems. Those problems have contributed greatly to the mental health problems afflicting a significant proportion of the population. Some of us have held onto our sanity despite displaying symptoms of mental illness. I don't wish to be 'celebrated' but a little less derision would be nice.
We are socialized into the culture into which we chance to be born. If we are born into a culture where cannibalism and child sacrifice are normal behaviors, we would be diagnosed as being possessed by an evil spirit by the Shaman, and be ostracized and shunned, if we failed to conform. The problem isn't individuals, rather the fucked up societies into which we are born.
I can't disagree. However, I am put in mind of something a friend once said to me. I was talking about a book I'd read that explored some indigenous culture - and I do not remember which one. He said that I shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of their culture. I replied that we shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of our culture either. Considering what I see when I look I around me - at least virtually - I have few illusions about the culture I live in.
It's strange though that when I talk to people in person I find people are still fairly sane, at least now that the covid madness has died down here in the UK. I have no close friends or family left in my life, so I only talk to strangers I meet in passing. So maybe that's a bad sample to work with. But I've found there are lots of people who will happily talk to an odd stranger like me. I've had people pour out their hopes, dreams, and fears in brief conversations. I try to accept it all with love, or at least as much love as this person can manage without getting too tired. Best wishes.
If by serious illness, you mean people who are institutionalised, happily I never have been. Unfortunately, large numbers of people take psychotropic drugs because 'modern medicine' can't seem to offer them other means of support.
I'd have to think about it some more, but I would probably put the boundaries of serious mental illness somewhere around the line of people with painful delusions that lead them to hurt themselves and sometimes others. The rest of us are just trying to cope in a messed up world.
I'm fortunate. I've found ways to live quite a satisfying life - even a happy one - despite the fact that I rarely interact with other people in person for more than a couple of minutes a day - I talk to strangers when I go out for walks or when I ride the train here in the UK. But it's taken a lot of thoughtful reflection for me to build that place for myself in my mind. Best wishes.
My husband recently had the same encounter with a client who sent a nasty TDS email. (He actually has quite a few TDS clients). That client later called and apologized for his behavior but not his beliefs! He listed all the evil talking points as usual but when my husband would say common sense things like, “do you believe in open borders, do you believe in bail reform do you believe in funding foreign wars” the answers are of course always No! But “Orange Man Bad” is the best mind game trick our deep state has ever invented!
I called out a guy I sing with because he was starting to sling the "Nazi" term ... at his fellow singers. People he knew and encountered weekly and was quite aware that they were also just people who had a different opinion. At least at the time he was able to step back and see that he had crossed a line and stepped back for some real evaluation. He kind of realized that people having different political opinions did not automatically make them evil. He passed away before 2020 hit and was overall a nice guy, but the echo chamber can really rile folk up on all sides. :(
and if they totally win , they will turn on themselves. Never politically correct enough, always behind on the latest thing, so must be "corrected" humiliated, othered, cancelled.
This is how it goes with all leftist collectivist movements, they always start out as “we’re doing it for the oppressed” and always ends up “well sure all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” The issue with making a fetish of being “marginalized” is that the most marginal then inevitably rise to the top of the hierarchy, with predictable consequences.
We were actually hoping that they would turn on themselves before they "totally win."
There is an interesting conversation between Tom Mazarro and Odessa on Rebel News wherein he describes the destructive behaviour of some of the Freedom Convoy "leaders."
Sadly, it would be challenging to insert sane people into the woke leadership.
Rosemary, you might want to go back and read what the gato said. I think you missed a bit of it. Projection can come from any direction.
You said 'Liberals...are about hate.' I am a liberal person. I do not make a practice of hating other people. I gave up on the 'left/right' spectrum a while back. I am not interested in creating 'hateful angry people.'
Please consider re-reading the piece and then trying to re-evaluate your position.
I'm glad you spoke up. Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." I call them "regressive." They abandoned liberalism years (perhaps even decades) ago. The regressives are driving true liberals out of the democrat party.
I don't have any problem with you labelling people you don't like as 'regressive.' If you're into labelling, well, who I am to tell you not to do that?
I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing? Personally, I'm at a stage in my life where I reject all labels for myself and for others. I'm trying to find activities that I find more productive.
