Parents were the first problem. Narcissistic Uber liberals (you know they are all Karens) helicopter parenting and giving zero consequences, chores, or punishments. It’s been happening in an ever widening circle since my kids were young (mine are 27-36 in ages now).
When my “middlest” as she calls herself was 15, I told her that if she lied to me again I’d take her off the basketball team. She did and I did. And not only did I take her off the team I told the coaches WHY I took her off the team. (Matter of factly, and said she’d try out again the next year, not as gossip!) Most of the other parents couldn’t believe I’d followed through with it and said, “I wouldn’t have been able to do it.” I said, “So she’s in trouble for LYING, I told her upfront what the consequence would be, and she made a choice. I would have been LYING if I didn’t follow through!” That seemed pretty obvious to me but they mostly looked at me blankly. Anyway, she is , at 31, the most honest (and kind) person I know.
My job as a mama was to raise productive members of society who could lead their own fulfilling lives, NOT to be their friend. Sure, we’re friends now, but at 10 or 13 or 16? Um no.
Healthy shame is the only way for a person to understand that the only thing worse than shame is being a coward.
It empowers a person to recognize that being shamed, for example with covid, is a joyless victory over cowards, but at the same time gives them the wherewithal to understand character is revealed in the crucible.
And that not compromising character is a barrier to the seduction of cowardness.
For eons, shame has been used to teach people not to engage in destructive behavior towards others or themselves.
As an extremely effective societal limiting device it it is an important aspect of civilization.
My first run in with shame was back in the late Pleistocene when I was began going through puberty. I had a crush on a girl, and instead of having the stones to ask her out, I lied to my friends about kissing her.
About a week later she and several of her friends confronted me, in front of my friends, about my bullshit and deservedly skewered me.
You can be sure that I never did that again, and an important larger lesson was also learned. Permanently.
We need more of this today, because as gato says, we bid farewell to Goldilocks and very much need to reacquainted.
I had to take several lessons before it got through my thick skull.
My first lesson, and its still as real as my last meal, was being 4 and wanting this little horse figurine at k-mart and not wanting to deal with haggling with my mom. So while she went to another aisle I put it in my pocket. My mother knew this and waited until we were being checked out and said in front of everyone "Ryan what is in your pocket?" I froze in complete shame. And then for effect, she took it out of my pocket, put it in my hand and told me to follow the "manager" back to the aisle to put the horse back in the right spot on the shelf.
The walk of shame. Agony.
I "cheated" a few times after experiencing this, but it was half-hearted and I learned my lesson
I commend you. You did the right thing. Unfortunately, my husband and I disagreed on how to raise kids, he undermined me every chance he got. No, you don’t have to do the chores your mother assigned, yes, you can play baseball even though you didn’t go to school, etc. I stayed married to him as I had 5 kids and leaving would have put me at work and having someone else raise my kids. Half of my kids are a mess. Sad.
Nice, everytime my 16year old complains "you're being mean", or "thats not fair" I respond with "my job is to love you and make you a productive member of society, not be your friend and let you do whatever you want"
Good job! An x-friend used to tell me, when her daughter was young, how kind, loving, and caring she was. Yet, everything else she ever told me about her, said the exact opposite. Now, that the daughter is 43, she whines and cries about how horribe she is, and that she's a narcissist. IMO, she always was, albeit a little funnier and friendlier when young, but exactly as she was raised.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🎩🎩🎩🎩🎩🎩 Bravo Jennings!!!! And THAT folks, is actual parenting. Guiding a learning human to be the best human they can be, so that we have a society full of fully formed and actually functioning, individuals. We seem to be killing society with "kindness", and I shudder to think of the future, because traditionally when you create a societal victim mentality (read, equitable or "fair"), it usually gets taken advantage of by others that are tough, resilient and less "kind", because they are prepared mentally and emotionally to make hard decisions in moments of crisis. Each individual needs to not be looking outwards for help, but looking inwards to find the strength, resilient, and power within, so they DONT get abused. That is what a parents job is to teach their children. A thankless task, but so valuable.🤗 well done Jennings, you Aced the exam😉
When my son was in middle school, his grades were not where they should have been since he had been goofing off. I told him way before that that was not acceptable and he could not go on the school's voluntary ski trip if he didn't bring them up. Well, he didn't and I didn't let him go on the trip. The head of school actually fussed at me about it and I held my ground. Not her kid. He did a few other dumb things along the way but has turned out quite responsible and focused at almost 34.
That's a good one! We homeschooled and when the kids were high school age they just got their "this is what's expected in order for you to be done with the year" list and they had to do it themselves. (Obviously they could get help, but navigating the schedule was up to them.) Both the girls had one summer break that was only 2 weeks long because they procrastinated. The youngest always finished early, one year in March, because he said, "I saw them not get a summer break and I wasn't going to do that!" haha smart kid. And the girls only did it once each, so they learned, too!
>> "My job ... was to raise productive members of society ... "
Why do people think this is a GOOD thing?
Encouraging offspring to be well-behaved battery-livestock for the tax farm seems like the diametric opposite of the best thing for the offspring.
A better objective might be to raise GOOD PEOPLE, or HAPPY PEOPLE, or HONEST PEOPLE. There's absolutely no evidence that being good, happy or honest results in "productivity" for the tax-farmers - and a reasonable aount of evidence that the opposite is true.
I have no dog in this fight: I loathe children, and have done since I was a child myself. They're stupid and weak and parasitic, and the VAST majority of them grow up to be imbeciles (my definition of 'imbecile' is somewhat nuanced: "less than 2sd above the cognitive median").
I wouldn't have an offspring as a gift, and I'm glad that there will be fewer of them 'going forward' - one of the few small upsides to the recent Pfizer nonsense.
Smart women are on the same page as me: they don't see it as their duty to be brood sows for the Tax Machine; they would rather go skiing.
A very large proportion of breeders can't adequately train a domestic dog - a process that can be successfully completed in two weeks.
And of course let's not forget that the Modern Mother is the most jab-happy numbskull this side of Rochelle Walenskyi, and the most craven follower of "authority figures" (like Fauci), and the entire market for "dream catchers", crystals and "The Secret".
Obviously MY mother is different: the proof is in the jabbing.
