The elitist speaks incoherently. The vaccines work, which is why the vaxxed can't go about their lives as long as there are unvaxxed out there.
The elitist has learned a talking point she thinks is a winner, because the elitist can't think for herself. But the elitist sure can feel and mindlessly spouting this kind of unscientific nonsense makes her feel seen and important.
The elitist speaks incoherently. The vaccines work, which is why the vaxxed can't go about their lives as long as there are unvaxxed out there.
The elitist has learned a talking point she thinks is a winner, because the elitist can't think for herself. But the elitist sure can feel and mindlessly spouting this kind of unscientific nonsense makes her feel seen and important.
Well, since most adults are vaxxed and it's mostly adults who drive transmission and the vaxx doesn't prevent infection or transmission, it makes sense that the vaxxed are now the larger body of drivers of transmission. But we should avoid engaging in the same kind of blame game those clowns do.
None of us are responsible for the highly mutable airborne virus doing what it does, which is something everybody used to know and understand with other such viruses. We need to get back to that world and escape this clown world where we all view each other as deadly threats.
And no it *doesn't* make sense "that the vaxxed are now the larger body of drivers of transmission" IF as we were assured the vaxxes would stop/will stop the pandemic. Did the vaxxed in every prior seasonal flu season drive transmission of the flu?
These are very critical points that need to be made over and over and over.
To wit: if the vaxxed, regardless of how many there are, if the vaxxed are driving transmission, then WHY should we unvaxxed take the jabs?? If the vaxxed are driving transmission, then it's NOT a "vaccine".
No blame game at all. Just driving home all the relevant points that the LIVs and skulls full of mush don't seem capable of processing.
It makes perfect scientific sense given, as I said, the vaxx doesn't prevent infection or spread. You're making a different point entirely, the one that the vaxx has not worked as advertised. That is implicit in my my point.
It would be nice if the true vaxx believers wised up, but you're certainly not going to accomplish that by pointing the finger at them as the threat now.
Ok, I now do see how that point was implicit. My apologies for misunderstanding.
Nevertheless, pointing out to them that they're the primary source is not "pointing fingers". It's informing them of a fact that they likely are ignorant of.
It's also not the same blame game, because we're not trying to drive, or calling for driving, them out of society and denying them hospital access, etc., like they're calling for for US.
The "primary source" is the virus, not the people. That's the point we want to drive home, or at least I do. Stop the vilification of people, vaxxed an unvaxxed. If there are vaxxed hostile to the unvaxxed - and there are - we should avoid becoming like them and focus on getting them to place the blame on the virus, not people.
The time very well might come where the vaxxed are suffering greater health and immune system vulnerability to future variants than the unvaxxed because of their choices. I would hope the unvaxxed wouldn't seek to deny them hospital access and treatment, i.e. adopt the worst of what the Branch Covidians have to offer.
You are in essence right. Stating a fact, however, is not blaming. Your logic assumes there is no difference in ability to pass on the virus between the two groups, vaccinated and non-vaccinated, in which case the bigger group would be the biggest transmitter.
But that ignores the fact that supposedly the vaccinated group shouldnтАЩt be passing on the disease at all. (No vaccine is 100% but where effective vaccines are used, transmitters among the vaccinated are rare.)
So my point is why are the vaccinated responsible for more transmissions, their larger number aside? It is contrary to the theory of vaccination, the higher the number vaccinated, the lower overall the transmission rate. The unvaccinated should be very poor transmitters because most of those they meet will be vaccinated and immune: an unvaccinated person would only infect other unvaccinated persons who would be few and far between.
However we have a complete confounding of the whole principle of immunisation, because unvaccinated people are at risk from the vaccinated as well as other unvaccinated people, and vaccinated people are at risk of infection from each other.
Imagine if children at a school were vaccinated against Measles, except for one or two of them, then vaccinated children started getting Measles but the unvaccinated children did not and weтАЩre not infectious.
So back to, why is infection rate going up, not down, in a population 80%+ double dosed and 40% triple dosed?
The only conclusion is vaccination is not doing what it should, and it raises the question os there something about the vaccination that is making that group a breeding ground for new mutations resistant to the vaccines? That is what is odd.
Since they've officially changed the definition so that it can include these COVID "vaccines," I guess we can call it that, right?
This was the great bait and switch that the Branch Covidians fall for hook, line and sinker. They have memory holed that the "vaccines" were sold to the public politically as the modern medicine miracle that would end COVID and allow life to return to normal. Trump said it, Fauci said it and of course Uncle Joe said it. Those of us who paid attention knew very early on that these were in fact leaky vaccines that had no chance of actually ending the pandemic given the kind of virus we were dealing with but at that time were told by the Branch Covidians that we were lying in an attempt to steer people away from the "vaccines" and were censored or cancelled on social media for such "misinformation."
Fast forward to now and you'll notice that the Branch Covidians have been given their talking points intended to memory hole all that and promote a new narrative that these "vaccines" were never designed or intended to do anything other than mitigate the symptoms if/when you do get infected. The unexpected and "happy surprise," they'll say, was later finding out that the vaxx does appear to help prevent infection (and transmission) for a (short) period of time post vaxx. They are working exactly as intended and promoted, they'll tell you. And in the same breath they'll support vaxx mandates on the cognitive dissonant premise that the unvaxxed pose a threat to society because they can spread the virus. That last talking point never got updated from the early promise that the vaxxed were safe and no threat to spread and the unvaxxed were the ones risking dying.
