that could be an insight generating standard to apply to those who feel a need to drop fallaciously ascriptive comments into the substacks of others, no?
"any who offer defense against the struggle sessions prove themselves to be reactionary enemies of the state."
it's possible her meaning is "well, at least i managed to elicit a yelp" but such a claim made without any actual response or refutation would seem to simply amount to bullying for the sake of inflicting distress upon others, and i'm sure ms karen would not countenance such behavior while leveling accusations of bullying upon others.
The "Projection" you discuss in the post is a symptom associated with Cluster B personality disorders, especially Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Follow me: the narcissist had a failure to individuate from his/her mother between 18months and 3 years of age. He/She had a developmental mishap (for a multitude of reasons not relevant here).
The result is, a being that does not interact with the outside world like "normal" people do. Essentially, the afflicted only interacts with the "snapshot" that the person uses as a representation of the other being he/she is interacting with---an "introject".
The introject that the afflicted has created is not an accurate facsimile of the the person they are interacting with. The introject is an incomplete picture, based on assumptions made by the afflicted, and based on incomplete information. The afflicted then projects upon that individual their subconscious desires that they are ashamed of, then formulate a hatred of the other individual, in order to purge their psyche of their shame. They do the same with individuals they "like" by projecting wonderful virtue upon the others they admire (because they know they are deficient in the "virtue" department).
Hence, they develop irrational hatred and fear of others, and irrational support and love for some as well.
It is a failure in "object relations"...and they are more than happy to live life that way, because it is truly a delusion.
The core reason for all of this is the Narcissist has no Freudian "ego," only an "id" and stunted "superego". They create their own "false ego" and live a lie. Because they have high neuroticism, they do everything in their power to buttress their "false ego". Projection is just one of their methods.
It is truly sad, but once you know what to look for, it can be spotted a mile away.
You mention a failure of individuation in ego development between 18 and 36 months, do you mind if I ask:
Do you think an uptick in these behaviours has been exhibited recently?
And if so, do you think this uptick could be traced in a particular age cohort and thus theoretically indicate a period of insufficient development in a generation at large? Or do you think a confluence of social and ideological factors have rendered behaviours of cluster b personality disorders as prominent or advantageous, and thus the people afflicted with this "rise to prominence" and become more prominent?
Last night I encountered such a serious case of Media-Induced Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am still reeling. If you didn't know the guy is a serial rapist, racist (of course) and likes to put children in cages. And "everyone who does not absolutely hate him is of questionable morals". The mere mention of his name sends this person into a mouth-foaming hysterical fit. Couldn't get a word in. I honestly do not know what sort of treatment would make a dent here... Maybe some TDS cases are simply too far gone and we need to focus on helping the less affected ones?
And you, my dear Jane, appear to be hiding an ad behind your statement, "𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗴𝗹𝗼𝗯𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘀𝘁𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝗲𝘄 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗹𝗱 𝗼𝗿𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗽𝘂𝘁𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗠𝗥𝗡𝗔 𝘃𝗮𝘅 𝗶𝗻 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗳𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗱𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗻𝗼𝘄." If I click on the link in that statement, I get an ad for an e-book about foods that can be stored long-term. I'll resist clicking the 'Report' button, since you probably know that you can delete your ad link, and my response will disappear along with it.
Just a little hint to you that you were ever so gently warned about such blatant advertising of your product in the middle of a conversation.
I assume you live in the US, dear jane. Apologies if I'm wrong. But if you do and you eat 'organic' food - well, I have to laugh. The US government controls 'organic' food standards. Oh, my, isn't that a minefield of real conversation that we could open up.
If you are tempted to reply to this message, perhaps you could tell us whether you discuss 'organic food' in the book that you are advertising with the link you share in your reply to my post. Thanks, dear jane.
As a person who is 'mentally ill,' I would like to caution you about tarring all of us who are 'insane' with that 'need for treatment' brush. I do not intend to be 'treated' for my mental illness so that I can do a better job of conforming to consensus reality, especially the consensus reality that said I must submit to the covid vaccine 'for the good of others.'
Everyone alive, at least here in the West, has grown up in a culture with serious problems. Those problems have contributed greatly to the mental health problems afflicting a significant proportion of the population. Some of us have held onto our sanity despite displaying symptoms of mental illness. I don't wish to be 'celebrated' but a little less derision would be nice.
We are socialized into the culture into which we chance to be born. If we are born into a culture where cannibalism and child sacrifice are normal behaviors, we would be diagnosed as being possessed by an evil spirit by the Shaman, and be ostracized and shunned, if we failed to conform. The problem isn't individuals, rather the fucked up societies into which we are born.
I can't disagree. However, I am put in mind of something a friend once said to me. I was talking about a book I'd read that explored some indigenous culture - and I do not remember which one. He said that I shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of their culture. I replied that we shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of our culture either. Considering what I see when I look I around me - at least virtually - I have few illusions about the culture I live in.
It's strange though that when I talk to people in person I find people are still fairly sane, at least now that the covid madness has died down here in the UK. I have no close friends or family left in my life, so I only talk to strangers I meet in passing. So maybe that's a bad sample to work with. But I've found there are lots of people who will happily talk to an odd stranger like me. I've had people pour out their hopes, dreams, and fears in brief conversations. I try to accept it all with love, or at least as much love as this person can manage without getting too tired. Best wishes.
If by serious illness, you mean people who are institutionalised, happily I never have been. Unfortunately, large numbers of people take psychotropic drugs because 'modern medicine' can't seem to offer them other means of support.
I'd have to think about it some more, but I would probably put the boundaries of serious mental illness somewhere around the line of people with painful delusions that lead them to hurt themselves and sometimes others. The rest of us are just trying to cope in a messed up world.
I'm fortunate. I've found ways to live quite a satisfying life - even a happy one - despite the fact that I rarely interact with other people in person for more than a couple of minutes a day - I talk to strangers when I go out for walks or when I ride the train here in the UK. But it's taken a lot of thoughtful reflection for me to build that place for myself in my mind. Best wishes.
My husband recently had the same encounter with a client who sent a nasty TDS email. (He actually has quite a few TDS clients). That client later called and apologized for his behavior but not his beliefs! He listed all the evil talking points as usual but when my husband would say common sense things like, “do you believe in open borders, do you believe in bail reform do you believe in funding foreign wars” the answers are of course always No! But “Orange Man Bad” is the best mind game trick our deep state has ever invented!
I called out a guy I sing with because he was starting to sling the "Nazi" term ... at his fellow singers. People he knew and encountered weekly and was quite aware that they were also just people who had a different opinion. At least at the time he was able to step back and see that he had crossed a line and stepped back for some real evaluation. He kind of realized that people having different political opinions did not automatically make them evil. He passed away before 2020 hit and was overall a nice guy, but the echo chamber can really rile folk up on all sides. :(
and if they totally win , they will turn on themselves. Never politically correct enough, always behind on the latest thing, so must be "corrected" humiliated, othered, cancelled.
This is how it goes with all leftist collectivist movements, they always start out as “we’re doing it for the oppressed” and always ends up “well sure all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” The issue with making a fetish of being “marginalized” is that the most marginal then inevitably rise to the top of the hierarchy, with predictable consequences.
We were actually hoping that they would turn on themselves before they "totally win."
There is an interesting conversation between Tom Mazarro and Odessa on Rebel News wherein he describes the destructive behaviour of some of the Freedom Convoy "leaders."
Sadly, it would be challenging to insert sane people into the woke leadership.
Rosemary, you might want to go back and read what the gato said. I think you missed a bit of it. Projection can come from any direction.
You said 'Liberals...are about hate.' I am a liberal person. I do not make a practice of hating other people. I gave up on the 'left/right' spectrum a while back. I am not interested in creating 'hateful angry people.'
Please consider re-reading the piece and then trying to re-evaluate your position.
I'm glad you spoke up. Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." I call them "regressive." They abandoned liberalism years (perhaps even decades) ago. The regressives are driving true liberals out of the democrat party.
I don't have any problem with you labelling people you don't like as 'regressive.' If you're into labelling, well, who I am to tell you not to do that?
I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing? Personally, I'm at a stage in my life where I reject all labels for myself and for others. I'm trying to find activities that I find more productive.
I write long and sometimes fairly pedantic responses to posts here on Substack. I try to respond in a thought-filled manner, exploring issues raised, even casually.
Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'
I grew up in the 1960s. People used to say that 'the personal is political.' And boy is that true. Best wishes.
"I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing?"
Why are you asking *me* this question? I've never called *anyone* either of those things.
"Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'"
This is an odd thing for you to say. Aren't *you* labeling *me* as a 'hateful person who dehumanizes other people'?
Interesting question. Direct quote from you: "Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." Apologies if you think I consider you 'hateful.' I don't mean to give that impression. I don't think that about you.