I write long and sometimes fairly pedantic responses to posts here on Substack. I try to respond in a thought-filled manner, exploring issues raised, even casually.
Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'
I grew up in the 1960s. People used to say that 'the personal is political.' And boy is that true. Best wishes.
"I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing?"
Why are you asking *me* this question? I've never called *anyone* either of those things.
"Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'"
This is an odd thing for you to say. Aren't *you* labeling *me* as a 'hateful person who dehumanizes other people'?
Interesting question. Direct quote from you: "Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." Apologies if you think I consider you 'hateful.' I don't mean to give that impression. I don't think that about you.
I was trying to say that labelling others as 'hateful' seems to lead people down a slippery slope that leads to dehumanisation.
Do you not think that it's hateful to dehumanize people? The people I label 'regressive' are people that dehumanize others. They call people who have a different political opinion 'nazis', 'racists', etc. Those labels are a LOT more dehumanizing than 'regressive', and I can't help but regard the abuse of such extreme labels as hateful. That is why I call them 'regressive'. I call them that because of their *behavior,* not because I disagree with them politically.
If it were just a matter of a difference of opinion, the labels I would use for them are the ones they apply to themselves. I have no issues with people I disagree with who are otherwise decent people. Oops, there, I just labeled some people I disagree with as 'decent'. Do you have an issue with THAT label? People *will* have labels, they'll have labels they apply to themselves and labels other people apply to them. It's a normal, human behavior to label people.
It is important not to conflate “liberals” with “progressives”, as there is a huge difference. Actual liberals (like say the liberals of the ‘60s and ‘70s) believe in free speech, are anti-war, are skeptical of the government, tolerant of opposing views and in general believe in reason, logic and the ideals of the Enlightenment. George Carlin is a good example of the type. Progressives on the other hand wear the language of liberalism as a skin suit to fool the rubes into believing they are on the same side, but in reality progressivism is almost completely opposite to liberalism — progressives hate free speech, seem to love war (at least when directed to by the government), uncritically swallow any propaganda the government puts out there and in general believe in things like “lived experience” (aka, “unfalsifiable personal anecdotes”) and that reality is socially constructed. Not the same at all, and at a bare minimum people should stop calling these authoritarian leftists “liberals”.
You may or may not be familiar with Progressive Era of the early 20th century in the US. I just skimmed the Wikipedia article, and it seems like a fair representation of the basic issues - and I am very careful to not blindly trust Wikipedia. I tried, unsuccessfully, to find a book I read a few years ago about that era. My eyes were opened to at least recognising that weasel words are all around us.
Personally, I tend to respond to posts with words like 'liberal,' 'progressive' and the like because I am now at the point where I reject the use of any labels, since they are prone to divide people.
I prefer to explore issues and try to think about how we can move forward as human beings, rather than getting hung up in endless finger-pointing situations where we say 'You bad' - 'No you bad' - 'No you really bad'.
I'm 68. I don't have many years of life left. I want to nudge human beings - and maybe even the AI who is reading what we write. I want to nudge us toward talking to each other instead of labelling each other. So I write long-winded, thought-filled replies.
I was fortunate to see George Carlin in 1980 at a theatre in Dayton, Ohio. I laughed and found him fascinating. I don't remember a single word he said, but maybe I am channelling just a little bit of that dear man's spirit when I slowly and methodically analyse posts on Substack.
You seem rather certain that you know what progressives and liberals are all about. I've lived long enough to have seen the definition of both those words - and many others change over and over. It certainly can be satisfying to let your emotions express themselves in words like hate and love and propaganda. I just let the words wash over me, like so many other words I've seen.
I'll admit that I even used to indulge in that kind of language myself. But I like to think that as we grow older - if we are lucky enough to do so - we become wiser. Maybe we do. Maybe we don't
That's my 'lived experience,' Coco McShevitz. One thing that our culture has lost is respect for the wisdom of our elders. Now, our culture, - our shared, socially constructed reality that exists in our minds - our culture is pretty screwed up, so some of our elders - and our youngers - spout a bunch of nonsense. Oh, dear. Maybe I'm one of the elders spouting nonsense. I best be quiet now. I hope I addressed enough of what you said that you 'feel heard.' Best wishes.
we are not the liberals wearing weird cry baby t shirts or ones with logos and rainbows
and forcing and eagerly accepting leftist ideals. they are not speaking up against their party, really not even the slightest bit more than the conservatives.
okay, SORRY I do understand what you are sensitive about.