None of us 5 were jabbed with anything as infants (except a pin-prick for a blood test). We were all born prior to the "SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" childhood jab schedule, which is now approaching 60 MANDATORY jabs per infant - compliance with which is absolutely shameful.
"My job as a mama was to raise productive members of society who could lead their own fulfilling lives" And there it is in a nutshell. SImple. Not easy, but simple.
I also think that was fairl parenting though don’t think your action was “shaming”. She would feel guilty, she would feel punished, but she wouldn’t feel unloved. Shamers are more typically an eruption of hate.
This essay on "shame" is somewhat similar to discussions I've had on "tolerance."
While too little shame is bad for a society and individuals, too much tolerance has the same sort of effect: it's bad. That's how we get to being "tolerant" of pedophiles and murderers and so on.
Walter Berns was a preeminent legal philosopher, professor of law and scholar. He explored the increasing application of The Science (TM) to the law beginning in the mid-1950's and the threat it posed to free people. The Science (TM) being behavioral science, "nudge" as Cass Sunstein wrote about. Mind-farkery to make free people behave like authorities want them to. Manipulation, coercion, deception, the science of brainwashing. I.e. The Science (TM) of the pandemic, masks, social distancing, etc, including shaming. He warned us in many papers of the dangers in just "following The Science."
He wasn't opposed to the concept of shame in general. The shame as he understood it came from breaking with God, his word as given to us through the Ten Commandments and scripture. Saying that in the absence of God and the role of shame in society people would need to be ruled. Authoritarianism. Repressive.
So basically saying we could either follow God's laws or man's laws. And offering that God's laws are much more liberated and provide us the freedom that God intends for us than man's laws ever could or would. That God is a much more benevolent ruler than man could or would ever be. His 2015 obituary:
Walter Berns, political scientist and philosopher, dies at 95
"Dr. Berns’s career, “reflects the classical view that democracy depends on the character of the citizens, so their opinions and beliefs, their personal habits and degree of self-discipline — in a word, their virtues — will matter to the prospects of democratic government.”
Dr. Berns argued against unbounded individual rights and for restrictions on pornography, which he believed eroded self-restraint.
“Those who are without shame,” he remarked, “will be unruly and unrulable; having lost the ability to restrain themselves by obeying the rules they collectively give themselves, they will have to be ruled by others.”"
Side Note: Cass Sunstein is a pivotal player in the transformation to a Behavioral Science-based law and society. He served in key roles under Obama reorienting the federal government to Nudge theory, has many proteges in powerful places. Including his wife, Samantha Power at USAID overthrowing governments she doesn't like, Jessica Hertz leading censorship and propaganda efforts in Big Tech again after a few years standing up the Biden administration, Maya Shankar (who's also connected to Chelsea Clinton and Frank Luntz) leading Big Tech global censorship at Google, at the Council on Foreign Relations, developing the mind-farkery plans at the UN/WEF to make us happy owning nothing and eating bugs. And many others. Sunstein also helped set up the UK's mirror programs with his coauthor Richard Thaler, the SAGE MINDSPACE nudge program. Today Sunstein teaches at Harvard Law School how to dismantle the Constitution using linguistic tricks to apply behaviorism inside the plain language of our rights, redefining words like freedom to mean slavery. Orwellianism.
And when we get into issues of God's law which informs Natural Law as to morality to a larger degree than Man's law, i.e. Positive Law which is law because man says so, if even it is immoral, amoral, we begin to understand that there was a lot more meaning behind this clip from Clarence Thomas' confirmation hearing when Sen. Joe Biden hectored Thomas over his previous writings and comments about the role of natural law in American jurisprudence history...that changed in the middle of the 20th century to positive law theory around the same time that Berns was cautioning about applying a scientific approach to law, a behavioral science approach to law. It is all interconnected:
Also related....Courtesy vs Respect. Everyone says you have to respect my choices. No. I will treat everyone with Courtesy by default, but Respect is earned.
It is shameful for students to refuse to hear alternative views on controversial topics unless they are afforded mental health services after hearing those views. It is more shameful for universities to indulge them. If the schools told the students to toughen up an that they do not need and will not receive any mental health services for hearing an argument that they in all likelihood fear is right, they will stop asking for it.
My sister is 50. Vermont “educated”. We can’t discuss anything controversial because it “would be too emotional”. She’s a science teacher who STILL believes every Covid lie. We may be doomed.
My sister is 37 and is the same way. She doesn’t want to talk about anything too deep because she feels like it damages our relationship. Mostly because I woke up five years ago and she’s still fast asleep. But the fact that she can’t handle a conversation is very concerning to me.
Yes. Plus the sneer and the look that everything smells to them is actually quite amusing. Whenever anyone is condescending to me and sticking his/her nose in the air I just tell them that what they are smelling is their own sulphur. They usually get quite upset at that remark. Go figure.
There are many, many people who can't handle a conversation any more deep than the weather, and what's on tv. My ex is that way. A conversation to him is an interrogation. He will not answer questions and told me that his new girlfriend knows better than to ask him questions beyond the banal and shallow. That is just narcissism. Narcs hide their souls and don't want their worlds rattled by deep thoughts.
I found out the hard way that teachers are among the worst believers. Several otherwise great people seem to believe every lie possible about the scamdemic.
yep. Just like many doctors are totally indoctrinated in medical schools subsidized by bigharma. Very little people are able to think for themselves anymore, or discern between what could be true and what most certainly is a lie.
Yes. She is too despondent to discuss any Covid related matters with me, with students committing suicide and aggressive cancers exploding all around her. Ummm, that’s what I’ve been trying to warn you about sis. But since her opinions are “based on science”, we have nothing to discuss. She turned to Sarah Silverman after the 2016 election. I suggested Thomas Sowell and she looked at me like I had 3 heads…..
I’ve seen the look! I’m now growing a third head to validate it. No, what’s been validated is victimhood. Absent the boldness to shame, we create victims and it’s nothing but lying. Safe spaces and equity are lies created by educational institutions. A few years back they got rid of insane asylums (I remember the names) and now they’re called “universities” and “public schools.” Now, choice words from Sowell:
“Darwinian adaptation to environment applies not only to nature but also to society. Just as you don’t find eagles living in the ocean or fish living on mountain tops, so you don’t find leftists concentrated where their ideas have to stand the test of performance.“
You are on target here! Students shouldn't get to control schools in this way and worse yet, the colleges and Universities should be called to heel for becoming such a fertile ground for placating the whiny brats.
