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Already seeing this behavior in my kids: they don’t trust online interactions or information. Not only have they participated in the “fake memories” of an Instagram post, but they have been burned by viral stories that turned out to be a lie.

All four of my kids have voluntarily deleted addictive apps or quit social media altogether.

What I am seeing is a shift to more traditional roles. Boys looking for “trad wives” and girls looking for Rip from Tombstone. So while I don’t doubt some selection is happening down the virtual & autist gene pool, I think another selection is happening as a counterpoint at least.

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I agree! My boys are so savvy. They are personable, sociable, unschooled so they’ve been around all ages always. They know how to shake hands. My older son knows how to behave in professional interactions and at high level organizational meetings, and he’s *17*.

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"They know how to shake hands."

I hate that this is some sort of Lost Art. I like how a person - am I permitted to say A Man? - sends a message, intentional or otherwise, when he shakes hands.

Firm or Wimpy? Did they try to squish your hand? Did they make eye contact? Did their eyes smile?

In Boy Scouts, one leader told us a story of how some African Tribe of old shook LEFT hands - because you had to put down your shield in order to engage the other. Success depended in part upon some the other also honoring this code. It took some fortitude, some confidence, involved risk. It took Trust, dare I say. It still does.

I'll be happy to see this make a comeback.

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I have long understood that the right-handed shake evolved from most people being right-handed, thus handling dagger with right hand, thus extending right hand = no weapon at the ready. And similarly, that Euro at-the-table habit of leaving wrists upon the table--whereas I from New England was taught to rest them under the table, in my lap--was indication of no weapon in hand. I've been reading Old Testament, and note that twice in Kings and Chronicles, a pointed point was made that a particular group of guys was equally skilled with left and right hands. The point was made.

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So you're saying there might be something to this "physiognomy" thing.

Duly noted.

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But, but, .....But I thought Fauci said we should never shake hands anymore!!!! LOL

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I bet Fauci's a limp-handed shaker.

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1000%. Fucking shit weasel

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I had forgotten that, I’m still so disgusted that rockhead Redfield admitted the six-foot thing was completely made up. Jackasses!

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Remember when he said a mask would save more lives than a vaccine?

Turns out he's right...masks saved zero lives....but the non-vaxx vaxx not so much.

What a weasel. Now he's acting like he never said that crap.

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I actually screenshot him saying that. I was livid.

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Who thought it wasn't made up?

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😂Mask-wearing skilled tv watchers who stood on those stickers in the lines were believers. Multitudes of them.

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Did you doubt?

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I just didn’t think they were stupid enough to actually admit it.

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I think Fauci would like us all in moon suits.

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That might have been his last straw with me.

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You can’t shake hands when you’re forced to stand 6 ft apart - antisocial distancing.

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I hadn't even thought of that.

It wasn't just little kids not seeing mouths speaking, faces smiling, not only l the missed First Kisses...

We need a Better Class of Elected Official.

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You can't shake hands when you follow orders to stand 6ft apart - lack of anti-authoritarianism.

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I feel ambivalent. I don't think someone becomes a man because he is able to squeeze someone else hand. I see many men overcompensating with ridiculous signals like this.

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And that was.part of point - no one should try to squeeze the crap out of your hand. Ever. That's not firm.

But you do learn something about the other man right away.

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The problem that I don't think we can really conclude anything meaningful from a handshake. Maybe many would consider me as a bad person because 1. generally I avoid handshakes as much as possible 2. maybe for many my handshake would be wimpy.

And here comes why: once I broke my small finger on my right hand and since then even after it is healed somehow the bone and joints are pretty sensitive. Who knows how many other people make wimpy handshakes because a tendinitis or whatever.

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As I read this of yours, I remembered having had (or having felt that I had), in 2006 or 2007, to teach my 10th, 11th, 12th grade Latin students how to shake hands--really!--the physical angle, the grip strength of the hand--not too much, not too little (no jellyfish), and how to introduce one person to another. All this so that they could appropriately behave at their upcoming prom, and be able to introduce their dates to the principal, as required. The kids got up and practiced these behaviors, in at least two different class periods. To my extreme surprise, it was clear that they actually enjoyed doing this.

