Parents were the first problem. Narcissistic Uber liberals (you know they are all Karens) helicopter parenting and giving zero consequences, chores, or punishments. It’s been happening in an ever widening circle since my kids were young (mine are 27-36 in ages now).
When my “middlest” as she calls herself was 15, I told her that if she lied to me again I’d take her off the basketball team. She did and I did. And not only did I take her off the team I told the coaches WHY I took her off the team. (Matter of factly, and said she’d try out again the next year, not as gossip!) Most of the other parents couldn’t believe I’d followed through with it and said, “I wouldn’t have been able to do it.” I said, “So she’s in trouble for LYING, I told her upfront what the consequence would be, and she made a choice. I would have been LYING if I didn’t follow through!” That seemed pretty obvious to me but they mostly looked at me blankly. Anyway, she is , at 31, the most honest (and kind) person I know.
My job as a mama was to raise productive members of society who could lead their own fulfilling lives, NOT to be their friend. Sure, we’re friends now, but at 10 or 13 or 16? Um no.
This essay on "shame" is somewhat similar to discussions I've had on "tolerance."
While too little shame is bad for a society and individuals, too much tolerance has the same sort of effect: it's bad. That's how we get to being "tolerant" of pedophiles and murderers and so on.
It is shameful for students to refuse to hear alternative views on controversial topics unless they are afforded mental health services after hearing those views. It is more shameful for universities to indulge them. If the schools told the students to toughen up an that they do not need and will not receive any mental health services for hearing an argument that they in all likelihood fear is right, they will stop asking for it.
Why did some ancient and very advanced civilizations suddenly vanish from the face of the earth, leaving behind only their great structures and no trace of the inhabitants. I believe we are on the verge of discovering where they went :)
The five emotions are joy, anger, fear, sadness, and disgust. The last one, disgust, when turned inwards, is shame. Every single one has a useful, and a destructive, capacity. Anger indicates that we need to alter something. Fear indicates that we are confronting an unknown. Sadness tells us we must grieve. And disgust/shame tells us what to avoid/not repeat. Without an internal impetus to improve, we end up in a negative ratchet of self-destruction. With too much self-abnegation, same issue. The trick with shame is to acknowledge it and allow it without letting it drive the bus, just as with the other emotions.
Very true, but ... Big Brother likes buttercups. Helpless, fragile adult-toddlers happily exchange freedom for promises of security. They want Big Brother to watch them, so they can feel secure. Shame makes them feel vulnerable and afraid. Big Brother makes them feel warm and safe. And when powerful pathocrats have an incentive to incentivize buttercuppery, we will get more buttercups.
It used to be called tough love. It's sorely lacking as a cultural norm today. We're being subsumed by permissiveness and submissiveness. Good times, soft men, hard times...
I dream to one day live in a world where EVERYONE calls EVERYONE out on their BULLSHIT. I tell my friends and family to do this to me. Call me out! Please! Just look me in the eyes and tell me the truth, you won't hurt my feelings. We're all supposed to be adults here.
All societies that exist for more than a few months are organic, created from the inside out, not imposed from the outside in. A sense of shame is an integral part of the survival mechanisms that societies have developed over tens of thousands of years. They keep the "woke" minorities, the disoriented individuals, the mentally ill from disrupting the lives of the members of the society, destroying peace and order. In the US, we have devolved into a society where if one person screams and cries about damn near anything, that which the buttercup decries will be banned, even if everyone else likes/needs/wants that thing. A lot of the growing tyranny started with crocodile tears for the allergic, peanuts and perfume are good examples. The "environmental" movement took advantage, too, of peoples concern for others and the world we live in to shamelessly destroy individual rights to life, liberty, and happiness. The left is totally shameless when it comes to taking these rights, by lying, obfuscation, deception or whatever sociopathic tactic they feel will work. Fight back. Be proud of who and what we were and are and will become. What if they gave a protest and no one came? Meowdios, MFs.