Harry Houdini wrote a pamphlet, 'Houdini Exposes the Tricks', and said, “the more highly educated a man is along certain lines, the easier he is to dupe":
Which I believe is desirous of following the template found in the Chinese book to transform us into their vision of an authoritarian global world. A Devious scheme:
Why did some ancient and very advanced civilizations suddenly vanish from the face of the earth, leaving behind only their great structures and no trace of the inhabitants. I believe we are on the verge of discovering where they went :)
The five emotions are joy, anger, fear, sadness, and disgust. The last one, disgust, when turned inwards, is shame. Every single one has a useful, and a destructive, capacity. Anger indicates that we need to alter something. Fear indicates that we are confronting an unknown. Sadness tells us we must grieve. And disgust/shame tells us what to avoid/not repeat. Without an internal impetus to improve, we end up in a negative ratchet of self-destruction. With too much self-abnegation, same issue. The trick with shame is to acknowledge it and allow it without letting it drive the bus, just as with the other emotions.
I hadn’t heard that term! I’ve worked my way into all this stuff through a constellation of tools, many of which I brought on for myself and then others I’ve learned in real time for my professional practice. Thank you-I’ll look into that.
Very true, but ... Big Brother likes buttercups. Helpless, fragile adult-toddlers happily exchange freedom for promises of security. They want Big Brother to watch them, so they can feel secure. Shame makes them feel vulnerable and afraid. Big Brother makes them feel warm and safe. And when powerful pathocrats have an incentive to incentivize buttercuppery, we will get more buttercups.
Plus, for many, there is no downside to Big Gov being your Daddy.
According to Meyers Briggs personality theory, about half of the people out there don't really like making decisions. So Big Gov as Daddy is something that many actually like, and some really REALLY like.
It used to be called tough love. It's sorely lacking as a cultural norm today. We're being subsumed by permissiveness and submissiveness. Good times, soft men, hard times...
I dream to one day live in a world where EVERYONE calls EVERYONE out on their BULLSHIT. I tell my friends and family to do this to me. Call me out! Please! Just look me in the eyes and tell me the truth, you won't hurt my feelings. We're all supposed to be adults here.
When I was about 30 yrs old, my sis-in-law saw me in my swim trunks and jokingly asked me "if I needed all that", referring to my copious love handles. It hit hard, but motivated me to lose the fat, start lifting weights, and keep fit for the last 25+ years. I owe her big time!
Congratulations and good on you for improving yourself! They key part of what your sis-in-law said was that it was a joke, as you put it. She is saying something thats honestly uncomfortable for both parties, but at the end of the day she was still going to love you like family. She was just saying something out loud that most people just keep inside their head.
Nowadays she would be electronically burned at the stake and likely lose her job for a comment like that. The insanity is maddening. Congratulations to you on your clear thinking and serious self-assessment; if only your thinking was that of every college professor and schoolteacher in the world.
There is no contradiction in helping each other improve and accepting each other as we are.
I fertilise my apple-trees to improve the crop and their health, yet they remain apple-trees all the same.
The woke (for want of a better term not violating decorum) rule by creating false, artificial dichotomies where none exist - to their way of thinking the world works like this:
IF: [A] = [Good]; THEN: [Not A] = [Bad].
That is normal for humans under age 2 or so, but not after age 4.
All societies that exist for more than a few months are organic, created from the inside out, not imposed from the outside in. A sense of shame is an integral part of the survival mechanisms that societies have developed over tens of thousands of years. They keep the "woke" minorities, the disoriented individuals, the mentally ill from disrupting the lives of the members of the society, destroying peace and order. In the US, we have devolved into a society where if one person screams and cries about damn near anything, that which the buttercup decries will be banned, even if everyone else likes/needs/wants that thing. A lot of the growing tyranny started with crocodile tears for the allergic, peanuts and perfume are good examples. The "environmental" movement took advantage, too, of peoples concern for others and the world we live in to shamelessly destroy individual rights to life, liberty, and happiness. The left is totally shameless when it comes to taking these rights, by lying, obfuscation, deception or whatever sociopathic tactic they feel will work. Fight back. Be proud of who and what we were and are and will become. What if they gave a protest and no one came? Meowdios, MFs.
Agree 100%. It’s no fun, but anthropologists have described shame as one of the fundamental elements helping development of human civilization. Now instead we encourage crybullies “to be proudly performative of that which should be shameful” as you say. (And on the flip side, as Jordan Peterson observed, “Pride used to be considered a Sin.” ) Now there is no need for government officials to fear or be ashamed because the media provides insta-indulgences.
I’m Christian but not Catholic so while I don’t actually believe in the doctrine of “mortal sins” I think the fact that we have an entire month dedicated to one of the seven deadly sins (ignoring what it is we are supposed to be having “pride” in) nicely sums up American culture and the modern American mindset. Mostly at this point I’m left trying to figure out just how bad the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorra were if they were worse than our current state of affairs.
Yep! Imagine having “gluttony” month or “sloth” month! Yes, I know, those and greed and all the sins are very much present in our daily lives, but to go all out and actually formally celebrate one of those for a month? Madness!
CS Lewis was no Catholic either, yet he convincingly argued that pride is the greatest sin, see here:
“ Unchastity, anger, greed, drunkenness, and all that, are mere fleabites in comparison: it was through Pride that the devil became the devil: Pride leads to every other vice: it is the complete anti-God state of mind.”
I have a tendency to agree with Lewis, I know in my own life when I really look at where my sin comes from it is invariably pride of one form or another.
Looking at America’s obesity crisis I suspect we are celebrating gluttony month every month.
You are so right!! It is astonishing that people want to reveal and celebrate their sins publicly and be proud about their destructive behaviors. It's a sign of impending collapse and disaster of civilization.
Dr. Tara, Billy Graham's wife once said, many years ago; that if God doesn't bring judgment on America soon, he's going to owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology ...