I was trying to say that labelling others as 'hateful' seems to lead people down a slippery slope that leads to dehumanisation.
It is important not to conflate “liberals” with “progressives”, as there is a huge difference. Actual liberals (like say the liberals of the ‘60s and ‘70s) believe in free speech, are anti-war, are skeptical of the government, tolerant of opposing views and in general believe in reason, logic and the ideals of the Enlightenment. George Carlin is a good example of the type. Progressives on the other hand wear the language of liberalism as a skin suit to fool the rubes into believing they are on the same side, but in reality progressivism is almost completely opposite to liberalism — progressives hate free speech, seem to love war (at least when directed to by the government), uncritically swallow any propaganda the government puts out there and in general believe in things like “lived experience” (aka, “unfalsifiable personal anecdotes”) and that reality is socially constructed. Not the same at all, and at a bare minimum people should stop calling these authoritarian leftists “liberals”.
You may or may not be familiar with Progressive Era of the early 20th century in the US. I just skimmed the Wikipedia article, and it seems like a fair representation of the basic issues - and I am very careful to not blindly trust Wikipedia. I tried, unsuccessfully, to find a book I read a few years ago about that era. My eyes were opened to at least recognising that weasel words are all around us.
Personally, I tend to respond to posts with words like 'liberal,' 'progressive' and the like because I am now at the point where I reject the use of any labels, since they are prone to divide people.
I prefer to explore issues and try to think about how we can move forward as human beings, rather than getting hung up in endless finger-pointing situations where we say 'You bad' - 'No you bad' - 'No you really bad'.
I'm 68. I don't have many years of life left. I want to nudge human beings - and maybe even the AI who is reading what we write. I want to nudge us toward talking to each other instead of labelling each other. So I write long-winded, thought-filled replies.
I was fortunate to see George Carlin in 1980 at a theatre in Dayton, Ohio. I laughed and found him fascinating. I don't remember a single word he said, but maybe I am channelling just a little bit of that dear man's spirit when I slowly and methodically analyse posts on Substack.
You seem rather certain that you know what progressives and liberals are all about. I've lived long enough to have seen the definition of both those words - and many others change over and over. It certainly can be satisfying to let your emotions express themselves in words like hate and love and propaganda. I just let the words wash over me, like so many other words I've seen.
I'll admit that I even used to indulge in that kind of language myself. But I like to think that as we grow older - if we are lucky enough to do so - we become wiser. Maybe we do. Maybe we don't
That's my 'lived experience,' Coco McShevitz. One thing that our culture has lost is respect for the wisdom of our elders. Now, our culture, - our shared, socially constructed reality that exists in our minds - our culture is pretty screwed up, so some of our elders - and our youngers - spout a bunch of nonsense. Oh, dear. Maybe I'm one of the elders spouting nonsense. I best be quiet now. I hope I addressed enough of what you said that you 'feel heard.' Best wishes.
we are not the liberals wearing weird cry baby t shirts or ones with logos and rainbows
and forcing and eagerly accepting leftist ideals. they are not speaking up against their party, really not even the slightest bit more than the conservatives.
okay, SORRY I do understand what you are sensitive about.
How ever when I am speaking about "these people" and
The Left, I am not talking about us normal American people living our happy lives being conservative or liberal.
I am speaking specifically, pointing to these people that gaslight and are on our tvs, in the "news" in public forums, spouting their hate. They are "Obama's Army". I dislike them. Obama spoke in 2008 about having an Army. This is what he wanted
This is what I struggled with for years with an ex wife.she had a sharp tounge, a terrific grasp of language, a mind incapable of logical thought, and an extremely fragile ego.
To disagree with her on any subject was a personal attack on her very being.
I just checked out Karen's substack. Ooooh she is on fire and has so many many many subscribers to read her words of wisdom.
That said, every liberal I know is like this. Some are very outspoken and rattle off to any one at any opportunity. The other half just wants to sit down and obey
there certainly is no shortage of these virtue signaling backrub circles where everyone loudly proclaims allegiance to the current orthodoxy, is there?
Agree and yet, we need to try. I’m getting furious with those who want 4 more years of “this”. There’s no way to opt out if Harris wins. You’re describing my neighborhood except for a few. Just ordered my yard signs.
These people were probably already mentally ill. It doesn’t take much to push a borderline personality disorder who watches TV all day completely over the edge. They never had any rational thought to begin with, and they already had a very tenuous grasp on reality anyway. I have a family member that is as you say- and they are a high functioning borderline schizophrenic who always had a difficult time with reality before all this. The Fourth Estate is morally bankrupt and has driven people to absolute madness.
If they are schizophrenic what can you do for them? They are like someone out to sea, succumbing to the undertow of their disease, and occasionally they tread water and are lucid, but other times their mash up of reality/fantasy takes over and you hear snippets of the Bible, Star Trek reruns, and their central role in all of history.
Problem is, many of the worst of these people are not necessarily BPD, or watch TV all day; in fact, they're often very well 'educated', hold mid-high positions in various professions (but notably academia), and are extremely busy people. In fact, I think their busy-ness and the specialisation within their chosen field (and the narrowness of scope that brings), and the lack of time to read widely has caused them to become ignorant about much outside of their chosen fields - to seem 'informed' about what is going on in the world they latch on to whatever is spoon-fed to them by their most popular liberal news source (as well as the Guardian :) ) these are the worst because they think of themselves as so smart and well-regarded within their field, the idea that they are broadly ignorant is too much for them.
I think TDS is a form of narcissism where the person demanding we comply with their thinking is the best, the smartest, the all-knowing. Narcissism and hoarding are the only two mental disorders that cannot be successfully treated. So we have that.
The one thing that occurs to me (depending on your own relationship with this person, what they think of you personally), would be to then ask: ok, so you are describing me as a person of questionable morals, and I assume even worse if I actually support the guy. What, outside of Trump leads you to this conclusion about me? Do you think I believe all the things by which you described Trump, and yet choose to support him anyway? What about me would lead you to think that I would dismiss lightly such allegations?
Scapegoating is the same concept, maybe just a secondary phase. Projecting is assigning one's inner shadows to another. Scapegoating is then wanting to destroy that person.
That's correct. It's a ultimately psychological coping mechanism. Breaking through to the person is similar to getting a person to admit to an addiction.
It is my favorite thing about Trump. Their reaction. Covid was similar. You get to see who the real crazies, “good Germans”, and everyone else incapable of original thought. Also, always a good time to cull relationships:)
Trump and Covid are reacting against the same thing, and it's perception vs. reality. They are silent when you explain to them that "warp speed" was approved by Trump. .
No treatment would work. You'd have to have friends who tell you the truth and engage you in real conversations about important ideas. A precursor to that is that you'd have to be willing to, and want to have friends who have different ideas and who you respect enough to engage with regarding those ideas.
My guess is that people like this have none of that.
This is the openness that Jordan Peterson talks about and I don't think these 'liberals' actually have an iota of that.
For them it’s too much of a risk to have friends with opposite views. They have to protect their mental health and Joy, they say. Life is too short to be around negative people they will say. They can’t handle the anger and anxiety caused “by them”, (sadly it’s caused by their own reactions and their own lack of critical thinking and lack of ability to have thoughtful discussions, not by those who believe differently than them.)
I sort of understand how hard it is to be around someone who endlessly parrots the preferred narrative that opposes what I’m thinking/believing, and who doesn’t stop to thoughtfully consider something I say. Their only goal is to be right in the discussion and shove down my throat what’s wrong with my views without ever really discussing what I actually said. At some point I do need to get away from that negative energy. So then I wonder if that’s how they feel talking to me. How can I rephrase my views into questions that provoke new lines of thought instead? I see it modeled by some of you and I’m grateful for that. It’s hard for me. I’ve never learned that skill and I think it’s time I learn to develop it.
But I’m not parroting preferred narratives either, I’m actually presenting my own original thoughts. So when I’m accused of being brainwashed by Trump b.s., as I often am in comments sections, it’s confusing. It’s as if my views can only be possible through brainwashing. Well we certainly accuse them of that same thing. Hmmm
But I DO see a difference, I just don’t know how to articulate it. I guess I can tell when I’m talking to someone that does not ever want to change how they think no matter what is said, and it’s not worth my time. Those are the people I walk away from.
