we’re seeing more and more data like this where vaccinated staff at hospitals or individuals are carrying massive viral loads of covid before showing any symptoms and infecting one another (and likely patients as well)
studies are all well and good, but everyone has been so inundated with them and there is so much data, obfuscation, and manipulation that most people just do not care. people cling to their priors and don’t really change their minds. they find data to suit.
those who could be convinced by data long since picked a side. but what about the rest of humanity?
what’s going to shape their views?
it’s going to be what they see and what they live. and i think it’s going to increasingly look like this:
(this happened just this morning and yes, the i here is really me)
i was just having a conversation with a friend in san juan.
he lives with his GF who is an MD and who has treated covid patients in a hospital right back to PR’s “patient zero” off the cruise ship.
they are both vaccinated.
they both caught covid last week.
6 out of 10 of the people they had dinner with caught it.
all were vaccinated and dinner was at a restaurant that required proof of vaccination to enter.
(PR has mandated vaccine passports/proof for restaurants that want to run at anything over 50% capacity. it also mandates indoor masks.)
this was not a PCR+ trace infection. his direct description was:
“Yea we’re vaxed, we’re better today, last week sucked. Couldn’t stop coughing and just no energy.”
so, not a super severe case, but not a mild one either. sounds like a crappy flu.
the response to this is going to be simple:
these stories seem to be everywhere. my biz partner and his wife got vaccinated to travel to europe this summer (april vaxx date). they got covid in august. so did her mom who was also vaccinated. so did their kids.
everyone knows stories like this now of the vaccinated getting sick and spreading covid. and this is going to affect outlooks and change minds.
how do you sustain belief in vaccines to stop spread when you see them not stopping spread? people are getting real cases of covid post vaccination and are spreading it as well.
suddenly, you see data like this in a new light because it gels with your direct, personal experience.
it’s not what we were sold. we were sold “get your life back” and “100% efficacy.” we were told this would keep us from getting sick and spreading disease.
now, at best, it’s a mitigation of severity and those claims too are increasingly under challenge because it looks like the vaccines fade in efficacy rapidly.
suddenly, it’s “boosters” and watching your friends get sick despite having complied.
this will gut the credibility of health authorities because it’s clear they were wrong.
you can control the media and the politicians, but you cannot stop what people see or what they experience and when those experiences contradict what you are telling them, they’ll realize you’ve been telling porky pies.
so just what is the argument for vaccine passports when 6 in 10 vaccinated people in a vaxxed only restaurant all get covid? “it could have been worse?” this is not a compelling narrative.
where is the protection? where is the basic logic?
this story is about to unravel like an old sweater because the lived experience cannot be suppressed.
some will fight it and demand more shots and more faith, but their numbers will dwindle and they will now be fighting the already vaxxed who complied to get by and now feel hard done by and lied to.
Unrelated note, but have you heard about the *trillions* of Perfectly Healthy children who have been put at risk by lax COVID-19? It has to be trillions because I've seen it at least twice on the news!
How long will it take for the "blame the unvaxxed" people to realize that sooner or later, some of us will start "blaming the vaxxed" for the surge? My guess, unlike yours Sir Bad Cat, is never. Despite the obvious data from Israel and elsewhere, I *STILL* have friends, and some of them who are MDs, who still cry out, "Get your vax!" Religion is hard to shake. The COVID dumpster fire became religious a while back. #GetsBumpyFromHere
There will be people who cling to the sinking ship till the very end, I am afraid. What I desperately hope is that enough people join us over here in reality so that the crazy voices don't hold so much sway. Someone I know who was very pro-lockdown, pro-mask, pro-vaccination (and you're bad if you don't get vaccinated) has started to show the ability to at least question the narrative. It's going to be an uphill battle for sure though.
Julius Ruechel's recent article helped me turn a corner. "All" we have to do; perhaps what we can only do; is to sow a seed of doubt; and leave it at that. So I have my stock of replies (and a growing list of credible references) at hand, for use from time-to-time.
Show them this clip of the CDC director admitting on CNN in early August that the jabs do not stop infection or transmission of the delta variant and that the unvaxxed and fully vaxxed have similar viral loads.
Maybe is right. You and I both know this ain't about science, facts, or data! The problem I see, and that is not being mentioned, is that the vaccine is NOT aimed at Delta anyway. The boosters *might* be aimed at Delta, but the current vaccine is not, despite approval for the licensed version from Pfizer.
I believe the booster being used in Israel is just another injection of the same Pfizer vaxxine potion.
I've seen no evidence that the boosters Biden and Fauci are discussing are different that the original injections.
And, if they are, what evidence do we have that they are "safe"...especially since we know the first potions weren't safe for many people?
Hundreds of millions of people were injected before the Salk study came out on April 30. Golly, folks, turns out the spike protein damages the endothelial cells that line all your lymph and blood vessels...but not to worry, though, 'cause the virus spikes "behave very differently than those safely encoded by vaccines". I mean they said so...it must be true.
I think this winter will be shitshow (technical term here lol). The timing to the fading efficacy and the northern flu season is going to be a perfect storm. The question is, does the vaccine make things worse? Well, the real question is, does the US collect the right data en masse to ensure that analysis can happen? And is it available?
I’m not sure about things like ADE, vaccine derived mutations, etc. but people will change their perceptions if the storm hits the way I think it does. In the end, we are shaped by our experiences around us, regardless of facts presented at times. If this happens, the covid vaccine will become a punch line of a bad joke.
Yes, we will have a big winter surge in most parts of the US. The SE had a worse summer surge than winter last year, and I would expect the same thing this year. But the NE, CA, etc with small summer surges will have a bad winter per seasonality from last year.
What about sunk costs? I worry people will hold tight. But I love the optimism of this post! I needed it today when the mask mandate when back into effect in IL..
"there is no more vocal nor radicalized convert than one who just realized they have been duped" - Agreed, and they will get very angry.
And only 10% have to start getting mad to start pulling the rest along.....
But, again, surely this would have featured in their massively-resourced scenario-planning (they HAVE to have known what the outcomes of the vax would be).....?
So I do really worry - maybe they WANT people to get mad and protest in the streets....?
Cos then of course it's back to managing a known scenario.......
(And just as well the troops are back to help with all this nonsense).......
Then it's a state of emergency against a very-well identified enemy.......
And that might be game-over for the resistance (for the time being anyway).
A lot of this goes back to two atavistic American traits now nearing the entrail stage--education and faith. If people's minds are developed into anything close to their potential, critical thinking skills should ultimately guide them into seeing far beyond a sunk cost fallacy. But what about faith? What about an innate sense that a higher being or the hand of fate will protect them from a disease that kills about 3 out of every 1,000 people ESPECIALLY if they believe they are noble individuals worth protecting and that have an inherent worth apart from what the State can demand in the way of sacrifice?
On the other hand, doomsday cults always have an explanation when the rapture doesn't arrive on schedule.
The one I'm seeing here in Faucistan is an explicit Dolchstoßlegende:
"We would have won, but the Bad Minority stabbed us in the back" -- i.e. people who didn't get vaccinated allowed it to spread and mutate and evolve fangs and claws and have its way with our women, etc.
Still, I try to be optimistic: each time Doomsday doesn't come, adherents at the margin will get disillusioned, and gradually it will be whittled down.
I take Gato’s point about studies, but there is an established biological mechanism whereby viruses mutate in the bodies of the vaccinated; it’s analogous to antibiotic resistance, which is fairly well known. We’ll see
I agree to a point, el Gato. My concern is how the grifters will spin the message. Will they be honest with us and tell us that the therapeutics don’t work, which won’t surprise many in this thread as the trials were games by only including under 70 and healthy folks, or will they blame the unvaxxed, Trump, white supremacists, climate change and irreverent pricks like me? I will lay 2-1 odds that they reach for one or two of these out of the gate. Any takers? BTW, get ready for the “Trump rushed the vaccines” narrative once we head into flu season. Based on what I have seen, unelected health administrators, Trump haters and COVID hall monitors will cling to their narratives until the bitter end.