Spot on. There is a modern western culture, propagated by the parents and other supposed adults, that rewards ill behavior. The whining and crying of the little bullies is nakedly performative and indulged by people who should know better. It does these kids no good. We now have 2 full generations of such creatures and many adult-aged children who we have set loose upon the real world. As times get hard -- and they will -- there shall be a figurative culling of these folks and these characteristics. It shan't be pretty.
I think what’s slightly different is now you don’t have to be competent to get rewarded in many fields. Just complaining and being difficult will get you rewarded because competence is male privileged white supremacy.
Ten years ago, I attended a public forum (in-person) at our local university campus in which it was discussed whether or not the campus should have dedicated "safe spaces." One student who was in favor of the idea said that people who didn't think they were necessary could just ignore them and not use them. She gave the example of herself not using the recreation center because she didn't work out. I countered with the idea that it was different because, although she was paying for something on campus that she didn't make use of, it wasn't something that she had a moral objection to. (EDIT: If I recall correctly, the words I used were "philosophical opposition".)
She was 100% unable to comprehend my position. She could not understand my objection to the campus devoting resources to safe spaces because I viewed them as antithetical to the idea of an institution of learning.
And also excludes others who might make the safe space, unsafe. It’s called Apartheid - and that’s not pretty, because it enables an arbitrary process of decision making about who must be excluded and in what grounds, because they might make my space unsafe. So if you are a horrible person who believes there are only two sexes, or if you are White and therefore innately and unconsciously micro-aggressive, you can be excluded. Not using a recreational facility is a choice, being able to use a safe space requires permission. The ultimate is the whole campus us declared a safe space except for an area where ‘unsafe’ people may use. And that has happened.
That is correct. The campus already had an "international center" which we were assured everyone was welcome to use, but which effectively excluded certain skin colors. It also already had an entire floor of the student center devoted to "gender" something or other, but I'm pretty sure I could not have gone in there to have a reasoned conversation about biological sex.
Isn’t that why outside benches were placed around campus? I didn’t need a room that specifically said “safe space”. If I wanted a quite room I went to the library.
But on those benches or in the library, you might have overheard a conversation that triggered a trauma response, or - even worse - a person might have come up to you and attempted to engage you in a conversation over which you did not have complete control.
As much as I like Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter was probably one of the most destructive books ever written because of this exact point. The shame single mothers felt in those days was in many ways terribly unfair… but there were resultantly zero children having the trauma of being raised without a dad. Now that scarlet letter shame is long gone, and so is the prospect of a happy, well-adjusted childhood for ever increasing millions of innocent little boys and girls…
Exactly! *that* was hawthorne’s point and why I still like him so much… it’s not really his fault that decades of liberal scholarship/teaching turned his point around into “don’t shame anyone”
Parents were the first problem. Narcissistic Uber liberals (you know they are all Karens) helicopter parenting and giving zero consequences, chores, or punishments. It’s been happening in an ever widening circle since my kids were young (mine are 27-36 in ages now).
When my “middlest” as she calls herself was 15, I told her that if she lied to me again I’d take her off the basketball team. She did and I did. And not only did I take her off the team I told the coaches WHY I took her off the team. (Matter of factly, and said she’d try out again the next year, not as gossip!) Most of the other parents couldn’t believe I’d followed through with it and said, “I wouldn’t have been able to do it.” I said, “So she’s in trouble for LYING, I told her upfront what the consequence would be, and she made a choice. I would have been LYING if I didn’t follow through!” That seemed pretty obvious to me but they mostly looked at me blankly. Anyway, she is , at 31, the most honest (and kind) person I know.
My job as a mama was to raise productive members of society who could lead their own fulfilling lives, NOT to be their friend. Sure, we’re friends now, but at 10 or 13 or 16? Um no.
Well done.
Healthy shame is the only way for a person to understand that the only thing worse than shame is being a coward.
It empowers a person to recognize that being shamed, for example with covid, is a joyless victory over cowards, but at the same time gives them the wherewithal to understand character is revealed in the crucible.
And that not compromising character is a barrier to the seduction of cowardness.
For eons, shame has been used to teach people not to engage in destructive behavior towards others or themselves.
As an extremely effective societal limiting device it it is an important aspect of civilization.
My first run in with shame was back in the late Pleistocene when I was began going through puberty. I had a crush on a girl, and instead of having the stones to ask her out, I lied to my friends about kissing her.
About a week later she and several of her friends confronted me, in front of my friends, about my bullshit and deservedly skewered me.
You can be sure that I never did that again, and an important larger lesson was also learned. Permanently.
We need more of this today, because as gato says, we bid farewell to Goldilocks and very much need to reacquainted.
Lmao. Brutal.
I had to take several lessons before it got through my thick skull.
My first lesson, and its still as real as my last meal, was being 4 and wanting this little horse figurine at k-mart and not wanting to deal with haggling with my mom. So while she went to another aisle I put it in my pocket. My mother knew this and waited until we were being checked out and said in front of everyone "Ryan what is in your pocket?" I froze in complete shame. And then for effect, she took it out of my pocket, put it in my hand and told me to follow the "manager" back to the aisle to put the horse back in the right spot on the shelf.
The walk of shame. Agony.
I "cheated" a few times after experiencing this, but it was half-hearted and I learned my lesson
Dang, right back at you. That is a rough patch for a four-year-old...
I have little doubt that our mothers would get along famously. As would their sons...
Indeed mate!
Powerful story.
I'd replace Goldilocks with God.
It's so important that we don't compromise our character.
And not be being a friend to our preteens and teens is exactly how it should be.
I think this one is a biggie.
You remind me of my mom, rest her soul. She set high standards for herself and her 4 kids.
Nicely done with your daughter. Though these days she probably would have made a whiny TikTok video...
Well done. I agree 100%.
I commend you. You did the right thing. Unfortunately, my husband and I disagreed on how to raise kids, he undermined me every chance he got. No, you don’t have to do the chores your mother assigned, yes, you can play baseball even though you didn’t go to school, etc. I stayed married to him as I had 5 kids and leaving would have put me at work and having someone else raise my kids. Half of my kids are a mess. Sad.