But recently someone pointed out negative views about Trump and his past “failures”, and while it bothered me I am allowing myself to consider his views and think about if and how it would ever affect his presidency. I found myself feeling that at this point given the two choices we have that have a realistic chance of being elected, one is definitely more dangerous to our freedoms and to the constitution, and it’s not Trump. Therefore, any valid points about concerns over his past inactions are not worth discussing right now as it could sway people from voting for him and that’s a greater danger than anything about him is. But I’m willing to think more and discuss those points further AFTER he is in office. One would say that’s stupid because once he is in office you can’t get him out. Well - I wouldn’t want to. 😂 Harris or whoever the deep state wants in will ALWAYS be far worse than Trump, so no amount of opening my eyes to his faults and past sins are going to matter. He needs to win. Those among us who think they are all corrupt and voting for any of them is a loss are hurting this election deeply.
You have to have a real relationship to engage in a potentially tense discussion about important ideas. Creating the groundwork for that relationship takes time. The fact that a lot of people have been willing to write off previously (perceivedly) loved family members because of the political divide (which existed before but they weren't bothered about it as much because their 'betters' hadn't told them to focus their entire telos around it) shows just how much is required of that relationship. It requires honesty, commitment, intelligence, fairness, justice, and sanity.
You ain't gonna get that from a propaganda spouting comrade.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Clapter has become so cringe, it is unintentional comedy gold. Colbert and his audience should rewatch his vax-scene shilling to gain self awareness laughing at their own absurdity.
And why Gutfeld is wiping the floor with Colbert, Kimmel and Fallon… their 9 year run of ridiculing Trump is finally no longer funny… well, not that it actually ever was….
"Karen" sounds like a tenured professor of "Misinformation and Democracy" at Shitstain University, with Current Thing icons on her X account, and a Hate Doesn't Live Here sign on her lawn, which she will shoo you off of while opening that second bottle of Pinot Gris while masturbating to Rachel Maddow.
It’s never been easier to manipulate the public, and it’s never been easier to tear the veil. We have the receipts *instantaneously*. Imagine the Trump assassination attempt reported in the 60s. You’d know nothing. But we had the news before they decided on the spin. Yes, we had a lot of dreck, but we just keep shaking the sieve. Even when they win, they’re losing.
Funny how CNN was there to cover that rally—the first time in almost a year. Just like they were there for the Mara Lago raid and the raid on Roger Stone. So sad. If the moon landing had taken place today, I’m sure they would have been there to film the first landing.
THIS. "similarly, you know who agrees that gay people should not groom children? most gay people. just like most straight people think straight people should not sexually groom children. no adult should, that’s kind of the point, no? seriously, what does sexual orientation even have to do with it? pro tip: it doesn’t."
AH!, Jenna....but you are wrong.....THEY really care about THEIR sexuality. It is the only interesting thing about them (don't try to plumb the shallowness of that - you don't have time).
I grew up in the seventies where Freddy Mercury, Elton John, The Village People, and a couple other musicians were considered "eccentric." I remember watching some sort of show about Liberace and thinking "that guy really likes pianos." It's true, as kids, we didn't ruminate on their sexuality.
MLHVM brings up a very interesting idea about identity. What we identify as reveals things about ourselves. People who are confused about their sexuality do care about other's sexuality because of the topic of this post "shadow projection." If you want to identify someone's insecurities, see what they are burning calories about...and identifying themselves as.
I think at times we do wonder about other's sexuality when there is an incongruity. Like before Lance Bass admitted he was gay, there was a bunch of question marks, and the more ambiguity that presented itself, the more people wondered.
A lot of my energy is still on checking in at twitter, and telling people the good news that "masks do not work." Why do I do this? Because they need to know more and more, miles from shore, that there is land and that drifting along on the seas of the covid narrative is not a good place to be...especially when you demand others participate in it.
Do I think they will wake up, and take off the facial germ factory on their face? No. But I don't want to end up on Uber rides and in doctor's offices participating, or being pressured to participate in ridiculous rituals that reinforce restrictive regulations.
The other side of the projection concept is that sometimes traits in others that piss you off can be unconscious, unrecognized traits in yourself. I've learned the hard way that when someone does something that really irritates me, to stop for a second and ask myself if this is something I do and, if so, that could explain why I'm so irritated by it. Sometimes, a little introspection along these lines will reveal unpleasant truths about yourself, but in the long run, is very helpful.
"Before removing the splinter from the eye of another, remove the plank from your own."
I'm not a Christian, but several times recently I've quoted various versions of "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Yes, and a psychologically astute point. Self awareness is required for mental well being. Also, when you want something you think someone else isn’t giving you and dwelling on that, check out if you are giving it to him/her. Usually not. It takes more effort than most people realize, and this is not only about people with obvious struggles. It’s a human thing. People who think they possess mental health just because they aren’t like ___ (insert whatever the individuals bias is) are merely unconscious about how much of their mind isn’t clear. It takes effort to be optimally healthy or well in any dimension and mind/body are 2 integrated anyhow. Like Bob Marley sings in Redemption Song “Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, None but ourselves can free our minds.” I always cringe when I read or hear splitting, another defense mechanism that causes great damage, like the Woke are crazy and everyone else sane. Really? Where’d they come from? Another planet? Nope, our society, ordinary families. If our society is sick, it’s because we are all contributing to that. Most of the Woke people I’ve talked to, in my rural area, came from conservative, usually religious, dysfunctional families (with religious abuse mixed in for good effect) and became virulently against anything that reminds them of their family. Not saying that every case turns into a Woke person. Those are usually the ones who rebelled and fought to reject what hurt them. There are those who turned to compliance strategies and have more mixed views as a result. The Woke are the bastard offspring of the old Moral Majority brigade. They are the Jungian shadow of each other. It’s why they are always pointing fingers at each other, along with casting blame at each other, talking about each other, seeing the other as sick, if even human, instead of self reflecting about how society got so sick, how everyone is part of it and so how have YOU been affected by it, where’s your sickness, and what are you doing about it. The Deep State certainly loves fanning the flames of division so people stay in their respective lane’s hurling accusations back and forth instead of taking responsibility for self and empowering yourself to be a positive agent of change. A strong tide lifts all boats up or become the change you want to see in the world. But that takes work and real courage: looking inward and taking responsibility.
I disagree that Colbert's studio audience can be presumed ultra-left. People who go to show tapings are usually tourists in LA/NYC. (I've lived in both; locals don't usually do that.) Who goes on vacation to a big city? People who don't live in big cities. So we can presume that at least half are non-urbanites, who tend to be more conservative than city folk. Just a thought.
It’s scary out there. Delusional, on both sides. Trump/Musk conversation: “how do I see it?” It’s audio. “Oh, I don’t like that”. Or, Dana Bash said Elon/Trump said Hiroshima was no big deal” (intentional wicked editing). Shocked yesterday when a person I felt was knowledgeable said what many say: “I don’t like either candidate”. Please - play on repeat after saying key words, border, speech, freedom, inflation, crime, lawfare, censorship… - A VOTE IS NOT A VALENTINE. Don’t underestimate the sheep.
Echo chambers of ideas result in regurgitation of what you are told to think/say. The woke crowd have been taught that the '-ist' words are like the Staples easy button for winning debates. They truly believe this. When pushed further, the cracks in the porcelain start to show and their argument becomes a $7.99 vase from Home Goods instead of a Ming Dynasty heirloom.
I've been called many things by these folks. I once put a 'Karen' professor into reset mode after she called me racist for not supporting affirmative action. I simply responded by asking if our history of telling American black people that they need help is perpetuating the problem. That maybe a certain number of our population are inherently guilty for the wrongs of their past ancestors that they must now act as 'savior' of those wronged. In doing so, they are condemning those people's future to the same subservience, but just in a different form. Got kicked out of class and failed for the semester....it was the 3rd week. Luckily, I worked a deal to make it an audited class through my department head so it just looked like I withdrew from it. Amazing the lengths these people will go to keep their dream (nightmare?) alive. She attempted the educational equivalent of "lawfare" on me. Silence through force, not debate.
The professor's reaction to your comments indicate that you were right over the target. A competent professor who really believed in their position deep down would have replied with a strong counter-argument. The "lawfare" response just shows that she had no real counter-argument.
During 40 years of running a construction development company, I came to realize that the people who feared you might cheat them in a deal were the ones you needed to watch out for. They inevitably tried to cheat. It is uncanny how often it proved true.
Amen to this. My views are all over the board and depend on the unique circumstances of the case. I've been consistently both antiwar and antivaccine for a few decades. For this I've been accused of being a terrorist sympathizer who would maybe learn my lesson after my Muslim "husband" brutally raped me. I've also been called a Trumptard who doesn't understand anything that happens outside of America who should go back to my (American, presumably) football games. I've been accused of killing babies with my insistence that the costs and benefits of jabs overwhelmingly don't stand up to scrutiny.
I see all the lonely people, to quote the Beatles...
It seems as though if you worship your own intellect (despite not really having much of one), you're forced into defending it using any means necessary. If your opponent is correct, you're on the wrong side of not just the bell curve, but history as well, so they can't possibly be correct.