The objective evidence is that the least likely to be infected and spread are those who've recovered and have natural immunity. The newly vaxxed get infected and spread at lower rates than the unvaxxed but as the virus mutates away from the wild virus that the vaccines were developed for and their effectiveness wanes, the vaxxed become just as likely vectors as the unvaxxed. Maybe more so because the vaxxed have a false sense of security that they don't or won't act as a vector than the unvaxxed do. But that's beside the point.
The point is the vaccines nor being unvaxxed prevents infection and spread. Everybody, though least of which are the naturally immune, can be a vector and we should not be acting like the Branch Covidians by blaming the vaxxed for what the virus does. Not unless you are more interested in being like them than not being like them.
People have no idea what a cult medicine is. A friend of mine said that I was going to be angry to hear that she was refusing the vaxx; she had read up on what disasters prior coronavirus vaccine attempts were.
She was startled when I told her that I agreed with her. I said, "I went to medical school, but I never drank the Kool-aid."
This two year episode has definitely opened my eyes to how completely captured the world of medicine and health has become by the government, big pharma and publish health bureaucracies. I will never just take my doctor's or the "expert's" word for anything again. I will certainly take their word under consideration, but I don't think these clowns at the top of the public health pyramid realize just how much damage they've done to the credibility of medicine and healthcare professionals going forward.
It's gong to be a long road to regain trust.....if ever.
It's not the vaccines per se, it's the mass vaccination campaign that puts evolutionary pressure on the virus that results in immune escape (variants). But it should be understood that these kind of highly mutable, airborne viruses always mutate away from any kind of mass immunity, even that coming from natural immunity. This is why we've never been able to eliminate cold and flu viruses and short of sterilizing vaccines that are actually safe and effective, we never will.
And we should not be afraid of a virus. The "virus" no matter what it is or isn't, is being used to manufacture a crisis that can then be capitalised on for an agenda. We should not forget that and then get caught up in the weeds of the narrative. I have had to question my entire worldview around vaccines and the medical corporate complex itself. when I questioned, I discovered I have probably been scammed my entire life around what health is.
Not sure I'd say we should not be afraid of it, but we should not overreact to it and we should put it's risks across various demographics in proper perspective. From very early on it seemed obvious to me that The Great Barrington Declaration folks had it mostly right. Largely what Sweden did after unfortunately failing initially to protect the most vulnerable nursing home residents.
A targeted protection approach, where the most vulnerable assume the greatest precautions while the rest of the population, the vast, vast majority, go on living their lives as normal to achieve natural herd immunity, which then protects the most vulnerable. The vaccines coming along could have/should have been used as a tool for protecting that targeted high risk protection. Once we knew they were leaky vaccines, which was known almost immediately, that was their only truly valid use.
But the government "experts" took us down a different, clown world path, and they can't afford the risk to their reputations that an honest re-evaluation and course correction would entail. So, they become the hammer and when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. At some point, you hope they find and take the offramp. I'm personally hoping Omicron is that opportunity for them to get out of this without admitting they got it all wrong.
again, humans have evolved with viruses. They are within us all and everywhere. But 100 years of germ theory has engrained us with world view based on fear. Now, it's only been since the "pandemic", which I realized was a scam and a sham early on that is being used to install totalitarianism, that I began to question everything I believed about health and medicine. I suggest everyone do the same. Question everything...EVERYTHING about your own BELIEFS and instead of believing, think and learn and stop being afraid. Even if covid was everything the elite tell us it is, there are fates worse than death....and hiding in fear is certainly worse. They want you to trade your life for a virtual reality on Amazon. Remember that old blues song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxgY9eEFiYM
Yes, all that is good perspective. So is knowing who the virus impacts the most and who it doesn't. Having the knowledge is good and can save or extend lives. Using that knowledge to instill fear and manipulate for political or personal gain obviously not good.
Anybody who has followed all this while applying healthy skepticism and critical thinking has no choice but to question things they thought they knew before this all went down. But it's also important not to throw out the babies with the bathwater. Yes, we've evolved with and lived with pathogens our whole lives. Most of them are necessary components to developing robust, healthy immune systems as we grow and age. But some should be avoided when or where possible and the immune and protective solution for some isn't the same for others. No one size fits all and certainly nobody should be forced into medical interventions they do not want or need.
Germ theory versus terrain theory...my inner jury is still out on the two theories. But covid is no worse than the flu..and that is according to the CDC's own website if you read between the lines, which says that "covid is respiratory virus caused by a "novel" coronavirus and is spread through droplets. The majority who actually become symptomatic (many never do) develop very mild to moderate illness. A few people develop severe illness and some even die." If we were not told 24/7 by the media and because people have been forced to social distance and wear masks so that it's in our faces wherever we go, we would not know there was a pandemic...that's because there isn;t ...except maybe now that they have vaccinated. A pandemic of the vaccinated because of the injection of the spike protein...it seems the vaxxes may have caused a lot of illness.
This is where generalities aren't that helpful because we have the data and we know now (have for a long time actually) that it depends on who you are as to whether or not COVID is better or worse than the flu. Overall, COVID does appear to be more lethal than the flu, but it's hard to know exactly how much more lethal because it is tracked and coded in ways the flu never has been. But we can look at excess mortality and we can subtract what appears to be excess deaths caused by the response to COVID (lockdowns, etc.) and still find the number pretty easily exceeds our worst flu years, such as 2017.
We know that COVID is significantly more lethal than the flu to the old, the morbidly obese and those with existing immunocompromised conditions. Its 2-3 times more lethal than the flu to those demographics. For the middle age and healthy, it's roughly the same as the flu. For the young and healthy is significantly less lethal than the flu.