Nice, everytime my 16year old complains "you're being mean", or "thats not fair" I respond with "my job is to love you and make you a productive member of society, not be your friend and let you do whatever you want"
Good job! An x-friend used to tell me, when her daughter was young, how kind, loving, and caring she was. Yet, everything else she ever told me about her, said the exact opposite. Now, that the daughter is 43, she whines and cries about how horribe she is, and that she's a narcissist. IMO, she always was, albeit a little funnier and friendlier when young, but exactly as she was raised.
Good mom.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🎩🎩🎩🎩🎩🎩 Bravo Jennings!!!! And THAT folks, is actual parenting. Guiding a learning human to be the best human they can be, so that we have a society full of fully formed and actually functioning, individuals. We seem to be killing society with "kindness", and I shudder to think of the future, because traditionally when you create a societal victim mentality (read, equitable or "fair"), it usually gets taken advantage of by others that are tough, resilient and less "kind", because they are prepared mentally and emotionally to make hard decisions in moments of crisis. Each individual needs to not be looking outwards for help, but looking inwards to find the strength, resilient, and power within, so they DONT get abused. That is what a parents job is to teach their children. A thankless task, but so valuable.🤗 well done Jennings, you Aced the exam😉
Dr Laura talks about this all the time! She’d be happy to hear your story as am I! Thank you!
When my son was in middle school, his grades were not where they should have been since he had been goofing off. I told him way before that that was not acceptable and he could not go on the school's voluntary ski trip if he didn't bring them up. Well, he didn't and I didn't let him go on the trip. The head of school actually fussed at me about it and I held my ground. Not her kid. He did a few other dumb things along the way but has turned out quite responsible and focused at almost 34.
Parents, don't cave! :)
That's a good one! We homeschooled and when the kids were high school age they just got their "this is what's expected in order for you to be done with the year" list and they had to do it themselves. (Obviously they could get help, but navigating the schedule was up to them.) Both the girls had one summer break that was only 2 weeks long because they procrastinated. The youngest always finished early, one year in March, because he said, "I saw them not get a summer break and I wasn't going to do that!" haha smart kid. And the girls only did it once each, so they learned, too!
Truth Bomb Mom would applaud your integrity!
>> "My job ... was to raise productive members of society ... "
Why do people think this is a GOOD thing?
Encouraging offspring to be well-behaved battery-livestock for the tax farm seems like the diametric opposite of the best thing for the offspring.
A better objective might be to raise GOOD PEOPLE, or HAPPY PEOPLE, or HONEST PEOPLE. There's absolutely no evidence that being good, happy or honest results in "productivity" for the tax-farmers - and a reasonable aount of evidence that the opposite is true.
I have no dog in this fight: I loathe children, and have done since I was a child myself. They're stupid and weak and parasitic, and the VAST majority of them grow up to be imbeciles (my definition of 'imbecile' is somewhat nuanced: "less than 2sd above the cognitive median").
I wouldn't have an offspring as a gift, and I'm glad that there will be fewer of them 'going forward' - one of the few small upsides to the recent Pfizer nonsense.
Smart women are on the same page as me: they don't see it as their duty to be brood sows for the Tax Machine; they would rather go skiing.
A very large proportion of breeders can't adequately train a domestic dog - a process that can be successfully completed in two weeks.
And of course let's not forget that the Modern Mother is the most jab-happy numbskull this side of Rochelle Walenskyi, and the most craven follower of "authority figures" (like Fauci), and the entire market for "dream catchers", crystals and "The Secret".
Obviously MY mother is different: the proof is in the jabbing.
None of us 5 were jabbed with anything as infants (except a pin-prick for a blood test). We were all born prior to the "SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" childhood jab schedule, which is now approaching 60 MANDATORY jabs per infant - compliance with which is absolutely shameful.
Eeeew
"My job as a mama was to raise productive members of society who could lead their own fulfilling lives" And there it is in a nutshell. SImple. Not easy, but simple.
I also think that was fairl parenting though don’t think your action was “shaming”. She would feel guilty, she would feel punished, but she wouldn’t feel unloved. Shamers are more typically an eruption of hate.
Also - I think the term “Karen’s” is a progressive inspired label for white middle aged women they dislike.
This essay on "shame" is somewhat similar to discussions I've had on "tolerance."
While too little shame is bad for a society and individuals, too much tolerance has the same sort of effect: it's bad. That's how we get to being "tolerant" of pedophiles and murderers and so on.
Walter Berns was a preeminent legal philosopher, professor of law and scholar. He explored the increasing application of The Science (TM) to the law beginning in the mid-1950's and the threat it posed to free people. The Science (TM) being behavioral science, "nudge" as Cass Sunstein wrote about. Mind-farkery to make free people behave like authorities want them to. Manipulation, coercion, deception, the science of brainwashing. I.e. The Science (TM) of the pandemic, masks, social distancing, etc, including shaming. He warned us in many papers of the dangers in just "following The Science."
He wasn't opposed to the concept of shame in general. The shame as he understood it came from breaking with God, his word as given to us through the Ten Commandments and scripture. Saying that in the absence of God and the role of shame in society people would need to be ruled. Authoritarianism. Repressive.
So basically saying we could either follow God's laws or man's laws. And offering that God's laws are much more liberated and provide us the freedom that God intends for us than man's laws ever could or would. That God is a much more benevolent ruler than man could or would ever be. His 2015 obituary:
Walter Berns, political scientist and philosopher, dies at 95
Washington Post, 2015
https://archive.ph/5lgZM#selection-395.0-1371.206
"Dr. Berns’s career, “reflects the classical view that democracy depends on the character of the citizens, so their opinions and beliefs, their personal habits and degree of self-discipline — in a word, their virtues — will matter to the prospects of democratic government.”
Dr. Berns argued against unbounded individual rights and for restrictions on pornography, which he believed eroded self-restraint.
“Those who are without shame,” he remarked, “will be unruly and unrulable; having lost the ability to restrain themselves by obeying the rules they collectively give themselves, they will have to be ruled by others.”"
