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Charlotte's avatar

Coffee in hand and I’m realizing I’m not crazy for wanting to catch Delta before the SHTF and hospitals are overrun and panicking. Maybe we go back to the trend chicken pox/ COVID parties before it gets worse so we get more folks with natural immunity?

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Marc Girardot's avatar

There are a few key drivers you have put aside, that in my opinion change drastically the perspective.

If one talks about Mareks disease, one needs to consider that chickens are by definition naive immunologically to the disease (as recent newborns) and also living in a high dose/high transmission environments. In other words, there's no buffer to contamination in the community, so the doses are crazy high and the chicken are literally petri dishes for anything being produced into this high density environment. The collective immunity being close to zero, the high viral density in the environment is most lethal element.

With Covid19, we are far from these circumstances. We don't live in feedlots (not yet!), and we had high pre-existing collective immunity. We weren't naive to SARS-COV2 as proven by tens of studies that showed high levels of cross-reactive T-cells/B-cells etc... Hence the asymptomatics.

Now, if one believe Mareks theory, as the outcome of a non-specific immunization, widely spread cross-immunity would have pushed for more immune evasion... we didn't see this at all for at least 12 months. On the contrary, SARS-COV2 swept thru Hyderabad (up to 70%) in 2020 with 9 out 10 infected not aware of being infected.

I would like to question the validity of 2 strong assumptions you are building upon. You are making the strong assumption that:

a) these intramuscular vaccine work: I personally don't see how that is possible with an intramuscular shot that will not address any of the root causes of severe Covid: obesity-induced ACE-2 density (a viral fertilizer), very delayed immune response (lacking dendritics) tied to immunosenescence (the "alarm" is off), and mucosal cell-to-cell propagation (Abs are useless then). As demonstrated in the "Recovered", only a mucosal vaccine could trigger sterilising and effective immunity by triggering protection in the entry point of the virus.

The "magic trick" of changing the vaccine cohort baseline by depleting it of the frailest individuals - who effectively succumb to AEs - has clearly biased the RCTs (very visible in the Israeli trial) stripping the vaccine cohorts of the most sensitive population and "improving" its performance, while at the same time worsening the unvaccinated cohort and the severity of the virus.

b) CFR is corrrect: You are assuming these people are dying of Covid, not with Covid, of mislabelling or worse of the vaccine. (1) we know how outrageously overcounted the cases/deaths have been in many countries (the US notably). So cases being garbage-in/Garbage-out, one cannot build a serious scientific argument on it. (2) it is quite obvious, that many have died from intravenous injection/leak of the vaccines into the bloodstream. The systematic simultaneity of Covid deaths with vaccination is simply impossible from a probability standpoint: UK, Israel, Chile, Vietnam, Seychelles, Laos, Cambodia...The autopsies, the VAERS data, the discrepancies in the UK data from January onward (in 2021, patients don't call 111 before dying...wtf?!)...

I would add that variants aren't stopping recovered from fighting it off easily...Variants are a fallacy to sell yearly vaccines. The wide epitope repertoire both for T-cells and abs are sufficient to be immune as proven by the iconic article of the La Jolla Institute in January 2021.

We have all been trying to avoid the looking at reality in the eyes...

The idea that variants explain 2 or 3 waves in the same season makes no sense. Depleted susceptibles cannot get replenished in a week or so like we 'have seen in the UK, in Sweden, in Hungary, countels countries....so what are those cases? well one very possible hypothesis, is that they are vaccine-induced Covids tied to direct injection in the blood vessels by untrained nurses and doctors, and/or that the LNPs leak back into the bloodstream. Whichever the reason, having 20-50 billion LNPs starting to transfect endothelial cells in a concentrated fashion in microvessels, followed by T-cells destroying square meters of the vessel walls is not good. I would add that, the very elderly - the very ones we are trying to save - would also have delayed response, and would thus produce enormously more spike proteins than immune valid adults.

Finally, I would like to point a different risk tied to generalized vaccination of an already immune population. As a sophisticated bio-software, the immune system has likely a feedback loop to adjust its response: if one is already immune, following vaccination, the immune system would necessary launch a very wide response (intramuscular infection is way past a mucosal attack), T-cells would rapidly destroy those transfected cells and a large number of Tcells would have to anergize pretty quickly. Done twice, it is highly probable that the vaccine would adjust down its response to avoid off-target damage and waste of ressources. Generalised to a population that could mean the vaccines could have collectively reduced our immunity level, which would mean the ambient viral density would be much higher going forward...When one acknowledges that dose and immunity are the 2 most critical factors in mortality, that could be disastrous.

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