It's like Haidt's elephant and rider, but instead of the elephant being a belief in some sort of fundamentalist god, it's belief that they're at the top of the intellectual and moral food chain... So the McDonalds wrapper they found in a dumpster that they're licking the cheese off of *has to be* filet mignon.
So it's stupid people who think they are smart using what limited brains they have to feel smart, while looking like imbeciles to everyone else.
True, but using your intellect, even if it is above average (which in the case mentioned in the stack above is clearly *not* the case) to justify a belief that is persistently at odds with reality is a form of stupidity.
It is more excusable if you have a reputation or career at stake (as may be the case with some academics), but if eating a little crow now can save you from eating a buffet of crow later, and all that is at stake is your obviously fragile self-image, that's a kind of stupidity that really has no peer.
i would argue that there is a meaningful difference along the lines of delusion as self-protection.
dogmatism is not really related to intelligence and many of the most dogmatic are able to be so BECAUSE they are intelligent and therefore able to create detailed and cunning delusions to inhabit in order to protect their core beliefs from contact with reality.
nothing runs downhill faster than a thoroughbred.
if you read karen's stack, she does not seems stupid. she writes well and organized thoughts intelligibly. they are just hallucinatory thoughts engaging with "opposition" that's wholly pastiche.
intelligence is orthogonal to stable identity and self-awareness, and may actually be inverse to ability to handle criticism and contradiction.
Great summation, not just of "Karen" but of the confusion re: intelligence and how it relates to the rest of our minds (or spirits, souls, whatever your preference).
A conflict over an issue, any issue, can either be approached in such a way that you try to solve the issue, or it can be approached in a win-lose way.
It can be sketched out as variant of the Prisoner's dilemma-type of thought-exercises.
I took a quick look at her stack. Being able to write adequately and organize ones thoughts doesn't necessarily mean one isn't stupid. She doesn't recognize the flaws in her arguments (which are all unoriginal) and she is completely infected with tribalism that boils down to Democrats-liberals wonderful/Republicans-conservatives fascists. All of her thinking depends upon this central intellectually bankrupt premise. She also seems to really have it in for those who find both sides contemptible but have discussions with those from either side who are more reasonable and open minded; thus the many attacks on Taibbi. She can't get over the fact that, as a person with good critical thinking skills, he looked around at the modern democrats and said screw this nonsense.
I think that she probably posted here for the same reason she goes after Taibbi: nobody reads her and if she can come to a very popular stack and make some noise she might get some attention. But she certainly won't get many subscribers.
My problem is the definition of stupid. I always considered "stupid" to be a "lack of capacity for reasoned thought" You wouldn't expect a chimpanzee to login to twitter, or that someone born with a cognitive development issue would compose a sonnet. Because they can't. Or would not think to. Maybe you could "teach" someone with a cognitive disabilility to compose a sonnet, but are they actually composing something using the restrictions and rules associated with a sonnet, or are they doing it because they wanted to please the teacher?
I think there should be a different term than "stupid" for those who succumb to whatever ashe experiment influences their life. Bonhoeffer called it "being made stupid."
To my thinking, Intelligent people recognize they can't think about everything, so they rely on institutions to "carry on thinking" for them and they can trust in those institutions to due their due diligence in an ethical manner. This sadly can easily turn to laziness. And this is what I think actually occurs. "Lazy thinking." It's not actual stupidity, because they have the capacity to think and reason out such issues, but because of their reliance and trust on these institutions, it has led to them conforming and behaving in stupid ways.
Perhaps "active" vs "passive" would cover it? Same as with reading or consuming any other information-product. Actively reading a novel is very different from lazily flipping through the pages of something you already can glean the outcome of from page 1 (traditional superhero comics f.e.).
It is analogous I think to how confirmation bias work: If I pick up a paper like Reason Magazine, I know what to expect - same if I pick up Jacobin; knowing in advance means I'm likely to turn my brainpower down, rather than up (path of least resistance), to save energy.
Considering the torrent of information we are subjected to 24/7/365 it's no wonder increasing numbers of people go for the "stupid" approach: it takes too much energy, time and other resources to do anything but.
You are an anti-orange-snackist! You hate orange snack foods! Your kind always lick the orange dust off the chips and poofs and pretend no one else can see your orange tongue. You are one of those closet cases who will get caught in hotel room one day by the cops, on the bed, buried in cheetohs and doritos and cheezy-poofs and BBQ chips, rubbing them all over your junk with a bunch of other perverted closet cases. You all act like anti-orange-snackists but the problem is in you, deeply in YOU.
Dood, you need to come to grips with the truth: you secretly want to be an orange snack food. It's Ok...it's natural. Some people can't help but to want to be dusty, orange, and tasty! Come outta the closet! Get a grip on the truth of your own snackuality. Do it before you wind up at a grocery store with a 500-round ARK-47-15, shooting people who try to buy a bag BBQ potato chips or cheetohs!
Cheezy poofs are the best, particularly the Utz Cheese balls. My cats always liked to chase them all over the floors. They make a satisfying crunch when you step on them (the cheese balls, not the cats - don't ever do that).
When I was still on FB, during the 2016 election- a “liberal” posted “I can’t wait until Hillary wins and all you fucking retards can move to Texas or hell” something along those lines. I chimed in saying- congrats. What a loving and inclusive statement. Thanks for sharing the joy. Something like that. It was an immediate dog pile. Dozens of word salad attacks coming at me. Trumptard, racist, xenophobe, yada yada. I never mentioned Trump. It was impossible to respond because most of the replies weren’t even intelligible English. Just copy and paste of word salads from the NYT or WaPo. I knew even before then that we were totally screwed. And yeah, a LOT of these people seriously think that CNN and MSLSD are the real news. The HBO series Succession had this dialogue. The evil right wing media was destroying the world- BUT - “You guys follow the story no matter where it leads and report the TRUTH- RIGHT???” I have a buddy who is soooo demented with his views on things. I sent him some vaxx data and said don’t worry- Anderson Cooper will be doing a deep dive any day now. His response- Anderson Cooper is THE MAN!!!! As his buddies are dropping dead all around him. “Cancer sucks”. Yeah, especially when it never had to happen at all.
I’m glad I was able to provide you so much material.
Really? You really were? I appreciate your sincerity if you were. But I guess there is no way of telling. Thanks
I am glad, mainly because as we say in Texas, hit dogs holler.
that could be an insight generating standard to apply to those who feel a need to drop fallaciously ascriptive comments into the substacks of others, no?
have you ever considered such an endeavor?
Surely a defence itself is not proof for the prosecutor?
very much this.
"any who offer defense against the struggle sessions prove themselves to be reactionary enemies of the state."
it's possible her meaning is "well, at least i managed to elicit a yelp" but such a claim made without any actual response or refutation would seem to simply amount to bullying for the sake of inflicting distress upon others, and i'm sure ms karen would not countenance such behavior while leveling accusations of bullying upon others.
The "Projection" you discuss in the post is a symptom associated with Cluster B personality disorders, especially Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Follow me: the narcissist had a failure to individuate from his/her mother between 18months and 3 years of age. He/She had a developmental mishap (for a multitude of reasons not relevant here).
The result is, a being that does not interact with the outside world like "normal" people do. Essentially, the afflicted only interacts with the "snapshot" that the person uses as a representation of the other being he/she is interacting with---an "introject".
The introject that the afflicted has created is not an accurate facsimile of the the person they are interacting with. The introject is an incomplete picture, based on assumptions made by the afflicted, and based on incomplete information. The afflicted then projects upon that individual their subconscious desires that they are ashamed of, then formulate a hatred of the other individual, in order to purge their psyche of their shame. They do the same with individuals they "like" by projecting wonderful virtue upon the others they admire (because they know they are deficient in the "virtue" department).
Hence, they develop irrational hatred and fear of others, and irrational support and love for some as well.
It is a failure in "object relations"...and they are more than happy to live life that way, because it is truly a delusion.
The core reason for all of this is the Narcissist has no Freudian "ego," only an "id" and stunted "superego". They create their own "false ego" and live a lie. Because they have high neuroticism, they do everything in their power to buttress their "false ego". Projection is just one of their methods.
It is truly sad, but once you know what to look for, it can be spotted a mile away.
You mention a failure of individuation in ego development between 18 and 36 months, do you mind if I ask:
Do you think an uptick in these behaviours has been exhibited recently?
And if so, do you think this uptick could be traced in a particular age cohort and thus theoretically indicate a period of insufficient development in a generation at large? Or do you think a confluence of social and ideological factors have rendered behaviours of cluster b personality disorders as prominent or advantageous, and thus the people afflicted with this "rise to prominence" and become more prominent?