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"I remembered having had (or having felt that I had), in 2006 or 2007, to teach my 10th, 11th, 12th grade Latin students"

My stepson is a junior at a private Jesuit school in the north Baltimore suburbs. They teach shaking hands.

And V3's a Latin teacher. Nice. Stepson is a super freaky math genius, AP Calc and Fizix this year but his favorite class all three years running: Latin.

I think that's awesome and, as you might have surmised, I have a special kinda liking for Nerds of the Numeric Persuasion.

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Kind words. Over the years, I used to say that as a Latin teacher, I got the nicest kids (Latin being, of course, an elective)--but my unspoken "truth" was that those nicest kids also frequently were the smartest. And my female students--unlike those in the other language classes--dressed modestly. Odd, that. As if they knew they would be 'marketing' something other than their physical attributes. It was a great gig, until the wokester admins poisoned it.

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"As if they knew they would be 'marketing' something other than their physical attributes."

Rise of the TikTok Influencer

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And so the potential meet-ups move closer to reality: you said 'north Baltimore suburbs'. I say 'NNW of Philadelphia' (I never say "Philly" because I am not a native). 3.5 hours apart, give or take.

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"potential meet-ups"

*ponders an EGM: Mid-Atlantic Region shindig*

Yes. There will be snacks.

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I usually say, "Baltimore: Jewel of the Patpsco."

I'm not a true Baltimoron but have never lived further than 30 miles from Downtown, and some say I bleed Orange and Black. https://www.mlb.com/orioles

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Orioles are beautiful birds. Ornithologist-wanna-be older brother showed me a nest in neighbor's tree when I was under 10. Never seen one since.

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Me too. Descended from two such, sister to another, and married yet another coming on 52 years ago. I do languages, not complex number things, but I love to play with numbers and charts. Grandfather and father showing up in my genes, I suspect. Personally I think the very structured quality of the Latin language explains its appeal to numeric nerds.

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"I do languages, not complex number things"

In another life, like, several lives ago, I taught High School Math. (and Science - I had a weird role even before I was certified; but, I digress...) In my second year we had a new principal. I liked him from the first faculty meeting in the summer before First Day.

Sometime in the fall he was assigned the task to observe my class and writing my in-class evaluation. In fact, now that I think about it, this was a physics class because I'm pretty sure we used the Force Table that day to find the sum of three vectors.

Anywho, after class, Mr. Principal, who'd been a Spanish Teacher (and I'll be a really good one) met with me briefly on the way out, said some good things about my lesson, and said, "When I went to college, I couldn't decide between being a Spanish major and a Math major." I replied with something like, "Not too overlapping fields *chuckle*" and he said, "But they are. They're both basically rules for coding and decoding. Often even assigning meaning." That was a fantastic answer. Thus the stepson occupying both of those spaces makes a lot of sense to me now. And his Mama and Abuela who lives with us are both Salvadoran, and Grandma mostly only speaks Spanish. So he can speak what I assume is pretty solid Spanish already, albeit with a bit of a Gringo accent, so I'm told.

Another overlapping Code-Decode field that a lot of _us_ tend to be good at: Music.

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I remember seeing the ridiculous "elbow bump" they did during the pandemic and thinking "I hope this never catches on."

I don't like the message not shaking hands sends. Yes, I hate a horrible handshake as much as anyone else. I also don't like it when they encase my hand in theirs But the elbow bump sends the message "your not safe."

In truth, we aren't safe, which is why we shake hands. It is a custom which is the first impression, it gives one indicator of measurement.

See also: The movie "My Life" where Michael Keaton is demonstrating to his unborn son in video how to properly shake hands.

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So a Vulcan Salute is no longer a viable form of greeting?

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Selection is also happening because of pheromones.

You'd have to believe that with decreasing testosterone the pheremone signals from males is diluted.