How ever when I am speaking about "these people" and
The Left, I am not talking about us normal American people living our happy lives being conservative or liberal.
I am speaking specifically, pointing to these people that gaslight and are on our tvs, in the "news" in public forums, spouting their hate. They are "Obama's Army". I dislike them. Obama spoke in 2008 about having an Army. This is what he wanted
This is what I struggled with for years with an ex wife.she had a sharp tounge, a terrific grasp of language, a mind incapable of logical thought, and an extremely fragile ego.
To disagree with her on any subject was a personal attack on her very being.
I just checked out Karen's substack. Ooooh she is on fire and has so many many many subscribers to read her words of wisdom.
That said, every liberal I know is like this. Some are very outspoken and rattle off to any one at any opportunity. The other half just wants to sit down and obey
there certainly is no shortage of these virtue signaling backrub circles where everyone loudly proclaims allegiance to the current orthodoxy, is there?
Agree and yet, we need to try. I’m getting furious with those who want 4 more years of “this”. There’s no way to opt out if Harris wins. You’re describing my neighborhood except for a few. Just ordered my yard signs.
These people were probably already mentally ill. It doesn’t take much to push a borderline personality disorder who watches TV all day completely over the edge. They never had any rational thought to begin with, and they already had a very tenuous grasp on reality anyway. I have a family member that is as you say- and they are a high functioning borderline schizophrenic who always had a difficult time with reality before all this. The Fourth Estate is morally bankrupt and has driven people to absolute madness.
If they are schizophrenic what can you do for them? They are like someone out to sea, succumbing to the undertow of their disease, and occasionally they tread water and are lucid, but other times their mash up of reality/fantasy takes over and you hear snippets of the Bible, Star Trek reruns, and their central role in all of history.
Problem is, many of the worst of these people are not necessarily BPD, or watch TV all day; in fact, they're often very well 'educated', hold mid-high positions in various professions (but notably academia), and are extremely busy people. In fact, I think their busy-ness and the specialisation within their chosen field (and the narrowness of scope that brings), and the lack of time to read widely has caused them to become ignorant about much outside of their chosen fields - to seem 'informed' about what is going on in the world they latch on to whatever is spoon-fed to them by their most popular liberal news source (as well as the Guardian :) ) these are the worst because they think of themselves as so smart and well-regarded within their field, the idea that they are broadly ignorant is too much for them.
I think TDS is a form of narcissism where the person demanding we comply with their thinking is the best, the smartest, the all-knowing. Narcissism and hoarding are the only two mental disorders that cannot be successfully treated. So we have that.
The one thing that occurs to me (depending on your own relationship with this person, what they think of you personally), would be to then ask: ok, so you are describing me as a person of questionable morals, and I assume even worse if I actually support the guy. What, outside of Trump leads you to this conclusion about me? Do you think I believe all the things by which you described Trump, and yet choose to support him anyway? What about me would lead you to think that I would dismiss lightly such allegations?
Scapegoating is the same concept, maybe just a secondary phase. Projecting is assigning one's inner shadows to another. Scapegoating is then wanting to destroy that person.
That's correct. It's a ultimately psychological coping mechanism. Breaking through to the person is similar to getting a person to admit to an addiction.
It is my favorite thing about Trump. Their reaction. Covid was similar. You get to see who the real crazies, “good Germans”, and everyone else incapable of original thought. Also, always a good time to cull relationships:)
Trump and Covid are reacting against the same thing, and it's perception vs. reality. They are silent when you explain to them that "warp speed" was approved by Trump. .
No treatment would work. You'd have to have friends who tell you the truth and engage you in real conversations about important ideas. A precursor to that is that you'd have to be willing to, and want to have friends who have different ideas and who you respect enough to engage with regarding those ideas.
My guess is that people like this have none of that.
This is the openness that Jordan Peterson talks about and I don't think these 'liberals' actually have an iota of that.