We should be able to shape responses around these known facts, but that would mean allowing the vast majority of people to go on with their lives be careful around the high risk groups. Instead, the response is to force the young and healthy to shoulder the burden so that the old, the fat and the sick can feel safer even if these interventions don't actually make them safer.
Not sure where you get these "statistics" such as "most adults are vaxxed." Are you listening to your TV propaganda? I think there are way more unvaccinated adults than you realize in the USA, at least. Not sure about other countries. I agree that we need to stop looking at each other as walking vectors of disease. That viewpoint is part of the propaganda that has enabled the scamdemic to successfully lockdown the world, destroy economies and jeopardize the health of millions by halting diagnostic tests and coercing people into doing unheathy things like social distancing and washing hands over and over and wearing masks and living in fear and anxiety. I say scamdemic because the presence of a virus does not a pandemic make. If we were not told every day 24/7 there was a pandemic and if we were not made to act like there was a pandemic so the fear of the virus is on everyone's mind every second, we would not know there was a pandemic...because there isn't. The WHO conveniently changed the criteria for a pandemic prior to 2020 so that this could plans could be implemented in accordance with their own guidelines. Part of any coup is divide and conquer and the virus is being used to divide us and look at each other as possible enemies. Insidious! You called it!
The data on adult vaxx rates and percentages in both the US, every US state, and countries around the world, is widely available info. You subscribe to el gato malo's substack where he posts these figures all the time, including studies such as the Harvard one that concluded "Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States." Do you think that's propaganda? Do you think el gato malo is propaganda?
You seem to be describing yourself, caught between left and right, two narratives, not realizing that NARRATIVES themselves are propaganda...both or all of them. Based on my thinking and what I have learned and continue in my 71 years on this planet I choose not to go anywhere near covid vaccines or flu shots for that matter. You can make your own choices. I do not need a duopoly of narratives to think for me.
Wendy, I don't care what choice you make. That's your business, not mine. You do you. I'm not relying in the least on on "narratives," I'm relying on data, reason and evidence. The same things gato, Berenson, etc. are relying on. Of course you don't need a "duopoly" of narratives because you've picked a single one and no amount or data, reason or evidence can ever dislodge you from it. Just the opposite end of the coin you criticize, who want to use one size fits all solutions and dismiss any evidence they don't want to hear. Fine with me. Again, you do you.
Propaganda is what is being put out by Big Pharma, the CDC, the WHO and parroted by the mainstream media. Independent journalism and bloggers like Bad Catt is not propaganda, it is actual journalism, something the mainstream media disposed of long ago. That is not to say that independent journalists cannot inject their personal bias or beliefs that coincide with the propaganda into their reporting or share their personal perspective in op eds. I haven't chosen any narrative, Hornit, that was my point. For every study you rely on to bolster ("prove") the narrative you believe in, there are contrarian studies out there...unfortunately most contrarians to the covid narrative(s) are being censored, throttled and maligned. From the very beginning of this scamdemic there are steps that I can detail to show how the entire pandemic has been manufactured, beginning with the fake pictures out of China of people falling over in the street to the WHO and CDC changing the definition of a pandemic to the fact that the virus was not properly isolated and then shown to cause cell lysis in humans to the use of PCR tests (which were not designed to nor can according to the tests creator) detect infectivity with any virus, not to mention again that covid-19 has never properly been islolated/purified (sequence was created on computer and possibly in laboratory)... to the way deaths have and are being falsely attributed to covid by declarinig anyone who has tested positive and dies (no matter if they were in an accident on freeway or got shot in a robbery) a covid death. And let's not discount the media that ramps up the fearful narrative 24/7 and every day informs us of every single one of those deaths attributed to covid, every hospitalization of a person who has tested positive, as well as the mask and social distancing mandates, isolating hospitalized patients from their families, the use of a only one medicine for treatment in hospitals and ventilation which has proved to cause death in more than 80 percent of patients who were put on the device. Then we have the ever changing vaccine lies and denials and now the variant lies. The PCR test cannot detect variants (let alone infections). The only way variant can be identified is with genetic sequencing. There are few labs in the USA doing that sequencing, so when you hear that stories about how fast Omicron for instance is spreading it is a fallacy....nothing but a trumped up narrative. And to take this full circle, let's go back to the CDC's own website where they write "COVID-19 is a disease caused by a virus called SARS-CoV-2. Most people with COVID-19 have mild symptoms, but some people can become severely ill. Although most people with COVID-19 get better within weeks of illness, some people experience post-COVID conditions." So for a virus that causes in most people mild illness why have they locked down the world? It is obviously not because of a mild virus that is only dangerous to a small percentage of people, just like the flu or pneumonia or even the common coronavirus cold. The rest is propaganda and all the steps I listed previously have been used to manufacture a scamdemic that is making billionaires and trillionaires out of a few people at the top and being used to push the Great Restting of the blobal capitalist system, which the WEC now claims is needed to balance inequality (since when does GloboCap care about equality? Now I am up to go over each of those steps that the powers that should not be have taken in its path to whatever their final solution may be. Study by study...if you wish.