Because not only is the signal lost on a females "reception" pheromones, it affects their "broadcast" pheromones.

Since women both broadcast and select by virtue of their own signals, and those of males, it also affects the male because the male only selects by virtue of a women's reception.

Seems like a terrible feedback loop.

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This has been happening for years. Janet Smith, PhD speaks of studies that show how women on the pill give off different pheromones, making them less desireable mates. They also tend to select men who have less masculine traits.

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There are a lot of people electing to not have sexual partners of the opposite sex, to not have children, to not have families. On the other extreme, there are some electing to have multiple partners and multiple children, but no family environment and these children are raised in foster, adoption, or by the State. And there is a shrinking minority of two biological parents with intact family structure. I have to presume this leads to very polarizing social dynamics in the next 50-100 years.

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Damn. Geez. More good news, brought to our species courtesy Big Pharma and convenience!

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Despite being an archaic concept, pheromones play a fundamental role in mating. They could also play a role in the phenomenon of women's cycle synchronizing if they live together. It's impossible to reproduce this natural phenomenon with FaceTime or artificial intelligence

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I have read of this synchronization, but I did spend four years (academic years) of my life in all-female dorms at an all-female college--and never saw any evidence of this. Daughter, 28 years later, same college, same all-female dorms, never spoke of this.

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It all makes sense. We're all just packets of info and chemicals in biological form.

Maybe we lose our "souls" we those packets don't get to mingle?

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Good to hear that they’re rejecting this! At a fundamental human level, we don’t want the type of life these tech companies are trying to impose on us. We are wired to look each other in the eye and be in each other’s company. To know where we stand with people, by literally standing with people.

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we are, but i posed this before:

do we have a choice? perhaps in a combine of Ted Kaczynski cabins?

can you imagine if only X percent of people had access to the "Gutenberg" printing press for centuries.

one could make the argument at that point, given enough time, we would be, for all intents and purposes, different in how we manipulate our environment.

Hasn't our success, as a species, always been predicated on manipulation of our environment?

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Our success is absolutely predicated on manipulation of our environment, but in ways that are advantageous to our survival and wellbeing. Enough people rejecting something they perceive as abjectly harmful will invalidate that thing no matter how much money and power are pushing it. I think we’re seeing the beginnings of that in a lot of areas, not just on the tech front.

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I think the other variable is how do we keep up with the ethical implications of technology?

I mean we have no defined boundaries at this point.

I just think that process will outpace both our willingness to address those issues and our biological computation power.

We shall see right?

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You know I used to agree with you 100%. But I have seen too much over the last 5 years that we either use those tools or they will be used against us.

We will have to protect the "nexus" of information AND it's gateways. "They" ONLY have to defend the gateway.

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Well, in a manner of speaking, only X percent did have access to print--as it was manuscript and rare, thus only the rara avis could possess it. I never considered this until this moment--but when Gutenberg did invent his moveable type, how many actually were literate? Surely there must have been a considerable time-lag between access to text and ability to appreciate it?

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Indeed. The LATIN was the same thing as The SCIENCE before moveable type as well.

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"do we have a choice?"

*The Invisible Hand has entered the chat. Again.*

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yeah, our tiny little "god" hands. it will be like magic to someone who only lived 50 years ago.

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Clarke.

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Okay, so this is a better place to chime-in than offering a new comment. As such, I will do so...

While I do not doubt that on-line environments provide ample opportunity for pretending and bullshit, I would be careful to assume that IRL provides some type of failsafe. Sure, we have all had an experience such as that to which Bad Cat alludes. We meet a person in person and realize (or THINK we realize) they are a turd. I think--and Malcolm Gladwell would agree--that we also tend to place too much faith in our ability to ferret out a person's "trueness" from meeting them. Liars lie. They are good at it regardless of medium. Thinking they are less good at it if we can "shake their hands" is likely folly, particularly if only a few of the examples from "Talking To Strangers" are illustrative. Thankfully, most people are NOT scum or "squids" as was the dude in Bad Cat's story. Anyway, just offering what I hope is a reasonable counterpoint to a point-of-view with which I largely agree!