For them it’s too much of a risk to have friends with opposite views. They have to protect their mental health and Joy, they say. Life is too short to be around negative people they will say. They can’t handle the anger and anxiety caused “by them”, (sadly it’s caused by their own reactions and their own lack of critical thinking and lack of ability to have thoughtful discussions, not by those who believe differently than them.)
I sort of understand how hard it is to be around someone who endlessly parrots the preferred narrative that opposes what I’m thinking/believing, and who doesn’t stop to thoughtfully consider something I say. Their only goal is to be right in the discussion and shove down my throat what’s wrong with my views without ever really discussing what I actually said. At some point I do need to get away from that negative energy. So then I wonder if that’s how they feel talking to me. How can I rephrase my views into questions that provoke new lines of thought instead? I see it modeled by some of you and I’m grateful for that. It’s hard for me. I’ve never learned that skill and I think it’s time I learn to develop it.
But I’m not parroting preferred narratives either, I’m actually presenting my own original thoughts. So when I’m accused of being brainwashed by Trump b.s., as I often am in comments sections, it’s confusing. It’s as if my views can only be possible through brainwashing. Well we certainly accuse them of that same thing. Hmmm
But I DO see a difference, I just don’t know how to articulate it. I guess I can tell when I’m talking to someone that does not ever want to change how they think no matter what is said, and it’s not worth my time. Those are the people I walk away from.
But recently someone pointed out negative views about Trump and his past “failures”, and while it bothered me I am allowing myself to consider his views and think about if and how it would ever affect his presidency. I found myself feeling that at this point given the two choices we have that have a realistic chance of being elected, one is definitely more dangerous to our freedoms and to the constitution, and it’s not Trump. Therefore, any valid points about concerns over his past inactions are not worth discussing right now as it could sway people from voting for him and that’s a greater danger than anything about him is. But I’m willing to think more and discuss those points further AFTER he is in office. One would say that’s stupid because once he is in office you can’t get him out. Well - I wouldn’t want to. 😂 Harris or whoever the deep state wants in will ALWAYS be far worse than Trump, so no amount of opening my eyes to his faults and past sins are going to matter. He needs to win. Those among us who think they are all corrupt and voting for any of them is a loss are hurting this election deeply.
You have to have a real relationship to engage in a potentially tense discussion about important ideas. Creating the groundwork for that relationship takes time. The fact that a lot of people have been willing to write off previously (perceivedly) loved family members because of the political divide (which existed before but they weren't bothered about it as much because their 'betters' hadn't told them to focus their entire telos around it) shows just how much is required of that relationship. It requires honesty, commitment, intelligence, fairness, justice, and sanity.
You ain't gonna get that from a propaganda spouting comrade.
Last night I encountered such a serious case of Media-Induced Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am still reeling. If you didn't know the guy is a serial rapist, racist (of course) and likes to put children in cages. And "everyone who does not absolutely hate him is of questionable morals". The mere mention of his name sends this person into a mouth-foaming hysterical fit. Couldn't get a word in. I honestly do not know what sort of treatment would make a dent here... Maybe some TDS cases are simply too far gone and we need to focus on helping the less affected ones?
I really believe there is a tremendous amount of mental illness that is being celebrated rather than treated.
Gender ideology is the perfect (but not only) example of just that
And there is definitely a difference between 'gender ideology' and having a non-standard gender.
And you, my dear Jane, appear to be hiding an ad behind your statement, "𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗴𝗹𝗼𝗯𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘀𝘁𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝗲𝘄 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗹𝗱 𝗼𝗿𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗽𝘂𝘁𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗠𝗥𝗡𝗔 𝘃𝗮𝘅 𝗶𝗻 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗳𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗱𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗻𝗼𝘄." If I click on the link in that statement, I get an ad for an e-book about foods that can be stored long-term. I'll resist clicking the 'Report' button, since you probably know that you can delete your ad link, and my response will disappear along with it.
Just a little hint to you that you were ever so gently warned about such blatant advertising of your product in the middle of a conversation.
I assume you live in the US, dear jane. Apologies if I'm wrong. But if you do and you eat 'organic' food - well, I have to laugh. The US government controls 'organic' food standards. Oh, my, isn't that a minefield of real conversation that we could open up.
If you are tempted to reply to this message, perhaps you could tell us whether you discuss 'organic food' in the book that you are advertising with the link you share in your reply to my post. Thanks, dear jane.