Side Note: Cass Sunstein is a pivotal player in the transformation to a Behavioral Science-based law and society. He served in key roles under Obama reorienting the federal government to Nudge theory, has many proteges in powerful places. Including his wife, Samantha Power at USAID overthrowing governments she doesn't like, Jessica Hertz leading censorship and propaganda efforts in Big Tech again after a few years standing up the Biden administration, Maya Shankar (who's also connected to Chelsea Clinton and Frank Luntz) leading Big Tech global censorship at Google, at the Council on Foreign Relations, developing the mind-farkery plans at the UN/WEF to make us happy owning nothing and eating bugs. And many others. Sunstein also helped set up the UK's mirror programs with his coauthor Richard Thaler, the SAGE MINDSPACE nudge program. Today Sunstein teaches at Harvard Law School how to dismantle the Constitution using linguistic tricks to apply behaviorism inside the plain language of our rights, redefining words like freedom to mean slavery. Orwellianism.
Great post. The people wont fall for this crap anymore. Here's to dismantling their Mind-Farkery! 👊🔥
And when we get into issues of God's law which informs Natural Law as to morality to a larger degree than Man's law, i.e. Positive Law which is law because man says so, if even it is immoral, amoral, we begin to understand that there was a lot more meaning behind this clip from Clarence Thomas' confirmation hearing when Sen. Joe Biden hectored Thomas over his previous writings and comments about the role of natural law in American jurisprudence history...that changed in the middle of the 20th century to positive law theory around the same time that Berns was cautioning about applying a scientific approach to law, a behavioral science approach to law. It is all interconnected:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4887077/user-clip-biden-natural-law
“pedophiles and murderers”
Don’t you mean MAP’s (minor attracted persons) and DAC’s (death affirming caregivers) ??
You forgot DAS's; Death Affirming Strangers.
Spot on
Bada Bing! 😎
Also related....Courtesy vs Respect. Everyone says you have to respect my choices. No. I will treat everyone with Courtesy by default, but Respect is earned.
It's def smth in the 'stack air, congealing around this shame thing 😊
🗨 Come Back, Shame. You've been gone so very long. --> markbisone.substack.com/p/come-back-shame 👌
It is shameful for students to refuse to hear alternative views on controversial topics unless they are afforded mental health services after hearing those views. It is more shameful for universities to indulge them. If the schools told the students to toughen up an that they do not need and will not receive any mental health services for hearing an argument that they in all likelihood fear is right, they will stop asking for it.
For universities, read "expensive day care".
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35305676-not-a-daycare
Thomas Hobbes, 1588-1679
“ the universities have been to the nation as the wooden horse was to the Trojans.”
Our professorate has much to answer for.
*Gramsci has entered the chat*
It's not just the universities...
Cloward and Piven, too
My sister is 50. Vermont “educated”. We can’t discuss anything controversial because it “would be too emotional”. She’s a science teacher who STILL believes every Covid lie. We may be doomed.
My sister is 37 and is the same way. She doesn’t want to talk about anything too deep because she feels like it damages our relationship. Mostly because I woke up five years ago and she’s still fast asleep. But the fact that she can’t handle a conversation is very concerning to me.
Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble. Why have a conversation when you already know everything about everything?
I could handle that. But the seething condescension kills me.
I know a few that quite possibly have snopes on speed dial. I think of them as the “snopes” brigade. It’s not a conversation, … it’s talk to google! 🤨
Yes. Plus the sneer and the look that everything smells to them is actually quite amusing. Whenever anyone is condescending to me and sticking his/her nose in the air I just tell them that what they are smelling is their own sulphur. They usually get quite upset at that remark. Go figure.
There are many, many people who can't handle a conversation any more deep than the weather, and what's on tv. My ex is that way. A conversation to him is an interrogation. He will not answer questions and told me that his new girlfriend knows better than to ask him questions beyond the banal and shallow. That is just narcissism. Narcs hide their souls and don't want their worlds rattled by deep thoughts.
I found out the hard way that teachers are among the worst believers. Several otherwise great people seem to believe every lie possible about the scamdemic.
Many teachers are miseducated in indoctrination centers known as schools of education.
yep. Just like many doctors are totally indoctrinated in medical schools subsidized by bigharma. Very little people are able to think for themselves anymore, or discern between what could be true and what most certainly is a lie.
At this point, I think that she knows the truth deep down. But confronting it would be far too painful. So instead, head in the sand.
"She’s a science teacher who STILL believes every Covid lie."
This is so painful to know.
Being a Science Teacher means you're a litle bit Sciencey and a little bit Teachery.
Teachers tend liberal, many full-on DIE/ESG/LGBTOMG, so too often it's Teachery >> Sciencyey. Maybe even >>>.
🕸💩 - 💉💉=🐑
*5 pics * 1-kilowords/pic*
That's, like, 5,000 words. I'd say that says it all.
Inigo Montoya: lemme summup
*turns back, covers hand with 6 fingers in cape*
And under her tutelage…now we begin to understand.
Yes. She is too despondent to discuss any Covid related matters with me, with students committing suicide and aggressive cancers exploding all around her. Ummm, that’s what I’ve been trying to warn you about sis. But since her opinions are “based on science”, we have nothing to discuss. She turned to Sarah Silverman after the 2016 election. I suggested Thomas Sowell and she looked at me like I had 3 heads…..
I’ve seen the look! I’m now growing a third head to validate it. No, what’s been validated is victimhood. Absent the boldness to shame, we create victims and it’s nothing but lying. Safe spaces and equity are lies created by educational institutions. A few years back they got rid of insane asylums (I remember the names) and now they’re called “universities” and “public schools.” Now, choice words from Sowell:
“Darwinian adaptation to environment applies not only to nature but also to society. Just as you don’t find eagles living in the ocean or fish living on mountain tops, so you don’t find leftists concentrated where their ideas have to stand the test of performance.“
: (
You are on target here! Students shouldn't get to control schools in this way and worse yet, the colleges and Universities should be called to heel for becoming such a fertile ground for placating the whiny brats.