So if the only protection is to have the "vaccine" stimulate antibody production, and this requires constant "top-ups", then by implication they want your body to be producing antibodies 24/7 over weeks, or I guess, months? Is this not an unhealthy condition long term?
The key will then be to what extent the double-vax reduces hospitalization and death. No one beyond the very frail should take a booster when there is NO data to back up the value of taking one, and plenty of side effects.
I predict a hard backfiring in some places where they are requiring vax and still testing (looking at you Standford and MIT). The cognitive dissonance has been strong, but reality has a funny way of persisting.
My kid is at Penn State and I reached out to them today to challenge their policy of weekly testing for the unvaccinated and no testing for the vaccinated. Kid had covid already. Pointed out that they are testing the wrong kids and wasting a lot of time and money.
They are going to get back to me.
This house of cards will certainly collapse. It is just a matter of when. I heard that Franciscan University (conservative Catholic institution) is allowing proof of natural immunity as equivalent to vaccine. That is the only institution (if correct) that I am aware of to take this step - so far. To follow should be the acknowledgement that the former is, in fact, superior to the latter. But equivalency is a good starting point.
Step-kid is at Northeastern in Boston. Last he shared, they needed vaccination, weekly testing and masks to step into a non-virtual live class. The university itself is doing the testing at sites in campus and has gotten the process to be quite efficient. I’m assuming these universities are collecting the data and if so, should provide enlightening at least for numbers of breakthroughs in a fully-vaxxed, fairly homogenized, lower-risk population. That is, if someone is allowed to crunch the numbers in a meaningful, straightforward way.
One of my fathers closest friends has was double vaccinated in March along with his wife. A few weeks ago they both caught covid, my fathers friend is now coughing up blood and his wife has been hospitalised. #vaccines have failed.
oh yeah, I am already seeing it with FB "friends"- plus they add "if only everyone would wear their masks" kind of thing. Entertaining. QUESTION: How accurate is VAERs? I would like to use them as a source, but Reuters shot them down, saying "anyone" could post a side effect/reaction/death etc. which I know isn't true, but still. Thanks!
I saw a reputable doctor do an eye-opening presentation on VAERS. He is not a conspiracy theorist, nor a chicken-little. Bottom Line: While VAERS is not capable of generating data that would allow a precise statistical analysis, it is quite capable of generating a "signal" that *should* raise red flags. The normalized number of deaths and adverse reactions from the COVID vaccines is already at something like 40X the normalized levels for any previous vaccine. Call VAERS suspect if you like, but that much difference is not due to drunk college students trying to make Pfizer look bad.
I challenge anyone who claims VAERS is full of false reports to attempt to submit a false report and see how far they get before either giving up or being unable/unwilling to continue. Everyone submitting a report does so under threat of penalties for filing a false report, and the submission requires enough information that you’re going to be pretty easy to track down and penalize if you do submit one.
I would say the “pre-politicization of the database” studies are likely very accurate - the vast majority of the reports are factual (though there’s no way to 100% guarantee each event is “vax-caused”) and what is in there is almost certainly only a fraction of the actual number of occurrences.
True. I submitted mine. I was bullied into this from work (and I quit because I can) and had immediate effects and a lasting numbness issue after three weeks still. It takes a lot of data and email address. You would have to go through a lot of trouble and create unique fake email addresses to submit a bunch of fake claims.
So sorry you are going through this. I am afraid the other way...that they are NOT being reported (deaths and illness/reactions) just because it seems to be so difficult to do. Thank you for comment.
I had a real claim and gave up. It’s asks for a lot of information you won’t have if you are not the health care provider. I guess I could have left all the lot and dose stuff blank but it was difficult and a huge pain.
Thank you. I am thinking along those lines also. So hard to navigate. So much information to enter. So people are not. (Are health professionals doing this I wonder?)
Thank you. I was trying to "look around" and do a data dig and I got as far as having to submit some ID # of some kind. So I trust what is on there mostly. Thanks again.
I have not needed to travel internationally from the UK since the start of this shit show, but I now need to go to the Netherlands from the UK. They are hysterically demanding nor only both shots but still 10 days quarantine as well. Probably brexit influenced perversity - as they do not require either from a lot of other EU schengen countries.
Trying to work out a possible way around it (I was coerced into the first AZ shot but desperately do not want the second one) is making my head hurt & looking incredibly difficult 🤬. At least in the US people (I don't think) have these insane inter state travel restrictions.
I think there is a material difference also, between "my lived experience is [x] and therefore we must enact policy [y] as a perfect solution for all" and "my lived experience is [x] and therefore your vision of policy [y] as a perfect solution for all is incomplete."
The former fosters univariate analysis and is usually meant to preempt thought. The latter fosters multivariate analysis and PROVOKES thought.
Speaking of turning the vernacular of the woke against them, for those who haven't heard James Lindsay's recent diatribe on vaccine-passports-as-systemic-racism, I recommend it. https://youtu.be/dYLr7C-asN4
Have we reached the point in our relationship where, when I mention that not only do I plan to steal, but also that I will do so likely without attribution, it was already a foregone conclusion?
Hopefully what's going on at Israel awakes more people. Many have taken the jab seeing it as the ticket back to normal. We should know already we cannot do that with politicians as they have been emulating Darth Vader to the letter ("I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further").
And alas, the issue I see with some of those who got sick despite the jab is the statement "It could have been worse without the jab". How do they know that? Sadly, many won't easily accept they have been duped because that would imply admitting they were fooled by government and public health officials.
As my covidan mom says, 'how can you know if you don't watch the news?' And so they will go down with the ship as well everyone who relies upon the media for their schtick.
Go and look at Nate Silver's thread on Twitter yesterday. He posted a couple of questioning the narrative posts, really riled the left up, then this:
But he's back at it again this AM, nagging him, this 'having lost the plot." It's sorta like a self-parody.
"you cannot stop what people see or what they experience"
I believe this, as long as their mind is not stuck inside the identity of their phone world. When I was in Tanzania for nine months (and it is still very much 2019 inside the country) I would ask why they didn't fall for it (very few have smartphones) and they would reply along these lines: 'we can see if our neighbors have it, the word of mouth, on the street, we know what is real.'
But I question whether the ultra smartphone tethered Covidians know what is real any longer in order to have that experience. All that said, the injection is not like a mask. It is poison to many with side effects. We will have to see what the fall-off rate is for the 3rd shot. If it's only like 10-15% or if it's like 30-40% that say no. If it's the latter then we can expect this to end.
I thought "covidian" meant someone who favors ending restrictions.
I looked at Silver's tweets and could not see anything "controversial" in them; highly supportive of the ludicrous "getting infected means the vaccines are working" narrative.
A covidian/covidien, get it. I think is a term I first read with CJ Hopkins. He has some stack on it.
OK, you have to measure it by a normie standard. I am sure you can see his tweets on Amherst yesterday and today Duke, ie 'lost the plot'? But he keeps on defaulting back to normie. Baby steps.
And I'm just going to continue not using "covidian" and discontinue posting drunk comments mocking people who use it because I thought they were referring to me.
Right, but he means that in signaling a lack of faith in the vaccines, various institutions are "misinterpreting" the obvious fact that the vaccines do not work (as "vaccines") - he is not saying that he thinks the vaccines do not work.
"Who are you going to believe, the New York Times or your own lying eyes?" essentially sums up a conversation I had with my rarely heard from First Estate uncle who has been sheltering in his summer home waiting for NYC to "come back", as he puts it. He's looking forward to his booster shot and pooh-poohs these anecdotes even when I mentioned that the fully vaccinated Rev. Jesse Jackson and his wife both caught COVID and landed in ICU (Mrs. Jackson, though hear the Rev. is doing better).