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Agreed. Scam artists, snake oil salesmen, etc. existed long before modern technology took hold. Perhaps the older ones were better at it because they couldn't hide behind pseudonyms and visual filters, but they existed nonetheless.

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"Perhaps the older ones were better at it because they couldn't hide behind pseudonyms and visual filters, but they existed nonetheless."

*a Nigerian Prince requesting your Routing Number has entered the chat*

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Dude. Well played!

As an aside, it STILL shocks the absolute horse feces out of me that people have actually gone to Africa in the grips of the Nigerian scam.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go do something stupid of my own. #NotImmune

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"And now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go do something stupid of my own."

*snicker*

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Indeed. Some of the nuance to which the Bad Cat refers in the piece puts this in a different mental space, but again, thinking "if we can meet them, we're safe" probably ain't as smart as we would hope.

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no medium is perfect and all have trade offs.

it's harder to lie in person or to mask the sort of person you are.

but it's easier to lie about data and to build rapid mass formation. virtual is great for ideas and for data because everyone can engage with it fully and take time to digest and respond or to fact check.

it's not about "better" so much as "trade offs."

but the two favor different sorts of people. king of the internet is rarely king of the office.

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No huge dispute about any of this, although I might be careful stating, definitively, which is "easier." As usual I agree with you, about which SEEMS easier, both philosophically and from my own experience. History seems to disagree with both of us, at least a little bit, based upon one author and one book!

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Rip - Yellowstone 😜

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Beth Dutton is the best character on TV for a long time.

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I am seeing the same dismissiveness of technology in my kids. My 11-year-old thinks it is ridiculous that some of her classmates want to be You-tubers when they grow up, and she can't stand kids who only talk about their online gaming. My 14 year-old commented on a superbowl ad, saying it might have been good except they ruined it by using too much AI-generated imagery. I hadn't even noticed, but upon reflection, it was true that it had that too-slick-3D-CGI look of AI photos. She also plans to get married early and have 5 kids. Definitely different goals from my high-school years as a Gen-Xer. They are growing wise to the fakeness of this brand new world.

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wow. all for of my kids have said they want to have at least four kids.

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Let’s hope there are more and more kids like yours. I’m not sure it’s the majority and definitely see the widening gap as I see my kids struggling to connect . Friendship appears to be becoming a lost art . . .

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I have no ides what "girls looking for Rip from Tombstone" means? Help.

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He meant Rip from Yellowstone 👆🏼, the show on Paramount

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What a marvelous exercise in flip thinking. Thank goodness for your unique brain and substack for facilitating access to it!

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This is a brilliant essay.

I did not see "People with Big Faces" leading to "Soft Crypto Kids" and ending up a survey on Evolution, Choice, and Trust.

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We are using the internet to create cohorts, consciously, that we will choose in-person. It’s no longer a byproduct of our location. We will choose.

Tom Woods figured this out during covid. He threw a huge party in Orlando for his podcast listeners in 2021, and I went. (I couldn’t make his 2020 Christmas party).

I could see *immediately* that this was the way. This is why I joke-not-joke about Gatoworld (shall we have a Cat Call? Badumdum). Because these forums are for finding the people we want to shake hands with.

I’m serious. I will meet up with people on the basis of these realms. I am picking my next location on the basis of where my people are.

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I love this! I used to have a rule no internet friends I don’t know IRL. When COVID hit that went out the window and I haven’t looked back. Best decision ever. Many of them are not geographically accessible to me, but I have met a few in person and it’s the exact opposite of awkward. 🤗

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I have some of those kinds of friends myself. I agree with you! They are a good bunch and I am glad to have met them IRL!

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Maybe you are a bit late with these things but I made a good bunch of friends through online gaming. Meeting IRL was the most natural thing after spending many hours playing together.