Agree 100%. It’s no fun, but anthropologists have described shame as one of the fundamental elements helping development of human civilization. Now instead we encourage crybullies “to be proudly performative of that which should be shameful” as you say. (And on the flip side, as Jordan Peterson observed, “Pride used to be considered a Sin.” ) Now there is no need for government officials to fear or be ashamed because the media provides insta-indulgences.
Spot on. There is a modern western culture, propagated by the parents and other supposed adults, that rewards ill behavior. The whining and crying of the little bullies is nakedly performative and indulged by people who should know better. It does these kids no good. We now have 2 full generations of such creatures and many adult-aged children who we have set loose upon the real world. As times get hard -- and they will -- there shall be a figurative culling of these folks and these characteristics. It shan't be pretty.
Ten years ago, I attended a public forum (in-person) at our local university campus in which it was discussed whether or not the campus should have dedicated "safe spaces." One student who was in favor of the idea said that people who didn't think they were necessary could just ignore them and not use them. She gave the example of herself not using the recreation center because she didn't work out. I countered with the idea that it was different because, although she was paying for something on campus that she didn't make use of, it wasn't something that she had a moral objection to. (EDIT: If I recall correctly, the words I used were "philosophical opposition".)
She was 100% unable to comprehend my position. She could not understand my objection to the campus devoting resources to safe spaces because I viewed them as antithetical to the idea of an institution of learning.
As much as I like Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter was probably one of the most destructive books ever written because of this exact point. The shame single mothers felt in those days was in many ways terribly unfair… but there were resultantly zero children having the trauma of being raised without a dad. Now that scarlet letter shame is long gone, and so is the prospect of a happy, well-adjusted childhood for ever increasing millions of innocent little boys and girls…
Parents were the first problem. Narcissistic Uber liberals (you know they are all Karens) helicopter parenting and giving zero consequences, chores, or punishments. It’s been happening in an ever widening circle since my kids were young (mine are 27-36 in ages now).
When my “middlest” as she calls herself was 15, I told her that if she lied to me again I’d take her off the basketball team. She did and I did. And not only did I take her off the team I told the coaches WHY I took her off the team. (Matter of factly, and said she’d try out again the next year, not as gossip!) Most of the other parents couldn’t believe I’d followed through with it and said, “I wouldn’t have been able to do it.” I said, “So she’s in trouble for LYING, I told her upfront what the consequence would be, and she made a choice. I would have been LYING if I didn’t follow through!” That seemed pretty obvious to me but they mostly looked at me blankly. Anyway, she is , at 31, the most honest (and kind) person I know.
My job as a mama was to raise productive members of society who could lead their own fulfilling lives, NOT to be their friend. Sure, we’re friends now, but at 10 or 13 or 16? Um no.
This essay on "shame" is somewhat similar to discussions I've had on "tolerance."
While too little shame is bad for a society and individuals, too much tolerance has the same sort of effect: it's bad. That's how we get to being "tolerant" of pedophiles and murderers and so on.
It is shameful for students to refuse to hear alternative views on controversial topics unless they are afforded mental health services after hearing those views. It is more shameful for universities to indulge them. If the schools told the students to toughen up an that they do not need and will not receive any mental health services for hearing an argument that they in all likelihood fear is right, they will stop asking for it.
Why did some ancient and very advanced civilizations suddenly vanish from the face of the earth, leaving behind only their great structures and no trace of the inhabitants. I believe we are on the verge of discovering where they went :)
The five emotions are joy, anger, fear, sadness, and disgust. The last one, disgust, when turned inwards, is shame. Every single one has a useful, and a destructive, capacity. Anger indicates that we need to alter something. Fear indicates that we are confronting an unknown. Sadness tells us we must grieve. And disgust/shame tells us what to avoid/not repeat. Without an internal impetus to improve, we end up in a negative ratchet of self-destruction. With too much self-abnegation, same issue. The trick with shame is to acknowledge it and allow it without letting it drive the bus, just as with the other emotions.