Unfortunately, this will go down in history as a great failure of the FDA: I've worked on CRO's doing clinical trials, and it looked to me that Pfizer designed their studies the same way we did: oversample subjects under 50, white, male, no comorbidities. Sure, they had to pick from all groups but you can tip the scales by oversampling this way. Now reality from Israel and increasingly domestic evidence point to something suspected but buried: over 60 and/or over 6 months from "fully vaccinated" and protection wanes quickly.
The only good thing I can see is that immunity is highest here in late summer so maybe a good number can get it out of the way now, we do appear to be at or near the top of the curve now.
California Democrats Drop Bill to "Mandate" Vaccinations. Good foot soldier that it is, the LA Times tries to cast this as anything but a defeat (extra time is simply needed to "craft the strongest bill possible", etc., more junk, etc., more Libby cracker bullshit, etc.) but it seems like this may be watershed moment. Article does mention that an onslaught of phone calls and protests to legislators may have been a contributing reason for the retreat. Really:)?
Told u this shit is gonna fall apart, I just got it last week, totally die to the mandate, both my wife & I stayed coof free for the whole time, however we got it last week, my wife had tremendous side effects, all day the day after, absolutely horrible
Hope springs eternal. I would say everyone I know who knows this is happening just glazes over if you talk about it. Total cognitive dissonance. You don't seem to realize how powerful that is.
Folks ARE saying: THe passports will dramatically reduce infections ANd the push people to get the shots
Yep; spaces all shut down. And our friends and family are all primed against us saying anything. LOL its a bit like ADE - they got the "anti-vaxxer vax" and are now super-primed for anything that comes out of our mouths....... So we need to come up with our own "argument variants" to see if it can get past their defenses........ And if it's sneaky enough it might "break through" and they will unwittingly pass on our argument to others. OMG
That's a lot of panic mongering. The actual data says is about 13% have SOME after effects beyond 2 weeks, which is about the same as many other viruses. And clearance after that is similar to others as well.
If you are correct about the vaccines, we should see a major spike in Europe over the winter. They had a much slower initial rollout, so most are still within 3-5 months of vaccination. The UK and Canada should provide some interesting data. They rolled out the vaccines around the same time as us, but spaced the second doses longer apart (more out of necessity). One possible explanation for the waning efficacy is that the second doses were dispensed too soon after the first.
Well I have first hand knowledge of Canada. Just warning you our data will be all over the place. First off, The most vulnerable started to be vaxxed in March and the interval between 1st and 2nd dose was set at 4 months. Canada was at the back of the line in the G7 initially because our incompetent man-child PM and his merry band of incompetents, put us way behind our G7 partners because we danced with CanSino (yup hard to believe but true) until the Chinese government told us to crap in our hats, so as our brilliant leaders have repeated at least 100,000 times, “we have secured the most robust supply of vaccinations in the G7 at 400 million does. For those of you who don’t know much about Canada besides stronger Canadian beer and poutine, there are approximately 36 million people in Canada (size of the woke republic of California) so we have plenty of the therapeutics but for some reason, we also just ordered 50 million boosters. It really is Three Stooges type execution here but with a captured and bribed MSM and over 50% of the population full on COVID disciples, it is like pushing a ball of yarn uphill, Gato! Sooo, for the last 2+ months we have enough of these therapeutics for everyone to now get their two shots in a month. Lastly, there are many people who have mixed and matched because they got an AZ first after PH swore up and down that they were safe only to cancel them a couple weeks later and a Pfizer first only to be to be told 4 months later that they will need to take Moderna or wait until Pfizer arrives. Will be next to impossible to compare apples to apples but that won’t matter because the man behind the curtain will just massage the number to suit their narrative and the stenographers will just take copious notes.
I wish I could be as optimistic. What's needed is for a new media storm to take over and people will stop thinking about covid and the passports will just fade away. Unless it's truly something more devious, then we're screwed
Agreed, but I do think el Senor Gato has a point. You can bullshit people pretty much forever and they will keep eating it up, but only if they get some reward for eating bullshit, such as dopamine hits from Red Guarding the proles. But you can't bullshit reality. Here I would defer to Orlov: "A foundation of lies can only be kept from crumbling under carefully controlled circumstances. For instance, a certain shady oligarch may promote a certain vaccine as effective against a certain virus whereas his real intention is to stop population growth by making women sterile. This works because corporate structures can be organized around a management strategy known as mushroom theory (keep them in the dark and feed them shit). But it doesn’t work for an entire sprawling [Empire of Lies and Chaos], where the truth inevitably leaks out, contradictions mount, morale plummets. One lie always deserves another, and then the making of mistakes, the efforts to fix mistakes and the efforts to hide mistakes all become largely interchangeable."
But that doesn;t keep them pushing: "The World Health Organization has just released a guiding document for a digital vaccine certificate that will be blockchain based. This will be used to implement a vaccine passport in every country. It’s funded by the Bill & Melinda Gate’s Foundation & Rockefeller Foundation."
This one has me quite deeply worried. Maybe we are very foolish to believe that things will crumble as vaccine trouble mounts. They must have figured this in their scenario-planning, if the origins go back as far as we think. And they must be super-resourced, confident and determined - e.g. 4M lives as collateral damage - no problem!
So where are they weakest? Maybe we have to start letter-writing campaigns to our still democratically-elected representatives, and tell them in no uncertain terms that their jobs are on the line?
ahh, but what has been so wonderfully potent, at least among my group of acquaintances, are precisely those who were so high and mighty and got vaxxed and played the performative virtue signaling to the hilt.
then they get sick, get shunned, and bear the full brunt of what they have been dishing out as everyone turns on them for having "the scarlet C" and being "fallen."
form what i have seen, that's one doozie of a red pill.
and it spreads.
watch.
water torture by anecdote got us into this mess. it may be just the thing to get us out.
i've kind of landed on the "those who start food fights better be ready for some spaghetti in their hair" outlook. i am happy to see some of those so eager to dish it out have to take some in return. that's how they learn not be be such a sanctimonious jerk going forward.
Why dance around calling infection with SARS-CoV-2 “the scarlet C”. It’s a slightly more than minor respiratory virus that has not significantly increased all-cause mortality. Pretending this virus is something more only feeds into the false narrative that we must take unprecedented measures against it.
Fair enough. My frustration is not directed at you, personally. Without ulterior motives of completely reshaping society, this lab-leak would’ve been a blip on the public health radar.
I realize what I'm going to say may be a bitter pill for some to swallow, but if your family (or friends) can turn on you because teevee told them to, you are better off without them in your life. You may love them but the feeling isn't mutual and it was highly conditional.
I had a friend who called me "horrible" and "uncaring" because I refused to get hysterical about this even at the start. As I told her (and she should know with her mother being a doctor in PR, btw) that the last thing you do in am emergency is get hysterical because that's how mistakes are made and people get hurt or die. I speak from experience and she KNOWS that I do. Nah, teevee said anyone not reacting hysterically and literally thinking the world is ending with The Black Death 2.0 is bad and wrong so, I'm bad and wrong. She thought the world was ending and I know it's not. Then she contacts me excitedly 5 months later to announce a pregnancy. I said, "interesting decision for someone who thinks the world is ending." That was the last I heard from her. Good riddance and hopefully that poor child ends up smarter despite their parentage.
Indeed. I find myself *still* unsure what the wreckage will be with the results of "the sorting hat" as a backdrop. Do I just let it go, since propaganda is a mighty powerful tool? Is the fact that I just happened to take the Red Pill this time sufficient reason for me to kick people who believed the propaganda to the curb permanently? Damned if I know!