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You voice my own thoughts. I crave being able to meet in person those people to whom I respond and who respond to my comments.

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My company is, by doctrine, a Remote Work Shop (except for some who work in IT, Fulfillment, and a few must-touch roles). But it's really taken me some time to embrace it.

I used to love coming to the office, bumping into people at the Microwave, overhearing two guys chatting in the hall - "Idaho project has the same exact issue. What did you do?" - going to lunch and happy hours together. I think it made the team feel different.

As an Old White Guy Who Likes Geometry, I might be part of the reference group in this article. But my upbringing also stressed the value of what are often called Soft Skills and, while that had served me well in past employment, but it's not as valuable in this day under the WFH paradigm.

I've only finally adjusted to WFH more often by highlighting that I can play with Dante the Husky Dawg anytime he shows up with a ball in his mouth, or start the Tacos on Tuesday earlier - pulling chicken breasts, peeling shrimp takes some time.

It's getting better - and I'm actually in the office today - but I miss The Olden Days of Meatspace Relationships.

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Meatspace!

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Indeed, from you, here on Gato a year ago, I learned of the Owl's Head group (though still haven't been able to connect in person) and from that group, learned of the Mark37 ghost phone, which allowed me to ditch my Google phone.

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Would love it but being at the bottom of the planet in southern South Australia I might be a tad late. I'm still geeking to find myself one of only around 500 Gatopals (TM) loving his brilliant stacks. They are pure gold.

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We’ll have late drinks and you can have coffee! I have some clients down your way and I always see them during my evenings, their mornings.

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damn interesting thought.

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A great thought-provoking article! I've seen talk about how, as AI photos and video become undecipherable from real media, over time we may adjust to not trust any photos or video.

I could see the same thing happening with virtual life in general and a return to face-to-face business. That's a surprisingly hopeful way of looking at it.

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😏 I'm already there.

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Yes Gato we are in a period of punctuated equilibrium, ergo speciation.

Here's why:

Technology

Specifically because we are at a point where we can consciously put our hands on the very same process that emerged consciousness (albeit unthinkingly); biological and social evolution. We are at a place where we can self-speciate.

And we will because circumstances will dictate it. AI will only accelerate this. Primarily because the acceleration of the acceleration of this technology (and others) is beyond human comprehension. We are going to experience change like never before. Change like a zygote in the geometric process of dividing.

It will be explosive beyond imagination; and it will separate humanity into the haves and have nots.

I would suggest folks accept this and become familiar with these technologies, lest they be left behind.

We live in a brave new world; one in which AI can already detect sarcasm.

How long before AI can volitionally search for sarcasm?

How long before AI can deploy sarcasm?

Is sarcasm a sliver of consciousness. I would argue yes.

So how long before AI assimilate other slivers of consciousness and then consolidates these traits? I think people may be surprised.

I say get prepared.

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I don't agree Ryan. Speciation is overblown, as it takes isolated populations and I don't think the selectors are strong enough or persistent enough. Yesterday's loser-nerds are today's cryto-millionares are tomorrow's loser-nerds. I've witnessed an earl, the scion of a wealthy, Engish, noble family, lecturing American millionaires about how he was genetically predisposed to rule. "Breeding" he said, as he rented out rooms and entertained paying guests in his hereditary estate in order to earn the money keep it from collapsing into a shambling ruin. And what was this genetic predisposition based on? The ability of his Germanic barbarian ancestors to defeat other Germanic barbarians in physical combat. If some form of speciation were to occur, I think we would have seen signs of it by now, since aristocrats didn't marry peasants and vice versa. Yet all we've seen is hemophilia and other signs of inbreeding. The results of several centuries of crypto-nerd inbreeding would be truly frightening.

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Well from up-close and personal: I observe my husband being the about the fifth or sixth generation to pursue scientific investigation. And collaterals on the side (pun intended) in addition to the direct line.

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That's well thought out. I respect it, but at the same time respectfully disagree.

It was bound to happen; I think this is the first time I disagree with you.