As a person who is 'mentally ill,' I would like to caution you about tarring all of us who are 'insane' with that 'need for treatment' brush. I do not intend to be 'treated' for my mental illness so that I can do a better job of conforming to consensus reality, especially the consensus reality that said I must submit to the covid vaccine 'for the good of others.'
Everyone alive, at least here in the West, has grown up in a culture with serious problems. Those problems have contributed greatly to the mental health problems afflicting a significant proportion of the population. Some of us have held onto our sanity despite displaying symptoms of mental illness. I don't wish to be 'celebrated' but a little less derision would be nice.
We are socialized into the culture into which we chance to be born. If we are born into a culture where cannibalism and child sacrifice are normal behaviors, we would be diagnosed as being possessed by an evil spirit by the Shaman, and be ostracized and shunned, if we failed to conform. The problem isn't individuals, rather the fucked up societies into which we are born.
I can't disagree. However, I am put in mind of something a friend once said to me. I was talking about a book I'd read that explored some indigenous culture - and I do not remember which one. He said that I shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of their culture. I replied that we shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of our culture either. Considering what I see when I look I around me - at least virtually - I have few illusions about the culture I live in.
It's strange though that when I talk to people in person I find people are still fairly sane, at least now that the covid madness has died down here in the UK. I have no close friends or family left in my life, so I only talk to strangers I meet in passing. So maybe that's a bad sample to work with. But I've found there are lots of people who will happily talk to an odd stranger like me. I've had people pour out their hopes, dreams, and fears in brief conversations. I try to accept it all with love, or at least as much love as this person can manage without getting too tired. Best wishes.
Completely agree.
I am so sorry if I offended you. I understand that many are able live very normal, if painful , lives. I was referring to those with serious illness.
Don't worry. You haven't offended me.
If by serious illness, you mean people who are institutionalised, happily I never have been. Unfortunately, large numbers of people take psychotropic drugs because 'modern medicine' can't seem to offer them other means of support.
I'd have to think about it some more, but I would probably put the boundaries of serious mental illness somewhere around the line of people with painful delusions that lead them to hurt themselves and sometimes others. The rest of us are just trying to cope in a messed up world.
I'm fortunate. I've found ways to live quite a satisfying life - even a happy one - despite the fact that I rarely interact with other people in person for more than a couple of minutes a day - I talk to strangers when I go out for walks or when I ride the train here in the UK. But it's taken a lot of thoughtful reflection for me to build that place for myself in my mind. Best wishes.
"Living your truth!"
My husband recently had the same encounter with a client who sent a nasty TDS email. (He actually has quite a few TDS clients). That client later called and apologized for his behavior but not his beliefs! He listed all the evil talking points as usual but when my husband would say common sense things like, “do you believe in open borders, do you believe in bail reform do you believe in funding foreign wars” the answers are of course always No! But “Orange Man Bad” is the best mind game trick our deep state has ever invented!
I called out a guy I sing with because he was starting to sling the "Nazi" term ... at his fellow singers. People he knew and encountered weekly and was quite aware that they were also just people who had a different opinion. At least at the time he was able to step back and see that he had crossed a line and stepped back for some real evaluation. He kind of realized that people having different political opinions did not automatically make them evil. He passed away before 2020 hit and was overall a nice guy, but the echo chamber can really rile folk up on all sides. :(
30% of these people are very ill and will never recover.
At least!
the left destroys people
the ends justify the means?
They are a visual example of trampling on their followers for their own shabby designs.
Liberals are not about liberty, they are about hate. They create hateful angry people.
and if they totally win , they will turn on themselves. Never politically correct enough, always behind on the latest thing, so must be "corrected" humiliated, othered, cancelled.
Where can we sign up? Sounds delightful!
: )
This is how it goes with all leftist collectivist movements, they always start out as “we’re doing it for the oppressed” and always ends up “well sure all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” The issue with making a fetish of being “marginalized” is that the most marginal then inevitably rise to the top of the hierarchy, with predictable consequences.
We were actually hoping that they would turn on themselves before they "totally win."
There is an interesting conversation between Tom Mazarro and Odessa on Rebel News wherein he describes the destructive behaviour of some of the Freedom Convoy "leaders."