Yeah I wrestled with that as well. My neighbors, I'll forgive because I'm not THAT close to them and I have no expectations of then beyond basic courtesy. People who are family, close/best friends who should know the kind of person you are and turns on you anyway because an anonymous 3rd party said to do so? Nah, they're treacherous. These disagreements went so far beyond simple difference of opinion to moralizing and witch hunting.
I knew people who voted Trump in 2016. I didn't demand they be burned at the stake as many did (and still are). I asked, "but, why?!" And I listened sincerely. Glad I had an intelligent reaction then too because they haven't turned on me during this Hysteria, even though some of them are vaxxed.
I hear you. As I try to incorporate epistemic humility into my way of life, I find myself thinking, more and more, "there but for the sheer luck that I smelled the bullshit this time, go I!" (Or something like that.)
Got you. On a friends group of maybe 12 and family group of 35 I stopped posting slightly challenging views. And I feel angry. I wonder how I'm going to react if and when they say "Sh1t, you were right!". Part of me does want to reply "Oh just go f*&k yourself! How can such an intelligent and reasonable person like yourself get hooked by this?". But I also know this can't be the way forward. Grace helped me choose the Red Pill.
Which also means they'll be placing a Taboo curse on some words like "breakthrough cases" and "doesn't work" and "this is insanity". Opposite of ol' Voldy, if we *don't* say Hail Fauci multiple times a day, the Snatchers will come to get us.
Okay, let's change the mood. I recommend watching the YouTube channel Academy of Ideas, the video "Individual vs Tyranny" published on January 18, 2017.
Ok, Cat. You’re bright as hell, but I have to ask what life you’re on if you’re referencing Harry Potter? I’m guessing your second life / decade. Certainly no more than your third?
When they lose the next election, and they will, that will be an interesting conundrum for them. The partisans who used this will not give a shit about dropping it and moving on (ala Nate Silver via Defund the Police) but the covidians will not care at all. They will want to keep going down. That will be the best part to watch in all of this madness.
An unavoidable aspect of atheist collectivism is the need for a villain. How can I deem myself righteous if not for someone who is evil. So they must identify a villain. The young seem to be even more zealous as they are dealing with a lot of other anxieties, and this has given them a "righteous" cause. Before, we could sit back and avoid their direct condemnation, although maybe not their suspicion. The vaccine has made visible the line of separation, making it clear we're in the "evil group". I agree. It's heartbreaking. But there are individualists in their ranks. They're on our side and don't know it. They're only pretending to hold a grudge and secretly admire your courage and independence.
@quixotic - I've faced a similar situation with family & friends who virtue signal and judge me & others for "not taking it seriously" I kindly remind them that I take my health and my life very seriously.. regardless of Covid (although it was a nice kick in the rear) by eating healthy, working out frequently, taking in balanced perspectives from a variety of sources and trying be kind / acknowledge that everybody is doing their best. That's how I operate but I know for many who criticize, it's the insecurity of "well you didn't do jab+mask.. and I did" that gives them a moral superiority. I don't know about you but I'm generally skeptical of the easy fix solution (especially when the data is less than compelling) and would rather do the hard work to live the life I think is best for me. So if it's similar for you.. let them know that you're not selfish and that you care for them. That you're doing the best you can - just like they are :)
With loved ones - it's not about who is "right" just try and love them and show kindness.. hopefully they'll reciprocate. The division from politicians, MSM, etc. has been brutal over the last couple years but it's up to us to rise above it for those that matter to us.
I hope you stick to your guns because you have to live with yourself, not your relatives. I know it’s hard. This also shows what kind of people they are. Maybe they aren’t worthy of you, at least in this moment.
Hi, pa. Saw your comment as I read through some of these older threads (newish subscriber here). Wondering how you're doing these days?
As a fellow liberal in an extremely liberal community, I relate to your situation—though thankfully family and friends have been pretty respectful of my choice. Still, it's terribly disorienting to be at odds with your "tribe." Humans are meant to feel a sense of belonging.
Anyway, I hope you're holding yourself together. This shit's brutal. But you're most definitely not alone.
Show them this clip of the CDC director admitting to Blitzer in early August that the jabs don't stop infection or transmission of the Delta variant and that the unvaxxed and fully vaxxed have similar viral loads.
Also, make sure they know that the Delta variant arose in India in December 2020...before the jabs. And the Lambda variant arose in Peru in August 2020...before the jabs.
Tell them the ratio of Delta infections in unvaxxed to fully vaxxed in England has dropped precipitously in the last two months, from 6.7 as of June 21 to 2.5 as of August 15.
The "fully vaxxed" are fast catching up to the unvaxxed in Delta infections...
As of August 15...
73,372 Fully Vaxxed Infections
183,133 Unvaxxed Infections
2.5 times more infections in Unvaxxed versus Fully Vaxxed.
Israel just posted the highest number of infections since the pandemic began. Most of their adult population has had two injections and well over a million have had a third injection.
Simply put, the jabs don't work. IMO, it seems they are making things worse.
And, yes, your unwillingness to just comply is worth being alienated from those you love so much. They owe you an apology. You have one body and one life. The jabs don't work, and they aren't safe.
Why would you possibly care what your teenage nieces think of you? Why? Their brains aren’t fully developed. They lack experience with deception on a societal level. They have no fundamental understanding of the behind the scenes machinations of Big Pharma and the agencies plagued with regulatory capture meant to contain them. I love my nieces and nephews. I also love my 3 dogs and cat. I look to none of them for validation.
I’m sorry if my comment came across as harsh / uncaring. We’re all human and desire connection. Perhaps you can utilize this situation as a point of instruction for your nieces. Perhaps not. Either way, adhere to your convictions (assuming you’ve thought them through sufficiently for yourself).
on PR they are really asking for proof. you need to show a vaxx card or at least a photo of it. governor is talking about mandating a QR code software system to prevent fraud. whether they can swing that is anybody's guess. PR not known as a technology implementation powerhouse...
Last winter everybody knew somebody who got the virus but didn't really get sick.
This winter everybody will know somebody who got 'fully jabbed' and got very sick.
Reee, anecdotes.
Unrelated note, but have you heard about the *trillions* of Perfectly Healthy children who have been put at risk by lax COVID-19? It has to be trillions because I've seen it at least twice on the news!
that was BEFORE DELTA
Public Health England last reported the CFR for the delta variant as 0.2% as of 5 July.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
—George Orwell, 1984
Can we please make Orwell fiction again?
How long will it take for the "blame the unvaxxed" people to realize that sooner or later, some of us will start "blaming the vaxxed" for the surge? My guess, unlike yours Sir Bad Cat, is never. Despite the obvious data from Israel and elsewhere, I *STILL* have friends, and some of them who are MDs, who still cry out, "Get your vax!" Religion is hard to shake. The COVID dumpster fire became religious a while back. #GetsBumpyFromHere
I’m tired of hearing “it would have been much worse if I hadn’t been vaccinated”
Maybe it's worse because they were vaccinated.
There will be people who cling to the sinking ship till the very end, I am afraid. What I desperately hope is that enough people join us over here in reality so that the crazy voices don't hold so much sway. Someone I know who was very pro-lockdown, pro-mask, pro-vaccination (and you're bad if you don't get vaccinated) has started to show the ability to at least question the narrative. It's going to be an uphill battle for sure though.
Julius Ruechel's recent article helped me turn a corner. "All" we have to do; perhaps what we can only do; is to sow a seed of doubt; and leave it at that. So I have my stock of replies (and a growing list of credible references) at hand, for use from time-to-time.
https://twitter.com/CNNSitRoom/status/1423422301882748929
Show them this clip of the CDC director admitting on CNN in early August that the jabs do not stop infection or transmission of the delta variant and that the unvaxxed and fully vaxxed have similar viral loads.