Last night I encountered such a serious case of Media-Induced Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am still reeling. If you didn't know the guy is a serial rapist, racist (of course) and likes to put children in cages. And "everyone who does not absolutely hate him is of questionable morals". The mere mention of his name sends this person into a mouth-foaming hysterical fit. Couldn't get a word in. I honestly do not know what sort of treatment would make a dent here... Maybe some TDS cases are simply too far gone and we need to focus on helping the less affected ones?
I really believe there is a tremendous amount of mental illness that is being celebrated rather than treated.
Gender ideology is the perfect (but not only) example of just that
And there is definitely a difference between 'gender ideology' and having a non-standard gender.
And you, my dear Jane, appear to be hiding an ad behind your statement, "𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗴𝗹𝗼𝗯𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘀𝘁𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝗲𝘄 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗹𝗱 𝗼𝗿𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗽𝘂𝘁𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗠𝗥𝗡𝗔 𝘃𝗮𝘅 𝗶𝗻 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗳𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗱𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗻𝗼𝘄." If I click on the link in that statement, I get an ad for an e-book about foods that can be stored long-term. I'll resist clicking the 'Report' button, since you probably know that you can delete your ad link, and my response will disappear along with it.
Just a little hint to you that you were ever so gently warned about such blatant advertising of your product in the middle of a conversation.
I assume you live in the US, dear jane. Apologies if I'm wrong. But if you do and you eat 'organic' food - well, I have to laugh. The US government controls 'organic' food standards. Oh, my, isn't that a minefield of real conversation that we could open up.
If you are tempted to reply to this message, perhaps you could tell us whether you discuss 'organic food' in the book that you are advertising with the link you share in your reply to my post. Thanks, dear jane.
As a person who is 'mentally ill,' I would like to caution you about tarring all of us who are 'insane' with that 'need for treatment' brush. I do not intend to be 'treated' for my mental illness so that I can do a better job of conforming to consensus reality, especially the consensus reality that said I must submit to the covid vaccine 'for the good of others.'
Everyone alive, at least here in the West, has grown up in a culture with serious problems. Those problems have contributed greatly to the mental health problems afflicting a significant proportion of the population. Some of us have held onto our sanity despite displaying symptoms of mental illness. I don't wish to be 'celebrated' but a little less derision would be nice.
We are socialized into the culture into which we chance to be born. If we are born into a culture where cannibalism and child sacrifice are normal behaviors, we would be diagnosed as being possessed by an evil spirit by the Shaman, and be ostracized and shunned, if we failed to conform. The problem isn't individuals, rather the fucked up societies into which we are born.
I can't disagree. However, I am put in mind of something a friend once said to me. I was talking about a book I'd read that explored some indigenous culture - and I do not remember which one. He said that I shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of their culture. I replied that we shouldn't have romantic notions about the superiority of our culture either. Considering what I see when I look I around me - at least virtually - I have few illusions about the culture I live in.
It's strange though that when I talk to people in person I find people are still fairly sane, at least now that the covid madness has died down here in the UK. I have no close friends or family left in my life, so I only talk to strangers I meet in passing. So maybe that's a bad sample to work with. But I've found there are lots of people who will happily talk to an odd stranger like me. I've had people pour out their hopes, dreams, and fears in brief conversations. I try to accept it all with love, or at least as much love as this person can manage without getting too tired. Best wishes.
Completely agree.
I am so sorry if I offended you. I understand that many are able live very normal, if painful , lives. I was referring to those with serious illness.
Don't worry. You haven't offended me.
If by serious illness, you mean people who are institutionalised, happily I never have been. Unfortunately, large numbers of people take psychotropic drugs because 'modern medicine' can't seem to offer them other means of support.
I'd have to think about it some more, but I would probably put the boundaries of serious mental illness somewhere around the line of people with painful delusions that lead them to hurt themselves and sometimes others. The rest of us are just trying to cope in a messed up world.
I'm fortunate. I've found ways to live quite a satisfying life - even a happy one - despite the fact that I rarely interact with other people in person for more than a couple of minutes a day - I talk to strangers when I go out for walks or when I ride the train here in the UK. But it's taken a lot of thoughtful reflection for me to build that place for myself in my mind. Best wishes.
"Living your truth!"
My husband recently had the same encounter with a client who sent a nasty TDS email. (He actually has quite a few TDS clients). That client later called and apologized for his behavior but not his beliefs! He listed all the evil talking points as usual but when my husband would say common sense things like, “do you believe in open borders, do you believe in bail reform do you believe in funding foreign wars” the answers are of course always No! But “Orange Man Bad” is the best mind game trick our deep state has ever invented!
I called out a guy I sing with because he was starting to sling the "Nazi" term ... at his fellow singers. People he knew and encountered weekly and was quite aware that they were also just people who had a different opinion. At least at the time he was able to step back and see that he had crossed a line and stepped back for some real evaluation. He kind of realized that people having different political opinions did not automatically make them evil. He passed away before 2020 hit and was overall a nice guy, but the echo chamber can really rile folk up on all sides. :(
30% of these people are very ill and will never recover.
At least!
the left destroys people
the ends justify the means?
They are a visual example of trampling on their followers for their own shabby designs.
Liberals are not about liberty, they are about hate. They create hateful angry people.
and if they totally win , they will turn on themselves. Never politically correct enough, always behind on the latest thing, so must be "corrected" humiliated, othered, cancelled.
Where can we sign up? Sounds delightful!
: )
This is how it goes with all leftist collectivist movements, they always start out as “we’re doing it for the oppressed” and always ends up “well sure all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” The issue with making a fetish of being “marginalized” is that the most marginal then inevitably rise to the top of the hierarchy, with predictable consequences.
We were actually hoping that they would turn on themselves before they "totally win."
There is an interesting conversation between Tom Mazarro and Odessa on Rebel News wherein he describes the destructive behaviour of some of the Freedom Convoy "leaders."
Sadly, it would be challenging to insert sane people into the woke leadership.
The woke leadership is immune to sane. We would have to replace the leadership completely and guard against the creeping cretinism back in.
And yet they claim the opposite. They're "joyful warriors."
https://steady.substack.com/p/joyful-warriors
You mean like Kamala, the "joyful warrior" with a 94% employee turnover rate? I guess it was just too much "joy" for them to handle.
Dan Rather is a sickening horrible person. Dementia probably
Rosemary, you might want to go back and read what the gato said. I think you missed a bit of it. Projection can come from any direction.
You said 'Liberals...are about hate.' I am a liberal person. I do not make a practice of hating other people. I gave up on the 'left/right' spectrum a while back. I am not interested in creating 'hateful angry people.'
Please consider re-reading the piece and then trying to re-evaluate your position.
I'm glad you spoke up. Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." I call them "regressive." They abandoned liberalism years (perhaps even decades) ago. The regressives are driving true liberals out of the democrat party.
I don't have any problem with you labelling people you don't like as 'regressive.' If you're into labelling, well, who I am to tell you not to do that?
I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing? Personally, I'm at a stage in my life where I reject all labels for myself and for others. I'm trying to find activities that I find more productive.
I write long and sometimes fairly pedantic responses to posts here on Substack. I try to respond in a thought-filled manner, exploring issues raised, even casually.
Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'
I grew up in the 1960s. People used to say that 'the personal is political.' And boy is that true. Best wishes.
"I've had labels applied to me, including, excuse me 'TERF' and 'libtard.' Interesting how this one person - Me - could merit both of those labels, eh, Maizing?"
Why are you asking *me* this question? I've never called *anyone* either of those things.
"Where you and I must disagree is in your labelling of *anyone* as 'hateful people.' I will not move one step in the direction of dehumanising people, no matter how personally satisfying that might be on occasion. I have had other people try to dehumanise me because they did not like my 'political statements.'"
This is an odd thing for you to say. Aren't *you* labeling *me* as a 'hateful person who dehumanizes other people'?
Interesting question. Direct quote from you: "Personally, I don't call those hateful people "liberal." Apologies if you think I consider you 'hateful.' I don't mean to give that impression. I don't think that about you.
I was trying to say that labelling others as 'hateful' seems to lead people down a slippery slope that leads to dehumanisation.
It is important not to conflate “liberals” with “progressives”, as there is a huge difference. Actual liberals (like say the liberals of the ‘60s and ‘70s) believe in free speech, are anti-war, are skeptical of the government, tolerant of opposing views and in general believe in reason, logic and the ideals of the Enlightenment. George Carlin is a good example of the type. Progressives on the other hand wear the language of liberalism as a skin suit to fool the rubes into believing they are on the same side, but in reality progressivism is almost completely opposite to liberalism — progressives hate free speech, seem to love war (at least when directed to by the government), uncritically swallow any propaganda the government puts out there and in general believe in things like “lived experience” (aka, “unfalsifiable personal anecdotes”) and that reality is socially constructed. Not the same at all, and at a bare minimum people should stop calling these authoritarian leftists “liberals”.