Wendy, I don't care if you believe COVID is real or not either. Or whether they can sequence the genome to know the variant quickly or not. All that really matters is that SOMETHING is obviously landing people in the hospitals and resulting in excess deaths all around the world. And has been for a years or so before the vaccines were available. And we can look at the data to know who and what are most vulnerable (at risk) to that something and who aren't and we can combine that with a lot of other objective evidence. It doesn't have to come from big pharma, though much of the data that comes from big pharma does not support their narrative, or the left wing sources and we can know some things, which is what I'm doing and people like gato are doing. You appear to think all there is to know is that it's all conspiratorial BS and that's the end of the story. Fine. Good luck to you.
You do need to read up on contagious vaccines. Stuff is being transmitted, and definitely goes one way. Unless you realize it, you live in a fantasy land.
It absolutely is a blame game if or when you start pointing the finger at the vaxxed (or unvaxxed) as the problem and reason the virus continues to spread rather than disappear.
You want to behave like them, just taking the opposite side of the clown world coin, that's on you. You'll be about as effective at convincing them it's their fault as they've been convincing you. Good luck with that.
You wrote "But we should avoid engaging in the same kind of blame game those clowns do."
Who on the unvaxxed side has called for the vaxxed to be denied hospital access, to be force-locked-down, to be ostracized and shunned and prevented from exercising their civil rights?
We are in no way "engaging in the same kind of blame game".
Blaming the vaxxed for the spread is where that all begins. Blaming the unvaxxed for that is where the rest of the insanity that has followed, things like advocating the denial of health services, came from. Once you've identified one side or the other as the problem, all sorts of whacky justifications for dealing with said problem follow.
I don't GAS about "convincing them it's their fault," I only GAS about calling a spade a spade.
And the reason they haven't convinced me that it's my fault is because it's NOT my fault. That is not opinion; it's fact, as bad cattitude and Jeff Childers and Alex Berenson have ably and amply demonstrated.
The vaxx fanatics don't know it's their fault because they choose to only get their news from, apparently, the alphabet legacy media and Anthony Fauci who've lied to them almost from Day One. That's their choice, to remain ignorant. And that choice precludes ANYone from getting through to them, no matter how nicely you point out to them that they're ignoramuses with SFB.
Again, it's not the vaxxed fault. It's not the unvaxxed fault. It is nobody's fault that the virus does what it does.
You are attempting to argue that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, but Berenson and others who've done yeoman's work have never suggested that we should adopt the tactics of the vaccine fanatics to convince them to stand down.
Jesus, where have I even suggested "that we should adopt the tactics of the vaccine fanatics to convince them to stand down"??
Good for the gander? Never, nowhere, have I ever argued for denying hospital access to the sick vaxxed, or for running them out of town on a rail, or for shunning them from society, etc.. FFS, my own wife, stepd, daughter, SIL, and sibs are vaxxed.
You seem fixated on advancing false premises or straw men, whatever. Putting words in my mouth that I never even came close to saying.
You have been defending the idea that vaxxed should be blamed for transmission. That is clearly a 'suggestion' that adopting the tactics of the vaccine fanatics is ok.
If you are now walking that back and saying you do not defend that position, then just say so instead of skating around logical conclusions to your prior arguments.
That's not even close to true. And I don't need to walk back anything, because your claim that I favor adopting their tactics is a dishonest calumny not supportable in the least. And we know this, because when I asked "where have I even suggested..." you didn't quote anything, and instead you pulled out the "that is clearly a 'suggestion'..." dog whistle implication.
Here are my comments:
"These are very critical points that need to be made over and over and over.
To wit: if the vaxxed, regardless of how many there are, if the vaxxed are driving transmission, then WHY should we unvaxxed take the jabs??" ~ the ONLY point there is that there's no reason the unvaxxed should take the jabs.
"It's an essential argument against Chinese virus vaxxes, not against the vaxxed." ~ I could not be MORE clear that the object of my argument is NOT against the vaxxed, because I say so explicitly!
"Who on the unvaxxed side has called for the vaxxed to be denied hospital access, to be force-locked-down, to be ostracized and shunned and prevented from exercising their civil rights?" ~ no one, but then you drag out the dishonest, "well, it's what you *meant*, we all know that", a dog-whistle argument.
I'm done discussing this with you, because by repeatedly insinuating to me things not even remotely close to what I'm saying, and your refusal/inability to quote anything incriminating and instead advancing your own self-serving inferences, you continue to discuss this in bad faith.
What I've said is demonstrably true, even if you refuse to follow your own argument and defense of blaming the vaxxed with any standard of rational consistency. You joined in to debate me on a direct response to somebody claiming it was the vaxxed that spread. You came to that person and that person's argument's defense. This is an inescapable fact if you just revisit how this started.
You: "The vaxx fanatics don't know it's their fault because they choose to only get their news from, apparently, the alphabet legacy media and Anthony Fauci who've lied to them almost from Day One.
You say they don't know it's there fault because they're misinformed in one breath and deny saying you even even implied it was there fault in another.
You then proceed to accuse me if accusing you of claiming you would deny the vaxxed health services. In fact, what I SAID was the beginning of that kind of justification is the blame game. Once you've identified the problem, laid the blame, it opens up the door to justifying all sorts of responses to deal with said problem.
I have not "insinuated" anything. I've carefully responded only to what you've actually done and said. Any other inferences you make from that are your own and not attributable to me.
The elitist speaks incoherently. The vaccines work, which is why the vaxxed can't go about their lives as long as there are unvaxxed out there.
The elitist has learned a talking point she thinks is a winner, because the elitist can't think for herself. But the elitist sure can feel and mindlessly spouting this kind of unscientific nonsense makes her feel seen and important.
Oddly it is the vaxxed who are driving transmission.