Maybe it will do the trick. Maybe.
https://twitter.com/CNNSitRoom/status/1423422301882748929
Maybe is right. You and I both know this ain't about science, facts, or data! The problem I see, and that is not being mentioned, is that the vaccine is NOT aimed at Delta anyway. The boosters *might* be aimed at Delta, but the current vaccine is not, despite approval for the licensed version from Pfizer.
I believe the booster being used in Israel is just another injection of the same Pfizer vaxxine potion.
I've seen no evidence that the boosters Biden and Fauci are discussing are different that the original injections.
And, if they are, what evidence do we have that they are "safe"...especially since we know the first potions weren't safe for many people?
Hundreds of millions of people were injected before the Salk study came out on April 30. Golly, folks, turns out the spike protein damages the endothelial cells that line all your lymph and blood vessels...but not to worry, though, 'cause the virus spikes "behave very differently than those safely encoded by vaccines". I mean they said so...it must be true.
https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/
I really, really hate these people now.
I think this winter will be shitshow (technical term here lol). The timing to the fading efficacy and the northern flu season is going to be a perfect storm. The question is, does the vaccine make things worse? Well, the real question is, does the US collect the right data en masse to ensure that analysis can happen? And is it available?
I’m not sure about things like ADE, vaccine derived mutations, etc. but people will change their perceptions if the storm hits the way I think it does. In the end, we are shaped by our experiences around us, regardless of facts presented at times. If this happens, the covid vaccine will become a punch line of a bad joke.
Yes, we will have a big winter surge in most parts of the US. The SE had a worse summer surge than winter last year, and I would expect the same thing this year. But the NE, CA, etc with small summer surges will have a bad winter per seasonality from last year.
What about sunk costs? I worry people will hold tight. But I love the optimism of this post! I needed it today when the mask mandate when back into effect in IL..
there is no more vocal nor radicalized convert than one who just realized they have been duped.
sure, some are going to fall for sunk cost fallacy and agree to "just one more" but that seems like a much harder sell than the last one.
you're never going to convince everyone. the question is can we tip enough of the middle over that the general consensus and gestalt changes.
i suspect this endless drip of new vaxxed illness will prove formidable in that regard.
"there is no more vocal nor radicalized convert than one who just realized they have been duped" - Agreed, and they will get very angry.
And only 10% have to start getting mad to start pulling the rest along.....
But, again, surely this would have featured in their massively-resourced scenario-planning (they HAVE to have known what the outcomes of the vax would be).....?
So I do really worry - maybe they WANT people to get mad and protest in the streets....?
Cos then of course it's back to managing a known scenario.......
(And just as well the troops are back to help with all this nonsense).......
Then it's a state of emergency against a very-well identified enemy.......
And that might be game-over for the resistance (for the time being anyway).
Or maybe I think too much.
Someone pass me a drink.
sunk cost fallacy is very strong among the deductive crowd, there is always some anecdote to stick to their needle and masks.
A lot of this goes back to two atavistic American traits now nearing the entrail stage--education and faith. If people's minds are developed into anything close to their potential, critical thinking skills should ultimately guide them into seeing far beyond a sunk cost fallacy. But what about faith? What about an innate sense that a higher being or the hand of fate will protect them from a disease that kills about 3 out of every 1,000 people ESPECIALLY if they believe they are noble individuals worth protecting and that have an inherent worth apart from what the State can demand in the way of sacrifice?
My reality doesn't confirm... Friend at the gym told me this morning she knows two people who have already had a third shot.
let's see how they feel in 6 months when it's time for a 4th...
On the other hand, doomsday cults always have an explanation when the rapture doesn't arrive on schedule.
The one I'm seeing here in Faucistan is an explicit Dolchstoßlegende:
"We would have won, but the Bad Minority stabbed us in the back" -- i.e. people who didn't get vaccinated allowed it to spread and mutate and evolve fangs and claws and have its way with our women, etc.
Still, I try to be optimistic: each time Doomsday doesn't come, adherents at the margin will get disillusioned, and gradually it will be whittled down.
I take Gato’s point about studies, but there is an established biological mechanism whereby viruses mutate in the bodies of the vaccinated; it’s analogous to antibiotic resistance, which is fairly well known. We’ll see
I agree to a point, el Gato. My concern is how the grifters will spin the message. Will they be honest with us and tell us that the therapeutics don’t work, which won’t surprise many in this thread as the trials were games by only including under 70 and healthy folks, or will they blame the unvaxxed, Trump, white supremacists, climate change and irreverent pricks like me? I will lay 2-1 odds that they reach for one or two of these out of the gate. Any takers? BTW, get ready for the “Trump rushed the vaccines” narrative once we head into flu season. Based on what I have seen, unelected health administrators, Trump haters and COVID hall monitors will cling to their narratives until the bitter end.
So if the only protection is to have the "vaccine" stimulate antibody production, and this requires constant "top-ups", then by implication they want your body to be producing antibodies 24/7 over weeks, or I guess, months? Is this not an unhealthy condition long term?
Nah, they did that 2 month study and it was fine (except for the severe side effects and people who dropped out).
NO trials were run for 3 (4, 5, 6??) doses (as far as I know)
and NO trials were run mixing the vaccines (as far as I know)
So anyone that takes a 3rd dose or mixes vaccines is the trial
The key will then be to what extent the double-vax reduces hospitalization and death. No one beyond the very frail should take a booster when there is NO data to back up the value of taking one, and plenty of side effects.
The push for third, or more booster shots brings to mind Jason Fung's book, The Cancer Code, this specific section (pg. 173):
"WHAT CAUSES CANCER?
Virtually any form of cellular or DNA damage may cause cancer .... The damage induced must be both:
sublethal and
chronic"
Doesn't these repeat mRNA vaccines make you wonder?
now your friends have 13 times the protection they had from the mostly useless vax.
my ball park estimate of consumer risk of "the vaxx works better than unvax" is about 80% the statement is false.
maybe a slight decline in icu for high risk elders (30% eyeballing israel data).
I predict a hard backfiring in some places where they are requiring vax and still testing (looking at you Standford and MIT). The cognitive dissonance has been strong, but reality has a funny way of persisting.
My kid is at Penn State and I reached out to them today to challenge their policy of weekly testing for the unvaccinated and no testing for the vaccinated. Kid had covid already. Pointed out that they are testing the wrong kids and wasting a lot of time and money.
They are going to get back to me.
This house of cards will certainly collapse. It is just a matter of when. I heard that Franciscan University (conservative Catholic institution) is allowing proof of natural immunity as equivalent to vaccine. That is the only institution (if correct) that I am aware of to take this step - so far. To follow should be the acknowledgement that the former is, in fact, superior to the latter. But equivalency is a good starting point.
my alma mater home coming and reunion is virtual again......
we old codgers need to say home bc vaxxes do not work!
nor will the booster, except to boost prevalence of ade!
cdc/fda are wrong all the time.
Step-kid is at Northeastern in Boston. Last he shared, they needed vaccination, weekly testing and masks to step into a non-virtual live class. The university itself is doing the testing at sites in campus and has gotten the process to be quite efficient. I’m assuming these universities are collecting the data and if so, should provide enlightening at least for numbers of breakthroughs in a fully-vaxxed, fairly homogenized, lower-risk population. That is, if someone is allowed to crunch the numbers in a meaningful, straightforward way.
Nick George Flag of Cyprus
@the_nick_nick
Replying to
@MarkChangizi and @21WIRE
One of my fathers closest friends has was double vaccinated in March along with his wife. A few weeks ago they both caught covid, my fathers friend is now coughing up blood and his wife has been hospitalised. #vaccines have failed.
12:32 PM · Aug 17, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
1 Retweet
1 Quote Tweet
i have an acquaintance two dose vaxxed with co morbs who tested positive and so far has a mild chest cold like presentation.
be careful with anecdotes.
that said in november i start supplementing with quercetin like i have not had the shots. i do vit d and zinc year round.
oh yeah, I am already seeing it with FB "friends"- plus they add "if only everyone would wear their masks" kind of thing. Entertaining. QUESTION: How accurate is VAERs? I would like to use them as a source, but Reuters shot them down, saying "anyone" could post a side effect/reaction/death etc. which I know isn't true, but still. Thanks!