Harry Houdini wrote a pamphlet, 'Houdini Exposes the Tricks', and said, “the more highly educated a man is along certain lines, the easier he is to dupe":
https://www.newspapers.com/article/4691118/houdini-margery-fake-brooklyn-daily/
And this section of a Marxist book on Disease Politics published in China in 2013 applies:
13.2 “The Higher the Education Level One Has, the Sillier He Is”
Rural Health Care Delivery
Modern China from the Perspective of Disease Politics
Springer, 2013
('GET' .pdf download)
A book I found in a link contained in a Foreign Affairs (leading globalist publication) article I read in 2020:
Past Pandemics Exposed China’s Weaknesses
The Current One Highlights Its Strengths
Foreign Affairs, March 27, 2020
https://web.archive.org/web/20200328050913/https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2020-03-27/past-pandemics-exposed-chinas-weaknesses
Which I believe is desirous of following the template found in the Chinese book to transform us into their vision of an authoritarian global world. A Devious scheme:
https://freedomfox.substack.com/p/the-devious-use-of-infectious-disease
Why did some ancient and very advanced civilizations suddenly vanish from the face of the earth, leaving behind only their great structures and no trace of the inhabitants. I believe we are on the verge of discovering where they went :)
The five emotions are joy, anger, fear, sadness, and disgust. The last one, disgust, when turned inwards, is shame. Every single one has a useful, and a destructive, capacity. Anger indicates that we need to alter something. Fear indicates that we are confronting an unknown. Sadness tells us we must grieve. And disgust/shame tells us what to avoid/not repeat. Without an internal impetus to improve, we end up in a negative ratchet of self-destruction. With too much self-abnegation, same issue. The trick with shame is to acknowledge it and allow it without letting it drive the bus, just as with the other emotions.
Thanks for my DBT refresher. And I mean this sincerely.
What’s DBT?
Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. It was quite effective for me and a few others I know who have tried it. Skills based.
I hadn’t heard that term! I’ve worked my way into all this stuff through a constellation of tools, many of which I brought on for myself and then others I’ve learned in real time for my professional practice. Thank you-I’ll look into that.
Not only must you acknowledge shame, but you must repent from the sin causing it. That is the only way to move forward in life.
Love this!
Very true, but ... Big Brother likes buttercups. Helpless, fragile adult-toddlers happily exchange freedom for promises of security. They want Big Brother to watch them, so they can feel secure. Shame makes them feel vulnerable and afraid. Big Brother makes them feel warm and safe. And when powerful pathocrats have an incentive to incentivize buttercuppery, we will get more buttercups.
Plus, for many, there is no downside to Big Gov being your Daddy.
According to Meyers Briggs personality theory, about half of the people out there don't really like making decisions. So Big Gov as Daddy is something that many actually like, and some really REALLY like.
It used to be called tough love. It's sorely lacking as a cultural norm today. We're being subsumed by permissiveness and submissiveness. Good times, soft men, hard times...
"It used to be called tough love."
Not the least bit ironically posted by _SpankinRedAss_.
But I am also concerned that we are now in the Era of Weakass Men.
https://ifunny.co/picture/hard-times-create-strong-men-strong-men-create-good-times-xhnjdWYG8
Lmao!!
“Were they ashamed when they committed abomination? No, they were not at all ashamed; they did not know how to blush.” Jeremiah 6:15a
I dream to one day live in a world where EVERYONE calls EVERYONE out on their BULLSHIT. I tell my friends and family to do this to me. Call me out! Please! Just look me in the eyes and tell me the truth, you won't hurt my feelings. We're all supposed to be adults here.
When I was about 30 yrs old, my sis-in-law saw me in my swim trunks and jokingly asked me "if I needed all that", referring to my copious love handles. It hit hard, but motivated me to lose the fat, start lifting weights, and keep fit for the last 25+ years. I owe her big time!
Congratulations and good on you for improving yourself! They key part of what your sis-in-law said was that it was a joke, as you put it. She is saying something thats honestly uncomfortable for both parties, but at the end of the day she was still going to love you like family. She was just saying something out loud that most people just keep inside their head.
Nowadays she would be electronically burned at the stake and likely lose her job for a comment like that. The insanity is maddening. Congratulations to you on your clear thinking and serious self-assessment; if only your thinking was that of every college professor and schoolteacher in the world.
No, in-group can shame other humans all they want for whatever they want, as long as the victim is seen as a member of the out-group.
Agreed.
"If no one tells me when I do something wrong, how am I ever to improve?"
See the thing is nobody wants to improve. Everybody needs to accept everybody else JUST THE WAY THEY ARE. That is the mantra of the 21st century.
There is no contradiction in helping each other improve and accepting each other as we are.
I fertilise my apple-trees to improve the crop and their health, yet they remain apple-trees all the same.
The woke (for want of a better term not violating decorum) rule by creating false, artificial dichotomies where none exist - to their way of thinking the world works like this:
IF: [A] = [Good]; THEN: [Not A] = [Bad].
That is normal for humans under age 2 or so, but not after age 4.
I told my Son the same recently. I am certainly learning a lot. I asked for it. : )
Funnily enough I actually think I inherited this belief from my mom. She never sugar coated ANYTHING lol. I am grateful for it though.
We grew up with: pull the bandage off quickly; it hurts less.
All societies that exist for more than a few months are organic, created from the inside out, not imposed from the outside in. A sense of shame is an integral part of the survival mechanisms that societies have developed over tens of thousands of years. They keep the "woke" minorities, the disoriented individuals, the mentally ill from disrupting the lives of the members of the society, destroying peace and order. In the US, we have devolved into a society where if one person screams and cries about damn near anything, that which the buttercup decries will be banned, even if everyone else likes/needs/wants that thing. A lot of the growing tyranny started with crocodile tears for the allergic, peanuts and perfume are good examples. The "environmental" movement took advantage, too, of peoples concern for others and the world we live in to shamelessly destroy individual rights to life, liberty, and happiness. The left is totally shameless when it comes to taking these rights, by lying, obfuscation, deception or whatever sociopathic tactic they feel will work. Fight back. Be proud of who and what we were and are and will become. What if they gave a protest and no one came? Meowdios, MFs.
"All societies that exist for more than a few months are organic, created from the inside out, not imposed from the outside in."
This is good. Covers a lot of ground from Why Socialism Doesn't Scale Up to Why Public Sector Employees Shouldn't Be Able To Unionize. And then some.
"A lot of the growing tyranny started with crocodile tears for the allergic, peanuts and perfume are good examples."
