I'm by no means a vaccin supporter, but I see these statistics pop up on skeptic sites, but no offence, the data is not homogenous and the conclusions hence likely non-meaningful. You would at the minimum need to know the local situation on the ground to know you are not missing things.
In general the vaxed population is older, and eve…
I'm by no means a vaccin supporter, but I see these statistics pop up on skeptic sites, but no offence, the data is not homogenous and the conclusions hence likely non-meaningful. You would at the minimum need to know the local situation on the ground to know you are not missing things.
In general the vaxed population is older, and even if you break out in age brackets you would still see its effects if the age brackets are not too small - e.g. the 10 year standard intervals would put a 79 with the 70's and not with the 80's. Also non-vaxxed is in many regions skewed to recovered. The US denies natural immunity, the EU allows for 1 shot and get your vax passport. In some EU countries even just being recovered gives you a pass. This allows unvaxed to stay unvaxed and continue to work and participate in life. The same effect when comparing 1 state to another. In red states you can stay unvaxed and not be an outcast.
Also in many EU countries they test like mad using cheap antigen tests, especially under the young population. Mixing this with PCR results yields possibly non-meaningful results as the latter tests any exposure while many antigen need much high dose to yield a positive test.
Last behaviour differs in different regions. Scared US libs behaved dramatically different before and after being vaxed, but for unvaxed it was not much different and more dependent on what happened to be allowed or not by the government. In the EU different countries will have different behaviour trends too. Often forced by government policies.
Based on what we know about Omicron it infects more in the higher lungs where vaxed antibodies makes no difference. So it is expected that we see vaxed being infected in higher numbers than Delta. Natural immunity also exists in the throat, so recovered would see a lower number. If recovered is higher represented in one age group, tested group or vaxed vs unvaxed, your numbers would be immediately off simply by what we know of Omicron.
Hence, I'm sorry, but I think these results are likely an effect of your data set. That is, the vaccines are clearly failing, but there is no known immunological reason why vaccines would make it worse. There is however a good understanding - though no acknolegment from the health ofocielals obviously - why the vaxines are failing over time and also why delta and omicron even more evade them in general.
(And before someone posts the eugyppius article - he is wrong as he misunderstands, how T cells work. :-) )
Vanden Bossche has articulated a plausible mechanism for negative efficacy - natural antibodies, which supplement pattern recognition receptor-based innate cellular immunity, are out-competed by residual anti-S antibodies. Other than that, I agree with your ambivalence to the VE stats from Europe.
I'm by no means a vaccin supporter, but I see these statistics pop up on skeptic sites, but no offence, the data is not homogenous and the conclusions hence likely non-meaningful. You would at the minimum need to know the local situation on the ground to know you are not missing things.
In general the vaxed population is older, and even if you break out in age brackets you would still see its effects if the age brackets are not too small - e.g. the 10 year standard intervals would put a 79 with the 70's and not with the 80's. Also non-vaxxed is in many regions skewed to recovered. The US denies natural immunity, the EU allows for 1 shot and get your vax passport. In some EU countries even just being recovered gives you a pass. This allows unvaxed to stay unvaxed and continue to work and participate in life. The same effect when comparing 1 state to another. In red states you can stay unvaxed and not be an outcast.
Also in many EU countries they test like mad using cheap antigen tests, especially under the young population. Mixing this with PCR results yields possibly non-meaningful results as the latter tests any exposure while many antigen need much high dose to yield a positive test.
Last behaviour differs in different regions. Scared US libs behaved dramatically different before and after being vaxed, but for unvaxed it was not much different and more dependent on what happened to be allowed or not by the government. In the EU different countries will have different behaviour trends too. Often forced by government policies.
Based on what we know about Omicron it infects more in the higher lungs where vaxed antibodies makes no difference. So it is expected that we see vaxed being infected in higher numbers than Delta. Natural immunity also exists in the throat, so recovered would see a lower number. If recovered is higher represented in one age group, tested group or vaxed vs unvaxed, your numbers would be immediately off simply by what we know of Omicron.
Hence, I'm sorry, but I think these results are likely an effect of your data set. That is, the vaccines are clearly failing, but there is no known immunological reason why vaccines would make it worse. There is however a good understanding - though no acknolegment from the health ofocielals obviously - why the vaxines are failing over time and also why delta and omicron even more evade them in general.
(And before someone posts the eugyppius article - he is wrong as he misunderstands, how T cells work. :-) )
Vanden Bossche has articulated a plausible mechanism for negative efficacy - natural antibodies, which supplement pattern recognition receptor-based innate cellular immunity, are out-competed by residual anti-S antibodies. Other than that, I agree with your ambivalence to the VE stats from Europe.