I saw a reputable doctor do an eye-opening presentation on VAERS. He is not a conspiracy theorist, nor a chicken-little. Bottom Line: While VAERS is not capable of generating data that would allow a precise statistical analysis, it is quite capable of generating a "signal" that *should* raise red flags. The normalized number of deaths and adverse reactions from the COVID vaccines is already at something like 40X the normalized levels for any previous vaccine. Call VAERS suspect if you like, but that much difference is not due to drunk college students trying to make Pfizer look bad.
I challenge anyone who claims VAERS is full of false reports to attempt to submit a false report and see how far they get before either giving up or being unable/unwilling to continue. Everyone submitting a report does so under threat of penalties for filing a false report, and the submission requires enough information that you’re going to be pretty easy to track down and penalize if you do submit one.
I would say the “pre-politicization of the database” studies are likely very accurate - the vast majority of the reports are factual (though there’s no way to 100% guarantee each event is “vax-caused”) and what is in there is almost certainly only a fraction of the actual number of occurrences.
True. I submitted mine. I was bullied into this from work (and I quit because I can) and had immediate effects and a lasting numbness issue after three weeks still. It takes a lot of data and email address. You would have to go through a lot of trouble and create unique fake email addresses to submit a bunch of fake claims.
Oh this was one dose. Will not ever get a second one.
I wonder how those arm/shoulder problems work out for wheelchair users. For them, going easy on one arm is not an option
So sorry you are going through this. I am afraid the other way...that they are NOT being reported (deaths and illness/reactions) just because it seems to be so difficult to do. Thank you for comment.
I had a real claim and gave up. It’s asks for a lot of information you won’t have if you are not the health care provider. I guess I could have left all the lot and dose stuff blank but it was difficult and a huge pain.
Thank you. I am thinking along those lines also. So hard to navigate. So much information to enter. So people are not. (Are health professionals doing this I wonder?)
Most of the VAERS reports, about low 80%, are from healthcare professionals and employees of the vaccine companies.
It is a felony to file a false report.
Thank you. I was trying to "look around" and do a data dig and I got as far as having to submit some ID # of some kind. So I trust what is on there mostly. Thanks again.
how likely is it that we're seeing the effects of ADE?
My program is:
- get vaxed and boosted. (I'm high risk.)
- do a rapid test before flying (to protect others) and and wear an N95 in the airport and on the plane.
- wear a medical mask when required (but not otherwise).
- live outside as much as possible.
- keep my bubble small.
- accept the fact that I'm going to get it, but delay as long as possible to allow treatments to mature.
You do whatever you think is best! Take care and stay healthy friend :)
And I would say research prophylactic therapies, and discuss with your doctor.
Sure hope this is correct. I look forward to watching the sweater unravel - and the sooner the better !
Excellent analysis as ever El Gato.
I have not needed to travel internationally from the UK since the start of this shit show, but I now need to go to the Netherlands from the UK. They are hysterically demanding nor only both shots but still 10 days quarantine as well. Probably brexit influenced perversity - as they do not require either from a lot of other EU schengen countries.
Trying to work out a possible way around it (I was coerced into the first AZ shot but desperately do not want the second one) is making my head hurt & looking incredibly difficult 🤬. At least in the US people (I don't think) have these insane inter state travel restrictions.
Much as I detest the phrase "lived experience" (what experience is not?), you get a pass on it, gato, since your writings are so clear.
in general, i detest it as well.
but it seemed actually apropos here and i derive a little personal giggle from turning the vernacular of the woke against them so...
I think there is a material difference also, between "my lived experience is [x] and therefore we must enact policy [y] as a perfect solution for all" and "my lived experience is [x] and therefore your vision of policy [y] as a perfect solution for all is incomplete."
The former fosters univariate analysis and is usually meant to preempt thought. The latter fosters multivariate analysis and PROVOKES thought.
Speaking of turning the vernacular of the woke against them, for those who haven't heard James Lindsay's recent diatribe on vaccine-passports-as-systemic-racism, I recommend it. https://youtu.be/dYLr7C-asN4
you had me at "univariate analysis to preempt thought."
good line. will probably steal.
Have we reached the point in our relationship where, when I mention that not only do I plan to steal, but also that I will do so likely without attribution, it was already a foregone conclusion?
Hopefully what's going on at Israel awakes more people. Many have taken the jab seeing it as the ticket back to normal. We should know already we cannot do that with politicians as they have been emulating Darth Vader to the letter ("I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further").
And alas, the issue I see with some of those who got sick despite the jab is the statement "It could have been worse without the jab". How do they know that? Sadly, many won't easily accept they have been duped because that would imply admitting they were fooled by government and public health officials.
As my covidan mom says, 'how can you know if you don't watch the news?' And so they will go down with the ship as well everyone who relies upon the media for their schtick.
Go and look at Nate Silver's thread on Twitter yesterday. He posted a couple of questioning the narrative posts, really riled the left up, then this:
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1432490644329611265
But he's back at it again this AM, nagging him, this 'having lost the plot." It's sorta like a self-parody.
"you cannot stop what people see or what they experience"
I believe this, as long as their mind is not stuck inside the identity of their phone world. When I was in Tanzania for nine months (and it is still very much 2019 inside the country) I would ask why they didn't fall for it (very few have smartphones) and they would reply along these lines: 'we can see if our neighbors have it, the word of mouth, on the street, we know what is real.'
But I question whether the ultra smartphone tethered Covidians know what is real any longer in order to have that experience. All that said, the injection is not like a mask. It is poison to many with side effects. We will have to see what the fall-off rate is for the 3rd shot. If it's only like 10-15% or if it's like 30-40% that say no. If it's the latter then we can expect this to end.
I thought "covidian" meant someone who favors ending restrictions.
I looked at Silver's tweets and could not see anything "controversial" in them; highly supportive of the ludicrous "getting infected means the vaccines are working" narrative.
A covidian/covidien, get it. I think is a term I first read with CJ Hopkins. He has some stack on it.
OK, you have to measure it by a normie standard. I am sure you can see his tweets on Amherst yesterday and today Duke, ie 'lost the plot'? But he keeps on defaulting back to normie. Baby steps.
And I'm just going to continue not using "covidian" and discontinue posting drunk comments mocking people who use it because I thought they were referring to me.
Right, but he means that in signaling a lack of faith in the vaccines, various institutions are "misinterpreting" the obvious fact that the vaccines do not work (as "vaccines") - he is not saying that he thinks the vaccines do not work.
"Who are you going to believe, the New York Times or your own lying eyes?" essentially sums up a conversation I had with my rarely heard from First Estate uncle who has been sheltering in his summer home waiting for NYC to "come back", as he puts it. He's looking forward to his booster shot and pooh-poohs these anecdotes even when I mentioned that the fully vaccinated Rev. Jesse Jackson and his wife both caught COVID and landed in ICU (Mrs. Jackson, though hear the Rev. is doing better).
Unfortunately, this will go down in history as a great failure of the FDA: I've worked on CRO's doing clinical trials, and it looked to me that Pfizer designed their studies the same way we did: oversample subjects under 50, white, male, no comorbidities. Sure, they had to pick from all groups but you can tip the scales by oversampling this way. Now reality from Israel and increasingly domestic evidence point to something suspected but buried: over 60 and/or over 6 months from "fully vaccinated" and protection wanes quickly.
The only good thing I can see is that immunity is highest here in late summer so maybe a good number can get it out of the way now, we do appear to be at or near the top of the curve now.