Well, since most adults are vaxxed and it's mostly adults who drive transmission and the vaxx doesn't prevent infection or transmission, it makes sense that the vaxxed are now the larger body of drivers of transmission. But we should avoid engaging in the same kind of blame game those clowns do.
None of us are responsible for the highly mutable airborne virus doing what it does, which is something everybody used to know and understand with other such viruses. We need to get back to that world and escape this clown world where we all view each other as deadly threats.
And no it *doesn't* make sense "that the vaxxed are now the larger body of drivers of transmission" IF as we were assured the vaxxes would stop/will stop the pandemic. Did the vaxxed in every prior seasonal flu season drive transmission of the flu?
These are very critical points that need to be made over and over and over.
To wit: if the vaxxed, regardless of how many there are, if the vaxxed are driving transmission, then WHY should we unvaxxed take the jabs?? If the vaxxed are driving transmission, then it's NOT a "vaccine".
No blame game at all. Just driving home all the relevant points that the LIVs and skulls full of mush don't seem capable of processing.
It makes perfect scientific sense given, as I said, the vaxx doesn't prevent infection or spread. You're making a different point entirely, the one that the vaxx has not worked as advertised. That is implicit in my my point.
It would be nice if the true vaxx believers wised up, but you're certainly not going to accomplish that by pointing the finger at them as the threat now.
Ok, I now do see how that point was implicit. My apologies for misunderstanding.
Nevertheless, pointing out to them that they're the primary source is not "pointing fingers". It's informing them of a fact that they likely are ignorant of.
It's also not the same blame game, because we're not trying to drive, or calling for driving, them out of society and denying them hospital access, etc., like they're calling for for US.
The "primary source" is the virus, not the people. That's the point we want to drive home, or at least I do. Stop the vilification of people, vaxxed an unvaxxed. If there are vaxxed hostile to the unvaxxed - and there are - we should avoid becoming like them and focus on getting them to place the blame on the virus, not people.
The time very well might come where the vaxxed are suffering greater health and immune system vulnerability to future variants than the unvaxxed because of their choices. I would hope the unvaxxed wouldn't seek to deny them hospital access and treatment, i.e. adopt the worst of what the Branch Covidians have to offer.
You are in essence right. Stating a fact, however, is not blaming. Your logic assumes there is no difference in ability to pass on the virus between the two groups, vaccinated and non-vaccinated, in which case the bigger group would be the biggest transmitter.
But that ignores the fact that supposedly the vaccinated group shouldnтАЩt be passing on the disease at all. (No vaccine is 100% but where effective vaccines are used, transmitters among the vaccinated are rare.)
So my point is why are the vaccinated responsible for more transmissions, their larger number aside? It is contrary to the theory of vaccination, the higher the number vaccinated, the lower overall the transmission rate. The unvaccinated should be very poor transmitters because most of those they meet will be vaccinated and immune: an unvaccinated person would only infect other unvaccinated persons who would be few and far between.
However we have a complete confounding of the whole principle of immunisation, because unvaccinated people are at risk from the vaccinated as well as other unvaccinated people, and vaccinated people are at risk of infection from each other.
Imagine if children at a school were vaccinated against Measles, except for one or two of them, then vaccinated children started getting Measles but the unvaccinated children did not and weтАЩre not infectious.
So back to, why is infection rate going up, not down, in a population 80%+ double dosed and 40% triple dosed?
The only conclusion is vaccination is not doing what it should, and it raises the question os there something about the vaccination that is making that group a breeding ground for new mutations resistant to the vaccines? That is what is odd.
WeтАЩve got to stop using the word тАШvaccineтАЩ!
Since they've officially changed the definition so that it can include these COVID "vaccines," I guess we can call it that, right?
This was the great bait and switch that the Branch Covidians fall for hook, line and sinker. They have memory holed that the "vaccines" were sold to the public politically as the modern medicine miracle that would end COVID and allow life to return to normal. Trump said it, Fauci said it and of course Uncle Joe said it. Those of us who paid attention knew very early on that these were in fact leaky vaccines that had no chance of actually ending the pandemic given the kind of virus we were dealing with but at that time were told by the Branch Covidians that we were lying in an attempt to steer people away from the "vaccines" and were censored or cancelled on social media for such "misinformation."
Fast forward to now and you'll notice that the Branch Covidians have been given their talking points intended to memory hole all that and promote a new narrative that these "vaccines" were never designed or intended to do anything other than mitigate the symptoms if/when you do get infected. The unexpected and "happy surprise," they'll say, was later finding out that the vaxx does appear to help prevent infection (and transmission) for a (short) period of time post vaxx. They are working exactly as intended and promoted, they'll tell you. And in the same breath they'll support vaxx mandates on the cognitive dissonant premise that the unvaxxed pose a threat to society because they can spread the virus. That last talking point never got updated from the early promise that the vaxxed were safe and no threat to spread and the unvaxxed were the ones risking dying.
It really is something to behold.
The objective evidence is that the least likely to be infected and spread are those who've recovered and have natural immunity. The newly vaxxed get infected and spread at lower rates than the unvaxxed but as the virus mutates away from the wild virus that the vaccines were developed for and their effectiveness wanes, the vaxxed become just as likely vectors as the unvaxxed. Maybe more so because the vaxxed have a false sense of security that they don't or won't act as a vector than the unvaxxed do. But that's beside the point.
The point is the vaccines nor being unvaxxed prevents infection and spread. Everybody, though least of which are the naturally immune, can be a vector and we should not be acting like the Branch Covidians by blaming the vaxxed for what the virus does. Not unless you are more interested in being like them than not being like them.