Very true, but ... Big Brother likes buttercups. Helpless, fragile adult-toddlers happily exchange freedom for promises of security. They want Big Brother to watch them, so they can feel secure. Shame makes them feel vulnerable and afraid. Big Brother makes them feel warm and safe. And when powerful pathocrats have an incentive to incentivize buttercuppery, we will get more buttercups.
It used to be called tough love. It's sorely lacking as a cultural norm today. We're being subsumed by permissiveness and submissiveness. Good times, soft men, hard times...
“Were they ashamed when they committed abomination? No, they were not at all ashamed; they did not know how to blush.” Jeremiah 6:15a
I dream to one day live in a world where EVERYONE calls EVERYONE out on their BULLSHIT. I tell my friends and family to do this to me. Call me out! Please! Just look me in the eyes and tell me the truth, you won't hurt my feelings. We're all supposed to be adults here.
All societies that exist for more than a few months are organic, created from the inside out, not imposed from the outside in. A sense of shame is an integral part of the survival mechanisms that societies have developed over tens of thousands of years. They keep the "woke" minorities, the disoriented individuals, the mentally ill from disrupting the lives of the members of the society, destroying peace and order. In the US, we have devolved into a society where if one person screams and cries about damn near anything, that which the buttercup decries will be banned, even if everyone else likes/needs/wants that thing. A lot of the growing tyranny started with crocodile tears for the allergic, peanuts and perfume are good examples. The "environmental" movement took advantage, too, of peoples concern for others and the world we live in to shamelessly destroy individual rights to life, liberty, and happiness. The left is totally shameless when it comes to taking these rights, by lying, obfuscation, deception or whatever sociopathic tactic they feel will work. Fight back. Be proud of who and what we were and are and will become. What if they gave a protest and no one came? Meowdios, MFs.
I recall a phrase from when I started work at the best place I've worked.
It was "sharpen the fuck up", said loudly on occasion when an error was made.
And you did.
High standards are not a bad thing.
Agree 100%. It’s no fun, but anthropologists have described shame as one of the fundamental elements helping development of human civilization. Now instead we encourage crybullies “to be proudly performative of that which should be shameful” as you say. (And on the flip side, as Jordan Peterson observed, “Pride used to be considered a Sin.” ) Now there is no need for government officials to fear or be ashamed because the media provides insta-indulgences.
Spot on. There is a modern western culture, propagated by the parents and other supposed adults, that rewards ill behavior. The whining and crying of the little bullies is nakedly performative and indulged by people who should know better. It does these kids no good. We now have 2 full generations of such creatures and many adult-aged children who we have set loose upon the real world. As times get hard -- and they will -- there shall be a figurative culling of these folks and these characteristics. It shan't be pretty.
Ten years ago, I attended a public forum (in-person) at our local university campus in which it was discussed whether or not the campus should have dedicated "safe spaces." One student who was in favor of the idea said that people who didn't think they were necessary could just ignore them and not use them. She gave the example of herself not using the recreation center because she didn't work out. I countered with the idea that it was different because, although she was paying for something on campus that she didn't make use of, it wasn't something that she had a moral objection to. (EDIT: If I recall correctly, the words I used were "philosophical opposition".)
She was 100% unable to comprehend my position. She could not understand my objection to the campus devoting resources to safe spaces because I viewed them as antithetical to the idea of an institution of learning.
In 2023 Newspeak "free speech" is defined as traumatic verbal violence.
As much as I like Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter was probably one of the most destructive books ever written because of this exact point. The shame single mothers felt in those days was in many ways terribly unfair… but there were resultantly zero children having the trauma of being raised without a dad. Now that scarlet letter shame is long gone, and so is the prospect of a happy, well-adjusted childhood for ever increasing millions of innocent little boys and girls…