Just in:
California Democrats Drop Bill to "Mandate" Vaccinations. Good foot soldier that it is, the LA Times tries to cast this as anything but a defeat (extra time is simply needed to "craft the strongest bill possible", etc., more junk, etc., more Libby cracker bullshit, etc.) but it seems like this may be watershed moment. Article does mention that an onslaught of phone calls and protests to legislators may have been a contributing reason for the retreat. Really:)?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/democratic-lawmakers-drop-idea-california-012820726.html
Told u this shit is gonna fall apart, I just got it last week, totally die to the mandate, both my wife & I stayed coof free for the whole time, however we got it last week, my wife had tremendous side effects, all day the day after, absolutely horrible
Hope springs eternal. I would say everyone I know who knows this is happening just glazes over if you talk about it. Total cognitive dissonance. You don't seem to realize how powerful that is.
Folks ARE saying: THe passports will dramatically reduce infections ANd the push people to get the shots
Yep; spaces all shut down. And our friends and family are all primed against us saying anything. LOL its a bit like ADE - they got the "anti-vaxxer vax" and are now super-primed for anything that comes out of our mouths....... So we need to come up with our own "argument variants" to see if it can get past their defenses........ And if it's sneaky enough it might "break through" and they will unwittingly pass on our argument to others. OMG
> All [62] recovered uneventfully.
How does that square with the many warnings about "long COVID"?
That's a lot of panic mongering. The actual data says is about 13% have SOME after effects beyond 2 weeks, which is about the same as many other viruses. And clearance after that is similar to others as well.
If you are correct about the vaccines, we should see a major spike in Europe over the winter. They had a much slower initial rollout, so most are still within 3-5 months of vaccination. The UK and Canada should provide some interesting data. They rolled out the vaccines around the same time as us, but spaced the second doses longer apart (more out of necessity). One possible explanation for the waning efficacy is that the second doses were dispensed too soon after the first.
Well I have first hand knowledge of Canada. Just warning you our data will be all over the place. First off, The most vulnerable started to be vaxxed in March and the interval between 1st and 2nd dose was set at 4 months. Canada was at the back of the line in the G7 initially because our incompetent man-child PM and his merry band of incompetents, put us way behind our G7 partners because we danced with CanSino (yup hard to believe but true) until the Chinese government told us to crap in our hats, so as our brilliant leaders have repeated at least 100,000 times, “we have secured the most robust supply of vaccinations in the G7 at 400 million does. For those of you who don’t know much about Canada besides stronger Canadian beer and poutine, there are approximately 36 million people in Canada (size of the woke republic of California) so we have plenty of the therapeutics but for some reason, we also just ordered 50 million boosters. It really is Three Stooges type execution here but with a captured and bribed MSM and over 50% of the population full on COVID disciples, it is like pushing a ball of yarn uphill, Gato! Sooo, for the last 2+ months we have enough of these therapeutics for everyone to now get their two shots in a month. Lastly, there are many people who have mixed and matched because they got an AZ first after PH swore up and down that they were safe only to cancel them a couple weeks later and a Pfizer first only to be to be told 4 months later that they will need to take Moderna or wait until Pfizer arrives. Will be next to impossible to compare apples to apples but that won’t matter because the man behind the curtain will just massage the number to suit their narrative and the stenographers will just take copious notes.
:)
I wish I could be as optimistic. What's needed is for a new media storm to take over and people will stop thinking about covid and the passports will just fade away. Unless it's truly something more devious, then we're screwed
Yeah. The world needs new problems.
Brilliant, as always, I appreciate what you do so much.
Agreed, but I do think el Senor Gato has a point. You can bullshit people pretty much forever and they will keep eating it up, but only if they get some reward for eating bullshit, such as dopamine hits from Red Guarding the proles. But you can't bullshit reality. Here I would defer to Orlov: "A foundation of lies can only be kept from crumbling under carefully controlled circumstances. For instance, a certain shady oligarch may promote a certain vaccine as effective against a certain virus whereas his real intention is to stop population growth by making women sterile. This works because corporate structures can be organized around a management strategy known as mushroom theory (keep them in the dark and feed them shit). But it doesn’t work for an entire sprawling [Empire of Lies and Chaos], where the truth inevitably leaks out, contradictions mount, morale plummets. One lie always deserves another, and then the making of mistakes, the efforts to fix mistakes and the efforts to hide mistakes all become largely interchangeable."
But that doesn;t keep them pushing: "The World Health Organization has just released a guiding document for a digital vaccine certificate that will be blockchain based. This will be used to implement a vaccine passport in every country. It’s funded by the Bill & Melinda Gate’s Foundation & Rockefeller Foundation."
This one has me quite deeply worried. Maybe we are very foolish to believe that things will crumble as vaccine trouble mounts. They must have figured this in their scenario-planning, if the origins go back as far as we think. And they must be super-resourced, confident and determined - e.g. 4M lives as collateral damage - no problem!
So where are they weakest? Maybe we have to start letter-writing campaigns to our still democratically-elected representatives, and tell them in no uncertain terms that their jobs are on the line?
ahh, but what has been so wonderfully potent, at least among my group of acquaintances, are precisely those who were so high and mighty and got vaxxed and played the performative virtue signaling to the hilt.
then they get sick, get shunned, and bear the full brunt of what they have been dishing out as everyone turns on them for having "the scarlet C" and being "fallen."
form what i have seen, that's one doozie of a red pill.
and it spreads.
watch.
water torture by anecdote got us into this mess. it may be just the thing to get us out.
i've kind of landed on the "those who start food fights better be ready for some spaghetti in their hair" outlook. i am happy to see some of those so eager to dish it out have to take some in return. that's how they learn not be be such a sanctimonious jerk going forward.
Why dance around calling infection with SARS-CoV-2 “the scarlet C”. It’s a slightly more than minor respiratory virus that has not significantly increased all-cause mortality. Pretending this virus is something more only feeds into the false narrative that we must take unprecedented measures against it.
Fair enough. My frustration is not directed at you, personally. Without ulterior motives of completely reshaping society, this lab-leak would’ve been a blip on the public health radar.
I realize what I'm going to say may be a bitter pill for some to swallow, but if your family (or friends) can turn on you because teevee told them to, you are better off without them in your life. You may love them but the feeling isn't mutual and it was highly conditional.
I had a friend who called me "horrible" and "uncaring" because I refused to get hysterical about this even at the start. As I told her (and she should know with her mother being a doctor in PR, btw) that the last thing you do in am emergency is get hysterical because that's how mistakes are made and people get hurt or die. I speak from experience and she KNOWS that I do. Nah, teevee said anyone not reacting hysterically and literally thinking the world is ending with The Black Death 2.0 is bad and wrong so, I'm bad and wrong. She thought the world was ending and I know it's not. Then she contacts me excitedly 5 months later to announce a pregnancy. I said, "interesting decision for someone who thinks the world is ending." That was the last I heard from her. Good riddance and hopefully that poor child ends up smarter despite their parentage.
2020-1 has been a merciless sorting hat.
so many who thought they were gryffindor turned out to be slitherin.
Also, quite a few who thought they were Ravenclaw turned out to be squibs.
or worse: dudley's parents.
Who knew there were so many Dudley's parents around till the last year exposed them?
Touché.
Indeed. I find myself *still* unsure what the wreckage will be with the results of "the sorting hat" as a backdrop. Do I just let it go, since propaganda is a mighty powerful tool? Is the fact that I just happened to take the Red Pill this time sufficient reason for me to kick people who believed the propaganda to the curb permanently? Damned if I know!
Yeah I wrestled with that as well. My neighbors, I'll forgive because I'm not THAT close to them and I have no expectations of then beyond basic courtesy. People who are family, close/best friends who should know the kind of person you are and turns on you anyway because an anonymous 3rd party said to do so? Nah, they're treacherous. These disagreements went so far beyond simple difference of opinion to moralizing and witch hunting.