Sadly, it would be challenging to insert sane people into the woke leadership.
The woke leadership is immune to sane. We would have to replace the leadership completely and guard against the creeping cretinism back in.
And yet they claim the opposite. They're "joyful warriors."
https://steady.substack.com/p/joyful-warriors
You mean like Kamala, the "joyful warrior" with a 94% employee turnover rate? I guess it was just too much "joy" for them to handle.
Dan Rather is a sickening horrible person. Dementia probably
Rosemary, you might want to go back and read what the gato said. I think you missed a bit of it. Projection can come from any direction.
You said 'Liberals...are about hate.' I am a liberal person. I do not make a practice of hating other people. I gave up on the 'left/right' spectrum a while back. I am not interested in creating 'hateful angry people.'
Please consider re-reading the piece and then trying to re-evaluate your position.
I'm glad you spoke up. Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." I call them "regressive." They abandoned liberalism years (perhaps even decades) ago. The regressives are driving true liberals out of the democrat party.
I don't have any problem with you labelling people you don't like as 'regressive.' If you're into labelling, well, who I am to tell you not to do that?
I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing? Personally, I'm at a stage in my life where I reject all labels for myself and for others. I'm trying to find activities that I find more productive.
I write long and sometimes fairly pedantic responses to posts here on Substack. I try to respond in a thought-filled manner, exploring issues raised, even casually.
Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'
I grew up in the 1960s. People used to say that 'the personal is political.' And boy is that true. Best wishes.
"I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing?"
Why are you asking *me* this question? I've never called *anyone* either of those things.
"Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'"
This is an odd thing for you to say. Aren't *you* labeling *me* as a 'hateful person who dehumanizes other people'?
Interesting question. Direct quote from you: "Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." Apologies if you think I consider you 'hateful.' I don't mean to give that impression. I don't think that about you.
I was trying to say that labelling others as 'hateful' seems to lead people down a slippery slope that leads to dehumanisation.
Do you not think that it's hateful to dehumanize people? The people I label 'regressive' are people that dehumanize others. They call people who have a different political opinion 'nazis', 'racists', etc. Those labels are a LOT more dehumanizing than 'regressive', and I can't help but regard the abuse of such extreme labels as hateful. That is why I call them 'regressive'. I call them that because of their *behavior,* not because I disagree with them politically.
If it were just a matter of a difference of opinion, the labels I would use for them are the ones they apply to themselves. I have no issues with people I disagree with who are otherwise decent people. Oops, there, I just labeled some people I disagree with as 'decent'. Do you have an issue with THAT label? People *will* have labels, they'll have labels they apply to themselves and labels other people apply to them. It's a normal, human behavior to label people.
It is important not to conflate “liberals” with “progressives”, as there is a huge difference. Actual liberals (like say the liberals of the ‘60s and ‘70s) believe in free speech, are anti-war, are skeptical of the government, tolerant of opposing views and in general believe in reason, logic and the ideals of the Enlightenment. George Carlin is a good example of the type. Progressives on the other hand wear the language of liberalism as a skin suit to fool the rubes into believing they are on the same side, but in reality progressivism is almost completely opposite to liberalism — progressives hate free speech, seem to love war (at least when directed to by the government), uncritically swallow any propaganda the government puts out there and in general believe in things like “lived experience” (aka, “unfalsifiable personal anecdotes”) and that reality is socially constructed. Not the same at all, and at a bare minimum people should stop calling these authoritarian leftists “liberals”.
You may or may not be familiar with Progressive Era of the early 20th century in the US. I just skimmed the Wikipedia article, and it seems like a fair representation of the basic issues - and I am very careful to not blindly trust Wikipedia. I tried, unsuccessfully, to find a book I read a few years ago about that era. My eyes were opened to at least recognising that weasel words are all around us.
Personally, I tend to respond to posts with words like 'liberal,' 'progressive' and the like because I am now at the point where I reject the use of any labels, since they are prone to divide people.
I prefer to explore issues and try to think about how we can move forward as human beings, rather than getting hung up in endless finger-pointing situations where we say 'You bad' - 'No you bad' - 'No you really bad'.