I see you are in the Straw Man business.
Either you're projecting or don't know what that actually is.
My own GP said that the vaccines were causing the variants...back in July...as he was convincing us to take it anyway...
People have no idea what a cult medicine is. A friend of mine said that I was going to be angry to hear that she was refusing the vaxx; she had read up on what disasters prior coronavirus vaccine attempts were.
She was startled when I told her that I agreed with her. I said, "I went to medical school, but I never drank the Kool-aid."
This two year episode has definitely opened my eyes to how completely captured the world of medicine and health has become by the government, big pharma and publish health bureaucracies. I will never just take my doctor's or the "expert's" word for anything again. I will certainly take their word under consideration, but I don't think these clowns at the top of the public health pyramid realize just how much damage they've done to the credibility of medicine and healthcare professionals going forward.
It's gong to be a long road to regain trust.....if ever.
It's not the vaccines per se, it's the mass vaccination campaign that puts evolutionary pressure on the virus that results in immune escape (variants). But it should be understood that these kind of highly mutable, airborne viruses always mutate away from any kind of mass immunity, even that coming from natural immunity. This is why we've never been able to eliminate cold and flu viruses and short of sterilizing vaccines that are actually safe and effective, we never will.
And we should not be afraid of a virus. The "virus" no matter what it is or isn't, is being used to manufacture a crisis that can then be capitalised on for an agenda. We should not forget that and then get caught up in the weeds of the narrative. I have had to question my entire worldview around vaccines and the medical corporate complex itself. when I questioned, I discovered I have probably been scammed my entire life around what health is.
Not sure I'd say we should not be afraid of it, but we should not overreact to it and we should put it's risks across various demographics in proper perspective. From very early on it seemed obvious to me that The Great Barrington Declaration folks had it mostly right. Largely what Sweden did after unfortunately failing initially to protect the most vulnerable nursing home residents.
A targeted protection approach, where the most vulnerable assume the greatest precautions while the rest of the population, the vast, vast majority, go on living their lives as normal to achieve natural herd immunity, which then protects the most vulnerable. The vaccines coming along could have/should have been used as a tool for protecting that targeted high risk protection. Once we knew they were leaky vaccines, which was known almost immediately, that was their only truly valid use.
But the government "experts" took us down a different, clown world path, and they can't afford the risk to their reputations that an honest re-evaluation and course correction would entail. So, they become the hammer and when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. At some point, you hope they find and take the offramp. I'm personally hoping Omicron is that opportunity for them to get out of this without admitting they got it all wrong.
again, humans have evolved with viruses. They are within us all and everywhere. But 100 years of germ theory has engrained us with world view based on fear. Now, it's only been since the "pandemic", which I realized was a scam and a sham early on that is being used to install totalitarianism, that I began to question everything I believed about health and medicine. I suggest everyone do the same. Question everything...EVERYTHING about your own BELIEFS and instead of believing, think and learn and stop being afraid. Even if covid was everything the elite tell us it is, there are fates worse than death....and hiding in fear is certainly worse. They want you to trade your life for a virtual reality on Amazon. Remember that old blues song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxgY9eEFiYM
Yes, all that is good perspective. So is knowing who the virus impacts the most and who it doesn't. Having the knowledge is good and can save or extend lives. Using that knowledge to instill fear and manipulate for political or personal gain obviously not good.
Anybody who has followed all this while applying healthy skepticism and critical thinking has no choice but to question things they thought they knew before this all went down. But it's also important not to throw out the babies with the bathwater. Yes, we've evolved with and lived with pathogens our whole lives. Most of them are necessary components to developing robust, healthy immune systems as we grow and age. But some should be avoided when or where possible and the immune and protective solution for some isn't the same for others. No one size fits all and certainly nobody should be forced into medical interventions they do not want or need.
Germ theory versus terrain theory...my inner jury is still out on the two theories. But covid is no worse than the flu..and that is according to the CDC's own website if you read between the lines, which says that "covid is respiratory virus caused by a "novel" coronavirus and is spread through droplets. The majority who actually become symptomatic (many never do) develop very mild to moderate illness. A few people develop severe illness and some even die." If we were not told 24/7 by the media and because people have been forced to social distance and wear masks so that it's in our faces wherever we go, we would not know there was a pandemic...that's because there isn;t ...except maybe now that they have vaccinated. A pandemic of the vaccinated because of the injection of the spike protein...it seems the vaxxes may have caused a lot of illness.
This is where generalities aren't that helpful because we have the data and we know now (have for a long time actually) that it depends on who you are as to whether or not COVID is better or worse than the flu. Overall, COVID does appear to be more lethal than the flu, but it's hard to know exactly how much more lethal because it is tracked and coded in ways the flu never has been. But we can look at excess mortality and we can subtract what appears to be excess deaths caused by the response to COVID (lockdowns, etc.) and still find the number pretty easily exceeds our worst flu years, such as 2017.
We know that COVID is significantly more lethal than the flu to the old, the morbidly obese and those with existing immunocompromised conditions. Its 2-3 times more lethal than the flu to those demographics. For the middle age and healthy, it's roughly the same as the flu. For the young and healthy is significantly less lethal than the flu.
We should be able to shape responses around these known facts, but that would mean allowing the vast majority of people to go on with their lives be careful around the high risk groups. Instead, the response is to force the young and healthy to shoulder the burden so that the old, the fat and the sick can feel safer even if these interventions don't actually make them safer.