I knew people who voted Trump in 2016. I didn't demand they be burned at the stake as many did (and still are). I asked, "but, why?!" And I listened sincerely. Glad I had an intelligent reaction then too because they haven't turned on me during this Hysteria, even though some of them are vaxxed.
I hear you. As I try to incorporate epistemic humility into my way of life, I find myself thinking, more and more, "there but for the sheer luck that I smelled the bullshit this time, go I!" (Or something like that.)
Got you. On a friends group of maybe 12 and family group of 35 I stopped posting slightly challenging views. And I feel angry. I wonder how I'm going to react if and when they say "Sh1t, you were right!". Part of me does want to reply "Oh just go f*&k yourself! How can such an intelligent and reasonable person like yourself get hooked by this?". But I also know this can't be the way forward. Grace helped me choose the Red Pill.
I wonder about that too-- what am I going to say when my sister gives that call to say 'you were right; haha.
I am sure my response will not be what runs through my head right now.
Funny I keep thinking the best analogy for today is Harry Potter. Unfortunately we are at the point where the ministry fell.
Which also means they'll be placing a Taboo curse on some words like "breakthrough cases" and "doesn't work" and "this is insanity". Opposite of ol' Voldy, if we *don't* say Hail Fauci multiple times a day, the Snatchers will come to get us.
Okay, let's change the mood. I recommend watching the YouTube channel Academy of Ideas, the video "Individual vs Tyranny" published on January 18, 2017.
The time of the R's:
Review what you thought about stuff and your relationships
Release some
Restart or Rekindle others
Remember why you are here in the first place
Rejoice in large and small mercies
Agreed. Although I sorted into Slytherin on Pottermore, I'm clearly a Snape-ish Slytherin (our birthdays are only a couple days apart).
Ok, Cat. You’re bright as hell, but I have to ask what life you’re on if you’re referencing Harry Potter? I’m guessing your second life / decade. Certainly no more than your third?
Panic helped win the election. That's what happens when we have such a partisan CDC. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/filings-show-all-but-five-political-donations-from-cdc-employees-since-2015-have-gone-to-democrats
When they lose the next election, and they will, that will be an interesting conundrum for them. The partisans who used this will not give a shit about dropping it and moving on (ala Nate Silver via Defund the Police) but the covidians will not care at all. They will want to keep going down. That will be the best part to watch in all of this madness.
With so many sanctuary (immigration, guns) cities and states popping up, I wonder when the first federal-tax-sanctuaries will be declared.
Or an anti-pharma sanctuary/state. That's already happening to some extent, with the migrations.
how can they lose the election? They have already bought it.
An unavoidable aspect of atheist collectivism is the need for a villain. How can I deem myself righteous if not for someone who is evil. So they must identify a villain. The young seem to be even more zealous as they are dealing with a lot of other anxieties, and this has given them a "righteous" cause. Before, we could sit back and avoid their direct condemnation, although maybe not their suspicion. The vaccine has made visible the line of separation, making it clear we're in the "evil group". I agree. It's heartbreaking. But there are individualists in their ranks. They're on our side and don't know it. They're only pretending to hold a grudge and secretly admire your courage and independence.
This! Sad but pretty accurate
@quixotic - I've faced a similar situation with family & friends who virtue signal and judge me & others for "not taking it seriously" I kindly remind them that I take my health and my life very seriously.. regardless of Covid (although it was a nice kick in the rear) by eating healthy, working out frequently, taking in balanced perspectives from a variety of sources and trying be kind / acknowledge that everybody is doing their best. That's how I operate but I know for many who criticize, it's the insecurity of "well you didn't do jab+mask.. and I did" that gives them a moral superiority. I don't know about you but I'm generally skeptical of the easy fix solution (especially when the data is less than compelling) and would rather do the hard work to live the life I think is best for me. So if it's similar for you.. let them know that you're not selfish and that you care for them. That you're doing the best you can - just like they are :)
With loved ones - it's not about who is "right" just try and love them and show kindness.. hopefully they'll reciprocate. The division from politicians, MSM, etc. has been brutal over the last couple years but it's up to us to rise above it for those that matter to us.
the foundation of defensible western civilization since the declaration of independence [John Locke, too] is respect for individual liberty.
teevee and social media are propagandizing the weak to turn on the indivual.
national cemeteries are filled with people who gave at least time and many their lives to individual liberty....
we shall not let them to have died in vain as lincoln observed at gettysburg in nov 1863.
Your situation sucks. I'm sorry you're dealing with that.
I hope you stick to your guns because you have to live with yourself, not your relatives. I know it’s hard. This also shows what kind of people they are. Maybe they aren’t worthy of you, at least in this moment.
Hi, pa. Saw your comment as I read through some of these older threads (newish subscriber here). Wondering how you're doing these days?
As a fellow liberal in an extremely liberal community, I relate to your situation—though thankfully family and friends have been pretty respectful of my choice. Still, it's terribly disorienting to be at odds with your "tribe." Humans are meant to feel a sense of belonging.
Anyway, I hope you're holding yourself together. This shit's brutal. But you're most definitely not alone.
Show them this clip of the CDC director admitting to Blitzer in early August that the jabs don't stop infection or transmission of the Delta variant and that the unvaxxed and fully vaxxed have similar viral loads.
Also, make sure they know that the Delta variant arose in India in December 2020...before the jabs. And the Lambda variant arose in Peru in August 2020...before the jabs.
https://twitter.com/CNNSitRoom/status/1423422301882748929
Tell them the ratio of Delta infections in unvaxxed to fully vaxxed in England has dropped precipitously in the last two months, from 6.7 as of June 21 to 2.5 as of August 15.
The "fully vaxxed" are fast catching up to the unvaxxed in Delta infections...
As of August 15...
73,372 Fully Vaxxed Infections
183,133 Unvaxxed Infections
2.5 times more infections in Unvaxxed versus Fully Vaxxed.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf
As of June 21...
10,834 Fully Vaxxed Infections
71,932 Unvaxxed Infections
6.7 times more infections in Unvaxxed versus Fully Vaxxed.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf
Deaths from/with the Delta variant have been upside down for weeks.
Delta in England as of August 15…
73,372 Fully Vaxxed Infections
183,133 Unvaxxed Infections
289 more deaths of fully vaxxed than unvaxxed.
334 more deaths of fully vaxxed than unvaxxed in 50+ cohort.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf
Israel just posted the highest number of infections since the pandemic began. Most of their adult population has had two injections and well over a million have had a third injection.
Simply put, the jabs don't work. IMO, it seems they are making things worse.
And, yes, your unwillingness to just comply is worth being alienated from those you love so much. They owe you an apology. You have one body and one life. The jabs don't work, and they aren't safe.
Here's another...absolutely devastating. Like you, I have many family members who've taken the jab. I worry about the future.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cheryl-cohen-dies-rare-brain-disease-second-dose-pfizer-covid-shot/?utm_source=salsa&eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=1f9fcd29-a8e2-4170-a9ec-f27f6b9f5f29
Why would you possibly care what your teenage nieces think of you? Why? Their brains aren’t fully developed. They lack experience with deception on a societal level. They have no fundamental understanding of the behind the scenes machinations of Big Pharma and the agencies plagued with regulatory capture meant to contain them. I love my nieces and nephews. I also love my 3 dogs and cat. I look to none of them for validation.
I’m sorry if my comment came across as harsh / uncaring. We’re all human and desire connection. Perhaps you can utilize this situation as a point of instruction for your nieces. Perhaps not. Either way, adhere to your convictions (assuming you’ve thought them through sufficiently for yourself).
on PR they are really asking for proof. you need to show a vaxx card or at least a photo of it. governor is talking about mandating a QR code software system to prevent fraud. whether they can swing that is anybody's guess. PR not known as a technology implementation powerhouse...