This is a very interesting place the two of you have arrived at.
I agree with Shy Boy in that voting at all is contradictory to becoming ungovernable, but not with the subsequent ad hominem hissy fit.
“Ungovernable” needs to be better defined, imo. It can’t just mean noncompliance, because that will result in legally justifiable punitive …
This is a very interesting place the two of you have arrived at.
I agree with Shy Boy in that voting at all is contradictory to becoming ungovernable, but not with the subsequent ad hominem hissy fit.
“Ungovernable” needs to be better defined, imo. It can’t just mean noncompliance, because that will result in legally justifiable punitive action from the government, will it not?
Strictly speaking, being ungovernable must mean being outside the government’s jurisdiction. (Ironically, that cannot be done by a resident of Puerto Rico as it is a territory and not a state.)
Removing oneself from the government’s jurisdiction requires understanding how, when, why, and by whom said jurisdiction was established in the first place. Without having considered such fundamental questions I don’t think meaningful answers to our current predicament are possible, hence the (imho) contradictory assertion of this post.
Sorry for the "hissy fit". I guess I wasn't very clear enough. I used to be a libertarian myself, but that was long ago. I even used to run with self-identified "anarchists" and I'm pretty tired of cheap anti-voting rhetoric.
In brief, I think "ungovernable" is nonsense, and the libertarian ideological position is blind to so many aspects of human experience and culture that it's ultimately self-defeating. Once you become aware of the identity and nature of our "governors" and start examining the actual mechanisms and strategies of their "governance", you'll find it extends well beyond what we normally think of as "government".
I advocate thorough and strategic participation in politics, especially at the local level. Mere voting doesn't cut it. I also advocate non-participation in other forms of social control, and most importantly, the development of genuinely sustainable defenses and alternatives. It's much more difficult and extensive than what I understand gato to be advocating here.
Here's a Christian take on all that, from Andrew Torba (you know, the GAB guy).
I don't think Torba has all the answers (like, at all) but I think he's closer to an effective strategy than this post, which is long on (to me, obvious) problems and short on (to me, believable) solutions.
People like the Gab founder are fooling themselves. There’s nowhere left to run. His paragraph about how you have to get the Hell out of Dodge and build something somewhere else is what every group of Pilgrims from every failed state ruled by monarchs has said for thousands of years. North America was the last place to go, and the West Coast the last land to inhabit. All successful people who generate great wealth with their liberty and enterprise will *always* be targeted by these thieves and tyrants. There is no place to run. You can build, but you’re going to have to be prepared to fight to keep whatever it is, because when they come, they’ll come in a huge mass, starving and armed to the teeth. And the longer you wait, the better organized and armed they will be.
This is a very interesting place the two of you have arrived at.
I agree with Shy Boy in that voting at all is contradictory to becoming ungovernable, but not with the subsequent ad hominem hissy fit.
“Ungovernable” needs to be better defined, imo. It can’t just mean noncompliance, because that will result in legally justifiable punitive action from the government, will it not?
Strictly speaking, being ungovernable must mean being outside the government’s jurisdiction. (Ironically, that cannot be done by a resident of Puerto Rico as it is a territory and not a state.)
Removing oneself from the government’s jurisdiction requires understanding how, when, why, and by whom said jurisdiction was established in the first place. Without having considered such fundamental questions I don’t think meaningful answers to our current predicament are possible, hence the (imho) contradictory assertion of this post.
Sorry for the "hissy fit". I guess I wasn't very clear enough. I used to be a libertarian myself, but that was long ago. I even used to run with self-identified "anarchists" and I'm pretty tired of cheap anti-voting rhetoric.
In brief, I think "ungovernable" is nonsense, and the libertarian ideological position is blind to so many aspects of human experience and culture that it's ultimately self-defeating. Once you become aware of the identity and nature of our "governors" and start examining the actual mechanisms and strategies of their "governance", you'll find it extends well beyond what we normally think of as "government".
I advocate thorough and strategic participation in politics, especially at the local level. Mere voting doesn't cut it. I also advocate non-participation in other forms of social control, and most importantly, the development of genuinely sustainable defenses and alternatives. It's much more difficult and extensive than what I understand gato to be advocating here.
Here's a Christian take on all that, from Andrew Torba (you know, the GAB guy).
https://news.gab.com/2022/11/the-path-forward-build-and-balkanize/
I don't think Torba has all the answers (like, at all) but I think he's closer to an effective strategy than this post, which is long on (to me, obvious) problems and short on (to me, believable) solutions.
Cheers!
People like the Gab founder are fooling themselves. There’s nowhere left to run. His paragraph about how you have to get the Hell out of Dodge and build something somewhere else is what every group of Pilgrims from every failed state ruled by monarchs has said for thousands of years. North America was the last place to go, and the West Coast the last land to inhabit. All successful people who generate great wealth with their liberty and enterprise will *always* be targeted by these thieves and tyrants. There is no place to run. You can build, but you’re going to have to be prepared to fight to keep whatever it is, because when they come, they’ll come in a huge mass, starving and armed to the teeth. And the longer you wait, the better organized and armed they will be.