You may or may not be familiar with Progressive Era of the early 20th century in the US. I just skimmed the Wikipedia article, and it seems like a fair representation of the basic issues - and I am very careful to not blindly trust Wikipedia. I tried, unsuccessfully, to find a book I read a few years ago about that era. My eyes were opened to at least recognising that weasel words are all around us.
Personally, I tend to respond to posts with words like 'liberal,' 'progressive' and the like because I am now at the point where I reject the use of any labels, since they are prone to divide people.
I prefer to explore issues and try to think about how we can move forward as human beings, rather than getting hung up in endless finger-pointing situations where we say 'You bad' - 'No you bad' - 'No you really bad'.
I'm 68. I don't have many years of life left. I want to nudge human beings - and maybe even the AI who is reading what we write. I want to nudge us toward talking to each other instead of labelling each other. So I write long-winded, thought-filled replies.
I was fortunate to see George Carlin in 1980 at a theatre in Dayton, Ohio. I laughed and found him fascinating. I don't remember a single word he said, but maybe I am channelling just a little bit of that dear man's spirit when I slowly and methodically analyse posts on Substack.
You seem rather certain that you know what progressives and liberals are all about. I've lived long enough to have seen the definition of both those words - and many others change over and over. It certainly can be satisfying to let your emotions express themselves in words like hate and love and propaganda. I just let the words wash over me, like so many other words I've seen.
I'll admit that I even used to indulge in that kind of language myself. But I like to think that as we grow older - if we are lucky enough to do so - we become wiser. Maybe we do. Maybe we don't
That's my 'lived experience,' Coco McShevitz. One thing that our culture has lost is respect for the wisdom of our elders. Now, our culture, - our shared, socially constructed reality that exists in our minds - our culture is pretty screwed up, so some of our elders - and our youngers - spout a bunch of nonsense. Oh, dear. Maybe I'm one of the elders spouting nonsense. I best be quiet now. I hope I addressed enough of what you said that you 'feel heard.' Best wishes.
the left wears the name tag of Liberals. So, ??
we are not the liberals wearing weird cry baby t shirts or ones with logos and rainbows
and forcing and eagerly accepting leftist ideals. they are not speaking up against their party, really not even the slightest bit more than the conservatives.
okay, SORRY I do understand what you are sensitive about.
How ever when I am speaking about "these people" and
The Left, I am not talking about us normal American people living our happy lives being conservative or liberal.
I am speaking specifically, pointing to these people that gaslight and are on our tvs, in the "news" in public forums, spouting their hate. They are "Obama's Army". I dislike them. Obama spoke in 2008 about having an Army. This is what he wanted
This is what I struggled with for years with an ex wife.she had a sharp tounge, a terrific grasp of language, a mind incapable of logical thought, and an extremely fragile ego.
To disagree with her on any subject was a personal attack on her very being.
Many people just like her today
I just checked out Karen's substack. Ooooh she is on fire and has so many many many subscribers to read her words of wisdom.
That said, every liberal I know is like this. Some are very outspoken and rattle off to any one at any opportunity. The other half just wants to sit down and obey
there certainly is no shortage of these virtue signaling backrub circles where everyone loudly proclaims allegiance to the current orthodoxy, is there?
Agree and yet, we need to try. I’m getting furious with those who want 4 more years of “this”. There’s no way to opt out if Harris wins. You’re describing my neighborhood except for a few. Just ordered my yard signs.
These people were probably already mentally ill. It doesn’t take much to push a borderline personality disorder who watches TV all day completely over the edge. They never had any rational thought to begin with, and they already had a very tenuous grasp on reality anyway. I have a family member that is as you say- and they are a high functioning borderline schizophrenic who always had a difficult time with reality before all this. The Fourth Estate is morally bankrupt and has driven people to absolute madness.
If they are schizophrenic what can you do for them? They are like someone out to sea, succumbing to the undertow of their disease, and occasionally they tread water and are lucid, but other times their mash up of reality/fantasy takes over and you hear snippets of the Bible, Star Trek reruns, and their central role in all of history.
Problem is, many of the worst of these people are not necessarily BPD, or watch TV all day; in fact, they're often very well 'educated', hold mid-high positions in various professions (but notably academia), and are extremely busy people. In fact, I think their busy-ness and the specialisation within their chosen field (and the narrowness of scope that brings), and the lack of time to read widely has caused them to become ignorant about much outside of their chosen fields - to seem 'informed' about what is going on in the world they latch on to whatever is spoon-fed to them by their most popular liberal news source (as well as the Guardian :) ) these are the worst because they think of themselves as so smart and well-regarded within their field, the idea that they are broadly ignorant is too much for them.
I think TDS is a form of narcissism where the person demanding we comply with their thinking is the best, the smartest, the all-knowing. Narcissism and hoarding are the only two mental disorders that cannot be successfully treated. So we have that.
The one thing that occurs to me (depending on your own relationship with this person, what they think of you personally), would be to then ask: ok, so you are describing me as a person of questionable morals, and I assume even worse if I actually support the guy. What, outside of Trump leads you to this conclusion about me? Do you think I believe all the things by which you described Trump, and yet choose to support him anyway? What about me would lead you to think that I would dismiss lightly such allegations?
Scapegoating is the same concept, maybe just a secondary phase. Projecting is assigning one's inner shadows to another. Scapegoating is then wanting to destroy that person.
...because you think they reflect your own shadow of which you are unaware? Is that right?
That's correct. It's a ultimately psychological coping mechanism. Breaking through to the person is similar to getting a person to admit to an addiction.
Or that they are in a cult.
They're not mutually exclusive.
It is my favorite thing about Trump. Their reaction. Covid was similar. You get to see who the real crazies, “good Germans”, and everyone else incapable of original thought. Also, always a good time to cull relationships:)
Trump and Covid are reacting against the same thing, and it's perception vs. reality. They are silent when you explain to them that "warp speed" was approved by Trump. .
Read 1984.
It’s here
"what sort of treatment would make a dent here" Maybe a hammer?
No treatment would work. You'd have to have friends who tell you the truth and engage you in real conversations about important ideas. A precursor to that is that you'd have to be willing to, and want to have friends who have different ideas and who you respect enough to engage with regarding those ideas.
My guess is that people like this have none of that.
This is the openness that Jordan Peterson talks about and I don't think these 'liberals' actually have an iota of that.
For them it’s too much of a risk to have friends with opposite views. They have to protect their mental health and Joy, they say. Life is too short to be around negative people they will say. They can’t handle the anger and anxiety caused “by them”, (sadly it’s caused by their own reactions and their own lack of critical thinking and lack of ability to have thoughtful discussions, not by those who believe differently than them.)
I sort of understand how hard it is to be around someone who endlessly parrots the preferred narrative that opposes what I’m thinking/believing, and who doesn’t stop to thoughtfully consider something I say. Their only goal is to be right in the discussion and shove down my throat what’s wrong with my views without ever really discussing what I actually said. At some point I do need to get away from that negative energy. So then I wonder if that’s how they feel talking to me. How can I rephrase my views into questions that provoke new lines of thought instead? I see it modeled by some of you and I’m grateful for that. It’s hard for me. I’ve never learned that skill and I think it’s time I learn to develop it.
But I’m not parroting preferred narratives either, I’m actually presenting my own original thoughts. So when I’m accused of being brainwashed by Trump b.s., as I often am in comments sections, it’s confusing. It’s as if my views can only be possible through brainwashing. Well we certainly accuse them of that same thing. Hmmm
But I DO see a difference, I just don’t know how to articulate it. I guess I can tell when I’m talking to someone that does not ever want to change how they think no matter what is said, and it’s not worth my time. Those are the people I walk away from.
But recently someone pointed out negative views about Trump and his past “failures”, and while it bothered me I am allowing myself to consider his views and think about if and how it would ever affect his presidency. I found myself feeling that at this point given the two choices we have that have a realistic chance of being elected, one is definitely more dangerous to our freedoms and to the constitution, and it’s not Trump. Therefore, any valid points about concerns over his past inactions are not worth discussing right now as it could sway people from voting for him and that’s a greater danger than anything about him is. But I’m willing to think more and discuss those points further AFTER he is in office. One would say that’s stupid because once he is in office you can’t get him out. Well - I wouldn’t want to. 😂 Harris or whoever the deep state wants in will ALWAYS be far worse than Trump, so no amount of opening my eyes to his faults and past sins are going to matter. He needs to win. Those among us who think they are all corrupt and voting for any of them is a loss are hurting this election deeply.