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Yes, along with dogs and cats living together, it's a sign that the apocalypse is upon us.

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Good subthread, Kertch and Ryan.

You've both been on it the last few times out.

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Thank you Pi Guy.

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LOLOLOL!

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Well said, Ryan! I can't argue with anything you said. I do think there is a spiritual component to AI that will not be readily apparent to even astute observers. I agree with Gato that this environment could be ripe for deception. Could a Pied Piper come along and offer people the promise of immortality or some kind of superhuman powers based off of some type of Transhuman technology? I do not know. I do think people should be on guard and not quick to follow the leader.

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A Pied Piper like Yuval Harari (obviously I've not paid much attention to the spelling of it's name) or Klaus Schwab?

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Yes, both of them are deceivers. However, I think they are more like front-men for those behind the scenes that truly pull the levers of power. There will be someone come along who promises the world to the people only to deceive the masses. I have a healthy degree of skepticism toward any supposed leader who says they are going to "save" us.

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"However, I think they are more like front-men for those behind the scenes that truly pull the levers of power."

Wow. I'd never considered that Klaus Schwab could actually be the puppet.

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"Could a Pied Piper come along and offer people the promise of immortality or some kind of superhuman powers"

A sort of Digital Jonestown.

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Yeah, that is a good way to put it.

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Agree on all points

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interesting... I'm at least semi conscious then. I'm pretty sarcastic

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I can tell!..lolol...:)

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😏

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I thought we were already separated into haves and have nots. Do you need to go outside and look around more?

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The point is the degree of separation.

We will no longer be tethered to our sloppy gooey grey matter.

We will have tools that expand our consciousness.

That is a different world. And fertile ground for speciation.

It will be the equivalent of separating old world monkeys by sea or mountains.

But only faster beyond belief; we will accelerate this process by our own tools.

It will become infinitely more recursive with no break condition.

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Oook. 😖

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please tell me that's a reference to "the librarian" from the pratchett novels...

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Sorry. 😔 Only saw part of one movie, if those are the stories of which you're speaking. I mostly read Sherlock Holmes, horror/ghost stories, and books about horses/dogs when I was young.

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Oook is now my favorite exclamation.

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(Bowing deeply.) Thank-you, Pi Guy!

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Well, here's the thing. Once the apes figured out the fire wasn't real, the humans were f^cked.

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Aren't we apes?

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"Specifically because we are at a point where we can consciously put our hands on the very same process that emerged consciousness (albeit unthinkingly); biological and social evolution. We are at a place where we can self-speciate."

*The Singularity has entered the chat*

"How long before AI can volitionally search for sarcasm?"

Do not Fear of the Robot that Can Pass the Voight-Kampff Test. Fear the Robot that Fails it On Purpose.

https://youtu.be/OWK6oSbSKKc?si=WsbRls836LrTWSZZ

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Exactly. And worse still; not know it failed deliberately

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"not know it failed deliberately"

Agency might be a hard emotion to encode.

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Indeed

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The rush and crush of technological advancement can be likened to the building of the Tower of Babel.

Man, in his attempt to replace God, the true Creator, attempting to build a structure (infrastructure) they deem superior, able to create superior beings.

It is a fools errand with potentially devastating consequences. We can see some of those early stages already in zombie-like kids it’s created, who roam about, disconnected from the people and reality present around them, with their heads buried inside their phones - and they walk right into a pole.

Eventually reality smacks everyone in the face.

“There is a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God, the Creator, made known through Jesus.”

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Have had same thought of Babel many times recently. Also keep thinking of the movie Wall-E every time I see kids riding electric scooters with AirPods in and cell phone in hand.

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Outstanding outstanding outstanding! It’s this Fcking fear that’s being peddled that’s moving so many onto unnatural, harmful paths.

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Do we have a choice?

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Don’t we? They’re preying on our unconscious- 90% of the brain. Maybe it’s as simple as choosing “fight” over “flight?” Maybe we SHOULD “shoot the messenger”

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Sorry, but you can't choose fight or flight. It's a instinctive reaction. You can train your to subconscious to move in one direction or the other, but such training is not always successful.

