I might agree with you on most of this if not for the Florida results. That's what would have happened across the country if there were not such rampant and imbedded fraud . . . a.k.a. mail-in and drop-off ballots. Hope is gone for my children and grandchildren.
I might agree with you on most of this if not for the Florida results. That's what would have happened across the country if there were not such rampant and imbedded fraud . . . a.k.a. mail-in and drop-off ballots. Hope is gone for my children and grandchildren.
One problem with parity in fraud is that some places are easier to twist than others, and cities are among the worst. If cities tend to produce a particular kind of voter, or particular party, and rampant fraud is easier in cities, then we can expect the states at large to be heavily biased towards the party of cities. To get parity one would have to have another population center that was biased the other way, but cities are strangely one color across the country.
Have you seen what is going on in NY State? Claiming "most of it is not fraud" is misinformed when you have not actually looked at the level of fraud that is going on, not just with the ballots but with the voter rolls. The whole advantage of the machines was that so much more fraud could be done so much more easily. Remember, exit polls magically stopped being correlated to actual outcomes in 2004, the first major election after the Help America Vote Act that brought the machines into use in the Bush/Cheney Admin. https://rumble.com/v1kun2j-ny-citizens-audit-presents-weaponized-voter-rolls-epochtv-sept-20-22.html
That might well be a lot of it. I can't help but note that the most mail in voting per capita seems to happen in cities. I haven't seen the current election's numbers on that, so maybe it changed, but I had a graph someone put together from 2020 showing that cities had phenomenal numbers of mail in ballots compared to rural areas on a per capita basis. That probably replaces bussing voters etc., but it strikes me as odd.
On the other hand, I am fine with cities doing whatever corruption their local voters are willing to accept, I just wish they would stop being part of my state. If someone was to make the argument that the real problem with our electoral politics is the size of our states and the break down of cities vs rural governance, I'd be on board. Maybe no state should have more than two million people in it, and if it does it should split?
That's hard to argue with suitcases full of ballots appearing after the counting 'stopped' (Atlanta IIRC), blocks of votes changing due to 'computer error' (Antrim County, MI), 2000 Mules, boxes of 95-99% Dem votes counted multiple times, audit files deleted, and so forth.
Your point that Dems have a better 'ground game' might be true or not, but the recent results in Arizona, Pennsylvania and Michigan to start with are highly suspect. IMO, deserving a serious audit that never happened in 2020 -- 'deniers' were 'othered' by MSM and Tech, de-catformed and denigrated; nothing happened.
If the Dems truly won AZ, PA, and MI due to honest get-out-the vote campaigns, then they would welcome an audit. Methinks they doth protest too much (h/t the Bard).
I would be really curious to see a comparison between voter registration party and voter turn out for those states. I mean, it is public knowledge what party you register as, and it is public knowledge whether or not you voted. So... are lots of voting R's voting D? Is it all the hot independent action swinging things? Is voter turn out of registered D's much higher than average in some places with no corresponding R spikes? I'd be curious to see that.
(Not curious enough to figure out how to collect all the data myself, but I would be willing to help process it.)
It doesn't really take a political genius to gather up the 'unused' ballots littering the countryside and put them in the box, where nobody can investigate to see if it's actually a legal ballot.
Well, it does though. Not a genius, per se, but a lot of hands. If you drop off 10,000 ballots to a voting district with 10,000 people in it, some one is going to notice. So you have to drop off a few hundred at many different places, requiring many different people be involved. However, dropping off a few boxes with 10k ballots to a central counting area in say Philly, that's easy, and requires fewer people and less planning. The return on effort is much higher, and the chances of getting caught much lower, in the latter case, especially because there are fewer overseeing officials to bribe.
We need to shift the argument from "cheating is rampant" to "we have no way to be sure of the integrity of our elections because many states are adopting/maintainng processes designed to keep the waters muddy".
Arguing that the 2020 eleciton was stolen is manifestly a mixed-results prooposition. Arguing that the 2020 election did not produce a verifiablly reliable result is pretty much axiomatic.
That's what I've been saying. Make a 100% verifiable, rock solid electoral system, likely using all hand counted paper ballots, and I'd say forget the past fraud, I'll trade "Yup, Biden won" for "Now so there will be no more election doubt, 100% transparent, verifiable election with NO top secret, proprietary software voting machines". Fair trade.
Exactly. The entire goal was to open up so many election integrity holes that we can't possibly cover them all. Mail-in ballots without a postmark? Count 'em!
It seems most likely, Florida is one of the few states with an honest electoral system and what you saw there was likely the actual voter proportional change in sentiment. That you didn't see the same in other states to me indicates fraud.
But it's also possible that because DeSantis is being groomed by RINOs McCarthy and Paul Ryan (+GOP Megadonors), that they simply LEFT FLORIDA ALONE, to help sweeten the deal.
Rich Baris "The People's Pundit"
@Peoples_Pundit
IтАЩve received at least a half dozen calls from GOP donors who have told me the contents of their conversations AND sitting members of Congress have confirmed it. Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan have hatched a plan to defeat MAGA in 2024 and Ron DeSantis is the stool.
That's a scary thought. Not that I don't like DeSantis but DeSantis put into power by a bunch of Big Money Oligarchs who want ROI, that is EXACTLY what we don't need.