Not sure where you get these "statistics" such as "most adults are vaxxed." Are you listening to your TV propaganda? I think there are way more unvaccinated adults than you realize in the USA, at least. Not sure about other countries. I agree that we need to stop looking at each other as walking vectors of disease. That viewpoint is part of the propaganda that has enabled the scamdemic to successfully lockdown the world, destroy economies and jeopardize the health of millions by halting diagnostic tests and coercing people into doing unheathy things like social distancing and washing hands over and over and wearing masks and living in fear and anxiety. I say scamdemic because the presence of a virus does not a pandemic make. If we were not told every day 24/7 there was a pandemic and if we were not made to act like there was a pandemic so the fear of the virus is on everyone's mind every second, we would not know there was a pandemic...because there isn't. The WHO conveniently changed the criteria for a pandemic prior to 2020 so that this could plans could be implemented in accordance with their own guidelines. Part of any coup is divide and conquer and the virus is being used to divide us and look at each other as possible enemies. Insidious! You called it!
The data on adult vaxx rates and percentages in both the US, every US state, and countries around the world, is widely available info. You subscribe to el gato malo's substack where he posts these figures all the time, including studies such as the Harvard one that concluded "Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States." Do you think that's propaganda? Do you think el gato malo is propaganda?
Seems you are unaware how propaganda works to support a narrative.
Seems you are incapable of finding the truth between two narratives. Not thinking for yourself, just choosing which side does your thinking for you.
You seem to be describing yourself, caught between left and right, two narratives, not realizing that NARRATIVES themselves are propaganda...both or all of them. Based on my thinking and what I have learned and continue in my 71 years on this planet I choose not to go anywhere near covid vaccines or flu shots for that matter. You can make your own choices. I do not need a duopoly of narratives to think for me.
Wendy, I don't care what choice you make. That's your business, not mine. You do you. I'm not relying in the least on on "narratives," I'm relying on data, reason and evidence. The same things gato, Berenson, etc. are relying on. Of course you don't need a "duopoly" of narratives because you've picked a single one and no amount or data, reason or evidence can ever dislodge you from it. Just the opposite end of the coin you criticize, who want to use one size fits all solutions and dismiss any evidence they don't want to hear. Fine with me. Again, you do you.
Propaganda is what is being put out by Big Pharma, the CDC, the WHO and parroted by the mainstream media. Independent journalism and bloggers like Bad Catt is not propaganda, it is actual journalism, something the mainstream media disposed of long ago. That is not to say that independent journalists cannot inject their personal bias or beliefs that coincide with the propaganda into their reporting or share their personal perspective in op eds. I haven't chosen any narrative, Hornit, that was my point. For every study you rely on to bolster ("prove") the narrative you believe in, there are contrarian studies out there...unfortunately most contrarians to the covid narrative(s) are being censored, throttled and maligned. From the very beginning of this scamdemic there are steps that I can detail to show how the entire pandemic has been manufactured, beginning with the fake pictures out of China of people falling over in the street to the WHO and CDC changing the definition of a pandemic to the fact that the virus was not properly isolated and then shown to cause cell lysis in humans to the use of PCR tests (which were not designed to nor can according to the tests creator) detect infectivity with any virus, not to mention again that covid-19 has never properly been islolated/purified (sequence was created on computer and possibly in laboratory)... to the way deaths have and are being falsely attributed to covid by declarinig anyone who has tested positive and dies (no matter if they were in an accident on freeway or got shot in a robbery) a covid death. And let's not discount the media that ramps up the fearful narrative 24/7 and every day informs us of every single one of those deaths attributed to covid, every hospitalization of a person who has tested positive, as well as the mask and social distancing mandates, isolating hospitalized patients from their families, the use of a only one medicine for treatment in hospitals and ventilation which has proved to cause death in more than 80 percent of patients who were put on the device. Then we have the ever changing vaccine lies and denials and now the variant lies. The PCR test cannot detect variants (let alone infections). The only way variant can be identified is with genetic sequencing. There are few labs in the USA doing that sequencing, so when you hear that stories about how fast Omicron for instance is spreading it is a fallacy....nothing but a trumped up narrative. And to take this full circle, let's go back to the CDC's own website where they write "COVID-19 is a disease caused by a virus called SARS-CoV-2. Most people with COVID-19 have mild symptoms, but some people can become severely ill. Although most people with COVID-19 get better within weeks of illness, some people experience post-COVID conditions." So for a virus that causes in most people mild illness why have they locked down the world? It is obviously not because of a mild virus that is only dangerous to a small percentage of people, just like the flu or pneumonia or even the common coronavirus cold. The rest is propaganda and all the steps I listed previously have been used to manufacture a scamdemic that is making billionaires and trillionaires out of a few people at the top and being used to push the Great Restting of the blobal capitalist system, which the WEC now claims is needed to balance inequality (since when does GloboCap care about equality? Now I am up to go over each of those steps that the powers that should not be have taken in its path to whatever their final solution may be. Study by study...if you wish.
Wendy, I don't care if you believe COVID is real or not either. Or whether they can sequence the genome to know the variant quickly or not. All that really matters is that SOMETHING is obviously landing people in the hospitals and resulting in excess deaths all around the world. And has been for a years or so before the vaccines were available. And we can look at the data to know who and what are most vulnerable (at risk) to that something and who aren't and we can combine that with a lot of other objective evidence. It doesn't have to come from big pharma, though much of the data that comes from big pharma does not support their narrative, or the left wing sources and we can know some things, which is what I'm doing and people like gato are doing. You appear to think all there is to know is that it's all conspiratorial BS and that's the end of the story. Fine. Good luck to you.