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This will turn off some types, but here goes: one can accomplish surprising things through Meditation.

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Perhaps, but try meditating then entering armed combat. You'll find out quickly just how strong your fight or flight instincts are. It's not a substitute for intense repetitive training.

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No argument from me. Kinda like what Krishna told Arjuna in the Mahabharata (sp?)

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Perhaps...but that might leave us in a Canticle for Leibowitz "world".

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You know Ryan, if more people would read Vonnegut, maybe we wouldn’t be in this mess!!!!!

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People are so dumbed down these days they can't even tell they're ignorant

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Dunning Kruger rules the world!

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Fact

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Whaddya mean?

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Yeah and a pinch of his skepticism, self-deprecation and his understanding of human nature could go a long way in waking people up?

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I will say Vonnegut just lays it out there… Miller? Heck, he was hopeful!

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I read most of them in college, but wondered if they would still work. Which would you recommend?

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Cats Cradle? I love his short story “Harrison Bergeron”. Its a quick read on the internet. Google it. It’ll bring back memories!!!

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Agree with Steve.

Quick Intro into the Vonnegut: Harrison Bergeron. The whole thing's right here, maybe a 15-minute read. https://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

And Cat's Cradle is my favorite novel. Fave quote, surely posted here by me several times:

--

Former Nazi "Physician" Julian Castle: "Self-taught, are you?"

Little Newt: "Isn't everybody?"

Castle: "Very good answer. "

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Outstanding scene! Thanks for that, Pi.

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Well, funny thing. There's a commercial that plays all the time on cable for a package of deodorant products whose inventor promises "you'll be as stink-free as humanly possible" and every time I see it I think they are destroying important scent signals for finding a suitable mate (or even a congenial friend).

And meanwhile the latest face fashion trend for women is to look grim and starved with buccal plastic surgery removing all signs of nubile cheeks.

It's true, but these poor kids don't know it these days, that you gotta work up a sweat to be properly fuckable, boys and girls alike. No wonder dating apps are working out so poorly. They need Smell-O-Vision.

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It's true. The wife likes it best around 7pm, after a light workout, when Old Spice is just starting to lose its daily skirmish against the foul pit demons.

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It is a matter of degree, No?

Once your at the "Just Finished Splitting and Stacking a Cord of Firewood" stage, eu natural loses a bit of its charm.

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Fascinating. Made me think that maybe the cause of the lowering testosterone levels might be a counterintuitive selection advantage. Maybe women are seeking mates with low T, with knock on effects with each generation. With relatively stable societies and widely available insemination tech, low T levels may not be the reproduction disadvantage that you would think it would be at first glance. And maybe that explains the exaggerated sexuality in current society. Maybe low T men need high heels, form fitting yoga pants, and raunchy talk to be aroused, whereas old style high T men needed but a breath of wind and a thought.

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The boys are being pummeled by society into being low T. College seminars on "toxic" masculinity, constant promotion of girls-this and women-that and preferential treatment of females on every level. I have a teenage daughter and preteen son and I see it every day. My daughter will be fine. My son, a white male who loves sports, is the one I worry about.

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Bingo.

But your boy will be fine because of you.

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And his dad :)

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amen, you are lucky!...:)

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I've got your Toxic Masculinity right here:

http://tinyurl.com/ycwrhwpy

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Maybe low-t guys need to be bitch slapped by reality?

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*dons 'Reality' t-shirt*

Where do I sign up?

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I love what Gato drew up here but I don't think society was ever so homogenous that selection was strictly for the T high guys. In a village where everyone had to be married by a certain age automatically carrie forward even the worst genes.

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Have you checked out the Amish lately?

A few centuries of very specific social-evolutionary pressure can create some striking results.

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I am actually about to grab Pretzel Dogs at the Amish Market across York Rd from my office in Greater Downtown Hunt Valley, MD (they're only open Thu-Sat and Friday's way too crowded)

and note that Amish can no longer grow mustaches, only beards.