The Fallacy of the Least Common Denominator.
"Meowdios"
*snicker*
How have I not come across you before? Smart AND an adorable cat pic! Subbed!
I recall a phrase from when I started work at the best place I've worked.
It was "sharpen the fuck up", said loudly on occasion when an error was made.
And you did.
High standards are not a bad thing.
Agree 100%. It’s no fun, but anthropologists have described shame as one of the fundamental elements helping development of human civilization. Now instead we encourage crybullies “to be proudly performative of that which should be shameful” as you say. (And on the flip side, as Jordan Peterson observed, “Pride used to be considered a Sin.” ) Now there is no need for government officials to fear or be ashamed because the media provides insta-indulgences.
Just wait til pride month…
I’m Christian but not Catholic so while I don’t actually believe in the doctrine of “mortal sins” I think the fact that we have an entire month dedicated to one of the seven deadly sins (ignoring what it is we are supposed to be having “pride” in) nicely sums up American culture and the modern American mindset. Mostly at this point I’m left trying to figure out just how bad the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorra were if they were worse than our current state of affairs.
Yep! Imagine having “gluttony” month or “sloth” month! Yes, I know, those and greed and all the sins are very much present in our daily lives, but to go all out and actually formally celebrate one of those for a month? Madness!
CS Lewis was no Catholic either, yet he convincingly argued that pride is the greatest sin, see here:
https://www.homewoodcommunitychurch.org/wp-content/uploads/The-Great-Sin.pdf
“ Unchastity, anger, greed, drunkenness, and all that, are mere fleabites in comparison: it was through Pride that the devil became the devil: Pride leads to every other vice: it is the complete anti-God state of mind.”
I have a tendency to agree with Lewis, I know in my own life when I really look at where my sin comes from it is invariably pride of one form or another.
Looking at America’s obesity crisis I suspect we are celebrating gluttony month every month.
Every day of every month
You are so right!! It is astonishing that people want to reveal and celebrate their sins publicly and be proud about their destructive behaviors. It's a sign of impending collapse and disaster of civilization.
That they are enabled—no, ENCOURAGED—by educational institutions at every level is abominable.
Dr. Tara, Billy Graham's wife once said, many years ago; that if God doesn't bring judgment on America soon, he's going to owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology ...
That's true, but God has already said He will never destroy us again since the New Covenant. Still we have all the free will to destroy ourselves.
Spot on. There is a modern western culture, propagated by the parents and other supposed adults, that rewards ill behavior. The whining and crying of the little bullies is nakedly performative and indulged by people who should know better. It does these kids no good. We now have 2 full generations of such creatures and many adult-aged children who we have set loose upon the real world. As times get hard -- and they will -- there shall be a figurative culling of these folks and these characteristics. It shan't be pretty.
The whining has been going on for decades in the workplace.
Remember the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease?"
Those who complain and are difficult-- yet competent-- get rewarded.
Those who do not complain and just quietly do their job-- get overlooked.
This isn't a new phenomenon.
I think what’s slightly different is now you don’t have to be competent to get rewarded in many fields. Just complaining and being difficult will get you rewarded because competence is male privileged white supremacy.
Yes, I couldn’t cone up with the words.
I agree with your assessment. I learned to be a squeaky wheel (not excessively so). I think it has increased though.
Ten years ago, I attended a public forum (in-person) at our local university campus in which it was discussed whether or not the campus should have dedicated "safe spaces." One student who was in favor of the idea said that people who didn't think they were necessary could just ignore them and not use them. She gave the example of herself not using the recreation center because she didn't work out. I countered with the idea that it was different because, although she was paying for something on campus that she didn't make use of, it wasn't something that she had a moral objection to. (EDIT: If I recall correctly, the words I used were "philosophical opposition".)
She was 100% unable to comprehend my position. She could not understand my objection to the campus devoting resources to safe spaces because I viewed them as antithetical to the idea of an institution of learning.
And also excludes others who might make the safe space, unsafe. It’s called Apartheid - and that’s not pretty, because it enables an arbitrary process of decision making about who must be excluded and in what grounds, because they might make my space unsafe. So if you are a horrible person who believes there are only two sexes, or if you are White and therefore innately and unconsciously micro-aggressive, you can be excluded. Not using a recreational facility is a choice, being able to use a safe space requires permission. The ultimate is the whole campus us declared a safe space except for an area where ‘unsafe’ people may use. And that has happened.
That is correct. The campus already had an "international center" which we were assured everyone was welcome to use, but which effectively excluded certain skin colors. It also already had an entire floor of the student center devoted to "gender" something or other, but I'm pretty sure I could not have gone in there to have a reasoned conversation about biological sex.
Isn’t that why outside benches were placed around campus? I didn’t need a room that specifically said “safe space”. If I wanted a quite room I went to the library.
But on those benches or in the library, you might have overheard a conversation that triggered a trauma response, or - even worse - a person might have come up to you and attempted to engage you in a conversation over which you did not have complete control.
"....you did not have complete control."
Blam! Nailed it, bagged it, tagged it.
In 2023 Newspeak "free speech" is defined as traumatic verbal violence.
Bring it on. I accept that I am not perfect and never will be, however I long to improve even in my elder years.
Who said you can't teach an old cat new tricks.😁
Is Dr. Linda also a cat?
Meow.😁
Chirrup!
Trilling! 🐱
Both cat and dog. O wait, that must be a problem like being a man-woman
Not to mention a source of great internal confusion.
I find this both intriguing and frightening.
Ah, life
As much as I like Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter was probably one of the most destructive books ever written because of this exact point. The shame single mothers felt in those days was in many ways terribly unfair… but there were resultantly zero children having the trauma of being raised without a dad. Now that scarlet letter shame is long gone, and so is the prospect of a happy, well-adjusted childhood for ever increasing millions of innocent little boys and girls…
But, did the fathers also wear a scarlett letter?
Exactly! *that* was hawthorne’s point and why I still like him so much… it’s not really his fault that decades of liberal scholarship/teaching turned his point around into “don’t shame anyone”
yes, it was called the French Pox ;)
I'd be happy with a return to sanity with regards to single mothers in our laws! Why are we encouraging breaking up families?
You have a point here