You do need to read up on contagious vaccines. Stuff is being transmitted, and definitely goes one way. Unless you realize it, you live in a fantasy land.
There is zero evidence that these vaccines are "contagious vaccines." This is the kind of fantasyland conspiracy theory nonsense that hurts the cause.
Thx for confirmation. Sorry to hear you have the cause, and hope you recover soon.
I do what I can for those immune to reason and evidence.
It's not a blame game. It's an essential argument against Chinese virus vaxxes, not against the vaxxed.
It absolutely is a blame game if or when you start pointing the finger at the vaxxed (or unvaxxed) as the problem and reason the virus continues to spread rather than disappear.
You want to behave like them, just taking the opposite side of the clown world coin, that's on you. You'll be about as effective at convincing them it's their fault as they've been convincing you. Good luck with that.
You wrote "But we should avoid engaging in the same kind of blame game those clowns do."
Who on the unvaxxed side has called for the vaxxed to be denied hospital access, to be force-locked-down, to be ostracized and shunned and prevented from exercising their civil rights?
We are in no way "engaging in the same kind of blame game".
Blaming the vaxxed for the spread is where that all begins. Blaming the unvaxxed for that is where the rest of the insanity that has followed, things like advocating the denial of health services, came from. Once you've identified one side or the other as the problem, all sorts of whacky justifications for dealing with said problem follow.
The problem is with the scamdemic itself...as I detailed earlier in a reply to another of you
r comments to me.
I don't GAS about "convincing them it's their fault," I only GAS about calling a spade a spade.
And the reason they haven't convinced me that it's my fault is because it's NOT my fault. That is not opinion; it's fact, as bad cattitude and Jeff Childers and Alex Berenson have ably and amply demonstrated.
The vaxx fanatics don't know it's their fault because they choose to only get their news from, apparently, the alphabet legacy media and Anthony Fauci who've lied to them almost from Day One. That's their choice, to remain ignorant. And that choice precludes ANYone from getting through to them, no matter how nicely you point out to them that they're ignoramuses with SFB.
Again, it's not the vaxxed fault. It's not the unvaxxed fault. It is nobody's fault that the virus does what it does.
You are attempting to argue that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, but Berenson and others who've done yeoman's work have never suggested that we should adopt the tactics of the vaccine fanatics to convince them to stand down.
Jesus, where have I even suggested "that we should adopt the tactics of the vaccine fanatics to convince them to stand down"??
Good for the gander? Never, nowhere, have I ever argued for denying hospital access to the sick vaxxed, or for running them out of town on a rail, or for shunning them from society, etc.. FFS, my own wife, stepd, daughter, SIL, and sibs are vaxxed.
You seem fixated on advancing false premises or straw men, whatever. Putting words in my mouth that I never even came close to saying.
You have been defending the idea that vaxxed should be blamed for transmission. That is clearly a 'suggestion' that adopting the tactics of the vaccine fanatics is ok.
If you are now walking that back and saying you do not defend that position, then just say so instead of skating around logical conclusions to your prior arguments.
That's not even close to true. And I don't need to walk back anything, because your claim that I favor adopting their tactics is a dishonest calumny not supportable in the least. And we know this, because when I asked "where have I even suggested..." you didn't quote anything, and instead you pulled out the "that is clearly a 'suggestion'..." dog whistle implication.
Here are my comments:
"These are very critical points that need to be made over and over and over.
To wit: if the vaxxed, regardless of how many there are, if the vaxxed are driving transmission, then WHY should we unvaxxed take the jabs??" ~ the ONLY point there is that there's no reason the unvaxxed should take the jabs.
"It's an essential argument against Chinese virus vaxxes, not against the vaxxed." ~ I could not be MORE clear that the object of my argument is NOT against the vaxxed, because I say so explicitly!
"Who on the unvaxxed side has called for the vaxxed to be denied hospital access, to be force-locked-down, to be ostracized and shunned and prevented from exercising their civil rights?" ~ no one, but then you drag out the dishonest, "well, it's what you *meant*, we all know that", a dog-whistle argument.
I'm done discussing this with you, because by repeatedly insinuating to me things not even remotely close to what I'm saying, and your refusal/inability to quote anything incriminating and instead advancing your own self-serving inferences, you continue to discuss this in bad faith.
What I've said is demonstrably true, even if you refuse to follow your own argument and defense of blaming the vaxxed with any standard of rational consistency. You joined in to debate me on a direct response to somebody claiming it was the vaxxed that spread. You came to that person and that person's argument's defense. This is an inescapable fact if you just revisit how this started.
You: "The vaxx fanatics don't know it's their fault because they choose to only get their news from, apparently, the alphabet legacy media and Anthony Fauci who've lied to them almost from Day One.
You say they don't know it's there fault because they're misinformed in one breath and deny saying you even even implied it was there fault in another.
You then proceed to accuse me if accusing you of claiming you would deny the vaxxed health services. In fact, what I SAID was the beginning of that kind of justification is the blame game. Once you've identified the problem, laid the blame, it opens up the door to justifying all sorts of responses to deal with said problem.
I have not "insinuated" anything. I've carefully responded only to what you've actually done and said. Any other inferences you make from that are your own and not attributable to me.
Yeah, what's the line from HMS Pinafore?
"I never thought of thinking for myself at all. I thought so little, they rewarded me by making me the Ruler of..." all you unvaxxed heathen.