I might agree with you on most of this if not for the Florida results. That's what would have happened across the country if there were not such rampant and imbedded fraud . . . a.k.a. mail-in and drop-off ballots. Hope is gone for my children and grandchildren.
likely going to write on this shortly, but i'm less sure of that.
there has always been fraud. ballot stuffing, dead men voting, registration and bussing games, slow playing polling places, gerrymandering.
mail in is just the latest flavor and the dems figured it out faster.
but it's not mostly fraud, it's mostly rule bending and manipulation. it's more like tax avoidance than tax evasion.
parity on new tactics will come.
i fear that getting mired in "it was all cheating" pulls us off the bigger issue.
was there some cheating? yeah, of course.
how much? hard to say. AZ and PA are dodgy, but always were.
be interesting to watch the lake election play out
One problem with parity in fraud is that some places are easier to twist than others, and cities are among the worst. If cities tend to produce a particular kind of voter, or particular party, and rampant fraud is easier in cities, then we can expect the states at large to be heavily biased towards the party of cities. To get parity one would have to have another population center that was biased the other way, but cities are strangely one color across the country.
most of it is not fraud so much as adaptation.
the dems have been much better at getting out the mail in vote and using it to change and expand voting patterns.
Have you seen what is going on in NY State? Claiming "most of it is not fraud" is misinformed when you have not actually looked at the level of fraud that is going on, not just with the ballots but with the voter rolls. The whole advantage of the machines was that so much more fraud could be done so much more easily. Remember, exit polls magically stopped being correlated to actual outcomes in 2004, the first major election after the Help America Vote Act that brought the machines into use in the Bush/Cheney Admin. https://rumble.com/v1kun2j-ny-citizens-audit-presents-weaponized-voter-rolls-epochtv-sept-20-22.html
That might well be a lot of it. I can't help but note that the most mail in voting per capita seems to happen in cities. I haven't seen the current election's numbers on that, so maybe it changed, but I had a graph someone put together from 2020 showing that cities had phenomenal numbers of mail in ballots compared to rural areas on a per capita basis. That probably replaces bussing voters etc., but it strikes me as odd.
On the other hand, I am fine with cities doing whatever corruption their local voters are willing to accept, I just wish they would stop being part of my state. If someone was to make the argument that the real problem with our electoral politics is the size of our states and the break down of cities vs rural governance, I'd be on board. Maybe no state should have more than two million people in it, and if it does it should split?
That's hard to argue with suitcases full of ballots appearing after the counting 'stopped' (Atlanta IIRC), blocks of votes changing due to 'computer error' (Antrim County, MI), 2000 Mules, boxes of 95-99% Dem votes counted multiple times, audit files deleted, and so forth.
Your point that Dems have a better 'ground game' might be true or not, but the recent results in Arizona, Pennsylvania and Michigan to start with are highly suspect. IMO, deserving a serious audit that never happened in 2020 -- 'deniers' were 'othered' by MSM and Tech, de-catformed and denigrated; nothing happened.
If the Dems truly won AZ, PA, and MI due to honest get-out-the vote campaigns, then they would welcome an audit. Methinks they doth protest too much (h/t the Bard).
I would be really curious to see a comparison between voter registration party and voter turn out for those states. I mean, it is public knowledge what party you register as, and it is public knowledge whether or not you voted. So... are lots of voting R's voting D? Is it all the hot independent action swinging things? Is voter turn out of registered D's much higher than average in some places with no corresponding R spikes? I'd be curious to see that.
(Not curious enough to figure out how to collect all the data myself, but I would be willing to help process it.)
It doesn't really take a political genius to gather up the 'unused' ballots littering the countryside and put them in the box, where nobody can investigate to see if it's actually a legal ballot.
Well, it does though. Not a genius, per se, but a lot of hands. If you drop off 10,000 ballots to a voting district with 10,000 people in it, some one is going to notice. So you have to drop off a few hundred at many different places, requiring many different people be involved. However, dropping off a few boxes with 10k ballots to a central counting area in say Philly, that's easy, and requires fewer people and less planning. The return on effort is much higher, and the chances of getting caught much lower, in the latter case, especially because there are fewer overseeing officials to bribe.
We need to shift the argument from "cheating is rampant" to "we have no way to be sure of the integrity of our elections because many states are adopting/maintainng processes designed to keep the waters muddy".
Arguing that the 2020 eleciton was stolen is manifestly a mixed-results prooposition. Arguing that the 2020 election did not produce a verifiablly reliable result is pretty much axiomatic.
That's what I've been saying. Make a 100% verifiable, rock solid electoral system, likely using all hand counted paper ballots, and I'd say forget the past fraud, I'll trade "Yup, Biden won" for "Now so there will be no more election doubt, 100% transparent, verifiable election with NO top secret, proprietary software voting machines". Fair trade.
Exactly. The entire goal was to open up so many election integrity holes that we can't possibly cover them all. Mail-in ballots without a postmark? Count 'em!
Yes I agree.
It seems most likely, Florida is one of the few states with an honest electoral system and what you saw there was likely the actual voter proportional change in sentiment. That you didn't see the same in other states to me indicates fraud.
But it's also possible that because DeSantis is being groomed by RINOs McCarthy and Paul Ryan (+GOP Megadonors), that they simply LEFT FLORIDA ALONE, to help sweeten the deal.
Rich Baris "The People's Pundit"
@Peoples_Pundit
IтАЩve received at least a half dozen calls from GOP donors who have told me the contents of their conversations AND sitting members of Congress have confirmed it. Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan have hatched a plan to defeat MAGA in 2024 and Ron DeSantis is the stool.
https://twitter.com/Peoples_Pundit/status/1589075990076325888
That's a scary thought. Not that I don't like DeSantis but DeSantis put into power by a bunch of Big Money Oligarchs who want ROI, that is EXACTLY what we don't need.
Exactly. Taking a cue from "The Graduate," I have one word for you:
F-R-A-U-D.
"The Graduate"
"One word: Plastics".....like in the "plasticity" of votes
I thought the same thing.