I'm 68. I don't have many years of life left. I want to nudge human beings - and maybe even the AI who is reading what we write. I want to nudge us toward talking to each other instead of labelling each other. So I write long-winded, thought-filled replies.
I was fortunate to see George Carlin in 1980 at a theatre in Dayton, Ohio. I laughed and found him fascinating. I don't remember a single word he said, but maybe I am channelling just a little bit of that dear man's spirit when I slowly and methodically analyse posts on Substack.
You seem rather certain that you know what progressives and liberals are all about. I've lived long enough to have seen the definition of both those words - and many others change over and over. It certainly can be satisfying to let your emotions express themselves in words like hate and love and propaganda. I just let the words wash over me, like so many other words I've seen.
I'll admit that I even used to indulge in that kind of language myself. But I like to think that as we grow older - if we are lucky enough to do so - we become wiser. Maybe we do. Maybe we don't
That's my 'lived experience,' Coco McShevitz. One thing that our culture has lost is respect for the wisdom of our elders. Now, our culture, - our shared, socially constructed reality that exists in our minds - our culture is pretty screwed up, so some of our elders - and our youngers - spout a bunch of nonsense. Oh, dear. Maybe I'm one of the elders spouting nonsense. I best be quiet now. I hope I addressed enough of what you said that you 'feel heard.' Best wishes.
the left wears the name tag of Liberals. So, ??
we are not the liberals wearing weird cry baby t shirts or ones with logos and rainbows
and forcing and eagerly accepting leftist ideals. they are not speaking up against their party, really not even the slightest bit more than the conservatives.
okay, SORRY I do understand what you are sensitive about.
How ever when I am speaking about "these people" and
The Left, I am not talking about us normal American people living our happy lives being conservative or liberal.
I am speaking specifically, pointing to these people that gaslight and are on our tvs, in the "news" in public forums, spouting their hate. They are "Obama's Army". I dislike them. Obama spoke in 2008 about having an Army. This is what he wanted
This is what I struggled with for years with an ex wife.she had a sharp tounge, a terrific grasp of language, a mind incapable of logical thought, and an extremely fragile ego.
To disagree with her on any subject was a personal attack on her very being.
Many people just like her today
I just checked out Karen's substack. Ooooh she is on fire and has so many many many subscribers to read her words of wisdom.
That said, every liberal I know is like this. Some are very outspoken and rattle off to any one at any opportunity. The other half just wants to sit down and obey
there certainly is no shortage of these virtue signaling backrub circles where everyone loudly proclaims allegiance to the current orthodoxy, is there?
Agree and yet, we need to try. I’m getting furious with those who want 4 more years of “this”. There’s no way to opt out if Harris wins. You’re describing my neighborhood except for a few. Just ordered my yard signs.
These people were probably already mentally ill. It doesn’t take much to push a borderline personality disorder who watches TV all day completely over the edge. They never had any rational thought to begin with, and they already had a very tenuous grasp on reality anyway. I have a family member that is as you say- and they are a high functioning borderline schizophrenic who always had a difficult time with reality before all this. The Fourth Estate is morally bankrupt and has driven people to absolute madness.
If they are schizophrenic what can you do for them? They are like someone out to sea, succumbing to the undertow of their disease, and occasionally they tread water and are lucid, but other times their mash up of reality/fantasy takes over and you hear snippets of the Bible, Star Trek reruns, and their central role in all of history.
Problem is, many of the worst of these people are not necessarily BPD, or watch TV all day; in fact, they're often very well 'educated', hold mid-high positions in various professions (but notably academia), and are extremely busy people. In fact, I think their busy-ness and the specialisation within their chosen field (and the narrowness of scope that brings), and the lack of time to read widely has caused them to become ignorant about much outside of their chosen fields - to seem 'informed' about what is going on in the world they latch on to whatever is spoon-fed to them by their most popular liberal news source (as well as the Guardian :) ) these are the worst because they think of themselves as so smart and well-regarded within their field, the idea that they are broadly ignorant is too much for them.
I think TDS is a form of narcissism where the person demanding we comply with their thinking is the best, the smartest, the all-knowing. Narcissism and hoarding are the only two mental disorders that cannot be successfully treated. So we have that.