You have to have a real relationship to engage in a potentially tense discussion about important ideas. Creating the groundwork for that relationship takes time. The fact that a lot of people have been willing to write off previously (perceivedly) loved family members because of the political divide (which existed before but they weren't bothered about it as much because their 'betters' hadn't told them to focus their entire telos around it) shows just how much is required of that relationship. It requires honesty, commitment, intelligence, fairness, justice, and sanity.
You ain't gonna get that from a propaganda spouting comrade.
I'd hate to be the one doing that triage.
It's really TDS induced PTSD.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Clapter has become so cringe, it is unintentional comedy gold. Colbert and his audience should rewatch his vax-scene shilling to gain self awareness laughing at their own absurdity.
There are a million examples of shamelessness and government/pharma/media shilling over the last four years.
Colbert’s Vax-Scene bit gets my vote for the most egregious and disgusting display of them all.
But who knew we had a budding June Taylor Dancer???
Are people too old to get your reference? I laughed!
Same
I meant "too young", of course!
And why Gutfeld is wiping the floor with Colbert, Kimmel and Fallon… their 9 year run of ridiculing Trump is finally no longer funny… well, not that it actually ever was….
"Karen" sounds like a tenured professor of "Misinformation and Democracy" at Shitstain University, with Current Thing icons on her X account, and a Hate Doesn't Live Here sign on her lawn, which she will shoo you off of while opening that second bottle of Pinot Gris while masturbating to Rachel Maddow.
hahahaha
ewwwww
😂😂😂😂😂
Beautiful!!🤣🤣
Rachel Maddow🤢🤮
Literally dying 😂 😂
It’s never been easier to manipulate the public, and it’s never been easier to tear the veil. We have the receipts *instantaneously*. Imagine the Trump assassination attempt reported in the 60s. You’d know nothing. But we had the news before they decided on the spin. Yes, we had a lot of dreck, but we just keep shaking the sieve. Even when they win, they’re losing.
Funny how CNN was there to cover that rally—the first time in almost a year. Just like they were there for the Mara Lago raid and the raid on Roger Stone. So sad. If the moon landing had taken place today, I’m sure they would have been there to film the first landing.
THIS. "similarly, you know who agrees that gay people should not groom children? most gay people. just like most straight people think straight people should not sexually groom children. no adult should, that’s kind of the point, no? seriously, what does sexual orientation even have to do with it? pro tip: it doesn’t."
And on that note, a PSA: Nobody cares about your sexuality, really. https://jennasside.rocks/p/i-dislike-chocolate-wheres-my-parade
AH!, Jenna....but you are wrong.....THEY really care about THEIR sexuality. It is the only interesting thing about them (don't try to plumb the shallowness of that - you don't have time).
I grew up in the seventies where Freddy Mercury, Elton John, The Village People, and a couple other musicians were considered "eccentric." I remember watching some sort of show about Liberace and thinking "that guy really likes pianos." It's true, as kids, we didn't ruminate on their sexuality.
MLHVM brings up a very interesting idea about identity. What we identify as reveals things about ourselves. People who are confused about their sexuality do care about other's sexuality because of the topic of this post "shadow projection." If you want to identify someone's insecurities, see what they are burning calories about...and identifying themselves as.
I think at times we do wonder about other's sexuality when there is an incongruity. Like before Lance Bass admitted he was gay, there was a bunch of question marks, and the more ambiguity that presented itself, the more people wondered.
A lot of my energy is still on checking in at twitter, and telling people the good news that "masks do not work." Why do I do this? Because they need to know more and more, miles from shore, that there is land and that drifting along on the seas of the covid narrative is not a good place to be...especially when you demand others participate in it.
Do I think they will wake up, and take off the facial germ factory on their face? No. But I don't want to end up on Uber rides and in doctor's offices participating, or being pressured to participate in ridiculous rituals that reinforce restrictive regulations.
Aaah, alliteration 👍
The other side of the projection concept is that sometimes traits in others that piss you off can be unconscious, unrecognized traits in yourself. I've learned the hard way that when someone does something that really irritates me, to stop for a second and ask myself if this is something I do and, if so, that could explain why I'm so irritated by it. Sometimes, a little introspection along these lines will reveal unpleasant truths about yourself, but in the long run, is very helpful.
"Before removing the splinter from the eye of another, remove the plank from your own."
Projection is a two-way street, in more ways than one.
I'm not a Christian, but several times recently I've quoted various versions of "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Yes, and a psychologically astute point. Self awareness is required for mental well being. Also, when you want something you think someone else isn’t giving you and dwelling on that, check out if you are giving it to him/her. Usually not. It takes more effort than most people realize, and this is not only about people with obvious struggles. It’s a human thing. People who think they possess mental health just because they aren’t like ___ (insert whatever the individuals bias is) are merely unconscious about how much of their mind isn’t clear. It takes effort to be optimally healthy or well in any dimension and mind/body are 2 integrated anyhow. Like Bob Marley sings in Redemption Song “Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, None but ourselves can free our minds.” I always cringe when I read or hear splitting, another defense mechanism that causes great damage, like the Woke are crazy and everyone else sane. Really? Where’d they come from? Another planet? Nope, our society, ordinary families. If our society is sick, it’s because we are all contributing to that. Most of the Woke people I’ve talked to, in my rural area, came from conservative, usually religious, dysfunctional families (with religious abuse mixed in for good effect) and became virulently against anything that reminds them of their family. Not saying that every case turns into a Woke person. Those are usually the ones who rebelled and fought to reject what hurt them. There are those who turned to compliance strategies and have more mixed views as a result. The Woke are the bastard offspring of the old Moral Majority brigade. They are the Jungian shadow of each other. It’s why they are always pointing fingers at each other, along with casting blame at each other, talking about each other, seeing the other as sick, if even human, instead of self reflecting about how society got so sick, how everyone is part of it and so how have YOU been affected by it, where’s your sickness, and what are you doing about it. The Deep State certainly loves fanning the flames of division so people stay in their respective lane’s hurling accusations back and forth instead of taking responsibility for self and empowering yourself to be a positive agent of change. A strong tide lifts all boats up or become the change you want to see in the world. But that takes work and real courage: looking inward and taking responsibility.
I disagree that Colbert's studio audience can be presumed ultra-left. People who go to show tapings are usually tourists in LA/NYC. (I've lived in both; locals don't usually do that.) Who goes on vacation to a big city? People who don't live in big cities. So we can presume that at least half are non-urbanites, who tend to be more conservative than city folk. Just a thought.
You're ignoring the fact that only the left can stand Colbert these days. I wouldn't attend a taping even if I was on vacation in NYC for a decade.
They are not conservatives or we would hear puking noises.
LOL
Most voters under 50 don't care about CNN and think it's a joke, right or left.
It's similar to how liberals think all right wingers watch Fox News. Yeah, sure; the old ones.
In the DC area it's probably different but who cares about that horrid place? It's not representative.
As a resident of greater DC area, I agree with you. It's pretty horrid, and not representative of the country 😄
I'm over 50, and I can't remember having a desire to watch CNN.
Wow.
Would it be fair to assume that the people who attend a Colbert show taping are Colbert fans, regardless of where they are from?
Probably, but the way some show tapings work is that you sign up for any ticket you can get for that day, regardless of what the show is.
if I was on "vacation" to NYC or LA, going to a Colbert show would not even
be something I would be interested in. I would imagine I would be surrounded by Colbert worshipers.
Imagine what a massive waste of time it would be. Plus I don't think a lot of busy people want to be told when to laugh and clap like seals.
Really? I'm not sure if I have any conservative friends who would be interested in watching a live Colbert show. Is admission free? Even then...
Maybe they would be interested in ironically watching it?
The laughter on that show sounds canned to me. I wondered if the laugh button guy just hit it at the wrong moment.
But, I will say, you make a good point.
It’s scary out there. Delusional, on both sides. Trump/Musk conversation: “how do I see it?” It’s audio. “Oh, I don’t like that”. Or, Dana Bash said Elon/Trump said Hiroshima was no big deal” (intentional wicked editing). Shocked yesterday when a person I felt was knowledgeable said what many say: “I don’t like either candidate”. Please - play on repeat after saying key words, border, speech, freedom, inflation, crime, lawfare, censorship… - A VOTE IS NOT A VALENTINE. Don’t underestimate the sheep.
Echo chambers of ideas result in regurgitation of what you are told to think/say. The woke crowd have been taught that the '-ist' words are like the Staples easy button for winning debates. They truly believe this. When pushed further, the cracks in the porcelain start to show and their argument becomes a $7.99 vase from Home Goods instead of a Ming Dynasty heirloom.