They're bred that trait clean out of the gene pool!

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There is no substitute for genuine face-to-face authentic interaction. I could be "present" on 100 zoom calls and it would not make up for the lack of being present with someone face-to-face. On a side note, what kind of artificial world is being created? I have visions of people sitting alone in their tiny apartment with their VR goggles strapped around their head actually thinking they are living. They will require their "soma" each and every day (term from Aldous Huxley's book, "A Brave New World.") This sounds like a hellacious nightmare, but it's soon to become a dystopia reality. I hope you're right, Gato! I hope this quickly leads to more face-to-face interaction and authentic relationship. Otherwise, loneliness will overtake every aspect of our culture/society.

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"dystopian reality"

I hate the fact we can no longer edit our comments.

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Copy the comment, delete it, re-comment and paste, edit the re-pasted comment as needed and re-post. Et voilà

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i switched back to the pc version. the app sucks.

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Good pro tip! Thanks, Ryan!

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It's always been like this, yes, so -- boys and girls-- proceed on down that eloi rabbit hole and make your very own evolutionary bottleneck. All the king's men and all the king's horses won't be able to put your gametes together again.

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and then a bunch of high T barbarians sack rome and we start again.

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With ULTRA-MAGA military gear!

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We're do I buy me some of that?

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Buy it?! I say we start a business selling it!...;)

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Actually, you're late to the game. I can buy a MAGA AR-15 and a custom Trump Glock on the internet. I'm also confident such a purchase would not arouse ANY suspicion or tracking by the ATF, Homeland Security, or any other goverment agency. It's all good!

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You're on so many lists, you're just opportunity cost in their search for more domestic terrorists!...;)

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How's this for the name of our biz (yeah, I'm weasling in):

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms

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And fireworks!

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Except these look like illegals from South America

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With peculiarly Asian facial form.

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Hail to the "High T Barbarians"! We need a t-shirt!

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Bronze Age Pervert.

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Modern Rome is already self-sacked (or de-sacked, given the T context), so the "we" is diminished and the remnants are already going about the business of starting again.

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Sounds good to me.

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I fear this is quite true.

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If anyone denies that genetics plays a role in human achievement, ask them to explain the makeup of players on an NBA court. And then why if someone can be fast, quick, tall and possess remarkable physical coordination, why is it hard to conceive the idea that some will be more suited to math, or physics, or scientific reasoning.

As someone who started a business before emails and computers and cell phones, everything was in person. Email enabled people to be much nastier than they would dare be in person and from my experience was detrimental to success and problem resolution.

Twitter, and all the other means of social media allows devious, ignorant and untrustworthy people to reach millions with their aberrant ideas and thoughts.

Always communicate like it’s face to face is a good rule.

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"If anyone denies that genetics plays a role in human achievement, ask them to explain the makeup of players on an NBA court."

*sigh* Nobody wants to see a Short White Dad-bod Guy who Likes Geometry ball on TV.

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Same for general intelligence

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Well, crypto bros don’t run the world, yet. Maybe the West has become effeminate and soft, but that not the case in the rest of the world. I think it’s temporary and cyclical. I think it’s a bit of a reach to assume we’re doomed to being ruled by Asperger’s sufferers. Most women don’t want a milquetoast, incommunicative flabby mate.

Beyond that, it’s a numbers game. 2000 crypto bros, a few thousand masters of the Wall Street universe are not most of humanity.

Don’t judge a book by its cover. It’s a good way to underestimate people.

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I never spend more than 50 bucks on a pair of genes. I wonder what one gene would cost?

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"I wonder what one gene would cost?"

What is the sound of One Hand Clapping?

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But those genes reproduce themselves. There's real value there. Levis and Wranglers, not so much. (not a good business model)--

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You just have to get in her genes!

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I'm still sorting out whether this gave me hope, or if it made me even happier that I'm old and don't have that much time left to see the outcomes.

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