The one thing that occurs to me (depending on your own relationship with this person, what they think of you personally), would be to then ask: ok, so you are describing me as a person of questionable morals, and I assume even worse if I actually support the guy. What, outside of Trump leads you to this conclusion about me? Do you think I believe all the things by which you described Trump, and yet choose to support him anyway? What about me would lead you to think that I would dismiss lightly such allegations?
Scapegoating is the same concept, maybe just a secondary phase. Projecting is assigning one's inner shadows to another. Scapegoating is then wanting to destroy that person.
...because you think they reflect your own shadow of which you are unaware? Is that right?
That's correct. It's a ultimately psychological coping mechanism. Breaking through to the person is similar to getting a person to admit to an addiction.
Or that they are in a cult.
They're not mutually exclusive.
It is my favorite thing about Trump. Their reaction. Covid was similar. You get to see who the real crazies, “good Germans”, and everyone else incapable of original thought. Also, always a good time to cull relationships:)
Trump and Covid are reacting against the same thing, and it's perception vs. reality. They are silent when you explain to them that "warp speed" was approved by Trump. .
Read 1984.
It’s here
"what sort of treatment would make a dent here" Maybe a hammer?
No treatment would work. You'd have to have friends who tell you the truth and engage you in real conversations about important ideas. A precursor to that is that you'd have to be willing to, and want to have friends who have different ideas and who you respect enough to engage with regarding those ideas.
My guess is that people like this have none of that.
This is the openness that Jordan Peterson talks about and I don't think these 'liberals' actually have an iota of that.
For them it’s too much of a risk to have friends with opposite views. They have to protect their mental health and Joy, they say. Life is too short to be around negative people they will say. They can’t handle the anger and anxiety caused “by them”, (sadly it’s caused by their own reactions and their own lack of critical thinking and lack of ability to have thoughtful discussions, not by those who believe differently than them.)
I sort of understand how hard it is to be around someone who endlessly parrots the preferred narrative that opposes what I’m thinking/believing, and who doesn’t stop to thoughtfully consider something I say. Their only goal is to be right in the discussion and shove down my throat what’s wrong with my views without ever really discussing what I actually said. At some point I do need to get away from that negative energy. So then I wonder if that’s how they feel talking to me. How can I rephrase my views into questions that provoke new lines of thought instead? I see it modeled by some of you and I’m grateful for that. It’s hard for me. I’ve never learned that skill and I think it’s time I learn to develop it.
But I’m not parroting preferred narratives either, I’m actually presenting my own original thoughts. So when I’m accused of being brainwashed by Trump b.s., as I often am in comments sections, it’s confusing. It’s as if my views can only be possible through brainwashing. Well we certainly accuse them of that same thing. Hmmm
But I DO see a difference, I just don’t know how to articulate it. I guess I can tell when I’m talking to someone that does not ever want to change how they think no matter what is said, and it’s not worth my time. Those are the people I walk away from.
But recently someone pointed out negative views about Trump and his past “failures”, and while it bothered me I am allowing myself to consider his views and think about if and how it would ever affect his presidency. I found myself feeling that at this point given the two choices we have that have a realistic chance of being elected, one is definitely more dangerous to our freedoms and to the constitution, and it’s not Trump. Therefore, any valid points about concerns over his past inactions are not worth discussing right now as it could sway people from voting for him and that’s a greater danger than anything about him is. But I’m willing to think more and discuss those points further AFTER he is in office. One would say that’s stupid because once he is in office you can’t get him out. Well - I wouldn’t want to. 😂 Harris or whoever the deep state wants in will ALWAYS be far worse than Trump, so no amount of opening my eyes to his faults and past sins are going to matter. He needs to win. Those among us who think they are all corrupt and voting for any of them is a loss are hurting this election deeply.
You have to have a real relationship to engage in a potentially tense discussion about important ideas. Creating the groundwork for that relationship takes time. The fact that a lot of people have been willing to write off previously (perceivedly) loved family members because of the political divide (which existed before but they weren't bothered about it as much because their 'betters' hadn't told them to focus their entire telos around it) shows just how much is required of that relationship. It requires honesty, commitment, intelligence, fairness, justice, and sanity.
You ain't gonna get that from a propaganda spouting comrade.
I'd hate to be the one doing that triage.
It's really TDS induced PTSD.