I've been called many things by these folks. I once put a 'Karen' professor into reset mode after she called me racist for not supporting affirmative action. I simply responded by asking if our history of telling American black people that they need help is perpetuating the problem. That maybe a certain number of our population are inherently guilty for the wrongs of their past ancestors that they must now act as 'savior' of those wronged. In doing so, they are condemning those people's future to the same subservience, but just in a different form. Got kicked out of class and failed for the semester....it was the 3rd week. Luckily, I worked a deal to make it an audited class through my department head so it just looked like I withdrew from it. Amazing the lengths these people will go to keep their dream (nightmare?) alive. She attempted the educational equivalent of "lawfare" on me. Silence through force, not debate.
The professor's reaction to your comments indicate that you were right over the target. A competent professor who really believed in their position deep down would have replied with a strong counter-argument. The "lawfare" response just shows that she had no real counter-argument.
During 40 years of running a construction development company, I came to realize that the people who feared you might cheat them in a deal were the ones you needed to watch out for. They inevitably tried to cheat. It is uncanny how often it proved true.
I would like to make it known we have no objections to humans using the R-word to describe each other (and cats).
This position was clarified long ago: https://ratsays.substack.com/p/insults
I'd explain this to Karen, but cannot locate the note in questions. Anyone got a link?
https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/cringe-is-our-brand/comment/65326350
Thanks!
Amen to this. My views are all over the board and depend on the unique circumstances of the case. I've been consistently both antiwar and antivaccine for a few decades. For this I've been accused of being a terrorist sympathizer who would maybe learn my lesson after my Muslim "husband" brutally raped me. I've also been called a Trumptard who doesn't understand anything that happens outside of America who should go back to my (American, presumably) football games. I've been accused of killing babies with my insistence that the costs and benefits of jabs overwhelmingly don't stand up to scrutiny.
I see all the lonely people, to quote the Beatles...
It seems as though if you worship your own intellect (despite not really having much of one), you're forced into defending it using any means necessary. If your opponent is correct, you're on the wrong side of not just the bell curve, but history as well, so they can't possibly be correct.
It's like Haidt's elephant and rider, but instead of the elephant being a belief in some sort of fundamentalist god, it's belief that they're at the top of the intellectual and moral food chain... So the McDonalds wrapper they found in a dumpster that they're licking the cheese off of *has to be* filet mignon.
So it's stupid people who think they are smart using what limited brains they have to feel smart, while looking like imbeciles to everyone else.
It's often though not stupid people but people who've been raised to see life as a formula and unexpected results terrify them.
Good point! Anything at all to make the uncertainty stop…
I appreciate this comment. Thank you
True, but using your intellect, even if it is above average (which in the case mentioned in the stack above is clearly *not* the case) to justify a belief that is persistently at odds with reality is a form of stupidity.
It is more excusable if you have a reputation or career at stake (as may be the case with some academics), but if eating a little crow now can save you from eating a buffet of crow later, and all that is at stake is your obviously fragile self-image, that's a kind of stupidity that really has no peer.
i would argue that there is a meaningful difference along the lines of delusion as self-protection.
dogmatism is not really related to intelligence and many of the most dogmatic are able to be so BECAUSE they are intelligent and therefore able to create detailed and cunning delusions to inhabit in order to protect their core beliefs from contact with reality.
nothing runs downhill faster than a thoroughbred.
if you read karen's stack, she does not seems stupid. she writes well and organized thoughts intelligibly. they are just hallucinatory thoughts engaging with "opposition" that's wholly pastiche.
intelligence is orthogonal to stable identity and self-awareness, and may actually be inverse to ability to handle criticism and contradiction.
Great summation, not just of "Karen" but of the confusion re: intelligence and how it relates to the rest of our minds (or spirits, souls, whatever your preference).
A conflict over an issue, any issue, can either be approached in such a way that you try to solve the issue, or it can be approached in a win-lose way.
It can be sketched out as variant of the Prisoner's dilemma-type of thought-exercises.
I took a quick look at her stack. Being able to write adequately and organize ones thoughts doesn't necessarily mean one isn't stupid. She doesn't recognize the flaws in her arguments (which are all unoriginal) and she is completely infected with tribalism that boils down to Democrats-liberals wonderful/Republicans-conservatives fascists. All of her thinking depends upon this central intellectually bankrupt premise. She also seems to really have it in for those who find both sides contemptible but have discussions with those from either side who are more reasonable and open minded; thus the many attacks on Taibbi. She can't get over the fact that, as a person with good critical thinking skills, he looked around at the modern democrats and said screw this nonsense.
I think that she probably posted here for the same reason she goes after Taibbi: nobody reads her and if she can come to a very popular stack and make some noise she might get some attention. But she certainly won't get many subscribers.
I guess it all comes down to if you consider "intelligence" to be best evidenced by a process or a result.
If it's best evidenced by a performing a process like "solve for X", then, sure.
If it's best evidenced by reaching an optimal outcome, but there's nothing to prevent garbage-in-garbage-out, then no.
So this is a semantic discussion. I maintain that these people are stupid based on the latter definition.
My problem is the definition of stupid. I always considered "stupid" to be a "lack of capacity for reasoned thought" You wouldn't expect a chimpanzee to login to twitter, or that someone born with a cognitive development issue would compose a sonnet. Because they can't. Or would not think to. Maybe you could "teach" someone with a cognitive disabilility to compose a sonnet, but are they actually composing something using the restrictions and rules associated with a sonnet, or are they doing it because they wanted to please the teacher?
I think there should be a different term than "stupid" for those who succumb to whatever ashe experiment influences their life. Bonhoeffer called it "being made stupid."
To my thinking, Intelligent people recognize they can't think about everything, so they rely on institutions to "carry on thinking" for them and they can trust in those institutions to due their due diligence in an ethical manner. This sadly can easily turn to laziness. And this is what I think actually occurs. "Lazy thinking." It's not actual stupidity, because they have the capacity to think and reason out such issues, but because of their reliance and trust on these institutions, it has led to them conforming and behaving in stupid ways.
Perhaps "active" vs "passive" would cover it? Same as with reading or consuming any other information-product. Actively reading a novel is very different from lazily flipping through the pages of something you already can glean the outcome of from page 1 (traditional superhero comics f.e.).
It is analogous I think to how confirmation bias work: If I pick up a paper like Reason Magazine, I know what to expect - same if I pick up Jacobin; knowing in advance means I'm likely to turn my brainpower down, rather than up (path of least resistance), to save energy.
Considering the torrent of information we are subjected to 24/7/365 it's no wonder increasing numbers of people go for the "stupid" approach: it takes too much energy, time and other resources to do anything but.
When one's world is held together by very fragile structures, admitting any faults is terrifying.
You are an anti-orange-snackist! You hate orange snack foods! Your kind always lick the orange dust off the chips and poofs and pretend no one else can see your orange tongue. You are one of those closet cases who will get caught in hotel room one day by the cops, on the bed, buried in cheetohs and doritos and cheezy-poofs and BBQ chips, rubbing them all over your junk with a bunch of other perverted closet cases. You all act like anti-orange-snackists but the problem is in you, deeply in YOU.
Dood, you need to come to grips with the truth: you secretly want to be an orange snack food. It's Ok...it's natural. Some people can't help but to want to be dusty, orange, and tasty! Come outta the closet! Get a grip on the truth of your own snackuality. Do it before you wind up at a grocery store with a 500-round ARK-47-15, shooting people who try to buy a bag BBQ potato chips or cheetohs!
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-make-your-own-South-Park-Cheesy-Poofs-4-/
Cheezy poofs are the best, particularly the Utz Cheese balls. My cats always liked to chase them all over the floors. They make a satisfying crunch when you step on them (the cheese balls, not the cats - don't ever do that).
When I was still on FB, during the 2016 election- a “liberal” posted “I can’t wait until Hillary wins and all you fucking retards can move to Texas or hell” something along those lines. I chimed in saying- congrats. What a loving and inclusive statement. Thanks for sharing the joy. Something like that. It was an immediate dog pile. Dozens of word salad attacks coming at me. Trumptard, racist, xenophobe, yada yada. I never mentioned Trump. It was impossible to respond because most of the replies weren’t even intelligible English. Just copy and paste of word salads from the NYT or WaPo. I knew even before then that we were totally screwed. And yeah, a LOT of these people seriously think that CNN and MSLSD are the real news. The HBO series Succession had this dialogue. The evil right wing media was destroying the world- BUT - “You guys follow the story no matter where it leads and report the TRUTH- RIGHT???” I have a buddy who is soooo demented with his views on things. I sent him some vaxx data and said don’t worry- Anderson Cooper will be doing a deep dive any day now. His response- Anderson Cooper is THE MAN!!!! As his buddies are dropping dead all around him. “Cancer sucks”. Yeah, especially when it never had to happen at all.